Aaron Boone is the new Yankee manager
- Thread starter jon abbey
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The difference between Cora and Boone as it relates to experience is exactly one year as a bench coach. I like the Cora signing too, but let's not get carried away with the Boone news. We have no idea what Cashman was looking for, but experience was obviously not high on the list and he's one of the best (if not the best... Theo would probably have something to say about that, though) executives in the sport and likely has a plan for masking this work.
Cashman has become the most powerful Yankee GM since Ed Barrow.
Cash chafed during Torre's final years, and one WS championship emboldened Girardi. Aaron Boone, with absolutely no coaching experience, is putty in Cashman's hands.
As Joel Sherman wrote last night, this is a huge gamble by Cashman.
The bench manager pick will be fascinating. Does Boone get any say in this? I hope so. He'll be spending more time with his bench manager than he does with his wife.
Definitely agree that Cashman didn't want another headstrong manager. That is great point made by jtn46.
Cash chafed during Torre's final years, and one WS championship emboldened Girardi. Aaron Boone, with absolutely no coaching experience, is putty in Cashman's hands.
As Joel Sherman wrote last night, this is a huge gamble by Cashman.
The bench manager pick will be fascinating. Does Boone get any say in this? I hope so. He'll be spending more time with his bench manager than he does with his wife.
Lest we forget cries of "Clueless Joe" in 1996 before we herald this a joke move, or a win for the other side. I also seem to recall a fair bit of the Yankees fanbase unhappy with Girardi's hire over the more beloved Mattingly, who they felt was a better choice.
And if I remember correctly Red Sox fans acted as if the trade for Farrell was some kind of huge coup for the team, and now everyone seems ecstatic that he's gone and replaced with a guy with 1 year of experience as a bench coach, despite Farrell presiding over a World Series winner.
Don't get me wrong, I think the Sox made the right move this off season, but pardon me if I don't put stock in the snap judgements of fans on both sides claiming any team has any kind of "win" or "advantage" here. Many of these same fans were all saying how Beltran would have been a great choice, another guy with zero coaching experience.
Though Boone wouldn't have been my pick, I'm happy to see what shakes out and wait a year until deciding whether the Yankees-- or the Red Sox for that matter-- made a good choice.
As for snap judgements, if I was forced to give one, I'd say that, if successful, Boone will wind up being the next Torre: good with players, and decent in-game decision-maker who is more the beneficiary of a talented roster than a game changing manager. As many managers in the past have proven in both New York and Boston, an ability to manage the players, the clubhouse, and the media seems to be the most crucial trait the role demands. I seem to recall a lack of that skill running more than one manager out town.
I also wonder if Boone hadn't hit that infamous home run if there wouldn't be so much criticism of the move.
And if I remember correctly Red Sox fans acted as if the trade for Farrell was some kind of huge coup for the team, and now everyone seems ecstatic that he's gone and replaced with a guy with 1 year of experience as a bench coach, despite Farrell presiding over a World Series winner.
Don't get me wrong, I think the Sox made the right move this off season, but pardon me if I don't put stock in the snap judgements of fans on both sides claiming any team has any kind of "win" or "advantage" here. Many of these same fans were all saying how Beltran would have been a great choice, another guy with zero coaching experience.
Though Boone wouldn't have been my pick, I'm happy to see what shakes out and wait a year until deciding whether the Yankees-- or the Red Sox for that matter-- made a good choice.
As for snap judgements, if I was forced to give one, I'd say that, if successful, Boone will wind up being the next Torre: good with players, and decent in-game decision-maker who is more the beneficiary of a talented roster than a game changing manager. As many managers in the past have proven in both New York and Boston, an ability to manage the players, the clubhouse, and the media seems to be the most crucial trait the role demands. I seem to recall a lack of that skill running more than one manager out town.
I also wonder if Boone hadn't hit that infamous home run if there wouldn't be so much criticism of the move.
I don't think what you wrote about Farrell is particularly fair. He was the perfect hire for the 2013 team and they had a great season and won it all. He isn't the right man for the job any more so they moved on.
I think if you managed to get honest opinions from baseball people, the majority would think that replacing Farrell with Cora is an upgrade and replacing Girardi with Boone is a downgrade. That doesn't mean they will be right or that it will matter, but I do think that would be the general industry consensus.
It's also worth remembering that 2018 is still something of a transition year for NY as they try to add Torres, Andujar and Frazier into the lineup somehow, with Florial more likely in 2019. Their unexpected success this past season doesn't change the fact that the plan all along has been to put as much of the team in place by the end of 2018 as possible, and then go after superstar free agents like Harper or Machado next winter if needed. So in a way, Boone should have a season to learn on the job, at least from Cashman's perspective (I'm guessing).
It's also worth remembering that 2018 is still something of a transition year for NY as they try to add Torres, Andujar and Frazier into the lineup somehow, with Florial more likely in 2019. Their unexpected success this past season doesn't change the fact that the plan all along has been to put as much of the team in place by the end of 2018 as possible, and then go after superstar free agents like Harper or Machado next winter if needed. So in a way, Boone should have a season to learn on the job, at least from Cashman's perspective (I'm guessing).
Nice testimonial to Boone from HOF Cincy writer Hal McCoy:
http://cincinnatireds.blog.daytondailynews.com/2017/12/02/why-aaron-boone-will-succeed-in-new-york/
http://cincinnatireds.blog.daytondailynews.com/2017/12/02/why-aaron-boone-will-succeed-in-new-york/
As I said, I think the move to Cora was the right one; certainly Farrell's time was over and Cora is a good choice, but I think it's premature to say Cora will be any better than Farrell, outside of gut reactions. Likewise, and it's most definitely hindsight speaking (and trust in Cashman), but Girardi's time was also clearly over. Obviously they felt he was not the right guy to lead this new era of the Yankees, just as Farrell was not the right guy to lead the current Sox team.
Which means it really boils down to Cora vs. Boone, and there I think it's a lot closer (though Cora has a slight edge on paper) than saying "Yankees downgraded/Sox upgraded."
I loved Girardi, and was always a vocal defender, and if it were me I'd have retained him. But Cashman knows more than me, does this for a living, and has made very few bad moves, so if he thinks Boone is the right choice I'm willing to believe that he is.
This is a terrible paraphrase of a much more nuanced paragraph that I wrote above. It’s great to see another Yankee fan here, but let me gently recommend shorter and more direct posts in the future.
Is it really getting 'carried away' to express approval for the guy who does have that one year of bench coach experience for a championship team, plus stints managing and GM'ing winter ball and WBC teams, over a second guy who has been in a broadcasting booth since he retired from playing?
As someone else pointed out, it would be like the Sox plucking Jason Varitek for the managing job - at one level you'd want to give an experience executive like Dave Dombrowski the benefit of the doubt and assume he had a good sense about Tek and a plan to make it work, but if the Yankees countered by hiring Alex Cora I'd be feeling pretty jealous right now.
My earlier post wasn't intended as gloating or trash-talking, but my apologies if it was perceived that way. I just really like what the Sox did here over the Yankees move. It will definitely be fascinating to see how well both guys take to their new roles.
You're the Gleyber Torres of our Yankee farm system on SOSH. Just stay healthy and keep swinging. Welcome aboard.
Nobody is jealous of a manager with no track record. Can we stop the craptastic presumptions about how a fanbase should be jealous of a guy who 99% of fans couldn't pick out of a crowd. Alex Cora along with Aaron Boone are both inexperienced managers, period. You can't honestly think winter ball and the WBC is good experience. Those are exhibition games in no-pressure environments. Cora's experience as a bench coach, his one standout attribute, is not enough to set him apart as some perfect candidate. Both of these guys are entering jobs in major media markets having never had to manage huge personalities of players with enormous contracts and egos. If you give me the choice between Cora & Boone, I have absolutely no real information about how they will manage day-to-day to make any researched or thoughtful decision.
It's all about talented players. Yankees haven't picked a bad manager since the Dallas Green-Bucky Dent-Stump Merrill troika from 1989-91 when the talent pool had been drained. Buck Showalter was the right guy to manage the rebuild and Torre had great timing, arriving when the talent was ready.
Holdover pitching coach Larry Rothschild will run the mound staff and make decisions on whom to warm up in the fifth inning while Boone listens and learns. Abbey probably has it right: 2018 could be OJT for Boone. And we can't judge Boone until we see who his bench buddy is. Tony Pena? Gotta do better. Tony will have his hands full keeping Gary Sanchez focused on defense.
Holdover pitching coach Larry Rothschild will run the mound staff and make decisions on whom to warm up in the fifth inning while Boone listens and learns. Abbey probably has it right: 2018 could be OJT for Boone. And we can't judge Boone until we see who his bench buddy is. Tony Pena? Gotta do better. Tony will have his hands full keeping Gary Sanchez focused on defense.
As an example of how little we all know about which hires are good and which aren't, do people know who took Alex Cora's old job as bench coach in Houston for next season?
That's right, Joe Espada, NY's 3rd base coach who most Yankee fans seemed to hate.
That's right, Joe Espada, NY's 3rd base coach who most Yankee fans seemed to hate.
I think it might be Pena, but we'll see. Hopefully Sanchez will have help from an experienced backup catcher this season, I'm still hoping Alex Avila, I think.
Yes, they need to upgrade over Romine. His offense went from bad to worse last year. .565 OPS in 252 PAs. Too much exposure.
No one is saying Cora is a perfect hire but claiming that managing in winter ball and WBC ‘aren’t good experience because they’re no pressure environments’ is ignoring the very fact that any experience is better than none. Cora has run a clubhouse. Boone has not. Cora has been on the team for organizing a Major League Baseball teams daily operations. Boone has not. Cora has worked in a front office. Boone has not. Cora has been in a dugout during a game as a coach. Boone has not. Cora has actually instructed players. Boone has not. WBC and the winter leagues aren’t exactly beer league softball. Being a bench coach isn’t being a bat boy.
The only thing craptastic here is the blind homerism of thinking they are somehow equal. Find an impartial media member who puts them on par and we have a conversation. Until then maybe settle a bit. Nobody is saying Cora is lock stock and barrel going to be a better manager. But think of whatever industry you work in and ask yourself if when you make a promotion, you’d give more weight to the middle manager or the kid that works in the mailroom.
Man, we desperately need some actual player movement news.
I wasn't going to respond to this post, but I got promoted out of the mailroom at Time Magazine back in the day to be a reporter despite zero journalism background, and my first top byline anywhere ever was at Time (I only ended up having two before leaving, both Time and journalism), and middle managers are usually middle managers for a reason, so while I think that your analogy is entirely irrelevant to Cora and Boone (and why do we have to compare them like this anyway? I know it's what we do here, but it seems super silly in this case, with no real bodies of work for either yet), I felt compelled to answer that analogy.
So what I've learned in the last 24 hours about Aaron Boone is that while the vast majority of fans (both Yankee and non-Yankee) have little respect for him after a mostly mediocre playing career and a nondescript announcing career (he was really at ESPN for 8 years? I feel like somehow I missed the first six or so of those.), everyone actually involved in the sport seems to love him, article after article today raving about him. I'm not saying I buy it (OK, PP?), but it does seem to be quite the disconnect between his public perception and his perception within the sport.
But a lot of people here and elsewhere are certainly implying that, with comments that this is a huge win for the Sox, or a big advantage for Boston with Cora over Boone.
Given Crow's points, to declare this as a "big win" or "big loss" relative to the two teams managerial choices is homerism at the very least. Which is fine, but don't begrudge a Yankee fan for bringing a little objectivity to the discussion.
Tyler Kepner in the NYT has a good Boone piece up, this is interesting and something I had no idea about before a few minutes ago:
“He has a photographic memory of details, of physicality, of mechanics,” said Jim Bowden, who drafted Boone as general manager of the Cincinnati Reds. “It’s a really special trait. If something’s off, even a little bit, he’ll pick up on it immediately because his brain sees stuff that most brains don’t.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/02/sports/first-time-lifetime-yankees-aaron-boone-was-probably-born-to-manage.html?smid=tw-nytsports&smtyp=cur&_r=0
“He has a photographic memory of details, of physicality, of mechanics,” said Jim Bowden, who drafted Boone as general manager of the Cincinnati Reds. “It’s a really special trait. If something’s off, even a little bit, he’ll pick up on it immediately because his brain sees stuff that most brains don’t.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/02/sports/first-time-lifetime-yankees-aaron-boone-was-probably-born-to-manage.html?smid=tw-nytsports&smtyp=cur&_r=0
Regarding the top quote, i honestly think that might be the consensus *media* opinion, but not necessarily the insider consensus. I heard Sean Casey on MLBN today talk about Boonie in the clubhouse connecting with folk & seeing the game on another level, with a fervor usually reserved for managerial legends such as Joe Maddon and of course Alex Cora. Yes, I'd rather have Cora than Boone, but i think the fact that one is the sexxy hot candidate name in the media, and one hadn't been, is much more of a factor of Cora's higher profile and dugout experience, than it is any rational parsing of differences between the two. The negative snap judgments in this thread are based exactly on what we think it is, and it's amazing. Cognitive dissonance porn, even.
I saw this too, but keep in mind that Casey and Boone are very close friends, to the point where the other guys on MLBN were joking (half-joking?) that Casey should go after NY's bench coach job.
I question how much of this wave of good publicity since his hire is just because people around the game really like him and are happy for him (and know how hard a job this can be), as opposed to how good a candidate he actually is/was. The Kepner piece I linked above has some actual meat, I think.
Same herding effect, before and after the announcement, as with the media consensus #1 pick in a draft (coughFultzcough)
It's the weight being put into your valid points I take issue with, not the points themselves. You're not finding Yankee fans here saying they prefer Boone to Cora, are you? The argument I'm making is that 4 months before this guy ever makes an executive decision for a major league ball club, Sox fans are taking comfort that Cora checks a couple boxes that many managers who they've hated and loved before him also checked. By all measures, Cora is well-respected and likable and almost certainly a great improvement over Farrel but regarding Boone's lack of managerial experience I don't really know how to judge how that manifests itself on the field. Do you know what Cora's bullpen management skills are like? How he builds a lineup? What about how he'll handle underperforming young kids? I've watched "the best managers in the game" with decades of experience screw those things up. What is abundantly clear and becoming clearer as more Boone testimonials are being written is that he's well-respected in and out of the game and his only red flag is not having managed a club before. The LOL reaction posts are always expected but I'd hold off on them before proclaiming victory.
And re: your industry experience comment. I've been seeing more and more people in roles that play well to their skillset, not necessarily their experience having done the job before. The metaphorical career ladder which implies you must climb straight up to achieve certain positions no longer exists in many places. Further, if Cashman interviewed people both with and without experience, it's fair to say that the organization is willing to take a risk that there might be a learning curve early-on for someone who checks all of the boxes and they trust will be a great manager once they're "experienced."
How could you have missed him? ESPN put him on every Red Sox/Yanks game so they could play his home run over and over.
Edit: to add.. hasn't Boone been around a dugout for most of his life with he Dad and brother? Does his Dad have any insights into being an ok-but-not-great manager?
He seems really generic to me, I tend not to notice announcers unless they're really good or really bad.
Yeah, he was in the Phillies championship parade when he was 7. Some people have said his dad could be the bench coach, but that seems like a really dumb idea.
IF this was my team I would need a lot of convincing that its a good idea to entrust it to a guy who has never managed at any level, or as far as I know never managed in any capacity. I understand this isn;t rocket science but managing a large organization with highly compensated and skilled individuals many with large egos is not the easist task in the world. Cashman must be a helluva salesman.
That's not what he's saying and he's right. It's an incredible risk for Cashman to take and there's no getting around that. Cora is less of a risk given his experience.
I think a lot of us Sox fans thought Girardi overall was pretty good despite his flaws. And at the same time a lot of us disliked Farrell. So we were happy that both the Sox and Yanks moved on, especially given how it has turned over. We may be wrong. No doubt about that. But given that we felt like were at a managerial disadvantage the last few years, it feels like we are in a better place today.
I don't disagree with his overall point: Boone is a risk. What I was attempting to say is that while Boone is a risk, it's my opinion that one year as a bench coach (pretty much the difference between them) doesn't catapult Cora into the category of "safe pick."
Thats a real solid rebuttal But what does it have to do with flipping Boone the keys to the Ferrari, when he doesn't have a driver's license?
I think it a very curious organizational decision.
And fwiw I was not in the fire Farrell camp, but saw the handwriting on the wall. I'm in the wait and see camp on Cora.
I meant to put it above, but maybe I didn't: it's not just that Cora had a year as bench coach anywhere, he had it with the Astros, who along with the Dodgers and a couple of other teams, seem to be the cutting edge of baseball organizations currently.
That was one thing in Beltran's favor also IMO, that he had a year involved with the Astros also as a quasi-bench coach (father figure, deeply respected, and barely played the field so he was in the dugout almost the entire game).
That was one thing in Beltran's favor also IMO, that he had a year involved with the Astros also as a quasi-bench coach (father figure, deeply respected, and barely played the field so he was in the dugout almost the entire game).
He's as close to a safe pick as you can get for someone with minimal managerial experience. Not only that, he was their target and they went out and got him. The Yankees went about this a little differently and they may or may not have had Boone in mind when they fired Girardi but the process and time it took at least offers up that they weren't 100% sure Boone was their guy.
On the other hand, the Sox knew they needed to rush to get Cora in case they lost him to another team so it doesn't really seem like they went through a lengthy process looking for backup options. My guess is that Cashman had his eyes on Ibanez with Boone, Beltran, and Bam as his backups.
For both teams, it looks like they put some emphasis on hiring a manager who could handle the market. Cora, having played for the Sox and experienced the pressure, and Boone being part of the media in NY and having played in NY.
The key to that is "for someone with minimal experience." And seems to go contrary to your previous post, which is what I was attempting to reinforce.
The fact is they are both inexperienced, and while Cora has an edge on paper, neither has ever run a team before, let alone in a major market like Boston or New York.
I'm not criticizing your post in any way but genuinely asking what the heck this means. I keep hearing these generalist statements and I get that the Astros are widely considered to be one of the most advanced orgs out there but it's not like Cora can take the analytics department with him. The Yankees have the largest analytics department in baseball and as long as the manager is someone who embraces and utilizes that information, I'd rather take the top down approach here.
My post was not a takedown piece on Cora, it was a level setting statement on being too hopeful for success or failure for either manager. It was in response to the posts trying to piss on Boone by throwing around WBC and Winter League coaching experience as something relevant come April.
None of my posts are takedowns on Cora either. As I said, I think he's a fine pick, and has a demonstrable edge over Boone, but I don't think the difference between them is the wide chasm that some seem to be acting like it is. Like you, I'm simply trying to bring some objectivity to even out the disparate levels of excitement over them.
While there were a few names associated with the Sox job (Ausmus, Gardenhire) the initial consensus seemed Cora was the guy. And with Ausmus and Gardenhire, both those guys had managerial experience. In the Yankees search it appears experience was something Cashman studiously avoided. It was an interesting approach, and risky. IMO it seems he wants a shit load of control that the expereinced guy would chafe at, and resist but a novice (like Boone) would not. Cashman did not want another big name in that dug-out.
Based on who he interviewed, I'd say his #1 priority was a guy who could instill a positive clubhouse atmosphere and handle the rigors of the New York media. Secondarily, someone who wouldn't clash too much with him and ownership on their decision making.
In my career have always held the approach that you can teach someone the skills to do a job, but can't teach the attitude and passion and personality. If Boone has the right attitude and personality, a good bench coach and a little seasoning will hopefully put everything into place.
I'd say Cashman's #1 priority was getting Girardi out of the dug-out and putting someone in his place whom he could control.
Just the experience of having that kind of information at your disposal and learning how to incorporate it into your preparation. All tesms have it to some extent, but the Astros really seemed to work miracles this year at times, with pitchers like Peacock and Morton especially.
I mean, Eric Wedge got one of the six interviews, but all of the top teams seem to be using age as maybe their main criterion, Hinch and Roberts and Cora and Boone are all between 42-45.
Yes, I agree that was high on his list, but I think in terms of actual skill, in-game strategy wasn't high up there. Joe Torre was often criticized for being a very mediocre in-game manager, but he was good because he managed the team well in the clubhouse and with the media, in a market known for being tough to play in.
This is a critical skill that cost Valentine and eventually Francona their jobs his jobs, and was no doubt part of the schism between Farrell and management (concessions that none of these lost their jobs for that alone, and all were complicated scenarios).
His relationship with players was of course also a factor in Girardi's dismissal.
Wedge has been out of the game for what 4-5 years. And yes there is a correaltion between age and experience and Cashman, who could have hired anyone he wanted, opted for youth/inexperience.
IMO Cashman's search was more about who he could successively communicate with and influence, rather than choosing a candidate with strong opinions and experiences about managing a baseball team or any organization. The pablum we heard about the manager's need to handle the press/public relations was just a smoke screen. Did Girardi (who was very articulate) have a problem with the press? Not that I was aware of.
IMO Cashman's search was more about who he could successively communicate with and influence, rather than choosing a candidate with strong opinions and experiences about managing a baseball team or any organization. The pablum we heard about the manager's need to handle the press/public relations was just a smoke screen. Did Girardi (who was very articulate) have a problem with the press? Not that I was aware of.