Al Horford - the Celtics' Resurrected Saviour of the Season

Kliq

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Al doing the poster, talking shit, and Pritchard being the one to chest bump him was exhilarating and hilarious. I have already watched it about 20 times.
 

TripleOT

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So the player that was salary ballast in a salary dump just put it to Giannis in a remarkable performance. Maybe he’s paying back the Bucks for not retaining his father after his rookie deal expired.

Thing I just learned recently: Tito Horford was a Celtic in training camp in 1995.
 

joe dokes

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Al's shot to GIannis's face was as close as we're gonna get to a Rambis in 2022.
 

OnTheBlack

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Listening to him on the postgame now. He is so grateful for the opportunity. He’s so motivated to finally win a ring and if that raises his game during the playoffs like we are seeing then it raises the ceiling of the Celtics. Would love to see him get a ring.
 

tbb345

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He also confirmed that Giannis’s mean mug pissed him off and flipped a switch for him. That dunk must have been incredibly sweet for him
 

Jimbodandy

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So the player that was salary ballast in a salary dump just put it to Giannis in a remarkable performance. Maybe he’s paying back the Bucks for not retaining his father after his rookie deal expired.

Thing I just learned recently: Tito Horford was a Celtic in training camp in 1995.
If he couldn't crack that abysmal team, he must have seen the writing then. Lot of fun guys worth cheering for, but couldn't defend the famous wooden chair.
 

bigq

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So the player that was salary ballast in a salary dump just put it to Giannis in a remarkable performance. Maybe he’s paying back the Bucks for not retaining his father after his rookie deal expired.

Thing I just learned recently: Tito Horford was a Celtic in training camp in 1995.
The 95-96 Celtics team was not good. Maybe he should have stuck around.
 

TripleOT

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The 95-96 Celtics team was not good. Maybe he should have stuck around.
Apparently, he was beaten out by Charles Claxton (Nic Claxton’s father), whose NBA career lasted three games. Later in the season, they acquired Thomas Hamilton, who must have weighed 400 pounds. ML Carr was the general manager and coach
 

scottyno

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Apparently, he was beaten out by Charles Claxton (Nic Claxton’s father), whose NBA career lasted three games. Later in the season, they acquired Thomas Hamilton, who must have weighed 400 pounds. ML Carr was the general manager and coach
Hamilton's finest moment as a Celtic was picking up 4 fouls in 6 minutes of garbage time in a game where the the Cs beat the Raptors by 28, but AC Earl scored 40 against the Cs a year after they'd got rid of him because he sucked. I had no memory of Earl scoring 40 until I looked it up recently, but I remembered Hamilton's 4 fouls from being at that game as a kid.
 

k-factory

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Al has logged 36, 37, 39 and now 41 minutes in this series. Trending up but understandable against the trees of Milwaukee.
Against the Nets - 41, 32, 28, 25

In that first Nets game if you remember he was instrumental in setting the tone. A 20/15 effort and some pretty spry run-outs.

He’s really been the heart and soul of this team, setting the tone for resilience and is arguably their MVP so far. No better role model for the J’s in this playoff run. If a 35 year old has no quit, can body up with the toughest player in the league and log major minutes while doing so that just sets a really high bar for the younger C’s. This is some historic shit we are watching.
 

bigq

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Apparently, he was beaten out by Charles Claxton (Nic Claxton’s father), whose NBA career lasted three games. Later in the season, they acquired Thomas Hamilton, who must have weighed 400 pounds. ML Carr was the general manager and coach
Yeah Tito didn't catch on with any other teams that year and in fact his last game played in the NBA was on 11/10/93. I guess Tito would not have done much to help that hapless Celtics squad.
 

Bleedred

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What can we expect from Al on Wednesday night, with only 1 full day of rest and expending the kind of physical and emotional energy like he did last night? If Rob is not back, it's going to be a challenge, as I don't think Al is going to have as much in the tank (how can he?) and Theis is clearly a terrible match up with the Bucks.
 

128

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What can we expect from Al on Wednesday night, with only 1 full day of rest and expending the kind of physical and emotional energy like he did last night? If Rob is not back, it's going to be a challenge, as I don't think Al is going to have as much in the tank (how can he?) and Theis is clearly a terrible match up with the Bucks.
By no means is Theis is a good matchup against the Bucks, but he can play a lot better than he did last nite.
 

bigq

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What can we expect from Al on Wednesday night, with only 1 full day of rest and expending the kind of physical and emotional energy like he did last night? If Rob is not back, it's going to be a challenge, as I don't think Al is going to have as much in the tank (how can he?) and Theis is clearly a terrible match up with the Bucks.
Thought I saw somewhere that Rob Williams is expected to be available for Game 5.
 

chilidawg

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What can we expect from Al on Wednesday night, with only 1 full day of rest and expending the kind of physical and emotional energy like he did last night? If Rob is not back, it's going to be a challenge, as I don't think Al is going to have as much in the tank (how can he?) and Theis is clearly a terrible match up with the Bucks.
Al will be ready for a full fucking 48 if that what it takes.
 

Swedgin

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Al will be ready for a full fucking 48 if that what it takes.
I am sure he wants to be, but that's not realistic. Plenty of ex-players have talked about the impact of aging on their games. They tend to sing the same tune. They can still reach the same highs, but they can no longer do so as often. That extra gear that used to be there all the time, is sometimes missing. On top of that the recovery period is longer, the body does not bounce back they way it did in their prime.

I love Al, but we should not be counting on a repeat performance of the last two games on Wednesday.
 

joe dokes

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What can we expect from Al on Wednesday night, with only 1 full day of rest and expending the kind of physical and emotional energy like he did last night? If Rob is not back, it's going to be a challenge, as I don't think Al is going to have as much in the tank (how can he?) and Theis is clearly a terrible match up with the Bucks.
I think his defense will remain top-notch. I suspect that he will drive less and otherwise keep his game to 75-80 feet instead of 94.
 

Kliq

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If Grant can be "Home Cooking" Grant, and TL can play with no minutes limit, Ime should be able to get Al back down to 32-35 minutes.

Grant 3P Home: 8/13 .615
Grant 3P Away: 2/11 .181
Yup, Grant is a classic kind of role player that is going to play better at home than he is on the road; I expect much better from him in Game 5 than what we saw in Milwaukee.
 

TripleOT

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What can we expect from Al on Wednesday night, with only 1 full day of rest and expending the kind of physical and emotional energy like he did last night? If Rob is not back, it's going to be a challenge, as I don't think Al is going to have as much in the tank (how can he?) and Theis is clearly a terrible match up with the Bucks.
AL turned an all time performance in 41 minutes, a mere 48 hours after 39 quality minutes in game 3. Why won’t he be able to do the same thing in game five, which is like 45 hours from the end of game 4? Maybe we should be asking how Giannis is going to be able to recover so quickly after being so tired after being ridden so hard in games three and four.

Giannis
Game 1, 9-25, 24 points.
Game 2, 11-27, 28 points
Game 3, 16-30, 42 points.
Game 4 14-32, 34 points

50-114, 128 points

AL

Game 1, 4-11, 12 points
Game 2, 4-9, 11 points
Game 3, 9-17, 22 points
Game 4, 11-14, 30 points

28-52, 75 points
 

TFisNEXT

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Speaking to the future of Horford....

Al's defense is so good that I think they could basically pull what Doc Rivers did with KG after his 2009 knee injury in his final 3-4 seasons with the C's.....limit his minutes to 29-31 per game and keep him fresh and playing at a high level on defense like KG was able to do and if he can still chip in 10-14 points on top of that, all the better.
 

dhellers

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Yup, Grant is a classic kind of role player that is going to play better at home than he is on the road; I expect much better from him in Game 5 than what we saw in Milwaukee.
This. If Al can be good, and the GW and PP can hit their open shots, that should be enough. Assuming that the Jays turn in a typical Jays performance (not necessarily a spectacular one).

IOW: a lot of pathways for the Celts to win, while the Bucks have fewer options. One of them is GA scoring 50 points, which is possible but not so easy.
 

Euclis20

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AL turned an all time performance in 41 minutes, a mere 48 hours after 39 quality minutes in game 3. Why won’t he be able to do the same thing in game five, which is like 45 hours from the end of game 4? Maybe we should be asking how Giannis is going to be able to recover so quickly after being so tired after being ridden so hard in games three and four.

Giannis
Game 1, 9-25, 24 points.
Game 2, 11-27, 28 points
Game 3, 16-30, 42 points.
Game 4 14-32, 34 points

50-114, 128 points

AL

Game 1, 4-11, 12 points
Game 2, 4-9, 11 points
Game 3, 9-17, 22 points
Game 4, 11-14, 30 points

28-52, 75 points
Not just Giannis, how about Holiday? He turns 32 in June and he's averaging 40 minutes and 21.3 ppg this series, but is shooting just .337 from the floor. Seems like he could use a rest.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Speaking to the future of Horford....

Al's defense is so good that I think they could basically pull what Doc Rivers did with KG after his 2009 knee injury in his final 3-4 seasons with the C's.....limit his minutes to 29-31 per game and keep him fresh and playing at a high level on defense like KG was able to do and if he can still chip in 10-14 points on top of that, all the better.
That's more or less the plan he is on:

Reg season: 69 games, 29.1 minutes, 10.2 points, 7.7 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 0.7 steals, 1.3 blocks, 0.9 turnovers

Playoffs (so far): 8 games, 35.3 minutes, 15.9 points, 9.4 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.0 steal, 1.1 blocks, 0.9 turnovers

I think you just keep him at his contract figure for next year (and try to work out an extension that works for everyone).
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Al's deal is going to become fully guaranteed when the C's win the Finals anyway, might as well keep him at that number and let POBOBS make some savvy moves around the edges of the roster with the remaining TPEs, fringe pieces, and draft picks.
 

JakeRae

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That's more or less the plan he is on:

Reg season: 69 games, 29.1 minutes, 10.2 points, 7.7 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 0.7 steals, 1.3 blocks, 0.9 turnovers

Playoffs (so far): 8 games, 35.3 minutes, 15.9 points, 9.4 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 1.0 steal, 1.1 blocks, 0.9 turnovers

I think you just keep him at his contract figure for next year (and try to work out an extension that works for everyone).
Any extension would be tied to his contract next year, so it has to start around $21 million or higher (if I’m doing the math right and with the caveat that I don’t know how the extension rules apply to any non-guaranteed portion of his contract, which we all hope doesn’t exist). That’s probably a bit high for an extension for Horford. I’d think, particularly after opting for the money last time and later coming to regret it, he’ll be open to a below market deal that keeps him in Boston for the run this core is going to have. (As an aside, I’m generally skeptical of the idea that players will sign for meaningful discounts but think this is a fairly unique circumstance.). That’s more likely to happen once he’s a FA since I’m guessing that deal is more in the 3/45 space than 3/60.
 

Swedgin

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Any extension would be tied to his contract next year, so it has to start around $21 million or higher (if I’m doing the math right and with the caveat that I don’t know how the extension rules apply to any non-guaranteed portion of his contract, which we all hope doesn’t exist). That’s probably a bit high for an extension for Horford. I’d think, particularly after opting for the money last time and later coming to regret it, he’ll be open to a below market deal that keeps him in Boston for the run this core is going to have. (As an aside, I’m generally skeptical of the idea that players will sign for meaningful discounts but think this is a fairly unique circumstance.). That’s more likely to happen once he’s a FA since I’m guessing that deal is more in the 3/45 space than 3/60.
Looked quickly at the CBA, and I don't think it matter where it is guaranteed or not. The 8% rule s in relation to a player's Salary (a defined term in the CBA). The definition of Salary references Compensation.

Compensation is defined as "the compensation that is or could be earned by, or is paid or payable to, an NBA player (including players 2 Article I whose Player Contracts have been terminated) in accordance with a Player Contract (whether such payment is sent to the player directly or to a person or entity designated by a player)." (emphasis added)
 

NomarsFool

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So, does that mean that maximum, Horford can only accept a 8% decrease in his salary (per year) from the Celtics? If so, he’s gone after next season at the latest. He will sign a contract with someone else for a much lower number, sadly.
 

JakeRae

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So, does that mean that maximum, Horford can only accept a 8% decrease in his salary (per year) from the Celtics? If so, he’s gone after next season at the latest. He will sign a contract with someone else for a much lower number, sadly.
I looked this up and I think I had the rule wrong. There is a 20% cap on how much salary can increase from current contract to the first year of the extension. I had thought there was a corresponding limit on decreases but I don’t think there is. There is a general 8% limit on year-to-year decreases during a contract. I don’t think that would apply to the transition to the first year of the extension, but if it does it would be extremely limiting.

Either way, none of this limits what we could sign Horford to in a year, it just might limit what we could offer in an extension this offseason. There is no world where the Celtics are limited as against what other teams can do.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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I thought the 8% rule was with respect to how much the salary could go up or down from the previous year of the same contract, not a measure of how the extension can vary from the existing/previous contract. Here’s the CBA FAQ on what you can offer for an extension:
The salary in the first year of a veteran extension may be any amount up to 120% of the player's previous salary, or 120% of the estimated average salary (see question number 31), whichever is greater, but no more than the player's maximum salary in that season (i.e., the maximum salary the player can receive if he were to sign a new contract that year as a free agent -- see question number 23).

Since the maximum salaries for an upcoming season are not known at the time the extension is signed, it is possible that the extension will specify a salary that is greater than the maximum salary. If this happens, the salaries in the extension are amended downward once the maximum salaries are defined.

Raises in each year of a veteran extension are limited to 8% of the salary in the first year of the extension. If the salary in the first year of the extension is amended downward, the salaries in all subsequent season are amended as well. If the contract being extended contained bonuses, then the extension must contain the same bonuses -- teams can increase or decrease the bonus amounts by up to 8%, but they can't leave them off or add new ones.
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q58
 

nighthob

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What can we expect from Al on Wednesday night, with only 1 full day of rest and expending the kind of physical and emotional energy like he did last night?
Seeing a title within his grasp? You can expect him to put Giannis on a poster again. Book it.