76ers 2019-2020

terrynever

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Sixers just look to me like a team that needs to deal one of their top 4 guys. The presence of Simmons makes Horford less valuable than he might be elsewhere. They have $120M tied up in 4 guys for foreseeable future so there’s zero flexibility here. Ownership is smitten with Simmons so they won’t do anything but he’s the guy I’d deal. Could get a ton for him.
It’s the head coach who is Ben’s biggest backer. Brown coached Ben’s father in Australia. The friendship goes way back. The owner is a hedge fund whiz who would flip Simmons if it were possible.
I favor a Simmons trade, just to shake up the mix. But then you get pretty mediocre without all the things Ben does well — defense, mismatches, etc.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Sixers just look to me like a team that needs to deal one of their top 4 guys. The presence of Simmons makes Horford less valuable than he might be elsewhere. They have $120M tied up in 4 guys for foreseeable future so there’s zero flexibility here. Ownership is smitten with Simmons so they won’t do anything but he’s the guy I’d deal. Could get a ton for him.
Can't trade Embiid. Who is going to give up anything of value for Horford with his contract? That leaves Simmons and Harris.

After already jettisoning one #1 draft pick because he had no value with Simmons handling the ball, I find it difficult to believe that PHI will get rid of him. Which leaves Harris. He's young enough that maybe teams would want him at 50% on the dollar, but I don't see what PHI could get for him that would make them better. After all, he was supposed to be an elite shooter, which this team desperately needs.

I also think - as do they - that they'll be a much tougher team in the playoffs.
 

snowmanny

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I also think - as do they - that they'll be a much tougher team in the playoffs.
A notch above “finding their rhythm” and way above seeding, the Sixers priority has to be getting to the playoffs with Embiid available to play every game. For once.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Can't trade Embiid. Who is going to give up anything of value for Horford with his contract? That leaves Simmons and Harris.

After already jettisoning one #1 draft pick because he had no value with Simmons handling the ball, I find it difficult to believe that PHI will get rid of him. Which leaves Harris. He's young enough that maybe teams would want him at 50% on the dollar, but I don't see what PHI could get for him that would make them better. After all, he was supposed to be an elite shooter, which this team desperately needs.

I also think - as do they - that they'll be a much tougher team in the playoffs.
From his stats, Harris appears to be taking fewer shots from deep in favor of drives and midrange shots. He had his most success shooting when he upped his volume from deep but that was with LAC and the Pistons where he was used a bit differently.

Just a WAG but I wonder if his struggles are largely a function of being how he is defended as one of/the 76ers primary volume three point shooter(s). He had more help with the Clippers and was probably was defended differently altogether in Detroit. The other options are simply a slump or that the league adjusted to him or maybe his leap from behind the arc was a bit fluky.

Regardless, the 76ers need more shooting (for obvious reasons they rank fairly low in 3PA/g or % of 3P) so I wonder if they try to avoid moving Harris in lieu of some bargain basement types who are rumored to be available like an Evan Fournier or Alec Burks.

Reddick's departure hurts here as many people predicted.
 

BigSoxFan

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From his stats, Harris appears to be taking fewer shots from deep in favor of drives and midrange shots. He had his most success shooting when he upped his volume from deep but that was with LAC and the Pistons where he was used a bit differently.

Just a WAG but I wonder if his struggles are largely a function of being how he is defended as one of/the 76ers primary volume three point shooter(s). He had more help with the Clippers and was probably was defended differently altogether in Detroit. The other options are simply a slump or that the league adjusted to him or maybe his leap from behind the arc was a bit fluky.

Regardless, the 76ers need more shooting (for obvious reasons they rank fairly low in 3PA/g or % of 3P) so I wonder if they try to avoid moving Harris in lieu of some bargain basement types who are rumored to be available like an Evan Fournier or Alec Burks.

Reddick's departure hurts here as many people predicted.
I just don’t see anyone being interested in that Harris deal. He is a negative asset. Wouldn’t be surprised if Matisse or Zhaire go in a deal for a bench shooter.
 

lovegtm

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I just don’t see anyone being interested in that Harris deal. He is a negative asset. Wouldn’t be surprised if Matisse or Zhaire go in a deal for a bench shooter.
Yeah, the contract seems over the edge where it’s negative. At 5/130 or so it’s probably an asset or neutral.

He’s not even a bad player—the Sixers FO just managed that whole thing so poorly.

I’m guessing Matisse is pretty untouchable for them—what is the deal with Zhaire?
 

Big John

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[QUOTE="lovegtm, post: 3701786, member: 70615"

I’m guessing Matisse is pretty untouchable for them—what is the deal with Zhaire?
[/QUOTE]

Well, Zhaire dropped 15 on the Red Claws yesterday in a losing effort. I don't think he's developing as quickly as they had hoped.
 

BigSoxFan

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Latest reports I’ve seen are that his skills are still very raw, even for G League. Great athlete but I’m not sure he’ll ever be more than an energy guy off the bench. Obviously very young so we’ll see. But he won’t be helping the Sixers this year unless it’s through a trade.
 

Jimbodandy

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Latest reports I’ve seen are that his skills are still very raw, even for G League. Great athlete but I’m not sure he’ll ever be more than an energy guy off the bench. Obviously very young so we’ll see. But he won’t be helping the Sixers this year unless it’s through a trade.
Have seen Zhaire play twice in the G league. Can't get a whole lot smaller of a sample size than that, but he looks like junk right now. Possible late bloomer, since he obviously has skills, but he looks like Just Another G-Leaguer.
 

benhogan

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I wouldn't expect the 76ers to make big in-season trades like they did last year. They know they'll make the playoffs and probably feel like they can bully the Bucks and the Celtics in a halfcourt game.

If that doesn't work and they exit early then they'll probably make a move this summer.

The Warriors wait in the weeds with a young ex-All Star, a high lottery pick, future firsts, and young assets to pounce on whoever is moving their superstar this summer (Or if a superstar asks to leave).
 

lovegtm

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I wouldn't expect the 76ers to make big in-season trades like they did last year. They know they'll make the playoffs and probably feel like they can bully the Bucks and the Celtics in a halfcourt game.

If that doesn't work and they exit early then they'll probably make a move this summer.

The Warriors wait in the weeds with a young ex-All Star, a high lottery pick, future firsts, and young assets to pounce on whoever is moving their superstar this summer (Or if a superstar asks to leave).
Not to mention that they can’t really do anything with Simmons, even if they wanted to, until his contract kicks in, since it’s so hard to match rookie extensions in trades.
 

bowiac

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I'm not really sure the Sixers need a move at all to be honest; they're 20-9 so far when Embiid plays, and while yes, he's injury prone, there's no move that's going to make them a contender if Embiid is out anyway, so you just need to presume he's gonna be healthy.

The Horford and Harris contracts are both probably underwater, so are hard to move without attaching an asset. I sort of wonder who would say "no" to a Tobias Harris for D'Angelo Russell deal, but I think the answer may be both teams.

If the Sixers want to make a move for a better shot creator, I'd say Richardson is the natural target. He's got a good contract, and I thought he'd be a great fit with this team, but he's stagnated a bit. Further, Thybulle's emergence probably makes him a bit redundant in the long term. If you want more of an offensive presence, then I bet you could get one of Fournier or his clone Tim Hardaway Jr in exchange for Richardson (and salary filler).
 

benhogan

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I sort of wonder who would say "no" to a Tobias Harris for D'Angelo Russell deal, but I think the answer may be both teams.

If the Sixers want to make a move for a better shot creator, I'd say Richardson is the natural target. He's got a good contract, and I thought he'd be a great fit with this team, but he's stagnated a bit. Further, Thybulle's emergence probably makes him a bit redundant in the long term. If you want more of an offensive presence, then I bet you could get one of Fournier or his clone Tim Hardaway Jr in exchange for Richardson (and salary filler).
I don't care for either with their contracts. IMO, it's not really close which is the better asset:

D. Lo's 24-27 age seasons (4yrs @ $117MM ~$29MM/yr) > Tobias age 27-31 (5yrs @ $180MM ~$36MM/yr)

That deal did cross my mind before but Golden State should shoot for higher then Tobias Harris.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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I don't care for either with their contracts. IMO, it's not really close which is the better asset:

D. Lo's 24-27 age seasons (4yrs @ $117MM ~$29MM/yr) > Tobias age 27-31 (5yrs @ $180MM ~$36MM/yr)

That deal did cross my mind before but Golden State should shoot for higher then Tobias Harris.
Agree. Not sure what PHI would do with DLo, but if they are moving Harris for him, PHI is throwing in assets IMO.
 

bowiac

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I don't care for either with their contracts. IMO, it's not really close which is the better asset:

D. Lo's 24-27 age seasons (4yrs @ $117MM ~$29MM/yr) > Tobias age 27-31 (5yrs @ $180MM ~$36MM/yr)

That deal did cross my mind before but Golden State should shoot for higher then Tobias Harris.
The counterpoint is that Harris is already good. You're hoping that one day Russell develops into someone as good as Harris. I think in the abstract, they're not very far apart as assets.

But I agree that Golden State is probably aiming higher than Harris, even if it's unclear why anyone would give them more.
 

Montana Fan

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I'd hate to see it happen but I think IT4 would be a good fit off the bench for the Sixers and would be decent paired with Simmons. He's only making $2.3 mil and is shooting 42% from 3 point land.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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I'd hate to see it happen but I think IT4 would be a good fit off the bench for the Sixers and would be decent paired with Simmons. He's only making $2.3 mil and is shooting 42% from 3 point land.
He’d also represent an exploitable weak link in their generally excellent perimeter defensive identity, so at best it would be a trade off.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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He’d also represent an exploitable weak link in their generally excellent perimeter defensive identity, so at best it would be a trade off.
I've watched a couple of games and for all of the defensive accolades that PHI gets, they get beat back door a ton from what I've seen.

I will add that once they got down vs IND, they certainly didn't give a ton of effort so maybe that game doesn't count.
 

lovegtm

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Embiid/Horford on/offs are pretty interesting.

Horford+Embiid lineups are only +3.4--Philly is about +4.5 as a team for the season.

Embiid is +8.6 overall, and +12.2 in over 1000 possessions without Horford.

Horford is +5.7 without Embiid, and +8 without Embiid but with Simmons (over 1000 possessions of that).

This all suggests that, contrary to his desires, Al is much, much better as a 5 than as a 4 currently, particularly with an offensive center as good as Embiid. It still seems like a fine use of resources for Philly before Simmons' contract kicks in: if they had had good non-Embiid minutes, they might have won the title last year. They could also potentially play Embiid more in the 32-35 minute range in the playoffs, since he seems to have conditioning issues, while not getting thrashed in that time.

Also Philly probably should be keeping Horford in 22-28 min/game Tim Duncan shrinkwrap to maximize playoff and contract value.
 

HomeRunBaker

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You guys are really overthinking this. The Sixers look unbeatable at home with a 16-2 record. They are 7-11 on the road with effort and cohesion being their primary issues away from Philly. 5-man splits viewed as a whole without incorporating home/road splits is missing a big piece to the puzzle. The problem to me seems to be leadership and cohesion which challenges them on the road to a degree that it doesn’t at home......the biggest cohesion piece this team misses are Redick and the other veteran role players who are no longer here.
 

lovegtm

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You guys are really overthinking this. The Sixers look unbeatable at home with a 16-2 record. They are 7-11 on the road with effort and cohesion being their primary issues away from Philly. 5-man splits viewed as a whole without incorporating home/road splits is missing a big piece to the puzzle. The problem to me seems to be leadership and cohesion which challenges them on the road to a degree that it doesn’t at home......the biggest cohesion piece this team misses are Redick and the other veteran role players who are no longer here.
I don’t think it’s a stretch to think that Embiid and Horford are redundant regardless of home/road, but happy to go look at the data.

I agree with the other stuff.
 

Kliq

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I'm not that concerned with the Sixers, all of the talk of hoping we face Milwaukee instead of Philadelphia is overblown, imo.

Philly feels very one-dimensional in the playoffs. The lack of Jimmy Butler is a big difference for them this year; they don't have any other natural scoring option on their team besides Embiid. Simmons hasn't really taken any steps forward this year, and Harris is shooting poorly from deep and is better off as a third or fourth option for a title contending team. They are currently 14th in offensive rating, pretty poor for a team with title aspirations, and I think in the postseason their weaknesses are going to be exposed even further.

They are asking a lot out of Embiid to be the fulcrum on offense, a big task for a guy who historically has been hurt or out of shape in the playoffs. If you take away Embiid with double teams, you are banking on Simmons/Harris/Richardson/Horford beating you. Horford is an awkward fit with Embiid on both ends, as they do similar things on defense and on offense, Embiid is used more as a screener and Horford is forced to stand in the corner. They also miss Redick as the spacing he provided was different than the spacing Harris/Richardson provide as spot-up shooters.

They will be rock solid on defense, but I don't see them being able to consistently score down the stretch in a playoff series against a good defense.
 

lovegtm

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I'm not that concerned with the Sixers, all of the talk of hoping we face Milwaukee instead of Philadelphia is overblown, imo.

Philly feels very one-dimensional in the playoffs. The lack of Jimmy Butler is a big difference for them this year; they don't have any other natural scoring option on their team besides Embiid. Simmons hasn't really taken any steps forward this year, and Harris is shooting poorly from deep and is better off as a third or fourth option for a title contending team. They are currently 14th in offensive rating, pretty poor for a team with title aspirations, and I think in the postseason their weaknesses are going to be exposed even further.

They are asking a lot out of Embiid to be the fulcrum on offense, a big task for a guy who historically has been hurt or out of shape in the playoffs. If you take away Embiid with double teams, you are banking on Simmons/Harris/Richardson/Horford beating you. Horford is an awkward fit with Embiid on both ends, as they do similar things on defense and on offense, Embiid is used more as a screener and Horford is forced to stand in the corner. They also miss Redick as the spacing he provided was different than the spacing Harris/Richardson provide as spot-up shooters.

They will be rock solid on defense, but I don't see them being able to consistently score down the stretch in a playoff series against a good defense.
The hope (at least for me) isn't to play Milwaukee over Philly. I just think Milwaukee matches up very poorly with Philly because Giannis is Embiid's child, and so I'd like to see them meet in round 2, and then potentially face Philly with homecourt in the ECF.

Agree about the nature of Philly's weaknesses.
 

Kliq

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The hope (at least for me) isn't to play Milwaukee over Philly. I just think Milwaukee matches up very poorly with Philly because Giannis is Embiid's child, and so I'd like to see them meet in round 2, and then potentially face Philly with homecourt in the ECF.

Agree about the nature of Philly's weaknesses.
Giannis had one bad game this year against Philly.

Last season, they met three times and Giannis averaged 43-16-8 against Philadelphia. He also called Ben Simmons a baby. That must be a very confusing family dynamic.
 

lovegtm

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Giannis had one bad game this year against Philly.

Last season, they met three times and Giannis averaged 43-16-8 against Philadelphia. He also called Ben Simmons a baby. That must be a very confusing family dynamic.
I'd have to go check how they defended Giannis last time, but Embiid completely owned him on Christmas. It wasn't like he was getting good shots and missing, or help was perfectly timed--he couldn't generate anything near the rim against Joel.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don’t think it’s a stretch to think that Embiid and Horford are redundant regardless of home/road, but happy to go look at the data.

I agree with the other stuff.
Oh I def agree that they are and have been saying this since the summer. They are just so dominant at home it never haunts them.
 

lovegtm

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Oh I def agree that they are and have been saying this since the summer. They are just so dominant at home it never haunts them.
Yeah, I thought you'd be all over the "Horford can't really play the 4 anymore" evidence ;)

And yeah, re the being dominant at home: the way they're going, they're not going to have homecourt in a single round. The top 6 of the East is like the West used to be: some very good teams are going to get seeded 5/6.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yeah, I thought you'd be all over the "Horford can't really play the 4 anymore" evidence ;)

And yeah, re the being dominant at home: the way they're going, they're not going to have homecourt in a single round. The top 6 of the East is like the West used to be: some very good teams are going to get seeded 5/6.
Horford has always been an All-Star or borderline All-Star player playing the 5 his entire career. It isn’t like playing him out of position would turn him into a frontcourt version of Markelle Fultz......he’s still going to be a good player in the right lineup and Baynes was, for whatever reason, a real good mix with him. He’s just not the guy you can simply plug into any lineup playing out of position and all will be good.
 

terrynever

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Stumbling 76ers home Monday to OKC and then home to Boston on Thursday. They have lost 7 of last 10. Hard to blame that run on Thybulle’s injury. Maybe home cooking will bail them out again. But there are some obvious flaws in this team’s offensive game, and its commitment to playing hard for 48 minutes. Horford seems to have no role in the offense.
In all this chaos, Ben Simmons had a monster game last night. 29 points, 11 assists, 13 rebounds, four blocks, three steals. Say what you will, Simmons comes to play.
These guys are hard to watch right now. And if they do finish fifth or sixth, Brett Brown is gone. Can’t fire the players.
 

lovegtm

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Stumbling 76ers home Monday to OKC and then home to Boston on Thursday. They have lost 7 of last 10. Hard to blame that run on Thybulle’s injury. Maybe home cooking will bail them out again. But there are some obvious flaws in this team’s offensive game, and its commitment to playing hard for 48 minutes. Horford seems to have no role in the offense.
In all this chaos, Ben Simmons had a monster game last night. 29 points, 11 assists, 13 rebounds, four blocks, three steals. Say what you will, Simmons comes to play.
These guys are hard to watch right now. And if they do finish fifth or sixth, Brett Brown is gone. Can’t fire the players.
I loved what they did putting Simmons as a roll man. He’d be so good next as the full centerpiece of a team.
 

benhogan

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He can calm down with the cold water of Horford at the 4 being a clear negative for Philly this year.
maybe playing Center against 2nd stringers isn't a bad idea for Big Al :redwine:

also playing 4 with the 2020 Sixers is different than playing the 4 for the past Celtic teams
 

Kliq

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Don't worry, the Celtics will also be without Kemba after he says "friggin" to a ref.
He will actually say "fraction" during a discussion with Jaylen Brown about common denominators but the ref will mishear him.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Sixers 3FG in tonight’s loss

Scott 1-6
Harris 1-5
Horford 0-3
Richardson 1-8
Thybulle 1-5
Korkmaz 1-5
Simmons 0-0 (naturally)

Just make the DLo-for-Simmons deal happen already.
 

benhogan

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Just make the DLo-for-Simmons deal happen already.
you'll get Al Horford for D Lo and like it!

Whatever happens, with the Sixers, it's going down this Summer. A 6th seed and first-round exit is going to force them to make some rash moves.:popcorn:
 
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BigSoxFan

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you'll get Al Horford for D Lo and like it!

Whatever happens, with the Sixers, it's going down this Summer. A 6th seed and first-round exit is going to force them to make some rash moves.:popcorn:
7-14 road team. Yikes.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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What end of season result gets Brett Brown fired? Second round exit or worse? If they make the conference finals and lose to the Bucks in six games, is he safe? At a certain point they’ll feel forced to shake it up, and it’s not like front offices have a lot of incentive to put the blame on themselves and roster construction issues.
 

BigSoxFan

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What end of season result gets Brett Brown fired? Second round exit or worse? If they make the conference finals and lose to the Bucks in six games, is he safe? At a certain point they’ll feel forced to shake it up, and it’s not like front offices have a lot of incentive to put the blame on themselves and roster construction issues.
I think Brown is fine as long as there isn’t an Embiid mutiny or something. But if this season ends in disappointing fashion, there is definitely going to be a shakeup this summer.
 

Smokey Joe

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I think Brown is fine as long as there isn’t an Embiid mutiny or something. But if this season ends in disappointing fashion, there is definitely going to be a shakeup this summer.
Didn’t they already do that last summer? They let Butler and Redick go and brought in Horford and Richardson. (And Thybulle). If they get rid of Simmons or Embiid, that’s more like an earthquake.
 

lovegtm

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I was hoping for them to fall on the 1-4/5 side of the bracket, but the Celtics could easily end up with them as a 1st-round opponent now. This is crazy.
 

BigSoxFan

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Didn’t they already do that last summer? They let Butler and Redick go and brought in Horford and Richardson. (And Thybulle). If they get rid of Simmons or Embiid, that’s more like an earthquake.
Was Butler ever going to re-sign in Philly? Seems like he had 1 foot out the door.