ALDS vs. MFY—Buckle Up

soup17

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I was reminded of '04 ALCS game 6. Among my many vivid memories of that series was the last out of Game 6. I remembered standing there (I stood through most of the last 4 games) saying over and over "I can't believe Tony F'n Clark is going to beat us. After all this, Tony Clark is going to hit a three run homer to win this game and send us home. Tony Clark!" I just rewatched the at bat and it gave me chills. Foulke: "I had to make it interesting!"

To this day, that is the most excruciating playoff win I remember, but this one is a very close second.
 

Old Fart Tree

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I was reminded of '04 ALCS game 6. Among my many vivid memories of that series was the last out of Game 6. I remembered standing there (I stood through most of the last 4 games) saying over and over "I can't believe Tony F'n Clark is going to beat us. After all this, Tony Clark is going to hit a three run homer to win this game and send us home. Tony Clark!" I just rewatched the at bat and it gave me chills. Foulke: "I had to make it interesting!"

To this day, that is the most excruciating playoff win I remember, but this one is a very close second.

100% the same for me. With Kimbrel floundering I could only think of foulke trying to put away Tony the Tiger, running on fumes.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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100% the same for me. With Kimbrel floundering I could only think of foulke trying to put away Tony the Tiger, running on fumes.
Was that the same game that Wakefield pitched in relief and Varitek could barely handle his knuckles? IIRC, that was a bases loaded full count situation also... I remember having nauseous feelings during that inning.
 

TFisNEXT

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Was that the same game that Wakefield pitched in relief and Varitek could barely handle his knuckles? IIRC, that was a bases loaded full count situation also... I remember having nauseous feelings during that inning.
No. You're thinking of game 5 at Fenway in extra innings. I think Wakefield struck out Sierra with runners on 2nd and 3rd to end the inning after he had already thrown two passed balls/WPs.

Game 6 was Foulke closing out the Bloody Sock game from Schilling in the Toilet. Foulke was running on fumes throwing like 86mph "fastballs" and so many of us were convinced that Tony Clark was going to send us home with a walkoff 3-run HR. That moment seems to come up in game threads a lot, and I've said previously that I think I smoked about 3 cigs that inning and I wasn't a smoker. One of the most terrifying endings to a playoff game I will ever experience.
 

mfried

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I had both of these same thoughts. 1986 was really traumatic for me - my school was 50/50 Boston vs New Yorkers in 1986, and I actually left for 6 months after the WS. Escaped for a semester to DC for my sanity.

Watching Kimbrel nearly disintegrate yesterday was... ....not fun.
I’m beginning to think that this a contract worth surrendering. Despite SSS Brasier might be a better solution going forward.
 

The Allented Mr Ripley

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Game 5 also featured Tony Clark's automatic double to RF in the 9th that hopped just over the fence, if it had stayed in the park, Ruben Sierra surely would have scored the go-ahead run. There were a lot of white-knuckle moments in that game.
 
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joe dokes

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Yup. Wake pitching to varitek in extras in game 5 was also terrifying though.
That was the "check the heart attack symptoms on the fridge magnet" game for me. Partly because it was the 2nd incredibly long game in row and it was late. And the rainout meant they played 5 days in a row. I was probably already catatonic by game 6, so the Foulke-Clark matchup wasn't as excruciating.
 

TFisNEXT

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Game 5 also featured Tony Clark's automatic double to RF in the 9th that hopped just over the fence, if it had stayed in the park, Ruben Sierra surely would have scored the tying run. There were a lot of white-knuckle moments in that game.
I think that ball hit the top of the wall too before getting into the stands. It almost "climbed" the railing there if memory serves correctly. Talk about a game of fractions of an inch.

Kimbrel's near-meltdown ranks pretty high on the list, but probably a notch below the '04 ALCS moments given the historical context.
 

BaseballJones

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I’m beginning to think that this a contract worth surrendering. Despite SSS Brasier might be a better solution going forward.
This is a worthy conversation...but let's wait to have it until the season is over. For now, Kimbrel is the closer.
 

JimD

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I've seen multiple mentions about the impact of the New Toilet dimensions on Vasquez's cheapie HR and the Sanchez would-be grand slam that died at the track. Wouldn't Sanchez's hit have been off the wall at Fenway, and not a home run? If Beni played the carom correctly, it may have still only been one run in, and possibly the end of the game if Hechavarria got waved in and then thrown out at the plate.

(Of course, if the game were at Fenway, Kinsler would have had a wall ball double in the first instead of a fly out, with the possibility of multiple runs in if Gardner doesn't play it correctly).
 

bosockboy

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I think that ball hit the top of the wall too before getting into the stands. It almost "climbed" the railing there if memory serves correctly. Talk about a game of fractions of an inch.

Kimbrel's near-meltdown ranks pretty high on the list, but probably a notch below the '04 ALCS moments given the historical context.
Vivid image of Kapler throwing his hands up in the air. Games 4 and 5 were heavyweight title fights, nothing less.
 

garzooma

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Did anyone notice if Pearce was holding Judge at first in the ninth? And if he wasn't, does he get to Gregorius's ground ball single?
 

mt8thsw9th

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I think that ball hit the top of the wall too before getting into the stands. It almost "climbed" the railing there if memory serves correctly. Talk about a game of fractions of an inch.

Kimbrel's near-meltdown ranks pretty high on the list, but probably a notch below the '04 ALCS moments given the historical context.
 

Dan Murfman

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No. You're thinking of game 5 at Fenway in extra innings. I think Wakefield struck out Sierra with runners on 2nd and 3rd to end the inning after he had already thrown two passed balls/WPs.
Small correction 3 passed balls.

Top of the 13th, Yankees Batting, Tied 4-4, Red Sox' Tim Wakefield facing 3-4-5
t13
4-4 0 --- 6,(3-2) NYY Gary Sheffield Tim Wakefield -8% 42% Strikeout Swinging, Passed Ball; Sheffield to 1B
t13 4-4 0 1-- 5,(3-1) O NYY Hideki Matsui Tim Wakefield 8% 50% Groundout: 2B-SS/Forceout at 2B
t13 4-4 1 1-- 3,(1-1) O NYY Bernie Williams Tim Wakefield 8% 58% Flyball: RF
t13 4-4 2 1-- 3,(1-1) NYY Jorge Posada Tim Wakefield -4% 55% Passed Ball; Matsui to 2B
t13 4-4 2 -2- 5,(3-1) NYY Jorge Posada Tim Wakefield -1% 53% Intentional Walk
t13 4-4 2 12- 5,(1-2) NYY Ruben Sierra Tim Wakefield -3% 50% Passed Ball; Matsui to 3B; Posada to 2B
t13 4-4 2 -23 7,(3-2) O NYY Ruben Sierra Tim Wakefield 16% 66% Strikeout Swinging
0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors, 2 LOB. Yankees 4, Red Sox 4.
 
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geoduck no quahog

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So, I think what's lost in all the euphoria was how risky and probably unnecessary that Nunez play was.

There were these possible outcomes:

1. Torres out a 1B. Game over.
2. Torres safe at 1B. Game tied. Top of the Yankee order due in the 10th against Kelly.
3. Ball skips by Pearce. Game over.

And the 4th (which is what should have happened)

Nunez holds ball. Bases loaded. McCutchen due up.
 

savage362

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I've seen multiple mentions about the impact of the New Toilet dimensions on Vasquez's cheapie HR and the Sanchez would-be grand slam that died at the track. Wouldn't Sanchez's hit have been off the wall at Fenway, and not a home run? If Beni played the carom correctly, it may have still only been one run in, and possibly the end of the game if Hechavarria got waved in and then thrown out at the plate.

(Of course, if the game were at Fenway, Kinsler would have had a wall ball double in the first instead of a fly out, with the possibility of multiple runs in if Gardner doesn't play it correctly).
Based on the angle that that ball came down, I would guess it would have been a home run in Fenway. It certainly had the distance.


 

mikeysox

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There were these possible outcomes:

1. Torres out a 1B. Game over.
2. Torres safe at 1B. Game tied. Top of the Yankee order due in the 10th against Kelly.
3. Ball skips by Pearce. Game over.
.
I agree that it was a risky situation.
But, Re 2, watching the replay, I don't think the runner on 2nd (Hechavarria?) tries to score if Pearce catches the throw but Torres is safe. Or if he does, I think Pearce has a very good play on him at home. So, I would say the result of 2 is bases loaded, McCutcheon up (does Kelly come in?).

In any event, I think it that spot it's good to be aggressive. They can end the game on the play, but also have the cushion of game 5. If it was an elimination game for us, I might feel differently.
 

chawson

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When was the last time a Red Sox team had three former Yankees on it?

The MFY seem to routinely roster former Sox players, but it seems especially sweet that three ex-Yankees (Eovaldi, Nunez, Pearce) all played prominent roles in this series. I'm sure there are instances going back several decades, but in my lifetime, I can't remember a team with more than one ex-Yank here or there (Aceves, Mendoza, Cone).
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I've seen multiple mentions about the impact of the New Toilet dimensions on Vasquez's cheapie HR and the Sanchez would-be grand slam that died at the track. Wouldn't Sanchez's hit have been off the wall at Fenway, and not a home run? If Beni played the carom correctly, it may have still only been one run in, and possibly the end of the game if Hechavarria got waved in and then thrown out at the plate.

(Of course, if the game were at Fenway, Kinsler would have had a wall ball double in the first instead of a fly out, with the possibility of multiple runs in if Gardner doesn't play it correctly).
I think the ball was hit high enough that it would have landed in the Monster seats. It wasn't a line drive, it was a moon shot fly ball that definitely carried well past where the wall would have been.

And savage362 has the graphic to back that up.
 

lexrageorge

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So, I think what's lost in all the euphoria was how risky and probably unnecessary that Nunez play was.

There were these possible outcomes:

1. Torres out a 1B. Game over.
2. Torres safe at 1B. Game tied. Top of the Yankee order due in the 10th against Kelly.
3. Ball skips by Pearce. Game over.

And the 4th (which is what should have happened)

Nunez holds ball. Bases loaded. McCutchen due up.
To be fair to Nunez, his priority is to get the ball, and instinctively he's going to throw it to first unless it's obvious he has no play. The general rule there is that if there's a chance for a play at first, you make the throw, especially with 2 outs.
 

Old Fart Tree

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Pretty sure Sanchez's ball is out at Fenway. If not, off the very tippy top of the wall.

Kinsler's I'm less sure about, maybe gone, but more likely off the wall.
 

OCD SS

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I’m beginning to think that this a contract worth surrendering. Despite SSS Brasier might be a better solution going forward.
Sometimes I get a whiff of Pabelbon's last season with the Sox off of Kimbrel, and it scares me just how much money he might make. But really I'd like to have as many good relievers as possible on the team (especially with DD's weakness in the area), so I guess it comes down to the $. I can wait for the offseason to figure it out, though...
 

Saints Rest

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I've seen multiple mentions about the impact of the New Toilet dimensions on Vasquez's cheapie HR and the Sanchez would-be grand slam that died at the track. Wouldn't Sanchez's hit have been off the wall at Fenway, and not a home run? If Beni played the carom correctly, it may have still only been one run in, and possibly the end of the game if Hechavarria got waved in and then thrown out at the plate.

(Of course, if the game were at Fenway, Kinsler would have had a wall ball double in the first instead of a fly out, with the possibility of multiple runs in if Gardner doesn't play it correctly).
I seem to recall the “what if the game had been played at the other stadium” for the 78 play-in game. Dent’s HR is a fly out; some line drive that Pinella snared despite being blinded by the sun would have been a HR.
 

BoSoxLady

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100% the same for me. With Kimbrel floundering I could only think of foulke trying to put away Tony the Tiger, running on fumes.
Hubby and I had the same conversation at the time. We have wonderful memories of '04 but of course, the stress was immense and still makes me quiver.
 

Pitt the Elder

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Given playoff bullpen usage, getting an early muti-run lead is huge. I remember how frustrating the 2016 ALDS against the Indians was, where the Sox would fall behind by a couple and, when it looked like they might finally be getting to the starter, Miller would come in for 2 innings and completely shut them down. I remember the series against Houston last year as similar, though not quite as extreme.

Houston has better starting pitching than the Yanks but I feel like this Sox team is pretty well constructed to antagonize high-velocity starters. They hit well against 95+ fastballs, they can work counts, and they can push the envelope on the bases.
 

TFisNEXT

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I think the ball was hit high enough that it would have landed in the Monster seats. It wasn't a line drive, it was a moon shot fly ball that definitely carried well past where the wall would have been.

And savage362 has the graphic to back that up.
Agree RE: Sanchez. The only reason it wasn't out at Yankee stadium was because he got under it too much. I think someone in the game thread posted it had an exit velocity of 107mph. That was the exact type of fly ball that the monster makes a HR more likely, unlike many other flyballs that are hurt by the height of the monster.

It is the reverse of the '78 "different stadium" conundrum posted earlier...Vazquez's ball is a can of corn in Fenway. Though the only objection one might make is that I suppose the Red Sox may have broken the game wide open earlier because Kinsler's ball in the 1st is probably a 3 run double with 2 outs at Fenway versus an inning-ending fly out.
 

dhappy42

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Agree RE: Sanchez. The only reason it wasn't out at Yankee stadium was because he got under it too much. I think someone in the game thread posted it had an exit velocity of 107mph. That was the exact type of fly ball that the monster makes a HR more likely, unlike many other flyballs that are hurt by the height of the monster.

It is the reverse of the '78 "different stadium" conundrum posted earlier...Vazquez's ball is a can of corn in Fenway. Though the only objection one might make is that I suppose the Red Sox may have broken the game wide open earlier because Kinsler's ball in the 1st is probably a 3 run double with 2 outs at Fenway versus an inning-ending fly out.
Think of how boring it would be if every baseball field, like most sports, had exactly the same dimensions.

Or conversely, think of the fun if football fields and basketball courts varied in shape and size.
 

lexrageorge

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Think of how boring it would be if every baseball field, like most sports, had exactly the same dimensions.

Or conversely, think of the fun if football fields and basketball courts varied in shape and size.
Baseball's rules uniquely allow it to have different field dimensions. Whereas changing the length of a football field would be akin to changing the distance between bases.

As to your first sentence, how quickly we forget the infamous cookie cutter parks that populated the National League in the 1970s.
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

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If '04 happened now, I am not sure I survive those types of games again. 14 years ago, I was 29. At 43 I am not sure the heart makes it. I definitely don't bounce back the same after nervous drinking that is for sure. I remember basically sleepwalking through work games 4-7. Game 4 was not as stressful as down 3-0, it was great that they won, but there still didn't seem to be any real chance. I think what made it even worse, was this was right after the 2003 ALCS. Between the 2 years, out of 14 games, I went to 11 including both game 7's. What a difference a year makes - 2003 I think my family had me on suicide watch, and 2004 I could not have possibly imagined ever having a feeling that beat that high of the victory in that god awful stadium.
 

Al Zarilla

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Based on the angle that that ball came down, I would guess it would have been a home run in Fenway. It certainly had the distance.


Wait, Beni caught the ball on the warning track, which supposed to be 15 feet wide. He was closer to the grass than the wall when he caught it, so 8 - 9 feet short of the wall. Yankee Stadium is 316 down the line, Fenway 310, so how could it have gone out at Fenway? It wasn't right down the line, so it depends on how quickly the wall gets deeper. Fenway doesn't get much deeper in left for a while, so I don't know. What was the distance of Sanchez's flyball?
 

savage362

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Wait, Beni caught the ball on the warning track, which supposed to be 15 feet wide. He was closer to the grass than the wall when he caught it, so 8 - 9 feet short of the wall. Yankee Stadium is 316 down the line, Fenway 310, so how could it have gone out at Fenway? It wasn't right down the line, so it depends on how quickly the wall gets deeper. Fenway doesn't get much deeper in left for a while, so I don't know. What was the distance of Sanchez's flyball?
344 ft
 

Humphrey

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100% the same for me. With Kimbrel floundering I could only think of foulke trying to put away Tony the Tiger, running on fumes.
The thought crossed my mind too; but when I saw that pitch heading to the plate, I felt it was a beauty and "he ain't hittin' that"... and he didn't!
 

Humphrey

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In game 3 when it was 1-0 or 0-0, Judge hit a ball to right that I figured was gone into the first row or two. Somehow it wasn't down the line as much and Betts caught it in front of the scoreboard. Thought maybe luck was turning at that point.
 

joe dokes

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If '04 happened now, I am not sure I survive those types of games again. 14 years ago, I was 29. At 43 I am not sure the heart makes it. I definitely don't bounce back the same after nervous drinking that is for sure.
14 years ago I was 43. You'll be fine. :redwine:
(I switched to the radio after the first two guys got on base against Kimbrel. Pacing is easier when only listening is involved.)
 

Skiponzo

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14 years ago I was 43. You'll be fine. :redwine:
(I switched to the radio after the first two guys got on base against Kimbrel. Pacing is easier when only listening is involved.)
I pulled my 12 y/o from his scout meeting and we listened to Joe while pacing in the parking lot. People kept trying to talk to us and we kept avoiding eye contact and muttering stuff like "COME ON Craig!" . Good memories. even if they are only a couple days old.
 

CantKeepmedown

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I wanted to puke on Tuesday night. My anxiety was nowhere near as bad in 2013 or 2007 (and there certainly were some tight games) Being 5-10 years younger (and probably 5-10 more beers deep) certainly helped. But we weren't dealing with the Yankees either. The thought of getting knocked out by them really put me in a tizzy (and it wasn't even an elimination game).
 

InstaFace

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Nope. If the ball had skipped past, Mookie would have corralled it (showing Perfect Fundamentals) and gunned out the runner at the plate. Not just adding a nut-punch to the gut-punch but forever replacing Captain Jetes’ play to cut down Jeremy Giambi in all the highlights from years gone by.
</fan fiction >
Truly, we are in the Optimistic Red Sox Fan era, where all is roses, everything is getting better, and all the kids are above average.
 
I just wanted to say, with apologies for venting off topic, that I cannot BELIEVE how many stories about Game 4 describe the Yankees as making some kind of heroic, stirring effort in the bottom of the ninth (most recently, Coley Harvey of ESPN calling it "a daring comeback").

Kimbrel walked Judge and Voit on four straight pitches each. He hit Walker with the first pitch of his at-bat. That's three players who had first base literally handed to them.

Stanton, the Yankees' highest-paid player, struck out. (Had he been even a little bit patient, he would probably have walked too.)

Sanchez, who batted less than .200 during the regular season, flew out.

Torres grounded out feebly.

The history-making New York offense managed a grand total of one hit in the ninth: Gregorius's ground-ball single through the right side of the infield.

If the Yankees had a chance to win that game, it was because--and only because--Kimbrel nearly had a nervous breakdown on the mound. I know that everybody here knows that, but I needed to say it.
 

dhappy42

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Baseball's rules uniquely allow it to have different field dimensions. Whereas changing the length of a football field would be akin to changing the distance between bases.
I know. It’d still be funny. I’ve heard stories about a high school in Detroit with a 90-yard field. The architects forgot to plan for end zones.

Also in youth sports, some basketball courts are longer and/or wider than others. In college/pros, if there was leeway on dimensions, fast teams could stretch out their courts. Slower teams could compress. The parquet at the old Garden provided a home court advantage.

As to your first sentence, how quickly we forget the infamous cookie cutter parks that populated the National League in the 1970s.
I remember those. They all had turf too. Couldn’t tell some of them apart.