Al Horford - the Celtics' Resurrected Saviour of the Season

NomarsFool

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Salary becomes guaranteed if winning the finals is very different than $12 million bonus if they win the Finals, IMO.

I think the likelihood of the Celtics (or anyone else) cutting Horford is next to zero.
 

lexrageorge

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Salary becomes guaranteed if winning the finals is very different than $12 million bonus if they win the Finals, IMO.

I think the likelihood of the Celtics (or anyone else) cutting Horford is next to zero.
Yeah, the tweet is worded poorly, as it implies Horford is making some sort of bonus on this year's contract, which is incorrect.

The partial guarantee for 2022-23 season opened up some interesting possibilities on the trade market for this summer, but would be happy to throw those possibilities out for an appearance in the Finals or a Trophy.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Salary becomes guaranteed if winning the finals is very different than $12 million bonus if they win the Finals, IMO.

I think the likelihood of the Celtics (or anyone else) cutting Horford is next to zero.
Yeah,
JB earned a $482K bonus by making 2nd round.

View: https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1518770381070471169
 

benhogan

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Salary becomes guaranteed if winning the finals is very different than $12 million bonus if they win the Finals, IMO.

I think the likelihood of the Celtics (or anyone else) cutting Horford is next to zero.
Agreed, poorly worded Tweet

Al's health + playoff performance is heading towards extension talks this summer (esp. if they don't make the finals)
 

Seabass

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Al is the reason the C's got past the Bucks and he's the reason they're up 3-2 against the Heat. He does exactly what is needed it when it's needed, and is the steadiest dude out there, all the time.
 

Zososoxfan

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Truly incredible. Best 3PT shooter by a wide margin, defending the best offensive player often, and rebounding too. Tour de force. Al MF Horford!
 

bigq

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In addition to the outstanding box score stats - 12.9 PPG, 9.3 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 0.9 steals, and 1.7 blocks, shooting 54% from the floor, 48% from three and 83% from the charity stripe while playing 36.5 mpg - he is also consistently looking to push the pace on every defensive rebound he gets often bringing the ball up the court himself. There aren’t too many big men in the NBA that can do that. Hope he gets his salary fully guaranteed next year. He will have earned it.
 

Kliq

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In addition to the outstanding box score stats - 12.9 PPG, 9.3 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 0.9 steals, and 1.7 blocks, shooting 54% from the floor, 48% from three and 83% from the charity stripe while playing 36.5 mpg - he is also consistently looking to push the pace on every defensive rebound he gets often bringing the ball up the court himself. There aren’t too many big men in the NBA that can do that. Hope he gets his salary fully guaranteed next year. He will have earned it.
I've noticed when the offense has been struggling, Al has been pulling out these Westbrookian-grab-and-go fast breaks that I had no idea he could do.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Here's a question the Celtics should be considering with Horford.

With OKC, Horford essentially sat from mid-March until the mid-October when the Celtics regular season started. I realize he was also a full particiant in training camp activities, but, essentially, training camp was a way for hom to ramp up to full readiness at the start of the season.

With the Celtics reaching the finals, that cuts 3 months off of the offseason all had last year. Should the Celtics give him back those months? Team staff and his personal training staff could put him on a program that ramps him up to full readiness for NBA in mid January. Or maybe they think he doesn't need all that time and they could target early December or something.

Good idea?
 

NomarsFool

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He has also been logging a lot of minutes. All the top rotation players are going to be exhausted after this run.

I think there is probably a middle ground where you limit his minutes for the first half of season, give him every other game off, etc, and try and limit the wear and tear on his body.
 

Eddie Jurak

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He has also been logging a lot of minutes. All the top rotation players are going to be exhausted after this run.

I think there is probably a middle ground where you limit his minutes for the first half of season, give him every other game off, etc, and try and limit the wear and tear on his body.
Maybe. But I am seriously inclined for Horford to be listed with some sort of injury (I';m sure he's got a couple of real things that could be the basis) after the finals and put on a program that doesn't rush him back. Win, lose, or draw. They need to be careful with the other players, too.
 

lexrageorge

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It wasn't that long ago how we were discussing how Horford's partial guarantee for 2022-23 made for some interesting trade possibilities for the offseason. Never thought at the time of the Kemba/Horford trade we would be rooting for that partial guarantee to become a moot point, but here we are.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Funny, relatedly, that all that movement to get under the luxury tax could become moot too! Though of course, Wyc and company will be thrilled to have to write that check if the $12 mil has to be paid.
 

lexrageorge

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Funny, relatedly, that all that movement to get under the luxury tax could become moot too! Though of course, Wyc and company will be thrilled to have to write that check if the $12 mil has to be paid.
It doesn't affect this season's luxury tax calculations, as these incentives simply guarantee portions of his 2022-23 season.
 

mcpickl

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It wasn't that long ago how we were discussing how Horford's partial guarantee for 2022-23 made for some interesting trade possibilities for the offseason. Never thought at the time of the Kemba/Horford trade we would be rooting for that partial guarantee to become a moot point, but here we are.
We had one idiot on this board that wanted to trade him at the deadline to get off his money for next year.

That idiot was me.

I'm happily stunned he has this much gas left in the tank.

He's been incredible.
 

BigSoxFan

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We had one idiot on this board that wanted to trade him at the deadline to get off his money for next year.

That idiot was me.

I'm happily stunned he has this much gas left in the tank.

He's been incredible.
I think Presti giving him basically half the season off last year is doing wonders for us right now.
 

NYCSox

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So happy for him that he has at last made it to the Finals. Well-deserved and hopefully he can be called NBA champion in two weeks.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Horford holds, but will very soon lose, the record for most NBA postseason games without a finals appearance - 141 games. I'm not sure if that is amog all players or just active ones.

To whom does he pass the torch?

Paul Millsap has 130, but he only played 1 game this year so he may not count as active.

Paul George has 108 playoff games and I think no finals appearance. So I think the torch goes to him.
 
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JCizzle

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Horford holds, but will very soon lose, the record for most NBA postseason games without a finals appearance - 141 games.

To whom does he pass the torch?
Hmm. Did Eric Gordon ever make one? He had a few deep runs with the Rockets. Edit - Millsap per above! Poor Hawks I guess.
 

benhogan

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We had one idiot on this board that wanted to trade him at the deadline to get off his money for next year.

That idiot was me.

I'm happily stunned he has this much gas left in the tank.

He's been incredible.
Yea I was kicking around Horford extension talks, which isn't necessary. Just let next season play out.

Horford has played huge minutes in the playoffs and held up extremely well.

The FINALS have plenty of days off in between games to re-energize. I wouldn't be shocked to see IME aggressively shorten rotations with starters/Grant/White playing all the minutes
 

HowBoutDemSox

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moondog80

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He won’t play in the finals, but Joe Johnson finally gets his ring if the Cs win.
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

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I watch Celtics games, but don't have time to follow other teams, so can someone explain to me--how come the 76es couldn't figure out how to use Horford?

I mean, I hated that he signed there, but I figured he was getting paid for his twilight years and I was glad the C's avoided a big tax bill for a player whose best days were behind him. And the reports were that he was washed. He couldn't hit the three, couldn't play beside Embiid, and was traded (with a first round pick stapled to his big-ass contact) for Danny Green -- Al was a sunk cost exiled to the worst team in the NBA.

Was it as simple as "Embiid and Simmons both play inside so Horford was a bad fit?" Horford's game was not a secret when Philly signed him.
 

Euclis20

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I watch Celtics games, but don't have time to follow other teams, so can someone explain to me--how come the 76es couldn't figure out how to use Horford?

I mean, I hated that he signed there, but I figured he was getting paid for his twilight years and I was glad the C's avoided a big tax bill for a player whose best days were behind him. And the reports were that he was washed. He couldn't hit the three, couldn't play beside Embiid, and was traded (with a first round pick stapled to his big-ass contact) for Danny Green -- Al was a sunk cost exiled to the worst team in the NBA.

Was it as simple as "Embiid and Simmons both play inside so Horford was a bad fit?" Horford's game was not a secret when Philly signed him.
Basically. You can squint and see how it could work out (Both Horford and Embiid are good 3 point shooters, have quick feet and are decent passers, as long as you're comparing them with centers), but ultimately it was just too much beef on the court at the same time. It wasn't just those two and Simmons, it was also Harris - that is a big big team, just a step too slow defensively and a bit too big for offensive spacing. They weren't awful, but it was definitely not an ideal usage for Horford.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I watch Celtics games, but don't have time to follow other teams, so can someone explain to me--how come the 76es couldn't figure out how to use Horford?

I mean, I hated that he signed there, but I figured he was getting paid for his twilight years and I was glad the C's avoided a big tax bill for a player whose best days were behind him. And the reports were that he was washed. He couldn't hit the three, couldn't play beside Embiid, and was traded (with a first round pick stapled to his big-ass contact) for Danny Green -- Al was a sunk cost exiled to the worst team in the NBA.

Was it as simple as "Embiid and Simmons both play inside so Horford was a bad fit?" Horford's game was not a secret when Philly signed him.
During Al's Philly year, Ime Udoka was an assistant coach on the Sixers.

Anyway, Philly's top minutes guys during the Horford year:
1. Tobias Harris, 6'8" PF/SF: 2,469
2. Al Horford, 6'9" PF/C: 2,025
3. Ben Simmons, 6'11" PG: 2,017
4. Josh Richardson, 6'5" SG/SF: 1,693
5. Furkan Korkmaz, 6'7" SG: 1,559
6. Joel Embiid, 7'0" C: 1,506
7. Matisse Thybulle, 6'5" SG: 1,287
8. Mike Scott, 6'7" PF: 1,207
9. Shake Milton, 6'5" SG/PG: 805

When Embiid was healthy, they had to find ways for Harris, Horford, Simmons, and Embiid to all share the floor, which is a lot more height and size than shooting.
 

scottyno

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m0ckduck

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Was it as simple as "Embiid and Simmons both play inside so Horford was a bad fit?" Horford's game was not a secret when Philly signed him.
It was a strange fit at the time. I remember reading a lot of commentary to the effect of "If this works, watch out, because the Sixers will be huge on defense!" But that seems— and seemed at the time— a strangely far-fetched play for a team with two foundational players that had just come within a wacky Kawhi bounce of going to the ECFs. It seemed dubious they didn't take a more conventional approach and spend the money on a more straightforwardly complementary player. Looking at the FA's from that offseason, I'm not sure who that might have been, but .... maybe Harrison Barnes?

You wonder how heavily Horford's performance against the Sixers in 2018 playoffs weighed in their thinking. Like the narrative that Belichick targets players who have killed the Pats...
 

benhogan

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It's neither classy or unclassy. The alternative was to let him walk while still paying him 19.5m which wouldn't make any sense. He'll either be back at 26.5m or used in a trade.
If he suffers a year-end injury at any point between now and Jan'23 the C's are on the hook

At the very least it's nice 6-mth injury insurance for a 36yr old Al.
 

Eddie Jurak

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If he suffers a year-end injury at any point between now and Jan'23 the C's are on the hook

At the very least it's nice 6-mth injury insurance for a 36yr old Al.
They should manage that risk by not bringing him back until Jan 23! OKC style vacation/rehab.
 

JHS

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After winning the title I hope Horford has a long string of “DNP: Old”’s to start next year.
 

moondog80

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I watch Celtics games, but don't have time to follow other teams, so can someone explain to me--how come the 76es couldn't figure out how to use Horford?

I mean, I hated that he signed there, but I figured he was getting paid for his twilight years and I was glad the C's avoided a big tax bill for a player whose best days were behind him. And the reports were that he was washed. He couldn't hit the three, couldn't play beside Embiid, and was traded (with a first round pick stapled to his big-ass contact) for Danny Green -- Al was a sunk cost exiled to the worst team in the NBA.

Was it as simple as "Embiid and Simmons both play inside so Horford was a bad fit?" Horford's game was not a secret when Philly signed him.
My biggest question with Philly is how a team with Embiid, good Ben Simmons, and Jimmy Butler only made it to the second round.
 

NomarsFool

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If he suffers a year-end injury at any point between now and Jan'23 the C's are on the hook
If Al had a significant injury, I think the chances of them cutting him were next to zero. Would just be an incredibly bad look for the organization.
 

benhogan

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If Al had a significant injury, I think the chances of them cutting him were next to zero. Would just be an incredibly bad look for the organization.
I guess that makes sense, that's probably why they are doing him a "solid" now.

Hopefully, it curries them favor with Al's next contract? After watching Al play consistent high-quality minutes all season + his physique/work ethic, he looks to have another couple of years left in the tank.
 
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PedroKsBambino

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My biggest question with Philly is how a team with Embiid, good Ben Simmons, and Jimmy Butler only made it to the second round.
That team really never figured out how to play together....at all. And they did have legit spacing issues on top of that. A lot of talent, but felt more like an all-star team than a coherent roster.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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My biggest question with Philly is how a team with Embiid, good Ben Simmons, and Jimmy Butler only made it to the second round.
They also had JJ Reddick, who shot 39.7% on 3Ps.

Did you ever listen to Butler on Reddick's podcast some time ago? They told some stories about that team and they insinuated about a few others. I think Simmons and Butler did not get along at all. It's almost surprising they placed the eventual champions as closely as they did given that they didn't sound like they were on the same page.