2023 NBA Playoffs

[Euclis20]

I just watched the 4th quarter and on top of it all, the refs were desperately trying to save the Bucks, and they still blew it. Incredible.

In the final 12 seconds of regulation, the Bucks

-threw the ball away twice
-recovered the ball both times, one thanks to the refs and one thanks to a great save by Middleton
-still blew a 4 point lead

Then they threw the ball away again in the opening seconds of overtime, and again recovered it. I don't like when people debate whether team A won or team B lost (i.e. did the Falcons blow a 28-3 lead or did the Patriots execute a 28-3 comeback), I believe it's always 50-50, but the Bucks choked badly. Giannis has been widely see as the best player in the league for 3-4 years now, but he vomited all over himself for the last few minutes of this game. The missed free throws, the bad passes, that unbelievable foul on Strus from 30+ feet away from the basket...good thing for him he has that title.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Well, if Butler hit that 3 last year there’s your answer.

That was under 3 minutes, I believe. 15 point lead in less than 3 minutes lol.

 

[jon abbey]

That was so awful for Bucks fans, I noticed myself feeling nauseated on their behalf even though I wasn’t rooting for them. It got me wondering where this would rank within the context of awful Boston losses. It’s not up there with Buckner/Grady Little, since the franchise recently won a ring. The closest I could think of is games 4 and 5 of the 2004 ALCS from a Yankee fan’s perspective, since it involves the same quality of horrible script repeating itself two games in a row.

Not to change the topic, but that Yankee team had four rings and two other WS appearances in the previous 8 years, and BOS was better than them in both 2003 and 2004 (post trading deadline).

 

[Leon Trotsky]

In the final 12 seconds of regulation, the Bucks

-threw the ball away twice
-recovered the ball both times, one thanks to the refs and one thanks to a great save by Middleton
-still blew a 4 point lead

Then they threw the ball away again in the opening seconds of overtime, and again recovered it. I don't like when people debate whether team A won or team B lost (i.e. did the Falcons blow a 28-3 lead or did the Patriots execute a 28-3 comeback), I believe it's always 50-50, but the Bucks choked badly. Giannis has been widely see as the best player in the league for 3-4 years now, but he vomited all over himself for the last few minutes of this game. The missed free throws, the bad passes, that unbelievable foul on Strus from 30+ feet away from the basket...good thing for him he has that title.

Yes, and Gabe Vincent both made the 3 that enabled Jimmy Butler's miraculous tying shot AND made an absolute perfect pass to again enable Jimmy's shot. GABE VINCENT!

But still, the Bucks choked so so bad.

 

[jon abbey]

Yeah, the talent difference was as vast as you’ll ever see in a playoff series.

View: https://twitter.com/mikevorkunov/status/1651602671562883072?s=46&t=0GHHaPVUX26Io0V2HIcS0g

 

[jmcc5400]

It's amazing that we have access to as much as we do, but these videos don't capture the vibe of big comebacks because they leave out all the misses.

Yes, definitely one of those creeping dread games that knots your stomach even when it's not your team falling apart. For me it's always the moment where the once double digit lead has dwindled to 8 and then there's a three that gets it to 5. An 8 point lead feels reasonably comfortable - a stop and a bucket gets you to double digits again. But once its down to 5, oh fuck.

 

[Euclis20]

Jrue Holiday, in his 3 postseasons with the Bucks (40 games, a full half season sample), averages 18 points while shooting .396 from the field and .304 from 3 (TS% of .476). He's an excellent defender (easy to say even after Butler torched him to the tune of almost 38 ppg and 60% from the field), but I don't ever want to hear again how underrated he is. In the playoffs he's a bricklayer of the highest order, early career Smart would've been ashamed of those averages.

 

[the moops]

Yeah, the talent difference was as vast as you’ll ever see in a playoff series.

View: https://twitter.com/mikevorkunov/status/1651602671562883072?s=46&t=0GHHaPVUX26Io0V2HIcS0g

Yea, pretty much Jimmy Butler and 4 dudes

 

[Jimbodandy]

Yea, pretty much Jimmy Butler and 4 dudes

Jimmy and 4 dudes beat the Wolves' starters in practice too, repeatedly.

Leading to the Minnesota front office deciding to move Jimmy.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Jrue Holiday, in his 3 postseasons with the Bucks (40 games, a full half season sample), averages 18 points while shooting .396 from the field and .304 from 3 (TS% of .476). He's an excellent defender (easy to say even after Butler torched him to the tune of almost 38 ppg and 60% from the field), but I don't ever want to hear again how underrated he is. In the playoffs he's a bricklayer of the highest order, early career Smart would've been ashamed of those averages.

You could already suspect that spike in his rep was like a house of cards when you heard/read statements like ‘he’s clutch/hits big shots’, and not ‘he’s a very good offensive player.’

 

[InstaFace]

Low key best thing about league pass is being able to watch the in arena entertainment instead of commercials.

We've talked about starting a thread about this, ranking the various halftime balancing acts, juggling acts, dance routines, etc. Since we all have the video-on-demand to be able to go back and evaluate for ourselves, it seems like it'd be an active debate. Sometimes the baby race is the best action of the night.

 

[lovegtm]

Jimmy and 4 dudes beat the Wolves' starters in practice too, repeatedly.

Leading to the Minnesota front office deciding to move Jimmy.

Jimmy had a bit of a team-wrecker reputation after that and Philly, but he looks a lot better in hindsight, now that we've seen what cupcakes KAT and Simmons are.

 

[lovegtm]

Jrue Holiday, in his 3 postseasons with the Bucks (40 games, a full half season sample), averages 18 points while shooting .396 from the field and .304 from 3 (TS% of .476). He's an excellent defender (easy to say even after Butler torched him to the tune of almost 38 ppg and 60% from the field), but I don't ever want to hear again how underrated he is. In the playoffs he's a bricklayer of the highest order, early career Smart would've been ashamed of those averages.

I will not give the Bucks' title an asterisk, but everything else about them in the Bud era has been fraudulent and overrated. Regular season frontrunners who get over-rated going into EVERY. SINGLE. POSTSEASON.

"Historically great", "championship pedigree", blah blah blah.

And I don't even hate Giannis. I think he's a good guy who gets too favorable a whistle. The franchise's rep-to-results ratio has been ridiculous for 5 years now, however.

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

We've talked about starting a thread about this, ranking the various halftime balancing acts, juggling acts, dance routines, etc. Since we all have the video-on-demand to be able to go back and evaluate for ourselves, it seems like it'd be an active debate. Sometimes the baby race is the best action of the night.

Im a fan of the awkward kiss cam reactions myself.

 

[timelysarcasm]

I will not give the Bucks' title an asterisk, but everything else about them in the Bud era has been fraudulent and overrated. Regular season frontrunners who get over-rated going into EVERY. SINGLE. POSTSEASON.

"Historically great", "championship pedigree", blah blah blah.

And I don't even hate Giannis. I think he's a good guy who gets too favorable a whistle. The franchise's rep-to-results ratio has been ridiculous for 5 years now, however.

He needs to work on his bag. I think Embiid has surpassed him (outside of conditioning) and is just a smarter player offensively. Both of them employ the bulldoze to the basket move, but Embiid has a pretty reliable elbow jumper and has better post moves as well.

You could see last night that when Giannis couldn't get a full head of steam into the lane he was fizzled a lot.

 

[NomarsFool]

The radio guys this morning were talking about the Celtics lead as being similar to a 3 goal lead in hockey. Just ridiculous. Do they watch sports? In the 3 ball era, a double digit lead in basketball is nothing.

 

[the moops]

The radio guys this morning were talking about the Celtics lead as being similar to a 3 goal lead in hockey. Just ridiculous. Do they watch sports? In the 3 ball era, a double digit lead in basketball is nothing.

Yea, obviously it stings way more when you relinquish a double digit lead in the last minutes of the 4th, but throughout the games there are routinely double digit leads that get erased

 

[BaseballJones]

Jimmy Butler this series against the #1 seed and NBA champ favorite (I think they were) Milwaukee...

15-27 (.556), 35 points, 5 rebounds, 11 assists, 3 steals
8-12 (.667), 25 points, 3 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals
12-19 (.632), 30 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals
19-28 (.679), 56 points, 9 rebounds, 2 assists, 0 steals
17-33 (.515), 42 points, 8 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals

TOT: 71-119 (.597), 188 points, 30 rebounds, 23 assists, 9 steals
AVG: 14-24, 37.6 points, 6.0 rebounds, 4.6 assists, 1.8 steals

Just an incredible performance by Butler.

 

[Euclis20]

Jimmy Butler this series against the #1 seed and NBA champ favorite (I think they were) Milwaukee...

15-27 (.556), 35 points, 5 rebounds, 11 assists, 3 steals
8-12 (.667), 25 points, 3 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals
12-19 (.632), 30 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals
19-28 (.679), 56 points, 9 rebounds, 2 assists, 0 steals
17-33 (.515), 42 points, 8 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals

TOT: 71-119 (.597), 188 points, 30 rebounds, 23 assists, 9 steals
AVG: 14-24, 37.6 points, 6.0 rebounds, 4.6 assists, 1.8 steals

Just an incredible performance by Butler.

This was the highest scoring (by ppg) and most efficient (by field goal %) playoff series of his career, and he did it against a team with multiple all-NBA level defenders, and as the only member of his team able to consistently create their own offense. It really was something.

 

[BaseballJones]

This was the highest scoring (by ppg) and most efficient (by field goal %) playoff series of his career, and he did it against a team with multiple all-NBA level defenders, and as the only member of his team able to consistently create their own offense. It really was something.

Dude really is a helluva player.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Jimmy had a bit of a team-wrecker reputation after that and Philly, but he looks a lot better in hindsight, now that we've seen what cupcakes KAT and Simmons are.

The stories in Minnesota about Jimmy challenging a young KAT and Wiggins in practice are pretty legendary. That culture these two grew up in is such an awful and entitled environment for a young player. The latter got out and we have seen what he’s capable of doing…..KAT’a tenure there has probably overran its course by a couple years to the detriment of his career arc.

 

[m0ckduck]

The stories in Minnesota about Jimmy challenging a young KAT and Wiggins in practice are pretty legendary.

Do you have a link? I always hear references to these stories, but never anything concrete. (Not that I'm challenging the point,, just curious to read more).

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Do you have a link? I always hear references to these stories, but never anything concrete. (Not that I'm challenging the point,, just curious to read more).

No but maybe a search can find something. My recall is murky as it was awhile ago but on the practice session when he selected 4 G-League and/or bench guys to challenge the starters after practice and they refused….or quit halfway through. He wanted out quickly thereafter pretty much saying these kids had no idea what the NBA was about.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I'm amazed that this thread isn't full of "Bug has to go" stories. I don't see how he survives this.

 

[Euclis20]

I'm amazed that this thread isn't full of "Bug has to go" stories. I don't see how he survives this.

Yeah it feels like fait accompli at this point. It's unbelievable that he let regulation and OT end with those timeouts in his pocket (not that that will be the only reason he's fired, but it's a pretty loud way to end the year).

 

[jmcc5400]

Do you have a link? I always hear references to these stories, but never anything concrete. (Not that I'm challenging the point,, just curious to read more).

Here's one: https://dunkingwithwolves.com/2022/10/10/remembering-jimmy-butlers-infamous-timberwolves-moment/

Butler’s practice eruption became infamous overnight
After requesting a trade from Minnesota three weeks prior, Butler made his return to practice on Wednesday, October 10th, 2018, and he meant business.

Challenging both his teammates and the Timberwolves’ ownership, Butler teamed up with end-of-the-bench players and proceeded to dominate the team’s scrimmage during practice. According to reports, Butler only shot the ball once, but he put on a clinic in passing, blocking shots, and getting steals.

When the scrimmage was over, he reportedly left the gym while directing comments at then-General Manager Scott Layden. Butler told the GM that he needed him, and told him, “You can’t win without me.”

 

[m0ckduck]

Here's one: https://dunkingwithwolves.com/2022/10/10/remembering-jimmy-butlers-infamous-timberwolves-moment/

Right on, thanks.

 

[NomarsFool]

I remember a Celtics game when they were playing, Philadelphia I think?, and Kevin McHale was on as a guest color guy for a quarter. Well, they were coming back from a break and the camera was on Jimmy Butler, and McHale - who apparently didn't know his mic was on, made some rather disparaging remark about Butler (although, one couldn't be 100% certain that's who he was talking about). Anyone else remember that?

 

[m0ckduck]

Another thing that gets lost in the Bucks - Heat discussion is that Mil actually went on a 22-5 run to close out the 3rd quarter to build a 16 point lead. How can you roll a team that badly in one quarter and then go stone cold immediately in the next? Is it random variance? Psychological fear of the 4th quarter after the G4 debacle? Coaching moves that Spo was sitting on until the 4th started? I don't get it.

edit: AND Butler is still on the bench to start the 4th. Why does Mil go cold here? I'll never understand this game.

 

[m0ckduck]

Giannis has been widely see as the best player in the league for 3-4 years now, but he vomited all over himself for the last few minutes of this game.

Agree 100%. And yet, we're still talking about a guy who finished with 38 points and 20 rebounds., while hitting over half his shots.

This game was just flabbergasting.

 

[TrapperAB]

Agree 100%. And yet, we're still talking about a guy who finished with 38 points and 20 rebounds., while hitting over half his shots.

This game was just flabbergasting.

When I heard those numbers this morning, my gast was flabbered. I watched the game, but really focused as the Titanic was sinking in the 4th. All I saw was Giannis driving wildly out of control, and getting nowhere… posting up, but flailing… taking short jumpers and front-rimming them. Thought for sure that he had been struggling all game — because of the injury, being winded, trying to do too much.

It was the 4th that colored my perception, of course. 1-8. And all the missed free throws. Epic collapse.

 

[m0ckduck]

When I heard those numbers this morning, my gast was flabbered. I watched the game, but really focused as the Titanic was sinking in the 4th. All I saw was Giannis driving wildly out of control, and getting nowhere… posting up, but flailing… taking short jumpers and front-rimming them. Thought for sure that he had been struggling all game — because of the injury, being winded, trying to do too much.

It was the 4th that colored my perception, of course. 1-8. And all the missed free throws. Epic collapse.

He missed 13 free throws! Give him his career average 70% free throw shooting and his stat line would be 44 / 20. The Bucks win going away, and we're talking about his ongoing post-season dominance.

edit: he missed 13 FTs in a game where Miami attempted 17. Bonkers.
.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

No but maybe a search can find something. My recall is murky as it was awhile ago but on the practice session when he selected 4 G-League and/or bench guys to challenge the starters after practice and they refused….or quit halfway through. He wanted out quickly thereafter pretty much saying these kids had no idea what the NBA was about.

That example speaks volumes about both him and them....and their respective success now is totally consistent with it as well.

 

[TrapperAB]

edit: he missed 13 FTs in a game where Miami attempted 17. Bonkers.
.

YIKES. Shit's contagious, too. Holiday missed two in the 4th quarter, one with 2 seconds left.

 

[mostman]

This is some deep shit going down on Inside the NBA, discussing the Giannis comments.

 

[Ale Xander]

This is some deep shit going down on Inside the NBA, discussing the Giannis comments.

Details???

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

This is some deep shit going down on Inside the NBA, discussing the Giannis comments.

It was a fantastic and thoughtful discussion.

 

[mostman]

Details???

If you heard the Giannis comments, it was an extension on that. Reflection from the panel on what failure means in sports, and the damage viewing losing as failure does to our culture. It was all pretty erudite. Shaq was a bit of an exception.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Here is the Giannis quote:

"Oh my god. You asked me the same question last year, Eric ... okay? Do you get a promotion every year? In your job? No, right? So every year you work is a failure? Yes or no? No. Every year you work, you work towards something, towards a goal — which is to get a promotion, to be able to take care of your family, provide a house for them, or take care of your parents. You work towards a goal — it’s not a failure. It’s steps to success. I don’t want to make it personal. There’s always steps to it. Michael Jordan played 15 years, won six championships. The other nine years was a failure? That’s what you’re telling me. I’m asking you a question, yes or no? Exactly. So why you ask me that question? It’s the wrong question.”

 

[mostman]

Here is the Giannis quote:

People should check out the video in there.

 

[JCizzle]

People should check out the video in there.

It's a great answer.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

People should check out the video in there.

Indeed. Its a great perspective.

 

[lovegtm]

Giannis is going to get a lot of practice giving thoughtful answers like that the next couple years, given the age and contract status of the roster.

 

[timelysarcasm]

Here's the full discussion from last night, it's pretty good (except Shaq, per ushe):

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI6vsaZZDJc

 

[lovegtm]

Does anyone else feel like this is all headed to a GSW rematch? Hard for me to shake the feeling when I watch the Warriors' offense clicking, and Wiggins looking fresh.

 

[jmcc5400]

Does anyone else feel like this is all headed to a GSW rematch? Hard for me to shake the feeling when I watch the Warriors' offense clicking, and Wiggins looking fresh.

Definitely see Golden State coming out of the west.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Here's the full answer. Agreed that it should be watched. The main statement: "There is no failure in sports."

View: https://twitter.com/cjzero/status/1651456934237687808

 

[coremiller]

Do you have a link? I always hear references to these stories, but never anything concrete. (Not that I'm challenging the point,, just curious to read more).

View: https://twitter.com/mdotbrown/status/1651984084057325569?s=46&t=EWPep2z4ici4wioJTFoCPA

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

Does anyone else feel like this is all headed to a GSW rematch? Hard for me to shake the feeling when I watch the Warriors' offense clicking, and Wiggins looking fresh.

100%.
I'd really like it not to be them, but I can't see it being anyone but them.

 

[benhogan]

When it went bad for Jimmy in Philly....I suggest anyone that is an NBA fan listen to the entire interview

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciKdF97JWpU