6/3 vs Tampa Game 2.... S A T U R D A Y NIGHT Let's keep it rolling against the Bay City!!!

Moviegoer

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Oh, for fuck’s sake. The better team won. It’s hilarious how every move the manager didn’t make is a strike out or home run.
Better team overall, sure. Better team today in particular, that's not certain. Though, the better manager certainly won because he didn't put in the obviously wrong pitcher in a tie game late to cost his team the game.
 

soxhop411

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E5 Yaz

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Better team overall, sure. Better team today in particular, that's not certain. Though, the better manager certainly won because he didn't put in the obviously wrong pitcher in a tie game late to cost his team the game.
So, did the better manager win the first game as well?
 

Moviegoer

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Oh. So Jansen said it was fine to put him in game two, even though by literally every standard not to mention basic common sense it was a stupid move that was very likely to blow up in his face. It wasn't even a save situation.
Is this like when Pedro told Grady he was fine, to leave him in?
 

E5 Yaz

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greek_gawd_of_walks

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Lol. Sometimes it's the manager's place to tell a guy that he isn't available, even when the player insists he's good to go, especially in a weird situation like using a pitcher twice in the same day.

I'll bite, I could excuse this move if it was a save situation (I still probably would have stayed away from him even with a lead-- it's just not worth the risk of potential overuse, and doubly so if Kenley is now unavailable Monday). It wasn't, so I think it was a wholly inappropriate use of Jansen, even if he said he was good to go. Kenley doesn't tell Cora what to do. Cora can be informed by Kenley as to how he's feeling, but that doesn't necessitate him being used.

It's over and done with, but we'll just agree to disagree on this being a good or correct baseball move. It was just aggressive with not much upside. And it could have been a lot worse had the inning gone longer and Paredes not hacked away on 3-0. With no one up in the pen, Kenley was facing an even larger pitch count.
 
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twibnotes

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I know the actual games don't matter to your pre-determined position, but you should realize other people here actually watch them. I mean, if you don't want to come off like a dick or anything.
This pm was the sharpest he’s looked in a few outings and even then he gave up a 100 mph+ rocket for a double

I hope I’m wrong but I too worry about how Jansen has looked lately
 
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twibnotes

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Possible that Pivetta wasn’t used because he’s taking Sale’s place in the rotation?
i was at the game and sat by the Sox pen…for whatever it is worth, pivetta was warming in the bottom of the 9th and it seemed like he was gearing up to go in if Sox tied it

I’m no scout but was surprised at how the ball was coming out of his hand. He was throwing smoke
 

Rovin Romine

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This pm was the sharpest he’s looked in a few outings and even then he gave up a 100 mph+ rocket for a double

I hope I’m wrong but I too worry about how Jansen has looked lately
Jansen this year up till his 400th save: .077 ERA. 1 win, 9 saves, 1 blown save. Basically perfect.

Then Jansen hangover after the 400th save - a blown save, later attributed to his mechanics being out of whack.
This is followed immediately by another blown save - but Cora did not have to use him in back to back games, certainly not until they were clear they had a fix.

Since the hangover until 7 PM yesterday: 5 appearances, 0 ERA. 3 saves, no W/L, no blown saves. The one thing that an observer might not be thrilled about is the BB v. K which was 4 and 4. But he only gave up one hit in that span. Seems, like, maybe, acceptable for a guy getting his groove back.
 

Rovin Romine

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Better team overall, sure. Better team today in particular, that's not certain. Though, the better manager certainly won because he didn't put in the obviously wrong pitcher in a tie game late to cost his team the game.
Managing is hard - Cora had to give two post game interviews today. So maybe, under the pressure, he wasn't aware that he'd have to go cautiously with his pen since he was using an opener in the second game of a double-header.
 

Al Zarilla

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So, Pivetta possibly was being saved for extra innings ... which makes little sense, since he could have started in the ninth and pitched a couple more innings
View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1665162512721911814?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Remember Mora's rant? Modify it...Extra innings! Extra innings! Let me tell you about Extra innings! Like you say, the ninth is practically extra innings anyway. Go with Pivetta then, not Kenley. Pivetta just came out of years of starter status, could go a few innings for us. Mora, Cora, practically the same name. LOL
 

joe dokes

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I'll bite, I could excuse this move if it was a save situation (I still probably would have stayed away from him even with a lead-- it's just not worth the risk of potential overuse, and doubly so if Kenley is now unavailable Monday). It wasn't, so I think it was a wholly inappropriate use of Jansen, even if he said he was good to go. Kenley doesn't tell Cora what to do. Cora can be informed by Kenley as to how he's feeling, but that doesn't necessitate him being used.
There' never a save situation in a home game tied after 8.
FWIW--26 doubleheader saves since 2010 (as of last June)
https://www.mlb.com/news/josh-hader-saves-two-games-in-one-day-for-brewers
 

YTF

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My point exactly. He wasn't going to get a save in a tied game. Don't use him if that's the case after already using him earlier in the day.

I'm done with this.
Here's where I'm at I'm not 1000% against the use of Jansen a second time. If Cora feels there is a favorable match up and he needs Jansen to get the final out, perhaps final two outs ehhh OK. But after 16 pitches in game one Cora's committed to Jansen facing 3 batters by starting him in that inning. IMO there has to be a Plan B in place to get him out of there if things go sideways, not only to try to stop the bleeding, but also to try to save his arm for possible use on Monday. To me, leaving Jansen in there to face 7 hitters was a bad piece of managing. Sucks that Cora had to use 6 pitcher in the opener, but he should been prepared to "sacrifice" an arm other than his closer's in that final inning of game two.
 

joe dokes

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My point exactly. He wasn't going to get a save in a tied game. Don't use him if that's the case after already using him earlier in the day.

I'm done with this.
Who cares if he wasn't going to get a "save." I get the argument for not using him twice yesterday, but to never use your best reliever in the top of the 9th of a tied game at home is not a good plan.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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A tie game at home against the first place team in the division seems like the time when you would push it and use whomever you deem your best reliever in that spot- either Jansen or Martin, both of whom had pitched in game 1. I guess the obvious choice here, though, was Pivetta? A guy who many wanted gone like 10 days ago?
 

Remagellan

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Who cares if he wasn't going to get a "save." I get the argument for not using him twice yesterday, but to never use your best reliever in the top of the 9th of a tied game at home is not a good plan.
I missed both games yesterday, but if Jansen warmed up in the bottom of the eighth in case the Sox took the lead, you have to use him in the top of the ninth or you lose him for the game. And with the pen shortened because of how much it was used in the first game, using him was the right call. It just didn't work out, but that's the nature of the game.
 

greek_gawd_of_walks

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Who cares if he wasn't going to get a "save." I get the argument for not using him twice yesterday, but to never use your best reliever in the top of the 9th of a tied game at home is not a good plan.
That was the whole of my argument. If that's the only game you have in a day, go nuts. Use your best reliever in the highest leverage spot.

The doubleheader double usage was the entirety of my beef.