Another Surgery for Pedey

DanoooME

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From this note on MLBTR:

Red Sox second bagger Dustin Pedroia has undergone another procedure on his balky left knee, according to a team announcement. A “joint preservation procedure” was performed yesterday.
"Joint preservation" doesn't sound like something that entails returning to the field.

Quite a sad situation for him (and us).
 

mauidano

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Very vague article with minimal information. No details on procedure or prognosis.
 

brandonchristensen

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I keep forgetting about him, which is sad. Going into this year, he was supposed to be a contributor. We got lucky that Chavis and Holt have filled in admirably.
 

maufman

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This is consistent with what @DaveRoberts'Shoes told us about 18 months ago — if the microfracture surgery was unsuccessful, the next step was a knee replacement, which would be career-ending.

Sad news, but we’ve known this was coming for a couple months now.
 

donutogre

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This is consistent with what @DaveRoberts'Shoes told us about 18 months ago — if the microfracture surgery was unsuccessful, the next step was a knee replacement, which would be career-ending.

Sad news, but we’ve known this was coming for a couple months now.
Yeah, I have to imagine he announces his retirement at spring training next year. Maybe he plays one more home game or something.
 

bsj

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I assume at this point he will announce his retirement after the season. So sad. Definitely in the top 5 favorite Sox I have ever been a fan of.

From a purely business standpoint, does filing retirement papers do a darn thing to change the way the salaries impact the luxury tax or payroll? Assuming no?
 

maufman

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Yeah, I have to imagine he announces his retirement at spring training next year. Maybe he plays one more home game or something.
If memory serves, Albert Belle just faded away and collected his checks, while the O’s collected insurance. I don’t believe he ever made a retirement announcement. There was probably a contractual or insurance reason that it was handled that way.

Point being, I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting on a formal retirement announcement from Pedroia.
 

phrenile

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Only a handful of players have ever retired rather than hanging around and cashing their guaranteed paychecks.

Gil Meche famously did so in 2011. Ryne Sandberg did so in 1994 before coming out of retirement in 1996. Mark McGwire sort of did so in 2002 (he had a two-year extension deal in place but retired rather than signing it).
 

joe dokes

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If home game 81 turns out to be meaningless (yeah, I know), he can lead off at DH, stand there like Eddie Gaedel, take a walk from the complicit opposing pitcher, then come out for a PR.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Only a handful of players have ever retired rather than hanging around and cashing their guaranteed paychecks.

Gil Meche famously did so in 2011. Ryne Sandberg did so in 1994 before coming out of retirement in 1996. Mark McGwire sort of did so in 2002 (he had a two-year extension deal in place but retired rather than signing it).
Closer to home, Ryan Dempster did it in 2014.

We've had this discussion a few times already. Pedroia would forgo the remainder of his contract if he retired and the Red Sox would no longer be on the hook for it from a luxury tax standpoint. That's very unlikely to happen. More likely is that he and the team will negotiate a buyout of his contract, like the Mets and David Wright did, which won't give the team much if any relief from a luxury tax standpoint but might change how they pay out the deal in real dollars. It would probably also involve giving him a position within the organization.

I would expect the main reason to do this instead of simply riding out the deal is that official retirement starts the clock on Hall of Fame eligibility and probably has implications for the MLBPA pension/retirement plan too. The team also gets the benefit of his spot on the roster being freed up. During the season it's not a big deal since he can be placed on the 60-day DL, but there is no 60-day DL in the off-season, so they'd have to carry him on the 40-man through the winter.
 

InstaFace

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This is consistent with what @DaveRoberts'Shoes told us about 18 months ago — if the microfracture surgery was unsuccessful, the next step was a knee replacement, which would be career-ending.

Sad news, but we’ve known this was coming for a couple months now.
Someone should tell that guy on Twitter that he was beaten to the punch by a SoSH user.
 

Hank Scorpio

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I would expect the main reason to do this instead of simply riding out the deal is that official retirement starts the clock on Hall of Fame eligibility and probably has implications for the MLBPA pension/retirement plan too. The team also gets the benefit of his spot on the roster being freed up. During the season it's not a big deal since he can be placed on the 60-day DL, but there is no 60-day DL in the off-season, so they'd have to carry him on the 40-man through the winter.
Nitpick, but Pedroia is not going to the Hall of Fame unless he buys a ticket like the rest of us.

From a common sense standpoint, I hope the next CBA has a Pedroia/Belle/Wright clause where players and teams can mutually agree to buyout a contract at full value and have it not count against the salary cap, if the player is no longer capable of playing baseball.

Helps the MLBPA a bit, doesn’t really hurt anyone. It only punishes teams for signing long-term deals.
 

Dernells Casket n Flagon

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I'd expect an ARod retirement. He announced retirement, but it formally happens after the Red Sox release him, which pays out his entire salary.
 

Pandarama

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From a common sense standpoint, I hope the next CBA has a Pedroia/Belle/Wright clause where players and teams can mutually agree to buyout a contract at full value and have it not count against the salary cap, if the player is no longer capable of playing baseball.

Helps the MLBPA a bit, doesn’t really hurt anyone. It only punishes teams for signing long-term deals.
I beg to differ. It would hurt poor teams (when you compare that hypothetical CBA to today’s agreement).

The Luxury Tax was created to help poor and middle class teams by punishing richer teams (think NYY) for creating upward pressure on free agent salaries. Now that our beloved Red Sox are amongst the rich, we see the other side of the coin.

If your principles change when you come into a big pile of money, you didn’t have principles. You had interests.
 

DeadlySplitter

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yeah, Pedey was always Hall of Very Good.

MLBPA needs to accept non-guaranteed parts of MLB contracts... not likely to ever be conceded though.
 

Sampo Gida

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I wish Pedey the best but dont expect anything from him down the road. Whether the surgery is comeback related or just quality of life improvement is not clear.
 

nvalvo

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yeah, Pedey was always Hall of Very Good.

MLBPA needs to accept non-guaranteed parts of MLB contracts... not likely to ever be conceded though.
Eh, if Pedroia hadn't gotten hurt, and had continued to pile up typical seasons over the last few years, a graceful decline would have left him around 60-65 WAR. With three rings, a ROY, an MVP, and four All Star appearances, that's a viable candidate for the Hall.

Of course, you could say that about a bunch of players: HoF talent, without HoF health.
 

santadevil

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I wish Pedey the best but dont expect anything from him down the road. Whether the surgery is comeback related or just quality of life improvement is not clear.
Reading posts in threads before actually posting in them is a cool option too


I'm sad about this news. He's been one of my favorite players ever, right up there with Pedro.
Always seemed like a good dude, who always gave a shit and played his ass off.

Enjoy the retirement life Pedey. I have no doubt he'll be successful at whatever he ends up doing.
I suspect front office job will be offered, but I bet he ends up coaching somewhere, college/university program and kicks some ass doing it
 

mauidano

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Look, Pedey can handle this any damn way he pleases. He's getting paid regardless. Not even a discussion. So he should decide what he wants to do as he gracefully exits.

He has fucking earned it. Big Papi earned it, Pedey has too.
 
Jul 5, 2018
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Closer to home, Ryan Dempster did it in 2014.

We've had this discussion a few times already. Pedroia would forgo the remainder of his contract if he retired and the Red Sox would no longer be on the hook for it from a luxury tax standpoint. That's very unlikely to happen. More likely is that he and the team will negotiate a buyout of his contract, like the Mets and David Wright did, which won't give the team much if any relief from a luxury tax standpoint but might change how they pay out the deal in real dollars. It would probably also involve giving him a position within the organization.

I would expect the main reason to do this instead of simply riding out the deal is that official retirement starts the clock on Hall of Fame eligibility and probably has implications for the MLBPA pension/retirement plan too. The team also gets the benefit of his spot on the roster being freed up. During the season it's not a big deal since he can be placed on the 60-day DL, but there is no 60-day DL in the off-season, so they'd have to carry him on the 40-man through the winter.
It will probably be treated same way that happened with Prince Fielder's contract when he was "declared medically disabled". That meant he would no longer be required to attempt to play and that he would continue to be paid under his contract. He will be paid through 2020 with portions coming from the Rangers and Tigers.

As for insurance, it's far from 100% coverage. Insurance companies aren't in the business to lose money so a new policy is written for the back-end of contracts:


Maybe everyone knew it but me, but Prince and his father both finished their careers with 319 homers.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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Eh, if Pedroia hadn't gotten hurt, and had continued to pile up typical seasons over the last few years, a graceful decline would have left him around 60-65 WAR. With three rings, a ROY, an MVP, and four All Star appearances, that's a viable candidate for the Hall.

Of course, you could say that about a bunch of players: HoF talent, without HoF health.
Yeah, exactly. He had 50.7 brWAR through his age 32 year. That put him at about the same pace as Utley (51.8), Whitaker (51.7), Randolph (51.6), Gehringer (51.5), Biggio (51.1), and Doerr (48.5)--three HoFers and three borderline cases. It put him well ahead of HoFers Billy Herman, Tony Lazzeri, Nellie Fox, Joe Gordon, and Johnny Evers (between 44.4 and 46.5).

He wasn't on a first-ballot pace, but he was on a pace that would have made him a better than even shot given all the additional qualifications nvalvo mentions.
 
Yeah, exactly. He had 50.7 brWAR through his age 32 year. That put him at about the same pace as Utley (51.8), Whitaker (51.7), Randolph (51.6), Gehringer (51.5), Biggio (51.1), and Doerr (48.5)--three HoFers and three borderline cases. It put him well ahead of HoFers Billy Herman, Tony Lazzeri, Nellie Fox, Joe Gordon, and Johnny Evers (between 44.4 and 46.5).
Don't forget that Hall of Fame middle infielder with a career WAR of 40.8 - the Mendoza line of the HoF, Phil Rizzuto.
 

Harry Hooper

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Alex Cora did his weekly radio session on WEEI today. They brought up Pedroia's surgery near the end of the segment, and I think Cora {in a possible HIPAA violation} said the extensive surgery was not to the extreme as the procedure that was recommended to Pedroia.
 

doc

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Cora can't violate HIPPA because he's not a healthcare provider\

That said godspeed Pedey, hopefully you can chase your kids around without pain
 

joe dokes

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The 3/31 he compiled in his 9 games during the last two seasons dropped him to a .299 lifetime hitter. That sucks.
I read a great piece somewhere (it might have been in "Baseball Lives" or an Angell or Kahn essay) about a devoted Tiger fan who tracked Al Kaline's career average in his final season. He went into the season at .2993. He got his 3000th hit in his last year, but his middling average left him at .297 for his career. Mickey Mantle's last dropped him under .300.
 
I read a great piece somewhere (it might have been in "Baseball Lives" or an Angell or Kahn essay) about a devoted Tiger fan who tracked Al Kaline's career average in his final season. He went into the season at .2993. He got his 3000th hit in his last year, but his middling average left him at .297 for his career. Mickey Mantle's last dropped him under .300.
And of course there are changes/corrections years down the road.
Ty Cobb will always have a .367 average on 4191 career hits to me.
 

Average Reds

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Cora can't violate HIPPA because he's not a healthcare provider\
The Red Sox are Pedroia’s employer and provide health coverage for him as plan sponsor or as the direct payer. As manager of the team, Cora is almost certainly a covered individual.

Not that anyone is going to care about it, but he almost certainly committed a HIPPA violation.
 

Al Zarilla

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Re Hall of Fame and Pedey, does Harold Baines’ inclusion establish a new floor? Baines did have really really good Hit/HR/RBI totals though: 2866/384/1628.
 

Plympton91

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Nitpick, but Pedroia is not going to the Hall of Fame unless he buys a ticket like the rest of us.

From a common sense standpoint, I hope the next CBA has a Pedroia/Belle/Wright clause where players and teams can mutually agree to buyout a contract at full value and have it not count against the salary cap, if the player is no longer capable of playing baseball.

Helps the MLBPA a bit, doesn’t really hurt anyone. It only punishes teams for signing long-term deals.
Harold Baines is now the bar for the HOF. Pedroia gets my vote by that standard.
 

doc

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The Red Sox are Pedroia’s employer and provide health coverage for him as plan sponsor or as the direct payer. As manager of the team, Cora is almost certainly a covered individual.

Not that anyone is going to care about it, but he almost certainly committed a HIPPA violation.

“ For example, HHS does not have the authority to regulate employers, life insurance companies, or public agencies that deliver social security or welfare benefits.”
 

Harry Hooper

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Harold Baines is now the bar for the HOF. Pedroia gets my vote by that standard.
I can't see John Henry pounding the table and making an obnoxious ass of himself with the veterans committee like Reinsdorf.
 

drleather2001

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Yeah, exactly. He had 50.7 brWAR through his age 32 year. That put him at about the same pace as Utley (51.8), Whitaker (51.7), Randolph (51.6), Gehringer (51.5), Biggio (51.1), and Doerr (48.5)--three HoFers and three borderline cases. It put him well ahead of HoFers Billy Herman, Tony Lazzeri, Nellie Fox, Joe Gordon, and Johnny Evers (between 44.4 and 46.5).

He wasn't on a first-ballot pace, but he was on a pace that would have made him a better than even shot given all the additional qualifications nvalvo mentions.
He's basically four good-great seasons from being a likely (though not first ballot) HOFer. It's a real shame he fell apart so rapidly after 2016.