Aaron Hernandez: eating bugs not steaks

[ronlt40]

 
Do you have to call "not it" to get out of doodie strainer duty?

You'd think a new guy would do it but it's actually a jail investigator.  Its a good news/bad news situation. Good news: You're an investigator which is a jail equivalent of a detective and comes with some nice perks. Bad news: you may on occasion have to search somebody's poop for a balloon filled with drugs.

 

[Montana Fan]

I work in a jail. Almost all inmates lose weight. unless they were skinny to begin with or were drug abusers. the drug abusers gain weight. 

Which is supposedly where the baggy clothing style came from.

edit: As in, when a fella got out of jail they looked their best and the clothes they wore in were now baggy on them.

 

[Old Fart Tree]

My friends and I took a handgun marksmanship class with the SWAT trainer for San Quentin, and it was just the three of us plus four other San Q guards taking the course. They were talking about someone who "kiestered" a weapon to murder some famous inmate a few years back, and then one topped it saying that they found in a woman's hoo-hah (might have been at another prison, not sure there's a woman's wing at San Q) NINE improvised knives, the longest of which was nearly a foot long. We were pretty blown away. Who knows if they were exaggerating though.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Jesse Grossi ‏@producerjesse 1m
Aaron Hernandez Indicted in Connection to Jailhouse Incidents
 

 

[RedOctober3829]

Ted Daniel ‏@TedDanielFOX25 1m
BREAKING/EXCLUSIVE: New Hernandez double mx indictment from drive-by shooting in Boston's South End #fox25
 

 

[DJnVa]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2014/05/15/reports-aaron-hernandez-indicted-for-double-murder/pjtncFf6Wn6EWEM8hLoxyM/story.html
 

Former New England Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez has been indicted by a grand jury on charges related to his role in July 2012 double murder in Boston’s South End, according to multiple news outlets.

 

[Revkeith]

Forgive me for seemingly putting trivial things above the loss of human life, but doesn't this mean the Patriots may get cap relief from Hernandez's contract? Since he seemingly had involvement in a homicide before he signed the contract?

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

I believe he has to be convicted first.
 
If so, they won't be seeing any cap relief for quite some time.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Man, the 2017 offseason is shaping up to be a big one. Brady off the books, potential Hernandez cap relief. Johnny Football, here we come!

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

Does this mean we have to give back the AFC runner-up trophy?

https://twitter.com/bostonglobe/status/466960041174892546

 

[EddieYost]

Take down the banner posthaste.

 

[Ed Hillel]

I believe he has to be convicted first.
 
If so, they won't be seeing any cap relief for quite some time.

 
I remember reading about all of this earlier, and I still don't quite understand it. What would they be getting cap relief from? He played for them in 2012-2013, so I'm not seeing how you can both get his on-field production and then later get that money back as cap relief. Would they get the entire 7 million back for 2013-2014, instead of the chunk that's unpaid? I thought the rules stated you could only get cap relief for money you can physically get back in your pockets or you haven't handed over. I'm afraid that money is gone regardless.
 

I think it's worth noting that we haven't made a SB since we had a murderer on the team.

 
You don't know that. At least not the second part.

 

[smastroyin]

I wonder how solid the evidence is?  How hard do the criminal people think it would be to get this indictment?  Would similar KA's be enough to go with the spotty eyewitness accounts and build a case?  Or can we presume they have more?

 

[steveluck7]

 
I remember reading about all of this earlier, and I still don't quite understand it. What would they be getting cap relief from? He played for them in 2012-2013, so I'm not seeing how you can both get his on-field production and then later get that money back as cap relief. Would they get the entire 7 million back for 2013-2014, instead of the chunk that's unpaid? I thought the rules stated you could only get cap relief for money you can physically get back in your pockets or you haven't handed over. I'm afraid that money is gone regardless.
 
 
 

I know he ahd some bonus $$ due on 3/31 that i hope they withheld so maybe they get that room back? Plus, didn't he still have some guaranteed $$ on the books this year that they likely wouldn't have paid yet. I know he filed a grievance to claim money he thought he had "earned" prior to his first arrest (3rd murder, 5th? shooting)

 

[Reverend]

 
I remember reading about all of this earlier, and I still don't quite understand it. What would they be getting cap relief from? He played for them in 2012-2013, so I'm not seeing how you can both get his on-field production and then later get that money back as cap relief. Would they get the entire 7 million back for 2013-2014, instead of the chunk that's unpaid? I thought the rules stated you could only get cap relief for money you can physically get back in your pockets or you haven't handed over. I'm afraid that money is gone regardless.

 
I believe it had to do not with getting the money back for that year but from their ability to invalidate the remaining years on his contract because he "lied" in signing the contract by signing it in spite of there being a clause saying that there was no reason he knew of that might prevent him from fulfilling the contract, which would be fulfilled by, "going to prison because I shot every third person I've ever known."

 

[mascho]

I went back to look at his CBS Sportsline Draft Profile.  It was right there all along.
 

 

[Reverend]

I wonder how solid the evidence is?  How hard do the criminal people think it would be to get this indictment?  Would similar KA's be enough to go with the spotty eyewitness accounts and build a case?  Or can we presume they have more?

 
The old saw is that a good prosecutor can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. Not sure why, but it's always a ham sandwich.

 

[dcmissle]

It is said you can indict a ham sandwich, which is a bit exaggerated but not much. Not tuning in. So I don't know the extent to which they are getting into the evidence, if at all. They would be wise not to, as this compounds the pre-trial publicity problems they already have.

It's not just this case, it's the other one too, and big picture between both it's hard to envision him anywhere but jail and prison for the next 30 years. This case undoubtedly has problems, as does the other, but winning back-to- back acquittals would be historic. Convicted in one, he will be locked up for a very long time. Plea agreements would undoubtedly carry very lengthy terms. This will eventually be sorted out, and you may not hear from him again until 2048.

EDIT:

Short version from prosecutors -- AH whacked both guys after a chance encounter in a bar. Neither victim involved in anything criminal, as had been rumored. Murder weapon recovered and tied to AH.

If they can prove this, change it to 2078.

 

[smastroyin]

Yeah, I'm not thinking there is an easy way out or anything, I'm more wondering how much more will pop up.  The more solid the evidence of this double murder is, the more you wonder what is behind it, etc. etc.  Or maybe he was just drunk and pissed off with a gun and ruined his life and several others over something stupid.  
 
Like, what did a guy that had been living in Boston for 7 months do that Hernandez felt the need to kill him?  Or was that guy just collateral damage and the other guy was the target, and why was he a target?  
 
And then of course it would be nice to know if the Odin Lloyd killing was to cover-up this event or if it was a completely unrelated act.  

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

I was on the grand jury for my county for 2 years back in the mid 90's and we would indict just about anything the cops and DA wanted. I was practicing criminal defense at the time so it was odd to say the least. The first few months I'd recuse myself and leave the room when they were discussing my cases, after I realized the cops and prosecutors didn't seem to know which cases were mine and which ones weren't, I'd just stay and listen. We had 18 people and the rules were you needed 12 yes votes to indict. There were days we only had 12 show up, so on those days I'd listen very carefully and vote no occasionally if the case sucked. 
 
But honestly, we would listen to every case from a specific department (City, etc) and vote yes on 100 cases at once. If something seemed like it needed special consideration we'd pull it out and vote on it separately after some small discussion. Since I was an attorney they all looked to me for guidance, but 99% of the cases were just detectives reading the indictments. DUI's and small crap was a waste of everyone's time. The GJ process is antiquated, its in place to reign in aggressive prosecutors, but the burden of proof difference between the indictment level and the conviction level is too great for it to matter.
 
Now a case like this gets special attention at that level. So they gave them tons of evidence as they couldn't afford a "no bill" return on the presentation.

 

[Ed Hillel]

 
I believe it had to do not with getting the money back for that year but from their ability to invalidate the remaining years on his contract because he "lied" in signing the contract by signing it in spite of there being a clause saying that there was no reason he knew of that might prevent him from fulfilling the contract, which would be fulfilled by, "going to prison because I shot every third person I've ever known."

 
Right, but isn't that what happened anyway? The Pats cap hit from Hernandez this year was for money already paid in bonuses, correct? It was all just accellerated because he was, well, incarcerated. As NFL contracts aren't guaranteed to begin with, what difference does invalidating the remaining years of the contract do in terms of impact on the salary cap? I'm not sure of the practical impact, either, since they can essentially just end a contract whenever. In other words, why the need for a clause allowing a team to get out of a contract that is non-guaranteed to begin with?
 
That's why I'm thinking we must be missing something. Maybe it entitles them to legally be able to get their signing bonus money back, but I'm not sure how much money Hernandez will have left to give back, and I swear the rule was that you can't get a cap hit back unless you actually get the money back. So my thinking was that maybe that clause that was discussed is more of a theoretical cap victory than an actual cap victory.

 

[Super Nomario]

 
Right, but isn't that what happened anyway? The Pats cap hit from Hernandez this year was for money already paid in bonuses, correct? It was all just accellerated because he was, well, incarcerated. As NFL contracts aren't guaranteed to begin with, what difference does invalidating the remaining years of the contract do in terms of impact on the salary cap? I'm not sure of the practical impact, either, since they can essentially just end a contract whenever. In other words, why the need for a clause allowing a team to get out of a contract that is non-guaranteed to begin with?
 
That's why I'm thinking we must be missing something. Maybe it entitles them to legally be able to get their signing bonus money back, but I'm not sure how much money Hernandez will have left to give back, and I swear the rule was that you can't get a cap hit back unless you actually get the money back. So my thinking was that maybe that clause that was discussed is more of a theoretical cap victory than an actual cap victory.

I agree getting money back is dubious. Some of the guaranteed money, however, has not been physically paid to Hernandez: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/16/hernandez-files-grievance-for-his-guaranteed-pay/. So I think they will be able to get $3.25 MM in cap space back, even if it's unclear if they will be able to recoup the remainder (i.e., the already-paid portion) of the guaranteed money.

 

[RedOctober3829]

The actual audio of the DA's office announcing this actually mentioned Hernandez by name as the shooter.  That's different from the Lloyd case where there is at least some doubt.

 

[dcmissle]

You forget about this for a long while. Then comes back like a recurring nightmare. If the charges are true, I can't think of anyone this vile associated with a major sports franchise in this country. OJ's playing days were long over, and he had been claimed by the entire country as a media celebrity. Belcher was just tragic. There have been vehicular homicides related to alcohol, but nothing quite like this. Complete sociopath, it would appear, who hoodwinked and charmed the socks off Kraft among others.

Had these acts occurred in FL, he's be in serious jeopardy of the DP if convicted. He'd probably not get it because of his resources, but still -- a guy you rooted like crazy for maybe on death row. Unbelievable.

Edit- Carruth would be close if not there with AH. Nice company.

 

[Reverend]

 
Right, but isn't that what happened anyway? The Pats cap hit from Hernandez this year was for money already paid in bonuses, correct? It was all just accellerated because he was, well, incarcerated. As NFL contracts aren't guaranteed to begin with, what difference does invalidating the remaining years of the contract do in terms of impact on the salary cap? I'm not sure of the practical impact, either, since they can essentially just end a contract whenever. In other words, why the need for a clause allowing a team to get out of a contract that is non-guaranteed to begin with?
 
That's why I'm thinking we must be missing something. Maybe it entitles them to legally be able to get their signing bonus money back, but I'm not sure how much money Hernandez will have left to give back, and I swear the rule was that you can't get a cap hit back unless you actually get the money back. So my thinking was that maybe that clause that was discussed is more of a theoretical cap victory than an actual cap victory.

 
I think the issue is the money "on paper" (no pun intended) and not actual cash paid out or collected. The issue of the actual money is something for the Patriots to settle with Hernandez. The salary cap hits are spread over a number of years based on the contract in ways not always affected by the non-guaranteed nature of the contract, right? Like, a signing bonus will be spread over a certain number of years because that's the way the contract is written, whereas some money gets accelerated if the player is cut? Invalidating a year is, I think, different from cutting a guy or even the guy getting injured--it's like it never happened, so it could have a different salary cap hit based on how the overarching agreement works. But it's obviously rare as fuck that we have a situation like this, so I can't find any good comparisons.

 

[Rovin Romine]

You forget about this for a long while. Then comes back like a recurring nightmare. If the charges are true, I can't think of anyone this vile associated with a major sports franchise in this country. OJ's playing days were long over, and he had been claimed by the entire country as a media celebrity. Belcher was just tragic. There have been vehicular homicides related to alcohol, but nothing quite like this. Complete sociopath, it would appear, who hoodwinked and charmed the socks off Kraft among others.

Had these acts occurred in FL, he's be in serious jeopardy of the DP if convicted. He'd probably not get it because of his resources, but still -- a guy you rooted like crazy for maybe on death row. Unbelievable.

Edit- Carruth would be close if not there with AH. Nice company.

 
I suppose the only mitigating factor would depend on how dirty the victims were (I don't mean legal mitigation, but gangsters trading bullets is different than gangsters gunning down someone who looked at them funny).  
 
Thus far, all of the AH victims seem to be somewhat normal people, but specifically targeted by Hernandez for a premeditated killing.  That puts AH in the OJ class.  Vehicular homicide, while stupid and tragic, lacks specific intent to kill (which in my mind is worse.)

 

[Reverend]

Yeah, I'm not thinking there is an easy way out or anything, I'm more wondering how much more will pop up.  The more solid the evidence of this double murder is, the more you wonder what is behind it, etc. etc.  Or maybe he was just drunk and pissed off with a gun and ruined his life and several others over something stupid.  
 
Like, what did a guy that had been living in Boston for 7 months do that Hernandez felt the need to kill him?  Or was that guy just collateral damage and the other guy was the target, and why was he a target?  
 
And then of course it would be nice to know if the Odin Lloyd killing was to cover-up this event or if it was a completely unrelated act.  

 
How long has he been smoking PCP? I'm about as hardcore an abolitionist for marijuana as you will find in a non-smoker, but PCP is really, really bad shit. Specifically, literally insane levels of paranoia inducing bad shit.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

I wish there was a way that the Patriots could release this asshole again.  What a waste.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

 
I think the issue is the money "on paper" (no pun intended) and not actual cash paid out or collected. The issue of the actual money is something for the Patriots to settle with Hernandez. The salary cap hits are spread over a number of years based on the contract in ways not always affected by the non-guaranteed nature of the contract, right? Like, a signing bonus will be spread over a certain number of years because that's the way the contract is written, whereas some money gets accelerated if the player is cut? Invalidating a year is, I think, different from cutting a guy or even the guy getting injured--it's like it never happened, so it could have a different salary cap hit based on how the overarching agreement works. But it's obviously rare as fuck that we have a situation like this, so I can't find any good comparisons.

 
Did someone say MONEY????
 

 

[Dogman]

I went back to look at his CBS Sportsline Draft Profile.  It was right there all along.
 

 
 
So it was. Man, right there under our noses. 

 

[Ed Hillel]

 
I think the issue is the money "on paper" (no pun intended) and not actual cash paid out or collected. The issue of the actual money is something for the Patriots to settle with Hernandez. The salary cap hits are spread over a number of years based on the contract in ways not always affected by the non-guaranteed nature of the contract, right? Like, a signing bonus will be spread over a certain number of years because that's the way the contract is written, whereas some money gets accelerated if the player is cut? Invalidating a year is, I think, different from cutting a guy or even the guy getting injured--it's like it never happened, so it could have a different salary cap hit based on how the overarching agreement works. But it's obviously rare as fuck that we have a situation like this, so I can't find any good comparisons.

 
Here's the problem, though. The year they are "invalidating," he actually played on the field and produced for the Patriots. I can't see the NFL having a system that would allow the Patriots to get that benefit and then turn around and get the benefit of that cap space back. Unless you are talking about 2013-2014, but I don't think he got any bonuses in the offseason last year before he was cut (could be wrong). Regardless, I am still under the impression that the rule is that the Patriots can't get any cap relief for money they don't actually get back in their hands or that they haven't given him. So, even if he never should have gotten the money, I'm not sure that helps the Patriots regarding the salary cap unless they could actually get that money back from him, assuming there was any from bonus money last year to get back.

 

[Shelterdog]

 
Here's the problem, though. The year they are "invalidating," he actually played on the field and produced for the Patriots. I can't see the NFL having a system that would allow the Patriots to get that benefit and then turn around and get the benefit of that cap space back. I don't think he got any bonuses in the offseason last year before he was cut, but I could be wrong. Though I am still under the impression that the rule is that the Patriots can't get any cap relief for money they don't actually get back in their hands.

 
I've looked up the CBA on this a couple of times and it's pretty clear that that's the case.  As SN states it might help them with some of the disputed, guaranteed but as of now unpaid payments.

 

[RhaegarTharen]

So it was. Man, right there under our noses.

If only the Pats had belonged to the national scouting services...

 

[RedOctober3829]

His experience in the shotgun offense takes on a brand new meaning.

 

[soxfan121]

His experience in the shotgun offense takes on a brand new meaning.

 
His legitimate scouting report does mention that he is dangerous in an open field or in traffic. 

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

You forget about this for a long while. Then comes back like a recurring nightmare. If the charges are true, I can't think of anyone this vile associated with a major sports franchise in this country. OJ's playing days were long over, and he had been claimed by the entire country as a media celebrity. Belcher was just tragic. There have been vehicular homicides related to alcohol, but nothing quite like this. Complete sociopath, it would appear, who hoodwinked and charmed the socks off Kraft among others.

Had these acts occurred in FL, he's be in serious jeopardy of the DP if convicted. He'd probably not get it because of his resources, but still -- a guy you rooted like crazy for maybe on death row. Unbelievable.

Edit- Carruth would be close if not there with AH. Nice company.

 
Even with Carruth, I think that's something close to Chris Rocks's bit on OJ... "now I'm not saying he shoulda killed her... but I understand."  Carruth's affair at least had to do with someone he was romantically involved with.  He was not convicted of first-degree murder.  Hernandez's murders, meanwhile, appear entirely without explanation, entirely cold-blooded, with no precipitating act even as pitiless as "she refused to abort the baby".  I think your statement doesn't need qualification, dcmissile: Aaron Hernandez is likely the worst person (that we know about) ever to play for a professional sports team.

 

[lexrageorge]

 
Here's the problem, though. The year they are "invalidating," he actually played on the field and produced for the Patriots. I can't see the NFL having a system that would allow the Patriots to get that benefit and then turn around and get the benefit of that cap space back. Unless you are talking about 2013-2014, but I don't think he got any bonuses in the offseason last year before he was cut (could be wrong). Regardless, I am still under the impression that the rule is that the Patriots can't get any cap relief for money they don't actually get back in their hands or that they haven't given him. So, even if he never should have gotten the money, I'm not sure that helps the Patriots regarding the salary cap unless they could actually get that money back from him, assuming there was any from bonus money last year to get back.

Hernandez had already collected about $9.25M in bonus money from his contract extension; that money was charged to the Patriots cap in 2013 and 2014.  The Patriots are trying to claim that AH signed the contract under false pretenses; they are making the argument that Hernandez signed the contract claiming he would be able to fulfill the obligations; getting convicted for the double murder that occurred prior to signing that contract would make it hard for Hernandez to claim in good faith that he would be able to fulfill his contract, knowing that the possibility of a conviction was real. 
 
I'm not sure how the NFL would view it if Hernandez is indeed convicted of these murders, but is unable to return the money.  But the Patriots feel it's worth a shot at getting some retroactive cap relief.  But don't expect anything to happen in 2014.  
 
There is also some unpaid bonus money:  $3.25M that would have been due in March, as well as some assorted workout and roster bonuses totaling $1M or so.  The Patriots have no intention of paying this money, and it will not be charged against the Patriots cap.  There is a grievance (maybe more than one) over this withheld money, but there is no way AH will win that case, unless he is acquitted entirely (and even then he will have an uphill battle).  However, that money has not been charged yet, so there's no relief possible.  

 

[soxfan121]

EDIT: fuck it, I'm not going there. Rae Carruth is a despicable asshole.

 

[bradmahn]

EDIT: fuck it, I'm not going there. Rae Carruth is a despicable asshole.

 
On a sheer numbers game (3 > 1-2), I see the tally going in Hernandez's favor, but none of Hernandez's (alleged) murders is, in my mind, as bad as putting out the hit on your pregnant GF.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Ending a human life like that is vile. I don't think it is worthwhile to attempt to differentiate between Carruth and Hernandez. They can be in a tie for the worst person ever associated with a professional sports franchise.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

 
Even with Carruth, I think that's something close to Chris Rocks's bit on OJ... "now I'm not saying he shoulda killed her... but I understand."  Carruth's affair at least had to do with someone he was romantically involved with.  He was not convicted of first-degree murder.  Hernandez's murders, meanwhile, appear entirely without explanation, entirely cold-blooded, with no precipitating act even as pitiless as "she refused to abort the baby".  I think your statement doesn't need qualification, dcmissile: Aaron Hernandez is likely the worst person (that we know about) ever to play for a professional sports team.

Dude.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

 
doodie strainer duty

 
Don't think I'll ever stop laughing at this.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

 
Even with Carruth, I think that's something close to Chris Rocks's bit on OJ... "now I'm not saying he shoulda killed her... but I understand."  Carruth's affair at least had to do with someone he was romantically involved with.  He was not convicted of first-degree murder.  Hernandez's murders, meanwhile, appear entirely without explanation, entirely cold-blooded, with no precipitating act even as pitiless as "she refused to abort the baby".  I think your statement doesn't need qualification, dcmissile: Aaron Hernandez is likely the worst person (that we know about) ever to play for a professional sports team.

 
MDL, I don't want to put too fine a point on this, but sometimes you fucking suck beyond belief.

 

[Jungleland]

That literally might have been the single dumbest post in the history of this board.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

Wait, so which habit of highly effective people is "trying too hard to be funny and regularly alienating everyone around you with your tremendous lack of wit, self-awareness or common sense"?
 
I bet it's a number two.

 

[Year of Yaz]

Off the top of my head I can't think of another person, who was in AH's financial position, that has committed such apparently motiveless, almost random murders. Is it a lack of intelligence that makes him incapable of understanding either how fortunate he was to be successful in football or the ramifications of murdering someone?

 

[RedOctober3829]

Off the top of my head I can't think of another person, who was in AH's financial position, that has committed such apparently motiveless, almost random murders. Is it a lack of intelligence that makes him incapable of understanding either how fortunate he was to be successful in football or the ramifications of murdering someone?

PCP is a helluva drug.

 

[Time to Mo Vaughn]

IF MDL ever knocks a chick up, apparently her two options are abortion or death.

 

[JayMags71]

MDL - Google "Chancellor Lee Adams", and see what you think of Rae Carruth after that.

 

[Year of Yaz]

PCP is a helluva drug.

PCP is a helluva drug.

Yeah, that might explain it.

As for calorie intake, he had enough money to order 10,000 calories off Ruth Chris menu, everyday, for the next 100 years or so.