2024 HOF Ballot

scottyno

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I do generally think that closers should be held to a very high standard when evaluating their Hall of Fame case and if I was voting I would only support a reliever who had at least one dominant postseason run culminating in a championship. Even though they obviously didn't have the regular season pedigree to garner Hall of Fame consideration, in my head guys like Papelbon and Koji for example had more successful careers than guys like Wagner and Hoffman because they were lights out in the playoffs and each carried the Sox all the way to a World Series win in '07 and '13 respectively, while Hoffman and Wagner consistently came up small.
They each had 15-20 year careers and threw the equivalent of about a months worth of innings in the playoffs spread out over a decade, judging their whole career based on if they had 1 small sample size of pitching well combined with luck seems pretty silly.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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They each had 15-20 year careers and threw the equivalent of about a months worth of innings in the playoffs spread out over a decade, judging their whole career based on if they had 1 small sample size of pitching well combined with luck seems pretty silly.
True, but its the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Statistical Greatness, and something that gets you fame (or detracts from your fame) is your performance on the biggest stage.
 

Ale Xander

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James Shields can thank whoever came up with his nickname for even being included on the ballot.

Abreu is one of those guys the statheads love (like my boy Posnanski) but I just can't wrap my head around being a HOFer. I just never thought of him as being elite.'

I'm always interested in the Buehrle vs Pettitte argument. I assume Pettitte's case relies heavily on the postseason and Buehrle maybe on throwing a perfect game?

Having Jimmy Rollins and Chase Utley on the ballot together os sort of interesting to me. Always think of them together. Rollins got the MVP but Utley was undoubtedly the better player over his career.

I'm a big Hall guy so my ten would be
Beltran
Beltre
Helton
Jones
Mauer
Manny
ARod
Sheffield
Utley
Wagner
Rollins Utley is an interesting argument
Do you value defense and speed (and memorability) in your MIF or do you value batting and ability to get plunked?
 

iddoc

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Nov 17, 2006
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Yeah, but Boggs and Ripken were both full time players well into their 30s. That's the point - they spent a good 5-10 years living off of past glory while playing okay, not great, baseball. This enabled them to get to magic numbers, like 3,000 hits. If Jones had been capable of playing full time until he was into his late 30s, he'd have reached 500 homers and he'd be in on the first ballot. Instead, he had the stink of "wow, what happened to that guy!?"
Also Jones lost much of his defensive value. He became a part-time corner OF/DH.
 

Eric1984

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Rollins Utley is an interesting argument
Do you value defense and speed (and memorability) in your MIF or do you value batting and ability to get plunked?
Neither of them should even sniff the Hall while Lou Whitaker sits on the outside...
 

TapeAndPosts

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Neither of them should even sniff the Hall while Lou Whitaker sits on the outside...
What I didn't realize until comparing their stats is that Whitaker was a better hitter than Trammell. From long ago I had the impression it was the other way around. Now looking at it I see Trammell had a higher batting average (which is likely why he was perceived as better back whenever I formed my impression) but Whitaker is ahead in OBP, SLG and OPS+. Anyway I agree with this, there's no doubt in my mind Whitaker should be in — it's great that Trammell finally went in but it's hard to understand why him and not the other guy too.

As for Utley and Rollins, I certainly understand why they are discussed together but the parallel with Trammell and Whitaker breaks down a little because Rollins just wasn't that good. Whitaker and Trammell have lifetime bWARs of 75.1 and 70.6; Utley is at 64.5, not as great but in the conversation. But Rollins is 47.6. He won an MVP in his career year when like 6 guys had better years than him (including Utley!) but that best year was just 6.1 WAR. Utley had five seasons in a row all better than that. Obviously Rollins was a very good baseball player and I'd love it if Marcelo Mayer had his career for the Red Sox, but he just doesn't really compare to those other guys.
 

Eric1984

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What I didn't realize until comparing their stats is that Whitaker was a better hitter than Trammell. From long ago I had the impression it was the other way around. Now looking at it I see Trammell had a higher batting average (which is likely why he was perceived as better back whenever I formed my impression) but Whitaker is ahead in OBP, SLG and OPS+. Anyway I agree with this, there's no doubt in my mind Whitaker should be in — it's great that Trammell finally went in but it's hard to understand why him and not the other guy too.
I am a HUGE Alan Trammell fan but Whitaker was very underappreciated and just as good. Two things held Lou back -- Trammell played SS, which is the more glamorous position, and the Detroit beat writers (assholes like Joe Falls) always pounded a low-key racist narrative that Whitaker, who was so good he made things LOOK easy, was lazy, didn't hustle, got by on talent and was "nonchalant." Or that he was sullen -- when the truth is that he was a very nice guy who was also very quiet and unassuming, in keeping with his Jehovah's Witness faith (which is also why he didn't come onto the field for the National Anthem, which made all the old, white conservative writers fall onto their fainting couches). Or that he was flaky (he injured himself on the dance floor at a wedding one time and he left his uniform in a cab when he was traveling for the ASG and had to wear a replica from a souvenir stand -- which is honestly something that could have happened to anyone). Plus, the Tigers organization always did a terrible job promoting their stars -- their PR and marketing was always 40 years behind the times.
 

DJnVa

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Through age 27 David Wright seemed to be on a HoF trajectory, then injuries and the like and it just didn't happen. He ended up playing the equivalent of only 10 full seasons.
 

Max Power

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Joe Posnanski has been using Bill James' Win Shares in his HOF columns this week. He's putting them out there because it's interesting how it follows and diverges from WAR and they're hard to look up on your own. On first glance, Win Shares seem to match up better with how the players were seen during their careers. Rollins is a little ahead of Utley. Sheffield is right up there with Manny. And Andrew Jones isn't really close to Hall worthy (said to be around 325 by James).
  1. Alex Rodriguez, 492 Win Shares
  2. Gary Sheffield, 430
  3. Manny Ramirez, 408
  4. Adrian Beltré, 373
  5. Carlos Beltran, 369
  6. Bobby Abreu, 356
  7. Todd Helton, 318
  8. Joe Mauer: 305
  9. Jimmy Rollins, 305
  10. Chase Utley, 291
  11. Adrián González, 286
  12. Omar Vizquel, 282
  13. Torii Hunter, 277
  14. Andruw Jones, 276
  15. David Wright, 267
  16. Matt Holliday, 266
  17. José Reyes, 257
  18. Victor Martinez, 230
  19. José Bautista, 227
  20. Andy Pettitte, 224
  21. Mark Buehrle, 220
  22. Brandon Phillips, 207
  23. Bartolo Colon, 205
  24. Billy Wagner, 182.1
  25. Francisco Rodriguez, 168
  26. James Shields, 133
 

Ale Xander

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Joe Posnanski has been using Bill James' Win Shares in his HOF columns this week. He's putting them out there because it's interesting how it follows and diverges from WAR and they're hard to look up on your own. On first glance, Win Shares seem to match up better with how the players were seen during their careers. Rollins is a little ahead of Utley. Sheffield is right up there with Manny. And Andrew Jones isn't really close to Hall worthy (said to be around 325 by James).
  1. Alex Rodriguez, 492 Win Shares
  2. Gary Sheffield, 430
  3. Manny Ramirez, 408
  4. Adrian Beltré, 373
  5. Carlos Beltran, 369
  6. Bobby Abreu, 356
  7. Todd Helton, 318
  8. Joe Mauer: 305
  9. Jimmy Rollins, 305
  10. Chase Utley, 291
  11. Adrián González, 286
  12. Omar Vizquel, 282
  13. Torii Hunter, 277
  14. Andruw Jones, 276
  15. David Wright, 267
  16. Matt Holliday, 266
  17. José Reyes, 257
  18. Victor Martinez, 230
  19. José Bautista, 227
  20. Andy Pettitte, 224
  21. Mark Buehrle, 220
  22. Brandon Phillips, 207
  23. Bartolo Colon, 205
  24. Billy Wagner, 182.1
  25. Francisco Rodriguez, 168
  26. James Shields, 133
This looks ok other than Sheffield being ahead of Manny and Vizquel being ahead of AJones and and Abreu being ahead of Helton and Wright being so so lightly ahead of Reyes and Holliday.
 

TapeAndPosts

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I am a HUGE Alan Trammell fan but Whitaker was very underappreciated and just as good. Two things held Lou back -- Trammell played SS, which is the more glamorous position, and the Detroit beat writers (assholes like Joe Falls) always pounded a low-key racist narrative
Depressing but not really surprising that that's the case. This discussion is making me into a more emphatic Whitaker supporter!

It's interesting to look at the top 10 players by bWAR who have been retired long enough to be eligible for the Hall, but are not in it. They are:

4. Barry Bonds (162.8)
8. Roger Clemens (139.2)
16. Alex Rodriguez (117.5)
67. Pete Rose (79.6)
68. Curt Schilling (79.5)
78. Jim McCormick (76.2)
81. Bill Dahlen (75.3)
83. Lou Whitaker (75.1)
93. Rafael Palmeiro (71.9)
96. Bobby Grich (71.1)

At the top you've got these three absolute inner-circle HoF-caliber players who are not in because of steroid things. Then two guys who are not in because they are various flavors of asshole. McCormick played ten seasons in the 1870s and 1880s and (apparently!) pitched over 500 innings 4 years in a row, but voters understandably may be reluctant to honor a player who played in such a different environment. Dahlen was a shortstop in the 1890s and 1900s, who has received a number of votes for the Hall from the recent old-timers committees, but hasn’t made it in.

Then there's Whitaker, and a little further down is another steroid guy (Palmeiro) and then Bobby Grich. So in this measure, Whitaker is the best modern player who was kept out of the Hall for, apparently, purely sporting reasons, with Grich number two. From this we learn that 75 bWAR is the absolute talent cutoff for the HoF — no one has more than that and isn't in unless he did something else to make voters mad. Players above that threshold who are not yet eligible include Pujols, Beltre, Trout, Verlander, Kershaw and Greinke, with Scherzer right at 75.

Of course, the vast majority of players in the low 70s are in as well, most in the high 60s, and many below that. The next few who are out are Beltran (70.1), Rick Reuschel (69.5) and Manny (69.3).
 

Ale Xander

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Not sure how seriously WAR should be treated if Manny, Gwynn and Miggy are all outside of the top 100
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

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I am a HUGE Alan Trammell fan but Whitaker was very underappreciated and just as good. Two things held Lou back -- Trammell played SS, which is the more glamorous position, and the Detroit beat writers (assholes like Joe Falls) always pounded a low-key racist narrative that Whitaker, who was so good he made things LOOK easy, was lazy, didn't hustle, got by on talent and was "nonchalant." Or that he was sullen -- when the truth is that he was a very nice guy who was also very quiet and unassuming, in keeping with his Jehovah's Witness faith (which is also why he didn't come onto the field for the National Anthem, which made all the old, white conservative writers fall onto their fainting couches). Or that he was flaky (he injured himself on the dance floor at a wedding one time and he left his uniform in a cab when he was traveling for the ASG and had to wear a replica from a souvenir stand -- which is honestly something that could have happened to anyone). Plus, the Tigers organization always did a terrible job promoting their stars -- their PR and marketing was always 40 years behind the times.
The 1984 Tigers are probably one of my favorite teams of all time, which is odd, since I’m not a Tigers fan at all. However, I was 9 then, they got off to that incredible (40-4?) start, and I loved Whitaker, Trammel, Gibson and Chet Lemon.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
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The 1984 Tigers are probably one of my favorite teams of all time, which is odd, since I’m not a Tigers fan at all. However, I was 9 then, they got off to that incredible (40-4?) start, and I loved Whitaker, Trammel, Gibson and Chet Lemon.
No love for Willie? He’s barely cold.
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

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No love for Willie? He’s barely cold.
I was just lazy typing out names. I loved that whole team as a kid. It’s the first team set I ever put together as a kid and at one point as an adult, I had started getting all the 84 Topps cards signed but just eventually stopped.

As far as the HOF goes, Beltre is a lock. At this point they’ve let so many mediocre players that I really don’t get excited for this anymore, unless it’s a former Sox player, or someone I particularly enjoyed watching play.
 

simplicio

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Not sure how seriously WAR should be treated if Manny, Gwynn and Miggy are all outside of the top 100
Why? Are you saying their terrible fielding (and Miggy's last 7 years of bad hitting too) didn't cost their teams wins?
 

Max Power

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Why? Are you saying their terrible fielding (and Miggy's last 7 years of bad hitting too) didn't cost their teams wins?
Not as many as WAR would have you believe. Manny and Sheffield's teams never seemed to have problems winning games even with them in the field. I think it vastly overestimates the value of defense in both directions. Baseball front offices have the best stat departments there are and they don't hand out big salaries to defensive specialists, either. So I think they tend to agree.

I get the draw of WAR. We've been given instant access to every kind of stat we want in the last few years and it can be overwhelming. It's nice to have a single number to point to as the one true value. But I think it's built on a foundation of like 50% bullshit and is used in ways it was never intended by the inventors. None of them would tell you that an MVP should just be the aWARd, but so many arguments start and end there.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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This looks ok other than Sheffield being ahead of Manny and Vizquel being ahead of AJones and and Abreu being ahead of Helton and Wright being so so lightly ahead of Reyes and Holliday.
Sheffield had 1K more AB’s than Manny, though. Also not sure what we are arguing about as Manny and Sheffield look pretty great by WAR, win shares, etc. Sheffield being slightly ahead of Manny is a function of him being a better defensive player and having a longer career.
 

scottyno

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Not as many as WAR would have you believe. Manny and Sheffield's teams never seemed to have problems winning games even with them in the field. I think it vastly overestimates the value of defense in both directions. Baseball front offices have the best stat departments there are and they don't hand out big salaries to defensive specialists, either. So I think they tend to agree.
They didn't have problems winning with them in the field when they played on loaded teams
 

simplicio

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I buy that defensive stats are inherently dodgy and often don't agree with each other, but when they all kinda agree that Manny's 2005 & 2006 were both in the top 10 worst defensive seasons in the past 20 years, I don't think it's a stretch to say he probably would have been a greater asset to a team with a vacancy at DH.

Defense is important! There's a good reason we only have two dedicated DHs in the HOF.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Defense is important! There's a good reason we only have two dedicated DHs in the HOF.
Actually three if you count Harold Baines (along with Ortiz and Martinez).

In the same respects, maybe only six or seven players know for their defense in the HoF.

But now that Edgar broke the DH seal, I assume that more will go into Cooperstown.
 

Max Power

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I buy that defensive stats are inherently dodgy and often don't agree with each other, but when they all kinda agree that Manny's 2005 & 2006 were both in the top 10 worst defensive seasons in the past 20 years, I don't think it's a stretch to say he probably would have been a greater asset to a team with a vacancy at DH.

Defense is important! There's a good reason we only have two dedicated DHs in the HOF.
The good reason is that it's only been a position for 50 years and there haven't been very many full time DHs in general. Is there a DH out there who was a great hitter that has been overlooked by the HOF voters because they didn't play defense?

Even if were true that Manny's 2005 and 2006 were some of the worst defensive seasons ever, what is that really worth? Baseball by definition is 50% offense and 50% defense. For the offensive 50%, value is probably 45 hitting and 5 or less baserunning. On the other side, how do you split pitching and defense? Pedro put up some of the best seasons ever with crummy defensive teams. I'd guess it's something like 40-10. If that's the case, hitting should be 4.5x (45% vs 10%) as valuable as defense and the range between the best and worst oWAR should be 4.5x as big as the range between the best and worst dWAR. But that's not the case. This year there's a 10 oWAR difference between the top and bottom and 6 dWAR. That's less than 2x different. Judge kind of broke the oWAR scale last year, but it was similar 2x range.

There are three possible explanations we can draw from that.

1. There's twice as large a variance between good and bad defenders than good and bad hitters, especially in the outfield.

2. Pitching and defense are equally responsible for preventing runs.

3. WAR severely overvalues defense compared to offense.

I don't find the first two particularly believable, so I'm inclined to go with 3.
 

E5 Yaz

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The good reason is that it's only been a position for 50 years and there haven't been very many full time DHs in general. Is there a DH out there who was a great hitter that has been overlooked by the HOF voters because they didn't play defense?
The only primary DH who was known for being the best at the position prior to Baines and Edgar really was Hal McRae. Top 10 players who had the most regular season starts at DH:
Bold is HOF; underline is played significant time at other positions

Ortiz
Baines

McRae
Edgar
Frank Thomas (1,310 as DH; 971 at 1B)
Don Baylor (1,287 DH; 970 OF/1B)
Paul Molitor (1,495 INF/OF; 1,174 as DH)
Chili Davis (1,184 in outfield; 1,160 as DH)

Travis Hafner
Nelson Cruz (1,046 DH; 970 in OF)
 

simplicio

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Manny's career DRS/inning playing OF was 50% worse than Jeter's (all-time negative DRS leader) at SS. Do you realize how terrible you have to be to achieve that?
 

snowmanny

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Manny's career DRS/inning playing OF was 50% worse than Jeter's (all-time negative DRS leader) at SS. Do you realize how terrible you have to be to achieve that?
Obviously Papi's defense was worse because he couldn't even get on the field. What do we do with that?
 

snowmanny

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He gets extra points for awesomeness
Well, I totally agree. I'm just tired reading the infinite posts about Manny's defense when he was on about the only AL team that would have put him in the field. And, by the way, it all seemed to work out OK from my seat.
 

E5 Yaz

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Well, I totally agree. I'm just tired reading the infinite posts about Manny's defense when he was on about the only AL team that would have put him in the field. And, by the way, it all seemed to work out OK from my seat.
Oh ... you still read those?
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Even if were true that Manny's 2005 and 2006 were some of the worst defensive seasons ever, what is that really worth? Baseball by definition is 50% offense and 50% defense. For the offensive 50%, value is probably 45 hitting and 5 or less baserunning. On the other side, how do you split pitching and defense? Pedro put up some of the best seasons ever with crummy defensive teams. I'd guess it's something like 40-10. If that's the case, hitting should be 4.5x (45% vs 10%) as valuable as defense and the range between the best and worst oWAR should be 4.5x as big as the range between the best and worst dWAR. But that's not the case. This year there's a 10 oWAR difference between the top and bottom and 6 dWAR. That's less than 2x different. Judge kind of broke the oWAR scale last year, but it was similar 2x range.
I'd just add that Manny played the position in the field where defense matters the least (especially in Fenway), but he hit in a spot in the lineup that was very important to the offense. The idea that his defense was soooo bad as these stats would indicate just doesn't hold water.
 

VTSox

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I buy that defensive stats are inherently dodgy and often don't agree with each other, but when they all kinda agree that Manny's 2005 & 2006 were both in the top 10 worst defensive seasons in the past 20 years, I don't think it's a stretch to say he probably would have been a greater asset to a team with a vacancy at DH.

Defense is important! There's a good reason we only have two dedicated DHs in the HOF.
He'd have been a greater asset to an inferior team. His ability to at least occupy left kept Ortiz in the line up.
 

ehaz

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Utley and Mauer will be interesting to watch. By 7-year peaks, they’re each shoo-ins. E.g., Utley is 9th among second basemen in bWAR ahead of Sandberg, Gordon, Alomar and Biggio. Mauer is 5th ahead of Berra, Fisk, Munson and Posey.
 

JM3

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Committee options are out...

8 candidates will be considered by the Hall of Fame's Contemporary Baseball Era Committee: Cito Gaston, Davey Johnson, Jim Leyland, Ed Montague, Hank Peters, Lou Piniella, Joe West and Bill White.

The committee will meet Dec. 3 in Nashville, with results announced that evening.
View: https://twitter.com/Feinsand/status/1729186886739251264

ETA: (My bad, didn't realize this was old news)
 
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Sad Sam Jones

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That's actually news from a few weeks ago but every time I see the list the Cito Gaston nomination seems more absurd than before. He won back-to-back championships with the most talented roster in baseball at the time (though they topped out at 96 regular season wins), and outside of that, he managed for 10 years with a 703-704 record. He had a reputation for his hands-off, stay-out-of-the-way managerial style.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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That's actually news from a few weeks ago but every time I see the list the Cito Gaston nomination seems more absurd than before. He won back-to-back championships with the most talented roster in baseball at the time (though they topped out at 96 regular season wins), and outside of that, he managed for 10 years with a 703-704 record. He had a reputation for his hands-off, stay-out-of-the-way managerial style.
I imagine that Gaston's inclusion is less his won-loss record and more that he was the first African American manager to win the World Series. And he did it twice.
 

CJM

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I'll sing a brief song for Bobby Abreu, a classic "Hall of Very Good" player and a darling of fantasy baseball and Baseball Prospectus in the early 2000's. He was at the forefront of a wave of excellent Venezuelan ballplayers--among them Magglio Ordonez, Johan Santana, Carlos Guillen, Freddy Garcia, and Melvin Mora. Abreu was an absolute horse--played all 162 games twice 1998-2011 and only played fewer than 150 games once from 1998-2011 (142 games in 2011). That span, his age 24-37 years, marked his career as a full-time player.

An adequate but reliable corner outfielder (though he did win a GG in 2004 almost certainly fueled by his offense), Abreu was a machine at the plate. He had a tangible amount of pop, but matched it with speed on the base paths, averaging 20 HR and 28 SB in that thirteen year career. He maintained an OBP just south of .400 and averaged an OPS+ of 130. In his best year, playing for the 2004 Phillies, he had over 100 runs and RBI, 30 home runs, 40 stolen bases, and walked more times than he struck out (127BB/116SO).

Guy won't, and probably shouldn't, come close to the HoF, but his combination of speed, power, batting eye, and durability puts him in pretty rare company. He was on lousy teams and didn't get much in the way of recognition (All-Star twice, never top-15 in MVP, one Silver Slugger). He looked like a block of wood but moved surprisingly fast. I remember coveting him in fantasy and being royally annoyed when the Yankees traded for him. Just a hell of a ballplayer to have on your team.
 
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jon abbey

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Abreu was an onbase machine and a pleasure to watch hit for NY but I have to take strong exception to this:

An adequate but reliable corner outfielder (though he did win a GG in 2004 almost certainly fueled by his offense),
He was horrendous even in the tiny NY RF, his defensive efforts in NY were constantly mocked and legitimately so. More than maybe any other OFer I've ever seen, he would always slow up when approaching fences. This is actually prudent and probably makes sense in the big picture but it sure did lead to a lot of catchable balls turning into hits. For my own curiosity, I looked up some alltime career cumulative dWARs:

Manny Ramirez: -21.7 (9774 PAs)
Jason Giambi: -19.7 (8908 PAs)
Bobby Abreu: -10.9 (10081 PAs)
Bernie Williams: -9.5 (9053 PAs)
Kyle Schwarber: -9.5 (3968 PAs) (yikes!!!)
Derek Jeter: -9.4 (12602 PAs)

Then I found a page listing the worst defenders of all time, most of these guys are on there but also relevant to this HOF discussion is that Gary Sheffield has the worst career dWAR that I see for anyone at an incredible -27.7.

https://www.stadiumtalk.com/s/worst-mlb-defensive-players-ea1694ada4234c8f
 

CJM

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That's good stuff to know. I was going mostly off of BRef's numbers (which I only partially understand) that seemed to put him around league average. I'd read that Philly fans had the exact same issue--he was extremely risk-averse in going for balls, a particularly stark comparison to his OF peer Jim Edmonds (though I think many now attribute Edmond's outfield acrobatics to poor route running).
 

Sandwich Pick

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That's good stuff to know. I was going mostly off of BRef's numbers (which I only partially understand) that seemed to put him around league average. I'd read that Philly fans had the exact same issue--he was extremely risk-averse in going for balls, a particularly stark comparison to his OF peer Jim Edmonds (though I think many now attribute Edmond's outfield acrobatics to poor route running).
This is accurate. It was probably the number 1 complaint people had about him, other than his (alleged) passivity at the plate with runners on base. I remember John Marzano (not the poster) being especially hard on him.

As for Utley and Rollins, I think it's been covered well that they will have different obstacles to get in. Rollins can get in through traditional counting stats and Utley through his peak years. They both deserve to have their numbers retired (If the team changes its asinine "unofficial" policy that they will only retire a number if the player is in the HOF.)
 

DJnVa

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From Stark: One-and-done? No! Why David Wright deserves a long look on the Hall of Fame ballot

But then an always-thoughtful American League executive texted me, unprompted, with this important Baseball Hall of Fame bulletin:

Kirby Puckett is a Hall of Famer, so why isn’t David Wright?
Wright had eight seasons with an OPS+ of 124 or better. So how many third basemen in history had that many seasons that were that much better than league average (with at least 475 plate appearances)? Well, only three finished their careers with more than eight of those seasons: Schmidt (11), Eddie Mathews (11) and Brett (10). Plus there were four others, besides Wright, with exactly eight: Chipper, Boggs, Santo and Rolen. And all seven of those third basemen have plaques in Cooperstown
This is not a David Wright is a Hall of Famer and anybody who doesn’t think so is an idiot kind of column. This is a column that says I’ve seen what can happen when we allow ourselves time to give the best players of their era the long, thoughtful look they deserve. Ask Edgar Martinez. Ask Tim Raines. Ask Larry Walker.
 

Max Power

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SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
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Boston, MA
Sheffield was never suspended for steroids. And I tend to believe him that he was just doing what Barry Bonds suggested when they were together, but stopped when he learned what was going on. A-Rod but not Manny is a weird one.