Al Horford - the Celtics' Resurrected Saviour of the Season

E5 Yaz

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lovegtm

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What a ridiculous run from someone his age. He played normal minutes all season, and then had to up those a lot and become a starter in the playoffs.

Teams tried to hunt him in iso, but he was just way too good for the likes of Garland and Luka.
 

Jimbodandy

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What a ridiculous run from someone his age. He played normal minutes all season, and then had to up those a lot and become a starter in the playoffs.

Teams tried to hunt him in iso, but he was just way too good for the likes of Garland and Luka.
Yeah the "Al is going to get killed if teams keep getting him on an island" takes didn't age well.
 

snowmanny

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Jordan Walsh put himself in the middle of every TV shot last night and there he is again...
 

Ed Hillel

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Wasn’t this Lou Merloni? a very below average utility guy on some mediocre red sox teams
Yes. It makes me think of that time Ben Affleck got into the booth for a game in Toronto for some reason and just mercilessly shit on Merloni for like 20 straight minutes. Jerry and Orsillo tried their best to keep it together.
 

InstaFace

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I'm case there was any doubt, the man himself removes it:

View: https://twitter.com/NoaDalzellNBA/status/1804591960512147624

Noa Dalzell
@NoaDalzellNBA

Not sure if people saw this, but Al Horford confirmed to TMZ that he is coming back next season:

"There's no question about it. I don't know why those speculations were out there, that I was, like, retiring. But I'm still playing and I'm very excited for next season."
 

ALiveH

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Al's cap slot could be really valuable but if we let him play it out and retire here then we get nothing out of it. Do you think he'd do us a solid when he's ready to hang it up, by letting us trade him (plus draft assets) for a decent player who can take up his cap slot. Then he could soft quit after that trade (stop playing), sign with us again for the vet minimum and officially retire a celtic on his first day back.
 

Smokey Joe

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Al's cap slot could be really valuable but if we let him play it out and retire here then we get nothing out of it. Do you think he'd do us a solid when he's ready to hang it up, by letting us trade him (plus draft assets) for a decent player who can take up his cap slot. Then he could soft quit after that trade (stop playing), sign with us again for the vet minimum and officially retire a celtic on his first day back.
I believe that the league frowns upon players being traded, cut, and then resigning with the team that just traded them. You would have to get a third team involved.
 

The Mort Report

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Al's cap slot could be really valuable but if we let him play it out and retire here then we get nothing out of it. Do you think he'd do us a solid when he's ready to hang it up, by letting us trade him (plus draft assets) for a decent player who can take up his cap slot. Then he could soft quit after that trade (stop playing), sign with us again for the vet minimum and officially retire a celtic on his first day back.
IIRC Boston is the reason this is not allowed. They traded Gary Payton to ATL in 2005, then ATL waived him and re-signed a week later in Boston. I'm fairly certain the NBA put in a rule due to that exact instance that the player has to move to a third team before this can happen, and a 3 way trade wouldn't cut it.

Either way, why would we ever do that to Al? Even if he agreed and the team made it work through handshake deals, do you really want to destroy his reputation to get another player making $10 million? If they raise another banner or two with him, he's got a shot at the hall, but I'd bet a lot of voters would blackball him for doing something like that. Even still, I know Al and the Cs are smart enough to know this and would never consider it. He's probably the most valuable non-rookie scale $10 mil in the league. Give him the Tim Wakefield unlimited $10 player options until he wants to retire

edit as @InstaFace points out, I misread your post @ALiveH, my bad. Still want him on the Wakefield plan though!
 
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InstaFace

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You guys are responding to something ALiveH didn't suggest. He didn't suggest Al be traded, cut, and re-sign with the Celtics to continue playing. He suggested a 1-day "retire as a Celtic" thing. I'm sure the league doesn't care about basically a ceremonial act, they care if he's going to actually keep playing and it becomes a competitive-balance matter. Shit, for ceremonial purposes, there doesn't even have to be an official contract, they can just honor him before a game and say whatever they want. Who cares.

The question was about whether Al can indicate an interest in retiring, be traded, and have the receiving team basically take his retirement intentions as part of what they're getting, so they understand that he's not going to play much and will just ride out the rest of the season and retire, probably saving them some money. There are certain CBA provisions that address retirement-related shenanigans, covered here.
 

Euclis20

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all that retirement talk was silly, watching Playoff Al probably has Brad thinking extension
Yeah, other than his age, it didn't seem to come from anywhere:

-He's signed for another year.
-He started 48 games this year and played 30 mpg in the playoffs.
-He's said he wants to play until he can't anymore, or at least until he's a drag on a team.
 

Montana Fan

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all that retirement talk was silly, watching Playoff Al probably has Brad thinking extension
The perpetual Wakefield deal. $10 million per year until you decide you’re done. (Yes, I know Wake wasn’t on a $10 mil/deal)

Also, Wyc announced the morning after Game 5 that Al would be returning.
 

ALiveH

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He was so durable this year and performed at such a high level on an affordable contract that I would 100% have him back for the 2025 title run, probably reduce his minutes by 10-20% to try to preserve him. But, I expect him to show signs of drop off at some point in the next few years, and when that happens I think they gotta try to trade that contract w/ draft assets to try to get a good replacement player. Hopefully he plays along with the trade as one last solid for the celtics.
 

NomarsFool

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After next season he’s an UFA, right? And he’s on a pretty low cost deal now. I don’t think there’s a high likelihood he could be traded for any kind of meaningful player.
 

ALiveH

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After next season he’s an UFA, right? And he’s on a pretty low cost deal now. I don’t think there’s a high likelihood he could be traded for any kind of meaningful player.
Al can do the org a solid by resigning here so we can use the salary slot in a trade. If it's another 2-year deal, it will similarly be "low cost" because he's really old so he could fall off a cliff any minute.

Just look at how Brad acquired Brogden, Holiday, Derrick White or Porzingis. All he had to do was attach draft capital to get more talent coming in than he sent out.
 

chilidawg

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Al can do the org a solid by resigning here so we can use the salary slot in a trade. If it's another 2-year deal, it will similarly be "low cost" because he's really old so he could fall off a cliff any minute.

Just look at how Brad acquired Brogden, Holiday, Derrick White or Porzingis. All he had to do was attach draft capital to get more talent coming in than he sent out.
We're not trading Al MFing Horford. Have you no sense of what he meant to this team?
 

benhogan

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We're not trading Al MFing Horford. Have you no sense of what he meant to this team?
not to speak for @ALiveH but I think he's saying once Al decides he is going to retire
- Brad signs Horford for 1yr for $10M
- Brad deals Horford + picks for a $10MM player
- Al takes a buyout from his new team
- Celtics retain salary slot with new player

I don't think the Celtics would do it because the tax will be so onerous that they may want some salary relief
 

ALiveH

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not to speak for @ALiveH but I think he's saying once Al decides he is going to retire
- Brad signs Horford for 1yr for $10M
- Brad deals Horford + picks for a $10MM player
- Al takes a buyout from his new team
- Celtics retain salary slot with new player

I don't think the Celtics would do it because the tax will be so onerous that they may want some salary relief
Yes, that was my thought process. I had assumed ownership just continues to keep paying whatever it takes as long as we're competing for championships, though maybe they will want some salary relief if the numbers get too crazy. The new media deal and 10% annual increases in salary cap help, but might not be enough relief.
 

Manzivino

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Yes, that was my thought process. I had assumed ownership just continues to keep paying whatever it takes as long as we're competing for championships, though maybe they will want some salary relief if the numbers get too crazy. The new media deal and 10% annual increases in salary cap help, but might not be enough relief.
Second apron teams can’t sign and trade players for other players.
 

benhogan

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Yes, that was my thought process. I had assumed ownership just continues to keep paying whatever it takes as long as we're competing for championships, though maybe they will want some salary relief if the numbers get too crazy. The new media deal and 10% annual increases in salary cap help, but might not be enough relief.
That's fair.

I'd guess Zarren & Glushon have been discussing this.

The buyout would be a nice little going-away gift & lessen the dollar cost for the acquiring team.

IMO if they continue to manage his GP/minutes, Al has more than a year left of positive impact (esp. at $10M).

His ability to guard Embiid/Joker, while spreading the floor on offense is immensely valuable
 

NomarsFool

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I’m still skeptical. This seems like the sort of shenanigans the league would frown upon. I don’t see a particularly valuable player fitting into Horford’s salary slot, and then you also have to compensate the other team for the cost of the buyout as well. Maybe you pre negotiate the buyout so it’s $0.10 on the dollar with Al, but again, this seems either forbidden by current rules or soon to be forbidden if it’s not already.
 

lexrageorge

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I’m still skeptical. This seems like the sort of shenanigans the league would frown upon. I don’t see a particularly valuable player fitting into Horford’s salary slot, and then you also have to compensate the other team for the cost of the buyout as well. Maybe you pre negotiate the buyout so it’s $0.10 on the dollar with Al, but again, this seems either forbidden by current rules or soon to be forbidden if it’s not already.
There's nothing to prevent a team from buying out a player they receive in a trade. And Al would not need to file his retirement papers with the league right away.

The biggest issue, as you stated, is that the Celtics would need to staple some sort of asset to Al in order to get someone back, and that someone may not be all that useful. May require a 3rd or 4th team to get involved. And there are the usual restrictions on sign-and-trade that make those difficult to pull off.

The only thing that the league would come down on is if the Celtics made some sort of "wink-wink" agreement with Al that he demands a buyout as soon as he is traded. Or the Celtics make the trade with the 2 teams secretly agreeing to a buyout. But there's no real incentive for any of the parties to do that.
 

Ferm Sheller

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Pretty weird to see Gerald Henderson, Brad Lohaus, and Fred Roberts all on a roster that isn't the Cs.
Where's Jack Sikma? He was on that team. I think I recall that he was always awesome when they played the Cs (usually in a losing effort, though).
 

NomarsFool

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There's nothing to prevent a team from buying out a player they receive in a trade. And Al would not need to file his retirement papers with the league right away.

The biggest issue, as you stated, is that the Celtics would need to staple some sort of asset to Al in order to get someone back, and that someone may not be all that useful. May require a 3rd or 4th team to get involved. And there are the usual restrictions on sign-and-trade that make those difficult to pull off.

The only thing that the league would come down on is if the Celtics made some sort of "wink-wink" agreement with Al that he demands a buyout as soon as he is traded. Or the Celtics make the trade with the 2 teams secretly agreeing to a buyout. But there's no real incentive for any of the parties to do that.
But, that is exactly what we are talking about. As long as Al wants to keep playing, the Celtics will want him to play for them. The discussion was around whether the Celtics can cheat the system and keep his salary slot, even though he is retiring. That would require compensating the acquiring team for the asset, and compensating them for buying out Al. AND such player has to equal Al’s $10 million salary. Doesn’t seem likely to me.