2023 Pats: Post Your Final Draft Grade

2023 Pats: Post Your Final Draft Grade

  • A+

    Votes: 6 3.3%
  • A

    Votes: 37 20.4%
  • A-

    Votes: 40 22.1%
  • B+

    Votes: 36 19.9%
  • B

    Votes: 37 20.4%
  • B-

    Votes: 11 6.1%
  • C+

    Votes: 7 3.9%
  • C

    Votes: 4 2.2%
  • C-

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • D/F

    Votes: 1 0.6%

  • Total voters
    181

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,868
Somewhere
Glad they got their top guys and it seemed pretty clear they were meh on the guys available in round 3+ so they went and got their favorites. Filled the K/P need (hopefully and cheaply). A- but who knows.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
75,447
If they got Boutte instead of MM with their third pick, and traded the rest of their picks for a bag of oranges, I would be just as happy. Although i do like the punter.

B+ for Boutte.
 

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
9,072
Philly
A? A-? I mean they got to me three film wise top 50 guys and all can be difference makers. You want guys teams have to plan for? You got up to 3 of them. They added talent to all 3 levels of the defense fantastic IOL depth and a WR who fell to day 3 for character concerns. He’s still super young and dominated as an 18 year old! That’s really good. He’s Jarvis Landry 2.0 but with more juice.
 

IdiotKicker

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 21, 2005
11,181
Somerville, MA
A-. Hopefully the new OLs are an upgrade to the depth we had previously, but I really would have liked a TE in the 4th somewhere. Other than that, I love what they did at the top end and the back end is a crapshoot that they e historically been good at.
 

BigJay

New Member
Jul 22, 2022
86
B+.

Seems like a solid draft, but every year we seem to think they did great and/or this guy was a 'steal', and most years it just doesn't happen.

While we weren't exactly great last year, are there really 12 openings on the roster? And if there aren't isn't it a wasted pick that you could've traded for a pick next year or combined to move to a higher pick this year?
 

j44thor

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
11,207
I was an A after the first three rounds but thought today was terrible. They really needed to address the TE position which historically takes a year or two before they are productive and instead they drafted 12 IOL after taking one in the first round last year, seemed like a "Strange" investment of resources. I think they have a serviceable offense in 23 but 24 the cupboard is going to be bare but at least we won't run out of guards.

Boutte is fine as a 6th rd pick but I hope people don't expect much, he was the 2nd leading receiver on his team barely beating out a TE. He has not been the same since his ankle injury.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
35,511
I was an A after the first three rounds but thought today was terrible. They really needed to address the TE position which historically takes a year or two before they are productive and instead they drafted 12 IOL after taking one in the first round last year, seemed like a "Strange" investment of resources. I think they have a serviceable offense in 23 but 24 the cupboard is going to be bare but at least we won't run out of guards.

Boutte is fine as a 6th rd pick but I hope people don't expect much, he was the 2nd leading receiver on his team barely beating out a TE. He has not been the same since his ankle injury.
I'm honestly curious what TE you wanted them to draft, because almost everyone who went today I think would struggle to make the 53 next year. I like Durham the most of the ones who went today, but even him I think the upside is mostly JAG. He's nowhere near the class of the two guys we have and I doubt next year he'd be more than a backup. They missed the run yesterday, and that's fine, it happens and they chose to go with White.
 

JM3

often quoted
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
16,779
I was at an A- after d2. I'll stick with an A-. We drafted lots of humans who will hopefully be as good or better than the previous humans we had & we can pay them less $, allowing us to pay lots of $ to humans of superior skill if one is to become available.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
45,341
Melrose, MA
What bunch of #2 guys? Juju? When has Bourne been a #2? The guy has had 50 catches in a season 1 time in his career (2021 with the Pats) and is coming off a 35 catch season and FTR, I am a big Bourne guy. Parker's last 4 seasons reception totals have dropped from 72-63-40-31, and he just turned 30 years old. Tyquan hasnt proven himself a #2. Is Agholor still on the roster? He fucking blows.

Even if I call all those guys #2's, it's still a bad receiving corps, and I don't understand how anyone can argue differently. It's bad, it's not good, and compared to every playoff team in the league last year, except maybe the Giants, its fucking dreadful.

Gesicki and Henry cannot block. Henry has gone from 60 catches to 50 to 41 over the last 3 seasons. Gesicki's blocking is so bad that Miami could only put him on the field for 45% of their offensive snaps, and instead gave 57% of the offensive snaps to Durham Smythe at tight end. Gesicki had 32 catches for 362 yards and 5tds last season. The year before he came to New England, Jonnu had 41 for 448 and 8td's. Folks were excited about his pass catching ability, but once he got here, and Bill realized he couldn't block...What do we think Bill is going to do after Gesicki blows multiple blocking assignments early in the season.

This is a bad receiving corps, and in the case of the tight ends, they might be able to catch, but we're going to need a ball control offense given the dearth of actual weapons we have, and they can't block anyone.
I think they are going spread offense, and Gesicki will essentially be a big WR. Gesicki be the favorite target and have a career year in terms of catches and yards. In essence, he'll be the new Meyers. He won't be any better of a blocker but they won't be lining him up on the line. His snaps and catches fell in Miami because they had 2 great receivers - he was still #3 on the team in targets, catches, and TD catches.
Now that the draft has come and gone, what is your final grade? (For rounds 1-3, SoSH voted A- as the final grade.)

As the final grade, I upgraded from an A- to a solid A for getting some much-needed ST help in later rounds and bolstering the IOL depth.

Also, still can't believe Gonzalez fell to #17!
A for me as well. Yes, I would have liked a TE and an OT. But they drafted a lot of athleticism up and down the board. No Jordan Richards types. The days of watching Malcolm Bryant be forced into matchups he can't handle may be over. Kayshoun Boutte and Demario Douglas seem like great late round flyers at WR.
B+. Was ready to give a solid A/A+ with the curve, but they had Luepke sitting right there and they blew it. Drops about .5-.75 of a grade for me.
That seems like too much of a drop for one late round player.
 

j44thor

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
11,207
I'm honestly curious what TE you wanted them to draft, because almost everyone who went today I think would struggle to make the 53 next year. I like Durham the most of the ones who went today, but even him I think the upside is mostly JAG. He's nowhere near the class of the two guys we have and I doubt next year he'd be more than a backup. They missed the run yesterday, and that's fine, it happens and they chose to go with White.
Yeah I thought a couple TE were still available but the only one left on day 3 that I liked was Kuntz who went late to NYJ. Will be interesting to see if he amounts to anything.
 

Salva135

Cassandra
Oct 19, 2008
1,582
Boston
No real idea since I'm not a draft guy but I'll give it a B based on reading around a bit. This is the first draft I can recall in years that BB's first or second round picks weren't widely ridiculed around the league as reaches or head-scratchers, so I guess there's that. Kickers and punters in mid-rounds, D2 projects - sounds like a typical BB draft. I suspect this defense will end up being pretty good, but this offense is not going to score a lot of points and they're probably not going to win a lot of games.
 

Seels

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
5,009
NH
Still a B for me, though I could warm to B+

They did nothing to address the offense. Yea they got OL depth, and that's fine, but they need more than depth. I like that that they took a kicker and punter.

I could see liking this a lot more in a year or two. I've been down on the last few drafts though -- the last one I felt good about on draft day was 2012 or 2013. I do like this considerably more than last year's draft.
 

Shaky Walton

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 20, 2019
802
I know almost nothing about the draft prospects. I watch almost no college football and don't study the draft in advance.

But I agree with @Deathofthebambino inasmuch as I don't think that the Pats have helped themselves enough on offense in this draft and in free agency.

And the Mapu pick feels like a "smartest guy in the room" reach, and that annoys me.

Still, I like what I have read about the first two picks, upgrading P and K was important and they seemed to have done that, they added some potential on the O-line and Boutte is intriguing.

So....B.
 

brendan f

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2019
310
I think the grade has to be in the A range. They got top end talent at the beginning of the draft and didn't have any picks that were true reaches. If they can get Sow to play tackle and end up hitting on Boutte, it's a solid A. Funny to me that many seem happy with drafting a kicker and punter, two of the most fungible positions.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
35,511
I think the grade has to be in the A range. They got top end talent at the beginning of the draft and didn't have any picks that were true reaches. If they can get Sow to play tackle and end up hitting on Boutte, it's a solid A. Funny to me that many seem happy with drafting a kicker and punter, two of the most fungible positions.
I think K and P are very much not fungible personally. Good ST play is a huge advantage and teams that ignore it always seem to fail.
 

67YAZ

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2000
8,984
A-

First two picks generated 2 potential high impact defenders, guys with pro-bowl talent

There’s a lot to like about Mapu, though I don’t like how his injuries during draft season limited his workouts. But moving from a small school the NFL means he’ll have access to resources and coaching he never knew existed.

We’ll see how they manage the 7 other players brought in (beside the kicker & punter, which were necessities). Their athletic profiles are very strong. Collectively, they should make camp very spicy and competitive. But it’s going to take some creative roster management to keep everyone they like and hold on to the current developmental players on the squad. But that’s what camp is for!

I wish they had been a bit more aggressive in getting one of the 9+ RAS tackles or TEs. But so it goes.

a couple teams I though earned A+:

Philly - holy hell. A bunch of great athletes from top programs plus Swift, who profiles as a perfect fit in their scheme. I still think Carter has a significant chance to flame out, but this is probably the very best place for him to land. He’s got amazing veteran leadership and 3 former teammates in his position group. There’s going to be a lot of folks around to hold Carter accountable, support him, and mentor him. Hopefully the kid makes the most out of this opportunity.

Indy - kept their powder dry, didn’t make a big trade up, and still landed a QB with elite potential. And then they went and added some of the very best athletes in the draft round after round. Their camp is going to be a lot faster and more physical this year. Not a lot of polished, day one starters here, but if Richardson and a handful of the other hit, this is a franchise changing draft.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,728
I went with A-:

Gonzalez at 17 plus a pick was a tremendous job of BB and team of reading the draft.

Keion White looks like he could be an early contributor. Versatile DL who could be a starter within next 1-2 years.

I like the idea of Mapu. No knowledge of him before the draft so hope he’s another Dugger.

Zero idea about the OL picks but they appear to have decent talent. Realistically, just hoping to go 1 for 3 there.

Kicker and punter look promising but we’ll have to see how they respond to camp. Such a crapshoot, especially kickers. Many elite college kickers just can’t handle the pressure of the NFL.

Love…LOVE the Boutte pick. Hope he’s another Jakobi steal. No idea about Douglas. Feels like a PS or cut but we’ll see.

Speed and Bolden have nice athletic profiles, which is all you can ask for. Knowing BB, he’ll probably hit on one of them.

Loved the Malik Cunningham UDFA pickup. Saw him quite a bit as a BC fan and he was electric.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
52,162
I feel like we all kind of wish just once that BB would do a whole draft going chalk and grabbing the highest rank guys at the biggest positions of need and just seeing how it goes. Glad that is kind of how it fell in 1-2.

I haven’t paid close attention this year but seems like the Eagles did that this year. The Ravens tend to do it as well and always get high marks but hard to say how well it ends up panning out.
 

streeter88

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 2, 2006
1,816
Melbourne, Australia
I haven’t read all the comments, but my overall grade doesn’t change from rounds 1-3 simply because we did not address OT or TE. As well, waiting until Round 5 or 6 to add offensive players is a flawed strategy.
 

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
9,072
Philly
This was not a good OT class. It was hard to find prototypes for them in it at any range of the draft. I didn’t think any of the round 1-2-3 guys were slam dunk fits or even good value.

The one guy though I would have taken was Tucker Kraft over Marte Mapu. That one bothers me. I assume they had a really high grade on Mapu though and I can see why. Still stings though.
 

Salva135

Cassandra
Oct 19, 2008
1,582
Boston
The best part about the NFL cycle is that in 3 months we'll completely forget anything that anyone ever said about any draft for any team.
 

Salva135

Cassandra
Oct 19, 2008
1,582
Boston
I voted A. This year's picks seem to reflect Belichick's philosophy from years ago: build a strong defense, couple that with a ball-control offense, and win with turnovers and special teams.

A ball-control offense implies a team that can get first downs and complete third downs. This team was bottom-10 in both categories last year. The formula works when you have Tom Brady. This offense is anything but ball-control when it goes three and out over and over. If this is BB's plan for the year, this is going to be ugly unless BOB and Mac find some sort of magic.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
35,511
A ball-control offense implies a team that can get first downs and complete third downs. This team was bottom-10 in both categories last year. The formula works when you have Tom Brady. This offense is anything but ball-control when it goes three and out over and over. If this is BB's plan for the year, this is going to be ugly unless BOB and Mac find some sort of magic.
And 2 years ago with significantly less talent that they have now they were top 10 in both. Coaching, injuries, and poor execution hurt a lot last year.
 

Salva135

Cassandra
Oct 19, 2008
1,582
Boston
And 2 years ago with significantly less talent that they have now they were top 10 in both. Coaching, injuries, and poor execution hurt a lot last year.
And one year ago the starting QB got benched because he was completely ineffective.

You know what? I'm not going to engage in this with you. If "coaching, injuries, and poor execution" is the problem with the offense, then we're not on the same plane of observation.
 

RG33

Certain Class of Poster
SoSH Member
Nov 28, 2005
7,320
CA
They smashed rounds 1 and 2. They got legit K and P that solve massive problems. They took some flyers on legit WR and OL prospects. I am all in with my A+. Feels like 4-5 guys who 5 years from now will have played significant/regular roles — that is a superlative draft for me.
 

OldeBeanTowne

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
1,272
That seems like too much of a drop for one late round player.
I apologize. This was said in jest (mostly ;)). However, I would've quite liked to have seen them draft him because I think he'd be an interesting athlete to watch play regularly and he was a draft binkie, so I was rooting hard for them to grab him.

Edit: I, too, am very excited about the way this draft turned out even though it didn't happen at all like I was hoping it would or how any of the myriad mock drafts I did turned out, but they really added a lot of potential talent, added roster competition, and, what I'm most excited about, athleticism. Pretty much all these guys, as has been mentioned, are athletes that have the raw abilities to change games on each play they're involved in. The roster has been lacking recently in that regard.

I think White may be my favorite pick. Also, since I didn't think Gonzalez or White would be available when they were picking, I didn't do any YouTube scouting before the draft on them. So I got that going for me.

@BigSoxFan I basically share your same perspective on things in post #118.
 
Last edited:

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
9,072
Philly
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSZL-33vvWo


If you want to check out Sidy Sow... hard to get a lot of his tape but follow the LG here. You can see his strengths and weaknesses on display. He is a tremendous run-blocker. He doesn't play with good awareness vs twists and stunts though in pass pro. Super athletic too.
 

brendan f

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2019
310
I think K and P are very much not fungible personally. Good ST play is a huge advantage and teams that ignore it always seem to fail.
Not sure you need to draft for it though. I don't think it's a terrible use of resources in the mid to late rounds and you have a much better chance of hitting on one than hitting on something like a TE or CB so I get the logic. There is evidence to back up not drafting one though, especially placekickers.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28990207/nfl-draft-conundrum-using-pick-kicker-complicated-decision
http://insidethepylon.com/football-science/football-statistics/2016/05/26/data-based-approach-drafting-kickers-punters/

As an aside, I am probably alone in thinking that finding high end talent at these positions only works to embolden BB's steadfast conservatism. Having Nick Folk kick 23 yard field goals won't win you many games, but it will lose you some. Teams with great offenses tend to (and should) deemphasize kicking (both punting and placekicking), so I'm not sure how important it is for them. Now I realize the Patriots are far from a great offense but the problem becomes somewhat cyclical and self-reinforcing. If I think my offense sucks and never take risks (on 4th down), my offense will suck.
 

Salva135

Cassandra
Oct 19, 2008
1,582
Boston
Not sure you need to draft for it though. I don't think it's a terrible use of resources in the mid to late rounds and you have a much better chance of hitting on one than hitting on something like a TE or CB so I get the logic. There is evidence to back up not drafting one though, especially placekickers.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28990207/nfl-draft-conundrum-using-pick-kicker-complicated-decision
http://insidethepylon.com/football-science/football-statistics/2016/05/26/data-based-approach-drafting-kickers-punters/

As an aside, I am probably alone in thinking that finding high end talent at these positions only works to embolden BB's steadfast conservatism. Having Nick Folk kick 23 yard field goals won't win you many games, but it will lose you some. Teams with great offenses tend to (and should) deemphasize kicking (both punting and placekicking), so I'm not sure how important it is for them. Now I realize the Patriots are far from a great offense but the problem becomes somewhat cyclical and self-reinforcing. If I think my offense sucks and never take risks (on 4th down), my offense will suck.
I think worrying about kickoffs when the entire division and half of the conference can run up and down our field for touchdowns (that we can't match) is a bit misplaced, but that's just me. We have Allen and Rodgers twice. FML.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
45,341
Melrose, MA
They did nothing to address the offense. Yea they got OL depth, and that's fine, but they need more than depth. I like that that they took a kicker and punter.
It may be worth noting that they have hit on immediate OL starters in the late rounds before: Mike Onwenu in the 6th (2020), Shaq Mason in the 4th (2015), David Andrews as a UDFA (2015). In higher rounds over that span they have hit Thuney (3rd, 2016), Wynn (1st, 2018), and Strange (1st, 2022).
And the Mapu pick feels like a "smartest guy in the room" reach, and that annoys me.
Maybe, but I would rather do a pick like that on an athelte than on a Tavon Wilson or Jordan Richards, so I'm good with it for now.
A ball-control offense implies a team that can get first downs and complete third downs. This team was bottom-10 in both categories last year. The formula works when you have Tom Brady. This offense is anything but ball-control when it goes three and out over and over. If this is BB's plan for the year, this is going to be ugly unless BOB and Mac find some sort of magic.
Part of the bet on the offense here is that O'Brien can take essentially the same personal with a couple of small upgrades and build something better than what Judge and Patricia could do.
Not sure you need to draft for it though. I don't think it's a terrible use of resources in the mid to late rounds and you have a much better chance of hitting on one than hitting on something like a TE or CB so I get the logic. There is evidence to back up not drafting one though, especially placekickers.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28990207/nfl-draft-conundrum-using-pick-kicker-complicated-decision
http://insidethepylon.com/football-science/football-statistics/2016/05/26/data-based-approach-drafting-kickers-punters/

As an aside, I am probably alone in thinking that finding high end talent at these positions only works to embolden BB's steadfast conservatism. Having Nick Folk kick 23 yard field goals won't win you many games, but it will lose you some. Teams with great offenses tend to (and should) deemphasize kicking (both punting and placekicking), so I'm not sure how important it is for them. Now I realize the Patriots are far from a great offense but the problem becomes somewhat cyclical and self-reinforcing. If I think my offense sucks and never take risks (on 4th down), my offense will suck.
I think that the Pats absolutely execrable punting last year with Bailey and Palardy, along with their inability to get touchbacks on kickoffs, might have made the difference in a couple of games. with all the picks they had this year I think it was worth it to draft a K and a P, if there were ones they liked.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
45,341
Melrose, MA
I think worrying about kickoffs when the entire division and half of the conference can run up and down our field for touchdowns (that we can't match) is a bit misplaced, but that's just me. We have Allen and Rodgers twice. FML.
In the final game, Buffalo beat the Pats 35-23. Allen had 3 TD passes and Nyheim Hines returned 2 kickoffs for TDs. A kicker who could get touchbacks might have made a difference there.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

Member
SoSH Member
May 11, 2011
10,504
NH
I think worrying about kickoffs when the entire division and half of the conference can run up and down our field for touchdowns (that we can't match) is a bit misplaced, but that's just me. We have Allen and Rodgers twice. FML.
Not understanding how important the kicking game is Fantasy Football mentality. Too put it as simply as I can, giving your opponent short fields to work with is bad.
I get wanting some new toys but the Pats did an amazing job. I voted A+. Possible number 1 corner? Check. A guy who might provide consistent interior pressure? Yup. Someone who profiles to be perfect to cover tight ends and anyone coming into the middle of the zone where they’ve been awful? Uh huh. Beef on the OL? Got it. A ridiculously high upside receiver? Actually, yes.
I would have liked them to grab one of the RBs or TEs, I thought both classes were pretty deep, but it’s not how the draft fell in their eyes. I think they nailed what they’ve needed on defense to put it over the top.
The offense will be fine. Patricia and Judge belonged nowhere near that side of the ball. It was a neat idea but it failed. Bill did what he always does and tries to ride it out, as stubborn as that is; I get it. Having a competent staff on that side of the ball is going to be a major difference. Those meetings are going to be more of what those guys are used to and not whatever the hell they were trying to do last year. No one was on the same page. BOB will bring alignment.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
25,289
Most of these picks will never produce anything of value for the New England Patriots. That's just a fact. And it doesn't mean they "blew it" in the draft, because that's the reality for the vast majority of teams, every single year. What would make this a successful draft is if they picked a handful of players who end up contributing for the team - maybe one pro bowler, a couple of starters, and a couple of guys who play some for a handful of years. That would be successful. What would make this draft a home run is if they drafted a couple of pro bowlers and maybe 4-5 guys who start for them, along with a couple more who contribute.

So....

- Gonzalez - total stud, should start from day one (or close to it) and be a fixture in the secondary for years and years. All Pro potential (will be difficult to realize that potential because there's other really good CBs in the NFL obviously, but he has that kind of ability).

- White - physical specimen who really, really has talent. I can see him excelling opposite Judon right away and being a starter. They now have four excellent rushers in Judon, Uche, White, and Wise. Pro Bowl potential.

- Mapu - I didn't know much about the guy and when they drafted him I initially had that, "Wait, who?" reaction. But it didn't take very long before I was sold on this guy. The ESPN talking heads LOVED the pick, which meant at least that he was a guy they had done their homework on. And the more I read about him the more I thought, this guy could be a huge weapon for them. We'll see how it shakes out but still. Tons of ability.

- The offensive linemen - Andrews plays G or C and the write up on him was solid. Sow plays G or T and looks like an absolute mauler. Mafi may not have the lateral quickness I'd like in an OL, but he is powerful and blows people off the ball, so we'll see how that goes. I doubt all three will play for NE. I think it's pretty likely that two of them make the squad and are really good players when all is said and done. Now, I think they needed tackles more than interior OL, but it looks like Sow can move outside, and the Pats must be ok with what they have for the moment. All three of these guys look like they play mean.

- Boutte and Douglas - Boutte, as everyone has been saying, has absolute first round talent. His hands worry me a little with the drop rate, but the guy is EXPLOSIVE. And at 6'0", 205 lbs, he is strong. I think he could be a huge weapon for them, assuming he actually reaches the vast potential he has. But for a later round WR pick, it's hard to do much better than this. As for Douglas...I saw him in person when Liberty played UConn this year. UConn had a good defense this year (so it wasn't like playing 1-win UConn in past seasons). He had 8 receptions for 70 yards, and 2 rushes for 105 yards and a TD. He also added 3 kickoff returns for 53 yards, so he finished with 228 all purpose yards. He's small (just 165 pounds) but quick and has good burst. For another late round WR pick, he's got a shot here.

- The corners - Aside from Gonzalez, they picked up Speed and Bolden at corner. Speed is very big for a corner (6'3", 210) and plays with physicality. Bolden is better served as an outside corner. Both have talent. We know how good NE is at developing corners so both of these guys have a shot too.

- The kicking game - I mean....I couldn't believe they traded up to draft a kicker. I absolutely HATE that whole concept. Sometimes BB just drive me absolutely crazy during these drafts. And then on top of it, he drafted a punter too. WTF? So ok, I need to get over that and look at whether these guys are any GOOD. And it turns out.....at least in college, both were excellent. And the Patriots definitely need improvement at K and P. As we all know by now, the last team to draft both a kicker and punter in the same draft was the Raiders back in the day when they picked Janikowski and Lechler - two all pros, as it turned out. Obviously nobody is saying this will happen with NE, but if at the end of the day, these guys play 10 years for the Patriots at a high level, we won't care that they were drafted way higher than they ought to have been. And I think there's a real chance of this. Would be nice to pay our special teams guys peanuts, right? Because they're paying Slater a fair amount, and their long snapper a fair amount, etc.


Long story short, I absolutely can see a world where this turns out to be a home run, never mind just a "successful" draft. They drafted tons of talent and tons of athleticism and even though they didn't get a tackle, or an early round WR, or a TE, they DID address WR with two guys who have a real chance, and some OL that will help. So long story short....I give them an A. Not an A+, because they did some things that still had me shaking my head, but still. In the end....a job well done. Oh, and adding Cunningham at QB as an UDFA....just the cherry on top.

Now let's get this show on the road.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,513
As for the P/K picks: the Pats ended up with 9 day 3 picks. Based on their position, at most 1 or 2 position players picked in those slots will become regular contributors, reserves, and/or special teamers in their rookie season (and if 1 or 2 more become regular contributors after that, then Bill would have hit an absolute home run). The rest will be either riding the practice squad shuffle, placed on IR, or will be cut outright. So using 2 of those picks on specialists, especially when those roster spots are an area of serious need, is not at all a bad use of resources.
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,868
Somewhere
Wondering about who the TE was that the Patriots wanted but didn’t get? Guessing it’s not LaPorta-Musgrave-Mayer because edges were also flying off the board and the Pats got what looks to be a decent one. That leaves Strange and Schoonmaker?
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
13,016
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
As for the P/K picks: the Pats ended up with 9 day 3 picks. Based on their position, at most 1 or 2 position players picked in those slots will become regular contributors, reserves, and/or special teamers in their rookie season (and if 1 or 2 more become regular contributors after that, then Bill would have hit an absolute home run). The rest will be either riding the practice squad shuffle, placed on IR, or will be cut outright. So using 2 of those picks on specialists, especially when those roster spots are an area of serious need, is not at all a bad use of resources.
Yeah, but they could have packaged those picks to either move up on Day 2 or move into Day 2. They didn't "end up" with 9 Day 3 picks, that was a deliberate choice.
 

Salva135

Cassandra
Oct 19, 2008
1,582
Boston
Not understanding how important the kicking game is Fantasy Football mentality. Too put it as simply as I can, giving your opponent short fields to work with is bad.
I get wanting some new toys but the Pats did an amazing job. I voted A+. Possible number 1 corner? Check. A guy who might provide consistent interior pressure? Yup. Someone who profiles to be perfect to cover tight ends and anyone coming into the middle of the zone where they’ve been awful? Uh huh. Beef on the OL? Got it. A ridiculously high upside receiver? Actually, yes.
I would have liked them to grab one of the RBs or TEs, I thought both classes were pretty deep, but it’s not how the draft fell in their eyes. I think they nailed what they’ve needed on defense to put it over the top.
The offense will be fine. Patricia and Judge belonged nowhere near that side of the ball. It was a neat idea but it failed. Bill did what he always does and tries to ride it out, as stubborn as that is; I get it. Having a competent staff on that side of the ball is going to be a major difference. Those meetings are going to be more of what those guys are used to and not whatever the hell they were trying to do last year. No one was on the same page. BOB will bring alignment.
I understand the importance of the kicking game, I was mostly being facetious.

As for the bolded, that's a big bet you're placing. I'm placing the opposite. It doesn't mean I'm rooting for it, but I fundamentally disagree. "BB made an oopsie, it's all good" remains to be seen with our current QB. The division and conference is packed with ... eh, I'm out of WWII references to express what country we look like right now.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,513
Yeah, but they could have packaged those picks to either move up on Day 2 or move into Day 2. They didn't "end up" with 9 Day 3 picks, that was a deliberate choice.
But there also needs to be opportunity and desire to move up. There would have to be a player that the team liked in day 2, and a trading partner willing to do a deal for that particular slot. Sometimes a player that a team is closely watching comes off the board before they can even arrange a deal.

So, yes, it was a deliberate choice. But one that likely had very good reasons behind it.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
45,341
Melrose, MA
- Gonzalez - total stud, should start from day one (or close to it) and be a fixture in the secondary for years and years. All Pro potential (will be difficult to realize that potential because there's other really good CBs in the NFL obviously, but he has that kind of ability).
I agree. I also think that he's likely to be a good fit alongside what we have. Has some size, so can handle certain assignments that we would not want to give to our smaller young CBs. Maybe he is the CB who gets single coverage assigments so that other CBs can have more help. He's not known for INTs, but we have others (Marcus and Jack Jones) who may be better at that.
White - physical specimen who really, really has talent. I can see him excelling opposite Judon right away and being a starter. They now have four excellent rushers in Judon, Uche, White, and Wise. Pro Bowl potential.
Does White start, with 3 other edge rushers? I am wondering if he is more of a developmental pick/eventual replacement? Maybe because of his sie he is in the base defense (that seldom plays because the league is so passing oriented)? Inside sub-rusher is a role for him, but would he knock Wise out of the front four on passing downs?
Mapu - I didn't know much about the guy and when they drafted him I initially had that, "Wait, who?" reaction. But it didn't take very long before I was sold on this guy. The ESPN talking heads LOVED the pick, which meant at least that he was a guy they had done their homework on. And the more I read about him the more I thought, this guy could be a huge weapon for them. We'll see how it shakes out but still. Tons of ability.
Another developmental guy? But I like this because of athleticism.

My brother commented to me that White and Mapu are either "tweeners" or "multiple" depending on whether they pan out or not. Lol.

The offensive linemen - Andrews plays G or C and the write up on him was solid. Sow plays G or T and looks like an absolute mauler. Mafi may not have the lateral quickness I'd like in an OL, but he is powerful and blows people off the ball, so we'll see how that goes. I doubt all three will play for NE. I think it's pretty likely that two of them make the squad and are really good players when all is said and done. Now, I think they needed tackles more than interior OL, but it looks like Sow can move outside, and the Pats must be ok with what they have for the moment. All three of these guys look like they play mean.

- Boutte and Douglas - Boutte, as everyone has been saying, has absolute first round talent. His hands worry me a little with the drop rate, but the guy is EXPLOSIVE. And at 6'0", 205 lbs, he is strong. I think he could be a huge weapon for them, assuming he actually reaches the vast potential he has. But for a later round WR pick, it's hard to do much better than this. As for Douglas...I saw him in person when Liberty played UConn this year. UConn had a good defense this year (so it wasn't like playing 1-win UConn in past seasons). He had 8 receptions for 70 yards, and 2 rushes for 105 yards and a TD. He also added 3 kickoff returns for 53 yards, so he finished with 228 all purpose yards. He's small (just 165 pounds) but quick and has good burst. For another late round WR pick, he's got a shot here.

- The corners - Aside from Gonzalez, they picked up Speed and Bolden at corner. Speed is very big for a corner (6'3", 210) and plays with physicality. Bolden is better served as an outside corner. Both have talent. We know how good NE is at developing corners so both of these guys have a shot too.
I like adding depth on the line. The late corners feel like ST/practice squad, but, again, they are going for athleticism with these picks which is good. Some PS guys eventually do develop into quality players.

The two WRs seem like good flyers to take in round 6. Douglas is maybe the Pats tradtional small slot if he works out? Plus a potential kick returner? Boutte has much better than 6th round tools but some injury/character concerns. These are good ways to use 6th round picks.
Long story short, I absolutely can see a world where this turns out to be a home run, never mind just a "successful" draft. They drafted tons of talent and tons of athleticism and even though they didn't get a tackle, or an early round WR, or a TE, they DID address WR with two guys who have a real chance, and some OL that will help. So long story short....I give them an A. Not an A+, because they did some things that still had me shaking my head, but still. In the end....a job well done. Oh, and adding Cunningham at QB as an UDFA....just the cherry on top.
I went with A as well.
Yeah, but they could have packaged those picks to either move up on Day 2 or move into Day 2. They didn't "end up" with 9 Day 3 picks, that was a deliberate choice.
Do we know that there were deals there to be had?

But also, I have felt in recent years as if the Pats were short on depth in key areas (secondary and OL for example, Oh God Malcolm Bryant has to cover who?) and this looks like some effort to shore those areas up.
 

Justthetippett

New Member
Aug 9, 2015
2,807
It may be worth noting that they have hit on immediate OL starters in the late rounds before: Mike Onwenu in the 6th (2020), Shaq Mason in the 4th (2015), David Andrews as a UDFA (2015). In higher rounds over that span they have hit Thuney (3rd, 2016), Wynn (1st, 2018), and Strange (1st, 2022).

Maybe, but I would rather do a pick like that on an athelte than on a Tavon Wilson or Jordan Richards, so I'm good with it for now.

Part of the bet on the offense here is that O'Brien can take essentially the same personal with a couple of small upgrades and build something better than what Judge and Patricia could do.

I think that the Pats absolutely execrable punting last year with Bailey and Palardy, along with their inability to get touchbacks on kickoffs, might have made the difference in a couple of games. with all the picks they had this year I think it was worth it to draft a K and a P, if there were ones they liked.
If you want to have a chance to slown down the offenses in the division you need a good defense and a good special teams. I'm glad they made investments there. If Boutte shows anything and gets over his dropsies, this will be a real good draft. I trust them to get what they can out of the late round DBs and OL.
 

Salva135

Cassandra
Oct 19, 2008
1,582
Boston
If you want to have a chance to slown down the offenses in the division you need a good defense and a good special teams. I'm glad they made investments there. If Boutte shows anything and gets over his dropsies, this will be a real good draft. I trust them to get what they can out of the late round DBs and OL.
... you need an offense that can go tit for tat. You're delusional if you think anything else wins consistently. How many times do the Bills need to blow the Pats off the field in a playoff game?
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,513
... you need an offense that can go tit for tat. You're delusional if you think anything else wins consistently. How many times do the Bills need to blow the Pats off the field in a playoff game?
So the answer is to add more mediocre offensive players to a mediocre offense?

Roster rebuilds are often multiyear efforts. We've seen Patriots teams with highly talented offenses fall short due to defensive issues, and that wasn't that long ago. And the Bills were held to 10 points by the Bengals defense in the final game of their playoff season.
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2015
5,465
I'm probably over-thinking this, but in the context of more limited practice/camp time these days, particularly in pads and game situations, I was wondering about the strategy of throwing a lot of darts versus packaging picks and moving up for the higher probability to hit. Do they have enough time to evaluate all the players they threw darts at to make good decisions about who makes the final roster?
 

Saints Rest

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
After the first three rounds (maybe even after the first), the draft seems to be a huge crapshoot so the more bites at the Apple the better.
I think too often we grade drafts on the number of misses, but the number of hits is all that matters.

I wonder if the plan is to put the new guards into a competition for RG with a plan to move Onwenu back to RT.