A good amount of this was bad timing. At various points over the previous few years, they had Daboll, Chad O'Shea, Jedd Fisch, etc. on the staff. But when McDaniels left, they didn't have an obvious successor, and several of the veteran coaches (the above plus Scar and Fears) were gone, too.
I don’t know if this is a trick question, but it seems like the answer is generally between 1-2 years. Burrow went to the SB in year 2, his first full season. Lamar Jackson won 13 games his first full year. Lawrence showed dramatic growth in year two. Herbert has improved in years 2 and 3. Allen has improved each year.
I'm more or less in this camp as well (I"m also in the school of thought that BB thought Saban was going to let BOB join the Pats for 2022 and Saban or BOB changed their mind about it too late in the off-season to get a much better option)
He's still been rolling with this recently.
I mean, the conversation was sparked by a post that said "but even at his best, he was never more than a competent GM"
I think the answer is 2-3 years. Burrows was 2 years, Lamar was 1 year. Lawrence was year 2. Herbert is still developing and getting better over 3 years, Allen was 3 seasons. Tua and Miami are in year 3. That's only the first part of the equation though. The second part is building the team around that young QB.
This is my thinking too. I don't have anything to back it up, just a hunch. I've always thought that there was a handshake agreement last year that BOB would be the OC this year and therefore BB couldn't hire a true OC last year. He then had to take an unorthodox route to the offensive coaching. A while ago, on another thread, this was mentioned and another member said it would be criminal for BB to do this and punt on a year. However, I think that if Patricia and Judge were his actual plan going forward for multiple years, that was much more criminal.
It's not premature. It was Patricia's fault. The offense was sloppy and a mess and committed a lot of stupid penalties, too.
I don't think some of you have a grasp of where this team is relative to the division and conference, and where Mac is relative to the young QB talent in this league. I mean, maybe it really was all Patricia's fault and BOB will be the savior, but my prediction is a lot of finger-pointing by the end of this season. I hope I'm wrong (even if you don't believe that).
Yeah, I think the verdict is in as well. It was a disaster. To the point that basic sideline/game mechanics were a complete embarrassment. Not getting the correct play called and communicated to Mac in a timely fashion, frequently having to rush the snap before play clock expired, pedestrian, vanilla calls in critical situations, etc. If just those things get cleaned up this year, it should result in a noticeably more productive and efficient offense.
The Pats were a playoff team in 2021. Their defense should be very solid. This team could definitely make the playoffs this season. I don't think they are SB contenders, they just don't have the talent relative to the best teams in the NFL. But this is Bill Belichick. I don't think he's lost his fastball, outside of the mystifying Patricia hire.
The AFC is pretty stacked. With Payton in Denver, it's possible that the only teams the Patriots can claim to be better than are the Colts, Texans, Titans (maybe?), and Raiders.
I disagree. We've been pointing out that this team is not a 4 win talent team throwing parlor tricks out to win 7-8 games. We've been saying the drafts are better than you think and in line with that study done by Baseball Jones. In other words, they had the talent to win 7-10 games each year. Mac's first year they won 10, last year we know what happened with Jones and the coaching staff and they were one quarter away from the playoffs. But, as far as team building is concerned, they have the defense, ST, and enough for a top 15 offense. That is enough talent to win anywhere from 9-11 games, especially with this year's draft.
I'm pretty optimistic about this year's team as well. I think the defense was good, you're adding more players than you're substracting, Jones will be more like the 2021 version, and the draft looks possibly pretty good. I also think as tough as the AFC and AFC east looks a bunch of those teams are going to unexpectedly struggle with injuries, aging, whatever. Mahomes and Allen are going to slow down sometimes; Kelce (33 turning 34 this season) and Tyreek Hill (29) and Diggs (29 turning 30 this season) aren't going to be unstoppable forever, etc.
I think we all have a grasp where the team is but your agreements why are lazy and takez. I expect the Pats to be between 8-9 and 10-7 at best.
Why is expecting the Pats win win 8-10 games any less of a hot take? Would people here be surprised if the Pats go 0-6 in the division this year? How many weeks will they be favored? 4?
It’s not. The issue here is one poster just yelling they suck at drafting and refusing to even read a word that’s been posted.
I think everyone has a grasp, it just may differ from yours, and you seem to be taking that very personally. You are saying words to defend your position — but offering no quantifiable reason or data, and when being presented with data (a 14 year sample size of Bb’s drafting record which was pretty great and lays a strong benchmark / baseline that so far, aligns really well with what he has done the last 10 years (hint: this would make the last 10 years pretty great too), you are owning up to the fact that despite posting the same thing over and over like 11 times, you don’t have enough time to read the data being put in front of you.
OL should be quite a bit better, and the defense should be solid, although I realize there are people here the doubt the latter point. Wouldn't be completely surprised to see some regression from one of the divisional rivals.
While I am definitely not as down on BB as PiaB is, the o-line has the potential of being substantially worse than last year. They only made one substantial addition, a 34 YO RT coming off a mediocre season for a bad team. Perhaps the departure of Wynn is addition by subtraction, but I see no reason to believe it'll be a team strength.
Between Reiff (I know) and Anderson and the teams draftees, there should be a lot more quality depth that can swing among multiple positions in the line. Continuity always helps in OL as well, and we should see some organic growth from Strange as he seems poised to make the typical leap between years 1 and 2.
How many impact players on the oline were available that the team reasonably could have afforded? How many teams have “impact” players at every position on their offensive line? Would you consider Brown, Strange, Andrews and Onwenu impact players? That’s a stout oline. RT was a turnstile and there was no depth. We’ve added a handful of players that will get the chance including some rookies, a possibly sneaky pick up in Anderson and one aging but solid vet in Reiff. Bill is doing a great job. There are a ton of options this year but because it wasn’t “insert big name here” it’s looked at like they just sat on their hands. Not calling you out specifically just the line of thinking.
Denver was much worse than NE last year, but gets a competent coach and they are better than NE? So head coaching matters but not the Patriots apparent upgrade at OC?
If the Patriots were to finish ahead of the Broncos, I wouldn't be surprised. The expected outcome as of July 20th, however, is that the Broncos will be better, as pretty much every book has the Broncos line at 8.5 and the Patriots line at 7.5.
Fournette can catch passes so he might have some value there but dude looks pretty cooked running the ball. I’m still holding out hope for Dalvin but know that’s very unlikely.
I get it. And lots of folks will place money on it. And casinos will get bigger.
Well, what would you like from me? I made a statement about the perception of the team right now, and the likelihood that they will make the playoffs in a crowded field. Popular opinion backs me up.
Nothing. There was no shot at you. I said the Broncos were much worse than NE last year, and got a new coach but have the same shitty QB and now they're gonna be better than NE which also seems to have made a significant coaching improvement. It struck me as odd. You defended it.
Having a dedicated OL coach in Klemm instead of Patricia trying to fill the role, while also being OC, is a significant upgrade itself.
That's a very good point, and one I'd completely spaced on. I still don't expect it to be a strength, with Brown likely to remain a shell, but there's cautious optimism for competent play, at least.
I've been harping on this for awhile. Our offensive coaching wasn't even replacement level last year.
I'll echo the point about the value in having a F/T OL coach in Klemm. Moreover, I wonder (WARNING: dime-store sports psychologist at work) if Brown is the type who desperately needs someone riding his ass to be his best. I seem to recall quotes from and about Scar (maybe even from Brown himself) suggesting that. MP was like the gym teacher who is asked to teach geometry as a substitute for the week, and spends most of his time planning for gym class later in the day.
Some of the reporting suggests that pretty quickly MP went to full time offensive coordinator, Yates was basically the offensive line coach, and Judge was doing lord know what but whatever it was didn't involve interacting with players. That they inserted Klemm as the offensive line coach over Yates suggests to me that Yates was useful and good but not up to the task of head OL coach for some reason.
Seconded. There were so many times where the offense looked like it had to rush to get a play off because no one had any idea what was going on. I am also hopeful that BOB and Klemm can at least get the offense from "putrid" to "okay" and not only would that be a significant improvement, it would let the team at least make some noise. I like the D last year, but I always got the creeping sense that they were tired/angry/exhausted that they would stop the other team after a few series, then immediately be back on the field 40 seconds later after (another) 3 and out from the Pats. That is unsustainable.
Special teams were atrocious last year putting the defense in bad field position fairly often. Cam Achord is still in charge unfortunately but with a new punter and kicker we should see improvement.
Neither you nor I nor any of us know for sure if Cam Achord is still in charge-judge was reportedly doing a lot with special teams in the training camps
