ALDS vs. MFY—Buckle Up

Saints Rest

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I just wanted to say, with apologies for venting off topic, that I cannot BELIEVE how many stories about Game 4 describe the Yankees as making some kind of heroic, stirring effort in the bottom of the ninth (most recently, Coley Harvey of ESPN calling it "a daring comeback").

Kimbrel walked Judge and Voit on four straight pitches each. He hit Walker with the first pitch of his at-bat. That's three players who had first base literally handed to them.

Stanton, the Yankees' highest-paid player, struck out. (Had he been even a little bit patient, he would probably have walked too.)

Sanchez, who batted less than .200 during the regular season, flew out.

Torres grounded out feebly.

The history-making New York offense managed a grand total of one hit in the ninth: Gregorius's ground-ball single through the right side of the infield.

If the Yankees had a chance to win that game, it was because--and only because--Kimbrel nearly had a nervous breakdown on the mound. I know that everybody here knows that, but I needed to say it.
I agree. I can't get over how many times I've heard Judge lauded for "working a walk." To me, "working a walk," is when you foul off a bunch of 2-strike pitches, and come back from being behind in the count. Not sitting there waiting for the pitcher to throw a strike before even thinking about swinging.
 

Saints Rest

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I know. It’d still be funny. I’ve heard stories about a high school in Detroit with a 90-yard field. The architects forgot to plan for end zones.

Also in youth sports, some basketball courts are longer and/or wider than others. In college/pros, if there was leeway on dimensions, fast teams could stretch out their courts. Slower teams could compress. The parquet at the old Garden provided a home court advantage.



I remember those. They all had turf too. Couldn’t tell some of them apart.
The NHL rinks used to be different. At least the old Garden was noticeably smaller ice surface than most.
 

InsideTheParker

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14 years ago I was 43. You'll be fine. :redwine:
(I switched to the radio after the first two guys got on base against Kimbrel. Pacing is easier when only listening is involved.)
And I am even older than you, with high blood pressure. It is totally the right thing for me to skip Kimbrel's inning, once it seems he doesn't have it on a given night. I am protecting my heart from that guy.
 

Al Zarilla

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And I am even older than you, with high blood pressure. It is totally the right thing for me to skip Kimbrel's inning, once it seems he doesn't have it on a given night. I am protecting my heart from that guy.
Now we know why you DVR and watch CK later. Don’t blame you. I couldn’t sit on the couch once he looked bad, so I’d walk through a couple of rooms, whatever it takes to get back just in time to see the next pitch. I’ve mentioned it before, but the only Sox closer that made me go outside and knock some dead branches off trees or something was Papelbon. He was so freaking slow.
 
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bosox79

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I get nervous watching the Sox at times which is odd to me because if the Sox lose, it doesn't really affect my mood any. I'm over it the moment it happens. It's just a sport. My mood does change for the better with wins though. On the flipside, anytime the Pats lose, I think my dad is going to have a heart attack.
 

TheoShmeo

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The one negative about this series being over is that Aaron Boone doesn’t have any more chances to make moronic, mind numbing decisions. Seeing him do that, knowing immediately he was screwing up and then hearing and reading about it in the NY market incessantly has been gold.

Till next season, Booney.
 

Max Power

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I get nervous watching the Sox at times which is odd to me because if the Sox lose, it doesn't really affect my mood any. I'm over it the moment it happens. It's just a sport. My mood does change for the better with wins though. On the flipside, anytime the Pats lose, I think my dad is going to have a heart attack.
That's the beauty of sports. It doesn't really matter, but it makes you feel like it's the most important thing in the world while it's happening.
 

bosockboy

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The one negative about this series being over is that Aaron Boone doesn’t have any more chances to make moronic, mind numbing decisions. Seeing him do that, knowing immediately he was screwing up and then hearing and reading about it in the NY market incessantly has been gold.

Till next season, Booney.
This felt like it erased 2003 for me, very likely because of Boone being manager.
 

Mr. Wednesday

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The NHL rinks used to be different. At least the old Garden was noticeably smaller ice surface than most.
College rinks still are different. They range from NHL-standard 200x85 up to 100 ft wide (multiple Olympic-size rinks) and 204 ft in length (Harvard's Bright Center, AFAIK the only rink longer than the standard 200 ft).
 

reggiecleveland

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2003 can't be erased, it's a structural part of why 2004 was so great.
Exactly. After 04 I laughed every time they showed the Boone homer on YES. Buckner I still change the channel. But the Boone homer was like the battle of the bulge, a last gasp for the bad guys before ultimate defeat. Everytime I see it i know Josh Beckett took care of that team, and 12 month later what happened. In fact I would not trade an 03 championship for what happened in 04. 04 was sweeter because of what people thought 03 meant.
 

chrisfont9

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After all that happened, them having Boone and even Dent around seemed like petty trolling. I mean I know Boone has a legitimate job (cough) so it's more the media and fans thinking they can still bother us with that. Dent, I mean, come on. We blew a play-in game. They blew a 3-0 ALCS lead. Nice try.
 

JimD

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Thinking about the new world order where the Yankees can't win the big one against the Red Sox, it's easy to see how perfectly this series would have fit into the pre-2004 narrative if you flipped it around.

Game 1 - Yankees win at home behind their ace, with the Sox chipping away at an early NY lead but never catching up.

Game 2 - surprisingly easy Red Sox win at YS to capture home-field advantage and generate a huge buzz (complete with a media firestorm when a Sox player trolls the Yankees with 'Dirty Water' when leaving the stadium).

Game 3 - a rocking Fenway Park is silenced by a historic MFY beatdown, while a journeyman pitcher New York picked up at the trading deadline dominates the Boston lineup. Yankee player hits first ever postseason cycle with a home run off a Sox position player.

Game 4 - taut game, MFY's grab early lead that holds until Sox storm back in desperate ninth-inning rally, only to fall one run short. Yankees celebrate on Fenway lawn while Sox manager and players mouth sad platitudes about how they thought they were going to win, and point out how proud they are, how bright the future is, etc.

Sure is nice to see Yankee fans getting a taste of what we lived with for all those years.
 

Flunky

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Well it all backfired. The script was supposed to be they'd get the Sox back the next time, that it would be vindication of the idea that 2004 was a fluke - the Yankees STILL own the Sox in the post-season. NOPE. Lost some of the gravitas since it's been so long, but there it is.

The striking thing is how quickly we saw the entitlement return. 100 wins and an ALDS exit causes such panic. And the skewering of Stanton is just so wrong. Aside from CC I think you could field almost the exact same team next year and win 100+ again. But no, blow it up. We want Harper, Machado, Corbin, Kershaw, sucks they have to even lower themselves to play the games just hand da crown ovah fah ringz numbah 28 tru 40!

Their fans all hate Boone though, and there I have to agree with them. And they won't fire him anytime soon which is cool. still, I do think the Sox are facing some play-in games over the next 4 or so seasons.
 

DrewDawg

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Off topic: Wonder if some day the "real" distances to some of those fences will be posted, just like they changed Fenway's. I can't believe some of those balls to right field end up being homers.
Using Google Maps "measure distance" tool I get

RF: 310' (listed at 314')
CF: 403' (listed at 408')
LF: 317' (listed at 318')

Pretty close--I'd chalk up those differences to imprecise use of the google tool.
 

joe dokes

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Thinking about the new world order where the Yankees can't win the big one against the Red Sox, it's easy to see how perfectly this series would have fit into the pre-2004 narrative if you flipped it around.

Game 1 - Yankees win at home behind their ace, with the Sox chipping away at an early NY lead but never catching up.

Game 2 - surprisingly easy Red Sox win at YS to capture home-field advantage and generate a huge buzz (complete with a media firestorm when a Sox player trolls the Yankees with 'Dirty Water' when leaving the stadium).

Game 3 - a rocking Fenway Park is silenced by a historic MFY beatdown, while a journeyman pitcher New York picked up at the trading deadline dominates the Boston lineup. Yankee player hits first ever postseason cycle with a home run off a Sox position player.

Game 4 - taut game, MFY's grab early lead that holds until Sox storm back in desperate ninth-inning rally, only to fall one run short. Yankees celebrate on Fenway lawn while Sox manager and players mouth sad platitudes about how they thought they were going to win, and point out how proud they are, how bright the future is, etc.

Sure is nice to see Yankee fans getting a taste of what we lived with for all those years.

Doesn't exactly follow your script, but 1999's "where is Roger" Game 3 fits the narrative. As does Flailing Butch Huskey in the NYY clincher.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Using Google Maps "measure distance" tool I get

RF: 310' (listed at 314')
CF: 403' (listed at 408')
LF: 317' (listed at 318')

Pretty close--I'd chalk up those differences to imprecise use of the google tool.
But it's still pretty staggering to realize that that right field fence is at most only slightly further away than Fenway's LF fence at the foul poles (314 vs. 310) -- but with a wall that's 30 feet shorter. Imagine if every fly ball that scraped the Monster just over the left fielder's leap for a double was a dinger. Mitch Moreland would have had 35 home runs last year. Dwight Evans would be in the Hall of Fame.
 

The Allented Mr Ripley

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But the LF wall at Yankee Stadium gets deep real fast, similar to Fenway's RF.

Minute Maid Park's LF, on the other hand, has virtually the same dimensions as Fenway's (315 vs 310) with a wall that's half the height or less. The dimensions don't differ until Minute Maid abruptly bumps out to 362 in left-center. Talk about a bandbox.

Minute Maid:



This wall is 315 from home plate and doesn't get appreciably deeper for a while:

 
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Al Zarilla

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Welp, I guess you could say that Kimbrel was pitching to the ballpark he was in. :) Sanchez’s flyball was so high that it came almost straight down. 344’ would have been a (shitty) souvenir for someone in the monster seats all right. Luckily they were playing in the stadium, so one for Yankee fans to cry over for years. Some clown writer on ESPN wrote an article “What if Nunez had been playing one or two feet deeper at third.” Well, he wasn’t. What if McNamara had put Stapleton in for Buckner like he had for other games. Yeah, it was tied by then. What if Clemens pitched through his “blister”.
 

ledsox

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Now we know why you DVR and watch CK later. Don’t blame you. I couldn’t sit on the couch once he looked bad, so I’d walk through a couple of rooms, whatever it takes to get back just in time to see the next pitch. I’ve mentioned it before, but the only Sox closer that made me go outside and knock some dead branches off trees or something was Papelbon. He was so freaking slow.
While you (and Joe Kelly) got up I finally decided to sit down. For game 4 I started the game standing and pacing. Since we grabbed the lead I decided I had to stay standing and just drinking water and pacing and lots of stretching. I made it to the ninth, started feeling weak and hungry and then felt I had to leave the room and just listen when the wildness was happening. In the middle of the Sanchez at bat I said screw it, I came back and sat down on the couch. 5 pitches or so later the game was over. I ate real good after that game.

In '04 it was similar. Lot's of standing and stretching to try to relieve stress and no beer during the that series. I felt I had to sacrifice something. Crazy things the Sox do to us.
 

ledsox

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Welp, I guess you could say that Kimbrel was pitching to the ballpark he was in. :) Sanchez’s flyball was so high that it came almost straight down. 344’ would have been a (shitty) souvenir for someone in the monster seats all right. Luckily they were playing in the stadium, so one for Yankee fans to cry over for years. Some clown writer on ESPN wrote an article “What if Nunez had been playing one or two feet deeper at third.” Well, he wasn’t. What if McNamara had put Stapleton in for Buckner like he had for other games. Yeah, it was tied by then. What if Clemens pitched through his “blister”.
Nunez was pretty deep as it was. Seemed like he had to go 30 feet for that dribbler. Anyone know for sure?
I know we all thought, "not again" with Torres. What a tremendous play.
 

The Allented Mr Ripley

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It seemed like the Yankees hit a ton of dribblers during the series. Normally that's what you'd want, but they prevented the Sox from turning a few DPs and made plays like the last one of Game 4 heart-stoppingly close.
 

S. H. Frog

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Beating Boone is cathartic for me for some reason.
Especially beating Boone by rocking his starters while he picked his nose sitting on a dynamite bullpen. Dude made his name for running into a knuckleball at the right time, no more no less, and he got exposed last week.

Picking Bucky Dent to throw out the first pitch is one thing, hiring a manager is another.
 

The Filthy One

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It seemed like the Yankees hit a ton of dribblers during the series. Normally that's what you'd want, but they prevented the Sox from turning a few DPs and made plays like the last one of Game 4 heart-stoppingly close.
This is another reason to feel good about the pitching heading into the Houston series. After Game 2, I don't remember a lot of well-hit balls that the Sox were lucky to convert into outs. Stanton and Judge each hit one 300+ feet at greater than 100 MPH exit velo off Eovaldi, and obviously Sanchez's sac fly that had an exit velo > 100, but otherwise, it was lots of weak contact. The hit off Kimbrel was a six hopper through infield. The Yankees squared up very little the last two games of the series.
 

troparra

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This didn't occur to me until Anderson said "and the Red Sox are one strike away!" That caused the heart palpitations to jump even faster. Just glad I didn't hear any announcers mention how many outs were left after Sale got the first batter in the 8th...

(So many years of success for Boston sports teams, and yet I am still fundamentally broken. What a ride.)
I had the opposite feeling. I think because we had already seen 2 on, nobody out, followed by bases loaded, one out, and then bases loaded, one out and 1 run in. When I heard "one strike away", you could see the light at the end of the tunnel.
 

JimD

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While you (and Joe Kelly) got up I finally decided to sit down. For game 4 I started the game standing and pacing. Since we grabbed the lead I decided I had to stay standing and just drinking water and pacing and lots of stretching. I made it to the ninth, started feeling weak and hungry and then felt I had to leave the room and just listen when the wildness was happening. In the middle of the Sanchez at bat I said screw it, I came back and sat down on the couch. 5 pitches or so later the game was over. I ate real good after that game.

In '04 it was similar. Lot's of standing and stretching to try to relieve stress and no beer during the that series. I felt I had to sacrifice something. Crazy things the Sox do to us.
I didn't drink beer either during the '04 comeback or in the past week. Just couldn't, stuck with water. I'm looking forward to a few cold ones during the ALCS. I'll be anxious for the Sox to do well of course, but the angst during a MFY series is off the charts exponentially by comparison.
 

Al Zarilla

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Nunez was pretty deep as it was. Seemed like he had to go 30 feet for that dribbler. Anyone know for sure?
I know we all thought, "not again" with Torres. What a tremendous play.
Can't find the article anymore but I'm pretty sure it said Nunez was playing 116 feet away from the plate. Does seem pretty deep, but you don't have to worry about them bunting with 2 outs (usually). When I saw like the second bounce, I thought he'd have to eat the ball but thank God he made the play of his life (Pearce also).
 

TFisNEXT

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Welp, I guess you could say that Kimbrel was pitching to the ballpark he was in. :) Sanchez’s flyball was so high that it came almost straight down. 344’ would have been a (shitty) souvenir for someone in the monster seats all right. Luckily they were playing in the stadium, so one for Yankee fans to cry over for years. Some clown writer on ESPN wrote an article “What if Nunez had been playing one or two feet deeper at third.” Well, he wasn’t. What if McNamara had put Stapleton in for Buckner like he had for other games. Yeah, it was tied by then. What if Clemens pitched through his “blister”.
The "what if" game is great coming from the MFY side now. As we've already said ad nauseam, that is the pre-2004 Red Sox script to a T.

I know a lot of MFY fans and you can feel the disbelief and rationalization for the loss seeping through the past few days.
 

Adrian's Dome

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The "what if" game is great coming from the MFY side now. As we've already said ad nauseam, that is the pre-2004 Red Sox script to a T.

I know a lot of MFY fans and you can feel the disbelief and rationalization for the loss seeping through the past few days.
I had one tell me earlier today, "the Yankees aren't that good, no wonder the Sox beat them so easily."

Your team won 100 fucking games in a tough division and you were chanting for us not even a week and a half ago, then had all the confidence on the planet after the Price game. Now you're just some garbo squad that was lucky to be there?

I just nodded and said "yeah, sure."
 

terrynever

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You guys act like Yankee fans never knew about losing until 2004. The younger ones who came of age in the mid-1990s fit that description but older folks can tell you about 1965-75 and 1982-92. A decade of mediocrity or worse is a lifetime for baseball fans.
 

TFisNEXT

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You guys act like Yankee fans never knew about losing until 2004. The younger ones who came of age in the mid-1990s fit that description but older folks can tell you about 1965-75 and 1982-92. A decade of mediocrity or worse is a lifetime for baseball fans.
The Yankees weren't finding new and excruciating ways to lose in the playoffs (or play-in game ala '78) that the Red Sox did in the midst of an epic World Series championship drought....'67, '75, '78, '86, etc. If the Red Sox were just mediocre the whole time with a few unmemorable playoff exits, we'd be the pre-2011 Texas Rangers.

The pre-2004 Yankee fan also never had to deal with defeat when the games mattered most against their archrivals like the Red Sox did multiple times.

Yankees did have an excruciating loss in 1995 to the Mariners in the ALDS fueled by Buck's blunder to pitch Wetteland over Rivera...so I'll give them that...but it was immediately followed up by 3 WS titles in 4 years.
 

terrynever

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The Yankees weren't finding new and excruciating ways to lose in the playoffs (or play-in game ala '78) that the Red Sox did in the midst of an epic World Series championship drought....'67, '75, '78, '86, etc. If the Red Sox were just mediocre the whole time with a few unmemorable playoff exits, we'd be the pre-2011 Texas Rangers.

The pre-2004 Yankee fan also never had to deal with defeat when the games mattered most against their archrivals like the Red Sox did multiple times.

Yankees did have an excruciating loss in 1995 to the Mariners in the ALDS fueled by Buck's blunder to pitch Wetteland over Rivera...so I'll give them that...but it was immediately followed up by 3 WS titles in 4 years.
The Yankees know about excruciating losses, too. The 1960 World Series loss was incredible because the lowly Pirates were outscored 55-27 and still prevailed. 1955, my first series, gave Brooklyn its only World Series win and allowed the whole country to rejoice. 1964 in 7 games to Bob Gibson's Cardinals was a great competition that ended badly for the pnstripes.
2001 turned into a nightmare but clearly Arizona was the better team. 2004 hurt badly for so many reasons. Stuff like this year hardly makes a dent because Boston was better since July 4. True baseball fans get to watch an epic LCS. What's wrong with that? Nothing. Let either the Sox or Astros face up to an excruciating loss. Yankee fans can only watch. Way less stress.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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...A decade of mediocrity or worse is a lifetime for baseball fans.
This describes virtually all MLB teams and fan bases, and the vast majority have experienced far worse than a mere, occasional decade of mediocrity. The real difference is that there isn't a single generation of fans that hasn't seen the Yankees win one (really, multiple) titles since they started winning in '23. No other franchise can say this (St. Louis comes pretty close, but had a "whopping" 24 year gap between '82 and '06).

In the last century, NY's been in 40% of the World Series, winning 2/3 of them. Yeah, they lost 13 times. I guess Yankee fans could call some of those "excruciating," taken out of any context. But c'mon. They've lost more Series than any other club has won. Too often, the Sox had a front row seat to New York's title paths.

So yeah, erasing the doormat label in dramatic fashion makes 2004 stand out for both franchises.
 
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Did anyone notice if Pearce was holding Judge at first in the ninth? And if he wasn't, does he get to Gregorius's ground ball single?
I was at the game with an excellent vantage point (1st row, section 218B between home and 1st) and I was extremely surprised that Pearce was holding Judge on with a 3-run lead and a dead, pull-hitter at the plate (I made mention of it to the fan sitting next to me). With Kimbrel's lack of command, it seemed even more unnecessary (do you really want a struggling closer worrying about a runner on 1st in that scenario?).

I believe that Pearce would've fielded the grounder had he been positioned as if the bases were empty (whether Kimbrel would've properly covered and an accurate throw made to beat Didi is impossible to know).

As the inning continued to unravel for Kimbrel, I feared it would become a major factor in the outcome. I wished someone in the media had inquired of Cora his rationale for holding Judge in that situation.

Thankfully, it didn't effect the outcome and it may have been the sole faux pas that Cora made in the entire series.
 

joe dokes

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Only part-explanation would be trying to keep the double play in order. Every step Judge takes is about 1/8 of a mile.
I remember reading a book pointing out that the dodgers needlessly held a runner at first that helped lead to Bobby Thomsons HR.
 

TFisNEXT

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The Yankees know about excruciating losses, too. The 1960 World Series loss was incredible because the lowly Pirates were outscored 55-27 and still prevailed. 1955, my first series, gave Brooklyn its only World Series win and allowed the whole country to rejoice. 1964 in 7 games to Bob Gibson's Cardinals was a great competition that ended badly for the pnstripes.
2001 turned into a nightmare but clearly Arizona was the better team. 2004 hurt badly for so many reasons. Stuff like this year hardly makes a dent because Boston was better since July 4. True baseball fans get to watch an epic LCS. What's wrong with that? Nothing. Let either the Sox or Astros face up to an excruciating loss. Yankee fans can only watch. Way less stress.
You're going pretty far back now to 1960. I'm not going to argue against that line of argument if you have been a fan that long. I'll just say if you've been a fan that long, you're bad losses have been well compensated with so many pinnacles...many more than any other team could dream about in their wildest imagination.

My main focus was mostly in the 3 decades between the 1970s and mid 2000s when the 2004 ALCS happened.
 

keninten

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I was at the game with an excellent vantage point (1st row, section 218B between home and 1st) and I was extremely surprised that Pearce was holding Judge on with a 3-run lead and a dead, pull-hitter at the plate (I made mention of it to the fan sitting next to me). With Kimbrel's lack of command, it seemed even more unnecessary (do you really want a struggling closer worrying about a runner on 1st in that scenario?).

I believe that Pearce would've fielded the grounder had he been positioned as if the bases were empty (whether Kimbrel would've properly covered and an accurate throw made to beat Didi is impossible to know).

As the inning continued to unravel for Kimbrel, I feared it would become a major factor in the outcome. I wished someone in the media had inquired of Cora his rationale for holding Judge in that situation.

Thankfully, it didn't effect the outcome and it may have been the sole faux pas that Cora made in the entire series.
Maybe he was guarding the line and just happened to be near 1st base.
 

terrynever

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You're going pretty far back now to 1960. I'm not going to argue against that line of argument if you have been a fan that long. I'll just say if you've been a fan that long, you're bad losses have been well compensated with so many pinnacles...many more than any other team could dream about in their wildest imagination.

My main focus was mostly in the 3 decades between the 1970s and mid 2000s when the 2004 ALCS happened.
2018 is all that matters. Make your own memories, Sox fans. Enjoy the LCS and beat Houston. The Astros are the looming dynasty in baseball, a team we are going to love to hate if they win it all again this year.
 

timlinin8th

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But it's still pretty staggering to realize that that right field fence is at most only slightly further away than Fenway's LF fence at the foul poles (314 vs. 310) -- but with a wall that's 30 feet shorter. Imagine if every fly ball that scraped the Monster just over the left fielder's leap for a double was a dinger. Mitch Moreland would have had 35 home runs last year. Dwight Evans would be in the Hall of Fame.
Even if just comparing RF walls, that the YS wall stays shallow for so long eats up a lot of square footage compared to Fenway. Here is an overlay of a few parks for comparison (and YS and Fenway are pretty prominent here):