Al Horford: he gawn

luckiestman

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E5 Yaz

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Damn, if they could keep Horford after all of this, and get Walker, that would be swell
 

lovegtm

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Yeah, all these ideas seem way too complicated to work out.
The thing is, Charlotte, Boston, and Rozier are all very motivated, which helps a ton. Charlotte doesn't want to lose Kemba for nothing, Boston wants Horford, and Rozier wants to get paid asap while getting a starting job.
 

Cellar-Door

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Someone needs to explain how this would work.
The best explanation I have seen is that it involves at least 4 teams, probably a Kyrie S&T AND a Rozier S&T (though maybe a Morris S&T could work), and it would be involve at least 7 or 8 parties agreeing between teams, players, etc.
 

lovegtm

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Yeah. For us.

But I wonder if there's a way.
Off the top of my head, it probably starts with the Celtics re-signing Horford and operating over the cap. Then you send Rozier to Charlotte, along with 2 years of re-signed Mook? Still not close on money, especially since I think Mook and Rozier both have the weird matching rules. Throwing Smart in seems like a lot just to make money work, but keeping Horford is insanely valuable.
 

bigq

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I don’t know how Al coming back to the Celtics could work but if it does the Celtics would be a force in the East.
 

DJnVa

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The best explanation I have seen is that it involves at least 4 teams, probably a Kyrie S&T AND a Rozier S&T (though maybe a Morris S&T could work), and it would be involve at least 7 or 8 parties agreeing between teams, players, etc.
25024
 

lovegtm

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Twitter seems to think that the most likely path is getting Nets to do S&T for Kyrie, and someone else to do S&T for Rozier, and make it a 4-teamer? Cs would definitely have to give up decent draft assets to make those happen.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Twitter seems to think that the most likely path is getting Nets to do S&T for Kyrie, and someone else to do S&T for Rozier, and make it a 4-teamer? Cs would definitely have to give up decent draft assets to make those happen.
This would seem to open up some doors by not relying only on Charlotte as the Suns and Knicks are still wanting Rozier. I am giddy!! This is a done deal, isn't it?
 

the moops

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Isn't the simplest way just a three team between BRK, BOS, and CHA? Kemba signed and traded to BOS, Kyrie signed and traded to BRK, and BOS sends something of value to both teams for their trouble? Horford re-signs first and BOS stays over the cap.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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https://twitter.com/StoolGreenie/status/1145364139507965954?s=20
Greenberg from Barstool raises an interesting question: Would you give up the MEM pick of it meant the ability to bring back Al Horford?

I don't know the answer to this because the pick is obviously very valuable. That said, its return has a massively high variance whereas its much easier to quantify Horford's value, even building in age-related decline.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Isn't the simplest way just a three team between BRK, BOS, and CHA? Kemba signed and traded to BOS, Kyrie signed and traded to BRK, and BOS sends something of value to both teams for their trouble? Horford re-signs first and BOS stays over the cap.
How much salary would have to come in the form or Rozier's contract? The Knicks may be willing to go higher on a shorter deal but the reality is that Rozier has us by the absolute balls since he is the player who has multiple suitors and the only one we can deal with is the one he chooses.

My head hurts already.
 

lovegtm

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https://twitter.com/StoolGreenie/status/1145364139507965954?s=20
Greenberg from Barstool raises an interesting question: Would you give up the MEM pick of it meant the ability to bring back Al Horford?

I don't know the answer to this because the pick is obviously very valuable. That said, its return has a massively high variance whereas its much easier to quantify Horford's value, even building in age-related decline.
I'd keep it--the team isn't good enough to want the lower variance, even with Horford (and especially taking into account age-related decline).
 

DJnVa

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https://twitter.com/AlbertNahmad/status/1145361644329062402?s=20
From Albert Nahmad: If Celtics can (i) convince Nets to take in Kyrie Irving via S&T and (ii) convince a suitor to take Terry Rozier into room via S&T, they could potentially acquire Kemba Walker at $32.7M max in a 3-team trade AND keep free agent rights to everyone (Al Horford, Marcus Morris, etc).
Why would Nets do this? What could we offer them that would make them feel better about helping the Celtics and, at this point, why would Kyrie do it?
 

lovegtm

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If Danny pulls this off, Danny is the greatest poker player alive.

Keeping Horford makes the Celtics a viable Finals contender assuming Kawhi leaves Toronto.
It's pretty hilarious, since we'd be talking about the same team as last year (with Kyrie spelling Kemba). I understand the Js are older, Hayward would be healthier, but still quite amusing.
 

DJnVa

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Kings are on hold if HOU needs a trade partner for Capela per Sam Amick...
 

PedroKsBambino

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I wouldn't put it past Ainge to have a Horford plan worked out, but it seems quite unlikely given all the cap gymnastics involved.
Ironically, including one of this year's number ones for each to do so would get it done---but probably not now that the picks are players rather than picks.

Is a 2 enough? Feels iffy to me. But not a no--it's a free asset for each team.
 

lovegtm

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I wouldn't put it past Ainge to have a Horford plan worked out, but it seems quite unlikely given all the cap gymnastics involved.


Ironically, including one of this year's number ones for each to do so would get it done---but probably not now that the picks are players rather than picks.

Is a 2 enough? Feels iffy to me. But not a no--it's a free asset for each team.
I mean, they still have some value as players not picks, so it's not crazy. Agree it's more likely to be a future asset though.
 

DJnVa

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https://twitter.com/AlbertNahmad/status/1145361644329062402?s=20
From Albert Nahmad: If Celtics can (i) convince Nets to take in Kyrie Irving via S&T and (ii) convince a suitor to take Terry Rozier into room via S&T, they could potentially acquire Kemba Walker at $32.7M max in a 3-team trade AND keep free agent rights to everyone (Al Horford, Marcus Morris, etc).
Twitter reports that Charlotte wants Rozier and he's talking with them when FA begins.
 

Cellar-Door

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Ok, so here is Keith Smith on the S&T route:
https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1145395204981231623
He also notes that the other (even less likely) route is to clear the cap space, sign Kemba then trade players (almost has to be Hayward) to create space.

I think the likeliest outcome is Al signs elsewhere, getting a 3-4 team sign and trade deal together, when at least 1 if not 2 of the teams has no real incentive to do it is gonna be tough.
 

E5 Yaz

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https://twitter.com/StoolGreenie/status/1145364139507965954?s=20
Greenberg from Barstool raises an interesting question: Would you give up the MEM pick of it meant the ability to bring back Al Horford?

I don't know the answer to this because the pick is obviously very valuable. That said, its return has a massively high variance whereas its much easier to quantify Horford's value, even building in age-related decline.
I think I'd do it. The window is open now, before Brown and/or Tatum skedaddle
 

lovegtm

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yeah, this is clearly not my strongsuit
All good, welcome to the wonderful world of offseason NBA! Anyway, simplified version is that the Celtics can match any contract offer made to Brown or Tatum when they hit FA.
 

DJnVa

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I wouldn't put it past Ainge to have a Horford plan worked out, but it seems quite unlikely given all the cap gymnastics involved.


Ironically, including one of this year's number ones for each to do so would get it done---but probably not now that the picks are players rather than picks.

Is a 2 enough? Feels iffy to me. But not a no--it's a free asset for each team.
We did pick up that extra pick from Milwaukee that can be used...
 

nighthob

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What would that even look like? It's hard to come up with workable scenarios that don't involve Mook and Terry.
The easiest route is to get Brooklyn to participate for a free first round pick. And if the alternative is Horford in Philly they might be more inclined to play along. Aside from that they still technically have Baynes, Theis, and Yabusele to play with. Or maybe the Knicks panic and decide to throw a giant offer Rozier’s way and his outgoing rights in the ensuing sign & trade are worth $12 million, which makes the end line easier.