Analysis of Celtics Games, '21-'22 Season

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I think the better case for him improving is.... he's got a long track record at this point of being a good shooter, guys don't usually just lose it like that

Yes shooters don't lose it completely but they can have slumps. And there are a couple of extraneous factors here: new basketball and lots of summer ball to name 2.

I think the other issue, as noted above, is that JT takes really tough shots down the stretch. That's also the function of how teams are playing him - if you noticed, whenever JT and JB had the ball in crunch time last night, the Spurs basically moved everyone towards them. JB noted as much in his post-game comments:

However, his focus was on Boston’s struggles throughout the entire frame offensively in a game where Boston managed just 41 second half points. A lack of ball movement down the stretch led to many empty possessions for Boston and Brown sees a path out of those struggles with a shift in philosophy. ​

​

“We’ve gotta keep moving, keep cutting with pace,” Brown said. “I thought in the fourth quarter we got away from what we wanted to do and stuff like that. We were rushing a little bit. We should have taken our time.”​

​

What was working for the Celtics earlier in the game? Using the team’s talented bigs as facilitators on the offensive end of the floor.​

​

“I think even in this game when we went on good offensive stretches,” Brown explained. “The ball was coming from Al, coming from Rob, etc. and we were cutting, setting screens, and taking advantage of some of those actions how they were guarding us. And we gotta make teams pay. We can’t just be out there playing basketball, we gotta read the game a little bit better.”​

​

JB and JT have to figure out ways to prevent the defenses from loading up against them so much or the Cs will continue to struggle down the stretch.

Hopefully this is all a learning curve.

 

[NomarsFool]

After the last two games will we start seeing talk about what we can get back in trade for Tatum to build around Jaylen Brown? Just kidding.

I am happy to see JB elevate his game a bit and look more like an All-Star. Still has problems with turnovers and just driving into a wall of players - but that seems to be a team-wide problem. Tatum had at least 3 pretty good looks at the basket that just didn't fall last night. I am really getting tired of the iso-crap, though. Not only is it non-entertaining, in my opinion, it just doesn't seem to be working for him this year. The step-back / side-step 3 just hasn't been falling for whatever reason.

On a different topic, is it just me or do we see Rob Williams as the rim-runner / lob master in the first couple minutes of almost every game, and them have him completely disappear from the offense for the rest of the game? It's like they forget about him.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Who has yet to have Covid since Amicron has taken over? The Spurs placed half of last nights rotation in protocol. If the league is still going to sideline players for these positive tests we would seem to lose some guys who haven’t gotten it yet.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Last night was unique though. Pushing the ball to create mismatches at the risk of turnovers or executing in the halfcourt with this particular games two best scorers in also in advantageous matchups without the risk of turnovers?

To me this goes back to what I said about people being more results-oriented as every fan cheered the 4Q and OT iso baskets when shots were made by Jaylen in the created mismatches……if Tatum and/or Jaylen made their shots, or if Jaylen finished at the buzzer would anyone here be complaining about pace and Schroder? In both games we shot the shots we wanted against the matchups we wanted…..one game Jaylen made them and the other we didn’t. It’s a make or miss league.

HRB: Schroder needs to be in there because we need a ballhander who can get the Celtics into their offense.

Also HRB: Asking Schroder to bring the ball up any faster than a slow walk is a bad idea because he might turn it over.

As to your question: they should find things that work and stick with them. Repeating things that don;t work over and over again, expecting a different result, is not great. If they want Tatum and Brown isos on every play in the 4th quarter, fine - find a way to coaching that so it works. If But if Ime wants Brown driving into 4 defenders and not passing, if he wants Tatum taking off-balance fallaways from outside the paint, if that is actually his idea of what type of shots team should be doing at ends of games, then he should be fired immediately. (I don't think that is what he is looking for but it is what he's been getting).

 

[HomeRunBaker]

HRB: Schroder needs to be in there because we need a ballhander who can get the Celtics into their offense.

Also HRB: Asking Schroder to bring the ball up any faster than a slow walk is a bad idea because he might turn it over.

Which of course isn’t what I said but it makes for a cool post.

As to your question: they should find things that work and stick with them. Repeating things that don;t work over and over again, expecting a different result, is not great. If they want Tatum and Brown isos on every play in the 4th quarter, fine - find a way to coaching that so it works. If But if Ime wants Brown driving into 4 defenders and not passing, if he wants Tatum taking off-balance fallaways from outside the paint, if that is actually his idea of what type of shots team should be doing at ends of games, then he should be fired immediately. (I don't think that is what he is looking for but it is what he's been getting).

I know you don’t really believe that Ime is looking for matchup advantages to result in what your saying……so I don’t really know what you’re saying.

If Jaylen is making bad decisions after scoring 80 points in the prior two games do you bench him? When you get Tatum in a switch against White and he misses the jumper over the smaller defender do you not run to that matchup again? This is what I’m talking about being results oriented bc vs Orlando it was much of the same except shots were going down…..and not a word was mentioned about the matchups that were created and scored on out of late game iso.

 

[benhogan]

Which of course isn’t what I said but it makes for a cool post.


I know you don’t really believe that Ime is looking for matchup advantages to result in what your saying……so I don’t really know what you’re saying.

If Jaylen is making bad decisions after scoring 80 points in the prior two games do you bench him? When you get Tatum in a switch against White and he misses the jumper over the smaller defender do you not run to that matchup again? This is what I’m talking about being results oriented bc vs Orlando it was much of the same except shots were going down…..and not a word was mentioned about the matchups that were created and scored on out of late game iso.

I think the problem people are having with IME/JAYs (besides the results) is what they have been saying since pre-season isn't jiving with what they are doing on the court.

Personally, I thought the Orlando game was crappy, regardless of the results

the majority of the Orlando game didn't excite me.

 

[Fishy1]

That or a different 2nd star. Either way, the team needs a non big who can pass and shoot the ball.

Well, depends on the goal - you're coming from a position of trying to win a championship? Right?Which I think is the right goal.

If so, then there's a lot of contingencies to think about: obviously the most important thing is the quality of your very best player. Tatum is an open question: I'm beginning to worry he doesn't have another leap in him. If that's true, then the Celtics are really gonna need a player better than either of them to compete.

I think the best move is to try to get a third star who can facilitate for Tatum and Brown. Maybe moving Brown gets you a better complementary star, but if you're going to move him, you hope it somehow be for a player that's not only better than Brown, but than Tatum.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

They are really bad with a lead. Really bad in the last 5 minutes. Really bad at resting guys so they have juice at the end. Really bad at ensuring their two best players both get fed. Really bad at consistency. Outside of their top two, pretty unreliable at threes. Bad at moving the ball around. Bad at decision making.

It’s all a problem….

 

[Van Everyman]

I sometimes wonder what PBS thinks of all this.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Tear it down to the studs and do an OKC style rebuild? Hell, only 4 games in the standings separate the Celtics and Thunder. How can a team with two stars be this bad? How is the “we are gonna blow this lead” mentality get changed? Stevens doesn’t seem like the type to make a rash move but this team is regressing…have we seen anything from Udoka that suggest he’s capable of turning this around?

Part of me thinks they’d be best served with Stevens bolting for a college job and brining in a new voice.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I sometimes wonder what PBS thinks of all this.

That it sucks he has to wait 3 more weeks to trade some of these guys

 

[Cellar-Door]

Tear it down to the studs and do an OKC style rebuild? Hell, only 4 games in the standings separate the Celtics and Thunder. How can a team with two stars be this bad? How is the “we are gonna blow this lead” mentality get changed? Stevens doesn’t seem like the type to make a rash move but this team is regressing…have we seen anything from
Udoka that suggest he’s capable of turning this around?

No, but I'd trade anyone not name Jay pretty easily, and I'd be listening on offers for everyone not named Jayson

 

[Van Everyman]

That it sucks he has to wait 3 more weeks to trade some of these guys

I was thinking more along the lines of, “Ime is doing it all wrong.”

 

[benhogan]

Tear it down to the studs and do an OKC style rebuild? Hell, only 4 games in the standings separate the Celtics and Thunder. How can a team with two stars be this bad? How is the “we are gonna blow this lead” mentality get changed? Stevens doesn’t seem like the type to make a rash move but this team is regressing…have we seen anything from Udoka that suggest he’s capable of turning this around?

Part of me thinks they’d be best served with Stevens bolting for a college job and brining in a new voice.

I wouldn't be shocked if Brad left for a plum HC job at the college or NBA level at seasons end

 

[NomarsFool]

On a different topic, is it just me or do we see Rob Williams as the rim-runner / lob master in the first couple minutes of almost every game, and them have him completely disappear from the offense for the rest of the game? It's like they forget about him.

Hah! Same story tonight. Two quick buckets for Williams to start the game. I don’t remember a basket the whole second half.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Maybe Brad pulls a Danny Ainge and takes over as coach again? Probably not.

Feels like they need to do something. This team has quickly become irrelevant.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

My faith that Jaylen and Jayson can play together is really failing these days.

And while I was a fan of the Ime hire, he’s off to the worst start for a Celtics coach in 40 years—-they have no offense scheme, highly inconsistent effort, a ton of mental mistakes, and no clear rotation or substitution pattern. COVID is obviously a factor but its getting hard to believe that’s the only cause unfortunately. They end up without their best guys out there too often, and they don’t rest others (Horford, generally) sufficiently, and they don’t even run sets to try and get their two best guys to play off each other. I just don’t get the approach or see the thinking, unfortunately.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

My faith that Jaylen and Jayson can play together is really failing these days.

And while I was a fan of the Ime hire, he’s off to the worst start for a Celtics coach in 40 years—-they have no offense scheme, highly inconsistent effort, a ton of mental mistakes, and no clear rotation or substitution pattern. COVID is obviously a factor but its getting hard to believe that’s the only cause unfortunately. They end up without their best guys out there too often, and they don’t rest others (Horford, generally) sufficiently, and they don’t even run sets to try and get their two best guys to play off each other. I just don’t get the approach or see the thinking, unfortunately.

30, anyway. ML Carr was awful. 15-24 thru 29.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1996_games.html

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Looks like Langford is in the doghouse too. Though with the C's in free fall, Ime might be pressing for wins again. Grant only played 15 minutes but was mostly invisible, which makes 3 straight games. 1/12 from 3 his last 4 games. He goes as his shot goes, though he did well bullying the small Suns team.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

30, anyway. ML Carr was awful. 15-24 thru 29.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1996_games.html

ML Carr was a terrible GM, and not a good coach, but he did that with a lot less talent than this team has. I wasn’t specifically talking record, but rather how well the coach is performing. Sadly.

 

[128]

View: https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/1479290562230562816

 

[HomeRunBaker]

View: https://twitter.com/espnstatsinfo/status/1479285943253282818?s=21

 

[128]

View: https://twitter.com/espnstatsinfo/status/1479285943253282818?s=21

Have we hit rock bottom yet?

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Is there any other player on the C's other than Brown or Tatum who would start on every team in the NBA?

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Have we hit rock bottom yet?

We hit rock bottom every time Ime discussed his vision for the team last summer.

 

[lexrageorge]

I think it should be obvious to all that running it back with Smart and the Jay’s next season is not a strategy. At least 1 of them needs to be traded this off-season no matter the circumstances. There is both a roster talent and fit issue, combined with a coaching issue.

 

[NomarsFool]

One thing that I found a little humorous, except that it is sad, that at one point the TNT announcers were talking about how it takes time for the Celtics to get "Ime's vision" for the offense. Umm....what is the vision exactly? They do the same exact crap all the time? It's iso ball, pound the ball into the floor - I see no real growth at all. What was with playing 2 bigs with Freedom (can't recall if it was with TimeLord or Grant). I mean, really? What's with having Horford clang and clang away from 3? Is that supposed to be spacing the floor?

On defense, the Celtics have been playing "switch everything" for years. What's different? Do the Celtics ever try out different zone defenses? CBS was supposed to be this great X's and O's guy, but I felt like he would get outcoached by Nurse and Spoelstra in the playoffs. He was supposed to be this great ATO guy, but the last shot for every Celtics game that matters is cringe worthy.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Is there any other player on the C's other than Brown or Tatum who would start on every team in the NBA?

No, but that's true of almost every team's 3rd guy, especially if they are a C or a smaller PG, in that at least someone has a better player at the position.

 

[lexrageorge]

One thing that I found a little humorous, except that it is sad, that at one point the TNT announcers were talking about how it takes time for the Celtics to get "Ime's vision" for the offense. Umm....what is the vision exactly? They do the same exact crap all the time? It's iso ball, pound the ball into the floor - I see no real growth at all. What was with playing 2 bigs with Freedom (can't recall if it was with TimeLord or Grant). I mean, really? What's with having Horford clang and clang away from 3? Is that supposed to be spacing the floor?

On defense, the Celtics have been playing "switch everything" for years. What's different? Do the Celtics ever try out different zone defenses? CBS was supposed to be this great X's and O's guy, but I felt like he would get outcoached by Nurse and Spoelstra in the playoffs. He was supposed to be this great ATO guy, but the last shot for every Celtics game that matters is cringe worthy.

Celtics beat Nurse and the Raptors quite easily. And it was Butler that schooled the Celtics, not Spoelstra.

 

[Devizier]

This win probability charts are mostly nonsense, but they provide a nice visual of what the fuck the Celtics have been up to this season:

 

[RedOctober3829]

Coaching aside and Ime has been underwhelming at best, this team is incredibly weak. Almost every time they have a big lead the other team makes a run they fold. Who exactly is going to step up and calm the team down to stem the tide? It shows a clear lack of leadership from anyone on the floor.

 

[Swedgin]

Is there any other player on the C's other than Brown or Tatum who would start on every team in the NBA?

No, but how many teams could credibly make such a claim? Brooklyn and.......?

 

[Cesar Crespo]

No, but how many teams could credibly make such a claim? Brooklyn and.......?

I meant in the make it fit sense. Just feels like the C's 3rd best player is worse than any serious contender or maybe even the league average.

Like, maybe Jrue doesn't start everywhere but he's going to be playing serious minutes anywhere. Who even is the C's 3rd best player? Is it Smart? I'm not a fan and think he's a particularly bad fit.

 

[Cellar-Door]

No, but how many teams could credibly make such a claim? Brooklyn and.......?

Would Kyrie start for every team? Not so sure. Couple teams with better PGs would struggle to play them and Kyrie together

 

[Cellar-Door]

I meant in the make it fit sense. Just feels like the C's 3rd best player is worse than any serious contender or maybe even the league average.

Like, maybe Jrue doesn't start everywhere but he's going to be playing serious minutes anywhere. Who even is the C's 3rd best player? Is it Smart? I'm not a fan and think he's a particularly bad fit.

I get the idea, but honestly... Smart and TL would start for a lot of teams, and if we're just talking minutes, Smart would be a top 6th man most everywhere. He's really good for that.

 

[ifmanis5]

Coaching aside and Ime has been underwhelming at best, this team is incredibly weak. Almost every time they have a big lead the other team makes a run they fold.

Stats back this up.
View: https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/1479289572320325632

The Celtics join the Pelicans as the only teams to lose 4 games in which they led by at least 15 Pts this season (Celtics led by as many as 25 on Thursday). The Celtics has lost 6 of their last 7 games that went to clutch time (score within 5 points in last 5 minutes of game).

 

[Cellar-Door]

So... we are almost halfway through the season and I'm going to ask it.....
What does Ime Udoka do well?

He's a mediocre at best ATO creator
He's bad at using his TOs and Challenges
His rotations are a mess
He refuses to adapt his defense to the situation
His offense is... bad
He isn't a motivator
He isn't a guy who learns from his errors
He doesn't seem to ever take responsibility on himself (if people thought Brad took too many bullets for the players, Ime is the opposite, he avoids all the bullets then empties his own clip into the players).

I had him on my short list early based on his rep and the coaches who he worked for, I was happy we hired him..... I think he has no positive qualities thus far, he's totally over his head.

 

[RedOctober3829]

So... we are almost halfway through the season and I'm going to ask it.....
What does Ime Udoka do well?

He's a mediocre at best ATO creator
He's bad at using his TOs and Challenges
His rotations are a mess
He refuses to adapt his defense to the situation
His offense is... bad
He isn't a motivator
He isn't a guy who learns from his errors
He doesn't seem to ever take responsibility on himself (if people thought Brad took too many bullets for the players, Ime is the opposite, he avoids all the bullets then empties his own clip into the players).

I had him on my short list early based on his rep and the coaches who he worked for, I was happy we hired him..... I think he has no positive qualities thus far, he's totally over his head.

He’s on the fast track to being Matt Patricia. He’s a guy who has worked for the right people, but is trying to be Pop without the resume to back it up.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

This roster is middling. Their results are middling, their offense is effectively terrible enough to overwhelm the value of their defense in every sense. Their individual and team shooting numbers are relatively poor. But the core of this team had roughly the same results last season too with a different coach. They were a middling offensive team that played mostly .500 ball.

This is who they are and have been for a long while now. They can still improve, especially if there are roster changes. But its not like they are really underperforming their aggregate talent.

If there is a statistical argument to be made to the contrary, I am all ears

 

[Cesar Crespo]

They are on pace for 37.9 wins. Or 38-44. That's .500 ish, If the C's go 37-45, it's really hard to argue that it's close to 36-36. 38-44 is pushing it.

How many wins do the C's need at the end of the year to be a "500 ish" team with the same performance as last year? It has to be at least 37, because at 36-46 there is no argument. I'd personally put it at 38 and that seems generous.

edit: We are only 39 games in. If the current trend continues, calling this a .500 ish team might be generous.

 

[worm0082]

Everyone criticizing the coach. Worst Celtics coaching start in 30-40 years. I agree but What’s going on in the NBA today , or past decade or so, doesn’t even remotely resemble anything we knew as basketball. The game now, It’s a 3 point streetball free-for-all. You cant look at any statistics or records from today and compare them to anything say pre 2013. They are all horrifically skewed. The last game all 5 guys I saw outside the arch on multiple possessions. Could you imagine Parish or Battie or Potapenko out there waiting to launch? I’m done with NBA until they fix this crap. I loved this game so much and there is zero joy in it anymore.

 

[Cellar-Door]

The Celtics had a .550 winning percentage in games that both Brown and Tatum played last year, which isn't great, but is okay (especially if you want to give them the benefit of the doubt over Tatum being limited post-COVID), they have a .409 winning percentage in games they both play this year. Also, I'd argue they added talent, and are playing worse.

 

[reggiecleveland]

On the other hand I saw the Washington Generals blow a 8 point lead inside of two minutes tonight. So it happens. Did the Celtics give up a 4 pointer to a 4'6" guy? Because that was a back-breaker for the Generals.

 

[Cellar-Door]

On the other hand I saw the Washington Generals blow a 8 point lead inside of two minutes tonight. So it happens. Did the Celtics give up a 4 pointer to a 4'6" guy? Because that was a back-breaker for the Generals.

They let a guy who scored under 5 points in 2 of his last 3 games go for 41 so close enough

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Everyone criticizing the coach. Worst Celtics coaching start in 30-40 years. I agree but What’s going on in the NBA today , or past decade or so, doesn’t even remotely resemble anything we knew as basketball. The game now, It’s a 3 point streetball free-for-all. You cant look at any statistics or records from today and compare them to anything say pre 2013. They are all horrifically skewed. The last game all 5 guys I saw outside the arch on multiple possessions. Could you imagine Parish or Battie or Potapenko out there waiting to launch? I’m done with NBA until they fix this crap. I loved this game so much and there is zero joy in it anymore.

Yeah, all 3 had a decent mid range game iirc. I'm sure they'd just expand it to the line. That or Battie becomes more like a poor man's Capela.

 

[Auger34]

He’s on the fast track to being Matt Patricia. He’s a guy who has worked for the right people, but is trying to be Pop without the resume to back it up.

This is 100% true and I am upset I didn’t think of it myself. He talks and throws people under the bus as if he has the gravitas of Popovich…except he’s a 1st time head coach, doesn’t have the resume or nearly the acumen that Pop does.
I am really hoping he’s one and done because if we’re to believe all of the press clippings about how honest he is then he doesn’t have the capability to adapt

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Only way he's one and done is if he loses the locker room or he finishes with less than 33 or 34 wins. He's here for at least 2 years. If it's more of the same with a different roster next year, he goes. If it's more of the same with a different coach in 23/24, Brad goes.

Maybe Brad goes with Ime after 22/23 if it's particularly bad.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Watched this game at a friend's house, so didn't focus like normal. But a couple things.

Enes played 11 minutes in the 1st half, and was +12 or something. He played, I think, 30 seconds in the 2nd half. Ime is definitely really good at one thing. Going away from something that's working.

This team is basically the New York Jets. You don't know how or what kind of back breaking fashion they will lose a game, but you know it's coming and well, it's interesting to see it play out. Myself and a couple of friends made a few bucks on the Knicks 2nd half, as soon as the C's went to the locker room with a 16 point lead at the half.

Marcus Smart needs to be gone the minute Brad can get a decent return for him. I talked about it repeatedly when they re-signed him and I'll continue to say it. He does a lot of good things, I've enjoyed rooting for him, but damn, he's just about as bad a fit for the Jays as anyone could be. Maybe only slightly better than DS, who is an even worse fit.

 

[slamminsammya]

Everyone criticizing the coach. Worst Celtics coaching start in 30-40 years. I agree but What’s going on in the NBA today , or past decade or so, doesn’t even remotely resemble anything we knew as basketball. The game now, It’s a 3 point streetball free-for-all. You cant look at any statistics or records from today and compare them to anything say pre 2013. They are all horrifically skewed. The last game all 5 guys I saw outside the arch on multiple possessions. Could you imagine Parish or Battie or Potapenko out there waiting to launch? I’m done with NBA until they fix this crap. I loved this game so much and there is zero joy in it anymore.

Cool post. Don't we have a thread about the current state of the NBA so we don't have to clutter the Celtics analysis thread with get off my lawn 3z r bad takez?

 

[lovegtm]

Everyone criticizing the coach. Worst Celtics coaching start in 30-40 years. I agree but What’s going on in the NBA today , or past decade or so, doesn’t even remotely resemble anything we knew as basketball. The game now, It’s a 3 point streetball free-for-all. You cant look at any statistics or records from today and compare them to anything say pre 2013. They are all horrifically skewed. The last game all 5 guys I saw outside the arch on multiple possessions. Could you imagine Parish or Battie or Potapenko out there waiting to launch? I’m done with NBA until they fix this crap. I loved this game so much and there is zero joy in it anymore.

Sorry to see you go man. We're going to miss your prolific and thoughtful posting in here.