2023 NFL Draft Official Game Thread (This is the thread WITH SPOILERS)

Jed Zeppelin

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I know it’s a tomorrow question but what RB should I be rooting for with one of our several 4th rounders?
 

DJnVa

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Also, I know we heard he won't be traded but Pats could call Denver again about Jeudy---#46 and one of the extra 4ths?
 

JM3

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I enjoyed this exchange with Tyree Wilson...

Reporter: Who are you most excited to sack?

Wilson: Like you said earlier, Patrick Mahomes.

Reporter: Do you have a message for Patrick Mahomes?

Wilson: No, no I do not.
 

67YAZ

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Must have written on the whiteboard with a non-erasable marker. Hate it when I do that.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Trade up for Josh Downs, trade back into the bottom of the second round for one of Bergeron/Steen/Dawand Jones. If OT starts going early, get one of those guys first, then trade back into the second for Mingo.
Kind of hoping we stay put and end up with Darnell Washington at 46.
I think Bill will go BPA for the most part, but in my ideal world where Bill has me on his draft team I'd be looking at these positions and guys with our 2 picks (we may move around or end up with 3 as well).

TE: Mayer, Washington, LaPorta, Musgrave, Schoonmaker, Kraft (think this is an ideal spot to see who is falling and grab one of the last 2.)
Edge: Foskey (my top guy), White, Adebawore, Ojulari
WR: AT Perry, Mingo, Tillman (not as big a Downs fan, but if he free-falls into the 3rd... sure)
OT: Steen, Morris, Warren
S: Branch, Martin, Brown(Sydney)

My ideal outcome would be coming out of the 2nd with one of: Foskey,Perry, Branch, Mingo, Washington, LaPorta, Then getting Steen in the 3rd. But any 2 of the guys above would make me happy, trading up into the late 3rd and getting 3 of them.... even better.
Thanks for the thoughts/Cliff notes guys!
 

ehaz

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I think Bill will go BPA for the most part, but in my ideal world where Bill has me on his draft team I'd be looking at these positions and guys with our 2 picks (we may move around or end up with 3 as well).

TE: Mayer, Washington, LaPorta, Musgrave, Schoonmaker, Kraft (think this is an ideal spot to see who is falling and grab one of the last 2.)
Edge: Foskey (my top guy), White, Adebawore, Ojulari
WR: AT Perry, Mingo, Tillman (not as big a Downs fan, but if he free-falls into the 3rd... sure)
OT: Steen, Morris, Warren
S: Branch, Martin, Brown(Sydney)

My ideal outcome would be coming out of the 2nd with one of: Foskey,Perry, Branch, Mingo, Washington, LaPorta, Then getting Steen in the 3rd. But any 2 of the guys above would make me happy, trading up into the late 3rd and getting 3 of them.... even better.
I like those outcomes. I think my optimal scenario is to take one of the top TEs and one of the top EDGEs. Something like Foskey/Ojulari and then LaPorta/Washington/Schoonmaker.
 

j44thor

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I'm hoping for some combo of Tillman, Mims and one of the many TEs available today. Don't want Mingo anywhere near 46 but if he is there in the mid-late third worth a flyer. Too much Nkeal in his game except Nkeal was productive in college unlike Mingo.
 

JM3

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I'm hoping for some combo of Tillman, Mims and one of the many TEs available today. Don't want Mingo anywhere near 46 but if he is there in the mid-late third worth a flyer. Too much Nkeal in his game except Nkeal was productive in college unlike Mingo.
Don't really see the Harry comp at all. Mingo is smaller, faster & a better route runner, & is much more of a slot than Harry.

Mingo could definitely easily fail, but I think it would be for different reasons.
 

Jimbodandy

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Don't really see the Harry comp at all. Mingo is smaller, faster & a better route runner, & is much more of a slot than Harry.

Mingo could definitely easily fail, but I think it would be for different reasons.
There was chatter amongst the talking heads about Mingo yesterday (forget who). I'm falling in love with A.T. Perry and hope that he falls.
 

j44thor

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Don't really see the Harry comp at all. Mingo is smaller, faster & a better route runner, & is much more of a slot than Harry.

Mingo could definitely easily fail, but I think it would be for different reasons.
Mingo is 6'2" 220 and Harry is 6'4" 225 so similar builds. Mingo is faster but neither are considered good separators and the big plus for both is they are great blockers. Mingo's college production was not good and college production is typically a good barometer of NFL success unless there was extensive injury concerns or other mitigating factors which really aren't the case with Mingo. He does have some upside but I think he has one of the lowest floors among WR expected to be drafted in day 2.
 

nattysez

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In the Patriots.com draft room video you can see Belichick watching UNC film in the background. Josh Downs?

View: https://twitter.com/patriots/status/1651925479346307073?s=46


View: https://twitter.com/nestpgs/status/1651936065362567171?s=46
BB wouldn't really be watching highlights in the draft room to try to decide whether to pick a guy, would he? Shouldn't that diligence have been done weeks ago so that you're essentially just picking from a list on draft day?
 

Van Everyman

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Can somebody explain how the machinations of Belichick trading from 14 to 17 to get one of the biggest steals of the draft while simultaneously screwing the Jets over by taking their OL pick off the board works in reality? That seems like some 4D chess shit.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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Per league sources, the #Patriots have made calls about moving up in round 2. With the amount of draft capital they have, especially in round 4, they have the potential to make a decent leap in both rounds 2 and 3.


View: https://twitter.com/MikeGiardi/status/1651983053688918017

View: https://twitter.com/MikeGiardi/status/1651983053688918017
Might have to if they have their hearts set on one of the TEs--not hard to imagine them disappearing as quickly as the OTs and WRs did last night.
 

Justthetippett

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BB wouldn't really be watching highlights in the draft room to try to decide whether to pick a guy, would he? Shouldn't that diligence have been done weeks ago so that you're essentially just picking from a list on draft day?
My guess is he had a thought come into his head and wanted to take another look. There's probably a lot of down time in those "war rooms" too. No doubt all the main prep has been done. BB probably watches random film at all hours and all places.
 

tims4wins

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My guess is he had a thought come into his head and wanted to take another look. There's probably a lot of down time in those "war rooms" too. No doubt all the main prep has been done. BB probably watches random film at all hours and all places.
Yeah agree with this. He's not just sitting there listening to Kiper for 3 hours. He watches film everywhere. On the treadmill. In bed. On a plane. Etc.
 

JM3

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Mingo is 6'2" 220 and Harry is 6'4" 225 so similar builds. Mingo is faster but neither are considered good separators and the big plus for both is they are great blockers. Mingo's college production was not good and college production is typically a good barometer of NFL success unless there was extensive injury concerns or other mitigating factors which really aren't the case with Mingo. He does have some upside but I think he has one of the lowest floors among WR expected to be drafted in day 2.
Mingo's production last year was ~fine, although most of it was against Vandy. The fact this was his 1st healthy season is troubling, though.

I totally get there is a pretty good chance of failure, I just think they're different types of players. I'll go with very poor man's AJ Brown instead lol
 

pappymojo

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Can somebody explain how the machinations of Belichick trading from 14 to 17 to get one of the biggest steals of the draft while simultaneously screwing the Jets over by taking their OL pick off the board works in reality? That seems like some 4D chess shit.
lucky that Washington took Forbes over Gonzalez at 16.
 

Norm Siebern

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So what is everybody's (realistic) best case scenario for tonight? I haven't followed this draft at all but obviously our offense is fucking putrid and we need OL help and also WR/TE. Who should I be hoping we grab, either at our spots or through a trade up?
Iv'e been performing ritual sacrifices to the football gods all morning in the hopes that the Patriots draft Darnell Washington, TE, Georgia. A man-mountain on legs, would upgrade both blocking and red zone TD proficiency immeasurably. Please please please please please.
 

Cellar-Door

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Can somebody explain how the machinations of Belichick trading from 14 to 17 to get one of the biggest steals of the draft while simultaneously screwing the Jets over by taking their OL pick off the board works in reality? That seems like some 4D chess shit.
Probably been having calls all week with teams in various pick ranges, so when they are on the clock they look at the board and say... What value difference do we have between these X guys we're considering? Do we see that as more or less than the value of what we know PIT will give us?

Like in this case it probably screwed the Jets, but I doubt that was ever really a consideration. Bill has shown many times he doesn't care about division rivals in trades, just getting the value he wants
 

Auger34

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I think Bill will go BPA for the most part, but in my ideal world where Bill has me on his draft team I'd be looking at these positions and guys with our 2 picks (we may move around or end up with 3 as well).

TE: Mayer, Washington, LaPorta, Musgrave, Schoonmaker, Kraft (think this is an ideal spot to see who is falling and grab one of the last 2.)
Edge: Foskey (my top guy), White, Adebawore, Ojulari
WR: AT Perry, Mingo, Tillman (not as big a Downs fan, but if he free-falls into the 3rd... sure)
OT: Steen, Morris, Warren
S: Branch, Martin, Brown(Sydney)

My ideal outcome would be coming out of the 2nd with one of: Foskey,Perry, Branch, Mingo, Washington, LaPorta, Then getting Steen in the 3rd. But any 2 of the guys above would make me happy, trading up into the late 3rd and getting 3 of them.... even better.
Is Adebawore an edge? I thought he was more of a 3 Technique?
 

pappymojo

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I know it’s a tomorrow question but what RB should I be rooting for with one of our several 4th rounders?
If you haven't read it yet, you should definitely check out the 2023 Draft Fits thread at the top of this page under the Wait Who? subthread. In particular, SMU_Sox's contributions are very detailed and enjoyable to read.

For lead backs, SMU lists Roschon Johnson (Texas) and Tiyon Evans (Louisville) as fits. Others on this board have mentioned Zach Charbonnet (UCLA) and Sean Tucker (Syracuse). SMU has also listed Evan Hull (Northwestern) and Eric Gray (Oklahoma) as receiving back fits.
 

67YAZ

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If you haven't read it yet, you should definitely check out the 2023 Draft Fits thread at the top of this page under the Wait Who? subthread. In particular, SMU_Sox's contributions are very detailed and enjoyable to read.

For lead backs, SMU lists Roschon Johnson (Texas) and Tiyon Evans (Louisville) as fits. Others on this board have mentioned Zach Charbonnet (UCLA) and Sean Tucker (Syracuse). SMU has also listed Evan Hull (Northwestern) and Eric Gray (Oklahoma) as receiving back fits.

Here's the defense and offense.

Incredible work by @SMU_Sox and the very best source on Pats fits.
 

DJnVa

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Can somebody explain how the machinations of Belichick trading from 14 to 17 to get one of the biggest steals of the draft while simultaneously screwing the Jets over by taking their OL pick off the board works in reality? That seems like some 4D chess shit.
Pats on clock at 14 and want Gonzalez and have decent ideas of who the Jets want at 15 (Jones) and know the Commanders are into Forbes at 16, so know they are safe to move back a few, especially if they also would have been happy with someone like JSN. They also know Steelers want Jones so they make a call or Steelers know the same intel and call NE.

On one of the shows I was listening to last night, they said when teams makes those kinds of calls it's SOP to let the team know your target so Pats knew Steelers weren't moving up to get Gonzalez.
 

pappymojo

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For tonight, I think I want OT and TE. In particular, I think the tight end class is deep at the top, but once the next five guys go, it dries up. I feel like the WR pool is deeper and that they can still get high quality receivers tomorrow. I don't think there will be many high quality tight ends available after tonight.
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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Pats on clock at 14 and want Gonzalez and have decent ideas of who the Jets want at 15 (Jones) and know the Commanders are into Forbes at 16, so know they are safe to move back a few, especially if they also would have been happy with someone like JSN. They also know Steelers want Jones so they make a call or Steelers know the same intel and call NE.

On one of the shows I was listening to last night, they said when teams makes those kinds of calls it's SOP to let the team know your target so Pats knew Steelers weren't moving up to get Gonzalez.
How do the Pats know the Jets won't take Gonzalez when the Steelers grab their choice? I'm guessing the Pats decided they would have been happy with one of at least 2 that they were almost certain would still be there? Otherwise, it's too risky not to just take Gonzalez at 14.
 

Pandemonium67

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I don't recommend reading @SMU_Sox. His stuff is so good you'll end up wishing like hell that the Pats draft about 17 guys you'd never heard of before and come away disappointed when they only get two of them. He's that good.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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How do the Pats know the Jets won't take Gonzalez when the Steelers grab their choice? I'm guessing the Pats decided they would have been happy with one of at least 2 that they were almost certain would still be there? Otherwise, it's too risky not to just take Gonzalez at 14.
You know they have numerous much bigger needs, haven’t been linked to CBs according to your whisper network, and drafted a shutdown corner with a top ten pick last year. Them passing on Gonzalez was a pretty safe bet.
 

DJnVa

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How do the Pats know the Jets won't take Gonzalez when the Steelers grab their choice? I'm guessing the Pats decided they would have been happy with one of at least 2 that they were almost certain would still be there? Otherwise, it's too risky not to just take Gonzalez at 14.
Do they 100% know? Of course not, but you gotta make educated guesses and assume things--like they aren't going CB first round 2 years in a row.
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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You know they have numerous much bigger needs, haven’t been linked to CBs according to your whisper network, and drafted a shutdown corner with a top ten pick last year. Them passing on Gonzalez was a pretty safe bet.
I guess they were ultimately correct if that was their thinking. But at some point when somebody slips enough you have to expect that a team might not be able to pass up the value.
 

DJnVa

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I guess they were ultimately correct if that was their thinking. But at some point when somebody slips enough you have to expect that a team might not be able to pass up the value.
Absolutely. But you cannot always play it safe. They took a shot and we're right.

 

Dogman

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I'm guessing having last years draft board up was done purposefully knowing full well they would be filmed during their pick.

Give nothing away, no days off. etc.
 

pappymojo

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Absolutely. But you cannot always play it safe. They took a shot and we're right.

Paris Johnson went to the Cardinals with the 6th pick. Anton Harrison, OT (27) and Nolan Smith, Edge (30) may have been in play at 17.
 

JM3

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Brad Holmes's press conference where he was like uhh no this doesn't say anything about how we feel about Swift he's totally on our team for now (paraphrasing) was pretty good foreshadowing for this.
 

67YAZ

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I think the Bears are going to be active trying to move up in the 2nd round tonight. They’ve got a cluster of picks at 53, 61, & 64 plus another lister tomorrow at 133, 136, & 148. And then extra picks next year, too.

They really need pass rush/DL help, so watch the Bears relative to the Pats targeting that same position group.

Man, that Claypool trade was dumb.
 

Justthetippett

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Cellar-Door

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I think there is basically zero chance the Patriots were locked in on Gonzales. If they were they take him 14. They may have had him 1st of 2-3 similar picks but 2 picks is a real risk if they locked on him. Jets may trade down once the OT tier ends, WAS could take him or trade down.
 

radsoxfan

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I think there is basically zero chance the Patriots were locked in on Gonzales. If they were they take him 14. They may have had him 1st of 2-3 similar picks but 2 picks is a real risk if they locked on him. Jets may trade down once the OT tier ends, WAS could take him or trade down.
Agreed. He was likely "in the mix" at 14 but no chance they had him as the clear pick.

Not enough benefit from moving back 3 spots to risk losing someone they really wanted.
 

Mystic Merlin

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More specifically, there is no reason to think they knew Washington - who they traded behind - preferred a different corner. Bill isn’t gonna risk that it if a guy he loves is the clear BPA at a premium position.
 

ehaz

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More specifically, there is no reason to think they knew Washington - who they traded behind - preferred a different corner. Bill isn’t gonna risk that it if a guy he loves is the clear BPA at a premium position.
You mean other than Matt Groh saying in his press conference last night that they pretty much knew Washington preferred Forbes? I mean I guess it could be spin but also...

View: https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/1651990524574806041?s=20


Makes me think they had Gonzalez and someone like Banks ranked similarly. I'm guessing they were exploring trade-ups in case someone else picked one or the other between 9 and 12, and then when that didn't happen, they were fine with trading out because they were sure they'd have either at 17.