2023-24 Yankees Offseason Discussion

jon abbey

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Kay rants as superficially and ignorantly as most of Yankee Twitter. The frustrating thing is there are plenty of things to legitimately critique.
 

EvilEmpire

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Kay plays to the crowd. Often enough with a wink and a nod involved. Pissed off fans are the most engaged ones after the season the Yankees just had.

It's just business.
 

jon abbey

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Also I'm not sure about the depth of his Yankee system knowledge, which is kind of amazing for someone who has to spend as much time immersed in it as he does.

Pro- or con- Cashman, one thing he is not getting nearly enough credit for is his remarkable rebuilding of the high level SPs. NY had a good crop of pitching prospects who weren't moving super fast through the system, and then coupled with losing 2020 entirely as a minor league system, they had been on the 40 man for years running out of options and not quite ready to contribute. Cashman moved all of these guys (he traded 10 pitchers at the deadline in 2022) and restocked with a new crop who look incredible, but the most important/amazing thing is that they all seem ready to potentially contribute but don't even need to be added to the 40 man yet this winter, as they're all 2021 and 2022 picks. Will Warren and Richard Fitts in AAA, Drew Thorpe (voted overall MiLB pitcher of the year across all 30 teams in his first professional season) and Chase Hampton in AA. This is an incredible achievement and noticed by too few.
 

jon abbey

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If NY is able to trade for Soto (I'll believe it when I see it but they are a good match on paper), it will be in large part because of what I just wrote about above, their SP depth in the high minors. They just lost Severino and Montas to FA and dumped German, they still have:

Cole
Rodon
Cortes
King
Schmidt

Brito
Vasquez
Warren
Gomez
Beeter
Fitts
Thorpe
Hampton

All of whom could potentially slot in MLB rotations this year. NY could include 3 of the bottom 10 guys listed there (hopefully not King or Warren) for Soto plus Everson Pereira as a replacement, that fills four SD roster holes while adding very little money and taking his estimated $30M salary off their hands. Hopefully they don't have to take Cronenworth's deal too as he doesn't seem like a great fit.
 

jon abbey

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After bouncing around some post-NYY, Gary Sanchez just put up a great partial season for SD, 2.4 bWAR in 240 ABs, including strong defensive numbers. Very curious where he ends up this winter…
 

jon abbey

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Now that the WS is over though, every day that they remain 1 of 30 on outdated facial hair rules is a disappointment to me. It is such an easy fix and such a good start to an important offseason. Maybe if Jordan Montgomery was allowed his current beard in NY, he could have battled his way higher in the pecking order and not been traded.
 

ThePrideofShiner

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That Kay clip reminded me that I forgot about Cashman's worst recent trade: getting rid of Gio to get racist, horrible Jodo and IKF!

Kay may be playing to fans, but Cashman's recent track record on trades is brutal.
 

Van Everyman

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Now that the WS is over though, every day that they remain 1 of 30 on outdated facial hair rules is a disappointment to me. It is such an easy fix and such a good start to an important offseason. Maybe if Jordan Montgomery was allowed his current beard in NY, he could have battled his way higher in the pecking order and not been traded.
It's gotta be some weird tribute to the Boss, right?
 

jon abbey

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Just a quick note that there are rumors floating this AM that NY is very interested in Matt Chapman, so I wanted to write that I don't believe that. DJ isn't going anywhere and Rizzo should be back, so DJ needs to play either 3B or 2B, so even if they trade Gleyber, they have Peraza. Chapman won't be cheap, is a RHH, and hit poorly against RHP last year, exactly what NY is trying to move away from.
 

EvilEmpire

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I have a bad feeling that they will.

Either DJ at 2nd and Peraza as utility IF, or, in a bolder move, Peraza at 2nd and DJ as a more aggressive utility IF who plays more than than a typical guy in that role. Like when he first got to NY. An attempt to keep the regulars (and DJ) from wearing down so much and maybe help with injury prevention which always seems to be a problem.

I wouldn't be opposed to DJ playing such a role, but I don't really want to see it happen because they went and got Chapman. Donaldson played good defense too. It wasn't enough to make up for the offensive suck. Even beyond him being a shitbag.

Assuming they got Chapman, I could see DJ playing around 4 games a week with Rizzo getting one day off, Chapman two against righties, and one for Peraza who sometimes rests and other times plays SS so Volpe can get a day. Something like that.

But of course the Yankees wouldn't do that and Peraza would be the guy playing two or three times a week at most.

But hey, I hope they just trade Gleyber first and get that done at least. I'll happily worry about the other stuff later.
 

jon abbey

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Chapman had a .722 OPS against RHP last year (.890 against LHP), it makes no sense to add him. On top of everything else, TOR gave him a qualifying offer so he'll cost draft picks too.

I am on the fence about signing Bellinger as I think that contract will end up bad before too long, but at least he makes complete sense for slotting into the current Yankee roster. He is a lefty, he can play CF to start the year, LF after Dominguez is back and 1B in a year or two when Spencer Jones is ready and Rizzo is gone. I'd have mixed feelings about signing him to the huge deal he is going to get, but at least he makes logical sense. Chapman really does not.
 

jon abbey

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This is what I mean about ignorance even among Yankee beat writers, it's not the hardest job but somehow most of them are still not very good at it. Someone named Kevin Manahan on nj.com ranted today about Cashman ranting yesterday, including this:

"He defended his analytics-driven trade for Joey Gallo, possibly the biggest Yankees trade bust of all time, by saying that the Dodgers and Twins also gave the guy a shot afterward.

What Cashman failed to mention is that …

a) Those teams rolled the dice on Gallo for a lot less than the top prospects the Yankees spent for him"

Hmm, the Yankees gave up Josh Smith, Ezequiel Duran, Trevor Hauver, and Glenn Otto. Otto was released this September after much suckage, Hauver turns 25 in a few weeks and was solid in AA this year (very old for the level), Smith has a .593 OPS in 408 ABS for TEX, and Duran has some skills, but collapsed in the second half this year and didn't make TEX's postseason rosters.

Meanwhile, NY flipped the final two months of Gallo for Clayton Beeter, a 2nd round pick by the Dodgers in 2020, who had 165 Ks in 132 innings this year between AA and AAA and is about to be added to NY's 40 man.

Is that actually 'a lot less'? It doesn't look like it to me, but these beat writers never dig into their own contentions, it's always so superficial, and it's not exactly like I'm digging so deep here.
 

EvilEmpire

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I hope you're right about Chapman.

And of course I agree about Bellinger. The contract will be in the range of not-great to actually bad, but it fills a couple of clear needs and provides the kind of positional flexibility that shouldn't clog up the roster or encumber the DH slot *cough Stanton* and that is very useful.
 

RedOctober3829

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This is what I mean about ignorance even among Yankee beat writers, it's not the hardest job but somehow most of them are still not very good at it. Someone named Kevin Manahan on nj.com ranted today about Cashman ranting yesterday, including this:

"He defended his analytics-driven trade for Joey Gallo, possibly the biggest Yankees trade bust of all time, by saying that the Dodgers and Twins also gave the guy a shot afterward.

What Cashman failed to mention is that …

a) Those teams rolled the dice on Gallo for a lot less than the top prospects the Yankees spent for him"

Hmm, the Yankees gave up Josh Smith, Ezequiel Duran, Trevor Hauver, and Glenn Otto. Otto was released this September after much suckage, Hauver turns 25 in a few weeks and was solid in AA this year (very old for the level), Smith has a .593 OPS in 408 ABS for TEX, and Duran has some skills, but collapsed in the second half this year and didn't make TEX's postseason rosters.

Meanwhile, NY flipped the final two months of Gallo for Clayton Beeter, a 2nd round pick by the Dodgers in 2020, who had 165 Ks in 132 innings this year between AA and AAA and is about to be added to NY's 40 man.

Is that actually 'a lot less'? It doesn't look like it to me, but these beat writers never dig into their own contentions, it's always so superficial, and it's not exactly like I'm digging so deep here.
The problem is that nobody cares that they ended up with a pitching prospect for Gallo. They just see that they traded for a player that did next to nothing for the team on top of a number of bad moves over the past few years. That move, the Montas trade, Donaldson/IKF trade, Rodon signing, extensions for Severino and Hicks come to mind.
 

jon abbey

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The problem is that nobody cares that they ended up with a pitching prospect for Gallo. They just see that they traded for a player that did next to nothing for the team on top of a number of bad moves over the past few years. That move, the Montas trade, Donaldson/IKF trade, Rodon signing, extensions for Severino and Hicks come to mind.
Yep, and my point is no one should care what those people think. Those are the same people jumping to trade Volpe and Dominguez for a year and a half of Luis Castillo, those people see a tiny percentage of a giant jigsaw puzzle and think they understand the entire thing. Cashman is sick of hearing their half-assed perspectives and so am I.
 

RedOctober3829

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Yep, and my point is no one should care what those people think. Those are the same people jumping to trade Volpe and Dominguez for a year and a half of Luis Castillo, those people see a tiny percentage of a giant jigsaw puzzle and think they understand the entire thing. Cashman is sick of hearing their half-assed perspectives and so am I.
Volpe is an interesting case as he was held onto while a bunch of the top SS in the league came on the market. Would Yankee fans rather have Volpe or Corey Seager?
 

jon abbey

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Volpe is an interesting case as he was held onto while a bunch of the top SS in the league came on the market. Would Yankee fans rather have Volpe or Corey Seager?
Yankee fans would rather have a $800M payroll, Yankee fans have no real concept of how to build a team. Cashman also has had some problems in this area over the last few years, to be fair.

And I'd rather have Peraza at SS and Volpe at 2B, with Roderick Arias a couple of years away to bump whichever one is performing worse.
 

ThePrideofShiner

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Volpe is an interesting case as he was held onto while a bunch of the top SS in the league came on the market. Would Yankee fans rather have Volpe or Corey Seager?
I'd rather have Castillo than Volpe, but I definitely wouldn't have traded Dominguez and Volpe for him.

One thing I think Kay said in his rant earlier that was spot on is that by trading for JoDo or Montas, you are blocking yourself from other or different moves. So while Cashman may not have given up great prospects or they didn't pan out or whatever, it still made it so the Yankees weren't in the market for other players who could have been better fits than those two.
 

jon abbey

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One thing I think Kay said in his rant earlier that was spot on is that by trading for JoDo or Montas, you are blocking yourself from other or different moves. So while Cashman may not have given up great prospects or they didn't pan out or whatever, it still made it so the Yankees weren't in the market for other players who could have been better fits than those two.
The Montas trade didn't stop them from doing anything else, so that is just wrong. You can add all the hypotheticals you want, but those prospects weren't adding a more useful player than Montas, they were clogging the 40 man, and Montas' salary didn't stop NY from adding whatever other salary they wanted last year.

The Donaldson deal is more complicated, but they had a tricky catcher situation at the time, and that move allowed them to add Trevino shortly after, who proceeded to win the Platinum Glove as the best defender at any position in all of MLB. The main purpose of the Donaldson deal was to get Ben Rortvedt, who also has not panned out at all but is still on the roster although he has probably lost his window at this point.

So yeah, I don't really agree with that either. It's the easiest thing in the world to criticize, but people aren't even doing a good job of that (and again, there are plenty of legit criticisms to be made).
 

jon abbey

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Here's a legit question for Cashman:

"Your wunderkind 'Martian' CF prospect, Jasson Dominguez, was invited to spring training after just turning 20 and he made the most of it, 10-22 with 4 HRs and a 1.565 OPS. Admittedly that wasn't all against MLB pitchers but some was, but you did the prudent thing and sent him down to AA. You then somehow gave a combined 263 OF games to the eventual Hall of Fame quartet of Cabrera*, IKF, Bauers and McKinney, without calling up Dominguez until Sept 1, who proceeded to go oppo taco against Verlander in his first AB and put up a .980 OPS before hurting himself.

Sorry for the long buildup but my question is given all that you know now about the situation, and ignoring the very unfortunate injury, do you regret not bringing him up sooner last year?"

*I like Oswaldo Cabrera, he is still just 24 and unbelievably defensively versatile, but he is a bench guy and should play more IF than OF, not an opening day LF ideally.
 

jon abbey

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Or:

"You so obviously leaned into team defense in 2022, far and away the MLB team leader in Defensive Runs Saved. Was that maybe less of a priority for some reason this year, for instance running out a human Coke machine in Jake Bauers so often in corner OF spots?"
 

jon abbey

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“In the 2022 ALDS, you guys had no real choice after the rainout but to use Wandy 5 straight days and go with Nestor on 3 days in game 5. Their heroic efforts won you the series, but do you think that exceptional effort impacted their 2023 seasons?”
 

ThePrideofShiner

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Cameron Maybin responding to some insane proposals from Yankees fans on Twitter by suggesting Stanton wouldn't mind being moved. Speak that into existence, Cameron!

View: https://twitter.com/CameronMaybin/status/1722685808350552209



Cameron Maybin

@CameronMaybin


You know I agree with everything you said except the big G part…. And I’ll leave it there. Im not putting words in his mouth but not so sure he wants to finish his career in the pinstripes.. I’m sure he’d like to finish somewhere that actual appreciates how’s he’s handle every sec of being in NYC
 

jon abbey

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Setting aside most of that, that brings up a good point which I continue to harp on, which is that the current Yankee fan base is a toxic mess of morons that hurts the team. There is no better example than the fact that THEY BOOED JUDGE when he was struggling in the postseason, IN HIS 62 HR SEASON WHEN HE WAS ABOUT TO HIT FREE AGENCY. I still can't really believe that happened, and it easily could have ended up as a deciding factor in him leaving.
 

jon abbey

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But yeah, I'm sure Stanton isn't the only current Yankee player who saw how guys like Montgomery and Hicks blossomed after being exiled from NY.
 

jon abbey

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Also Cole is almost definitely opting out because of the way his contract is structured, but then NY will add a year to his deal and he will be back (this is part of the agreed upon structure in the contract).
 

Wingack

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So I saw on X somewhere that Cashman wants to acquire two left handed OF bats?

I am glad to hear it but it also angers me that this has been such a glaring need that it is something he is only getting to now.
 

jon abbey

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I mean, if Dominguez wasn’t hurt and Cabrera hit in 2023 the way he did in late 2022, he’d have two already. Spencer Jones isn’t so far away either.
 

jon abbey

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Yeah, one macro mistake they made was largely going away from LHH because of shifts hurting them (now banned), because of LOOGYs being able to target them (much harder with the three batter rule) and because his righty power hitters could use the entire field (Sanchez and Voit gone, Stanton a mess, Judge still great).

But this mistake has already been addressed internally, Wells (LHH), Dominguez (switch), and Spencer Jones (LHH) and Roderick Arias (switch) on the way. He could use a guy or two like Max Kepler or Kevin Kiermaier as bridges to Dominguez being back and Jones being ready, though.
 

jon abbey

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NY really should be able to get Max Kepler pretty easily, he is a FA after 2024, on a 1/10 deal for 2024. MIN lost some OFers but still have a bunch and are looking to save money. Kepler was bad in the first half last year but then crushed down the stretch, a .926 OPS after the ASB in 265 PAs. He had his best career season in 2019 working with presumably announced soon new Yankee hitting coach James Rowsom, the MIN hitting coach that year.

Anyway I expected NY to get Kepler all last winter too especially after they signed Gallo too, but obviously never happened. It's just as good of a fit both ways now, NY has plenty of interesting cheap pieces depending on what MIN is looking for (can I interest you in a slightly used Rortvedt?).
 

jon abbey

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I will start a thread of questions people should actually ask Cashman, but for now I am going to keep putting them here.

"Anthony Volpe had a very impressive rookie season as a 22 year old who barely played in AAA. Going 20/20 while becoming the first Yankee rookie to ever win a Gold Glove is of course pretty remarkable, and I'm sure this is just the beginning for him.

But something confusing as an observer, he started the season running wild on the basepaths, 8 SBs/0 CS in the first 18 games, I think he was leading the league. He ended up playing in 159 games, and his .283 OBP meant he wasn't on base a whole lot, but still it seemed strange that he ended the season with just 16 more in the final 141 of those games, 24 total for the season.

Any idea why this was? Did the league figure out how to counter his hopping around like a frog on a hot plate approach, or did he stop being so aggressive for some other reason? It's definitely one of the more dangerous plays in the game as a runner, the simultaneous meeting of fielder and runner and ball and base seems to result in a lot of injuries, so I'd get it if it was that in part. Anyway with the new rules this year making SBs easier and Volpe seeming like a real weapon doing that early on, it was strange and unexplained why he mostly stopped after that, any insights are welcome."
 

jon abbey

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That would of course be super exciting, and one reason is that it would free up NY to trade even more pitching, starting with Clarke Schmidt (controlled through 2027).
 

jon abbey

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Glad they asked Ross, I posted on the main board a few days ago that that might make sense:

https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/will-cora-be-back-in-24.40572/page-4#post-5829982

The interesting thing from that piece is NY maybe trying to preemptively poach Andrew Bailey from becoming the BOS pitching coach. Are former pitchers ever named bench coaches? That seems extremely unusual.

"With Ross an unlikely addition, the Yankees are contemplating other candidates for their bench-coach vacancy. Brad Ausmus and Andrew Bailey are among those under consideration, sources said. Another option for the Yankees is to move Luis Rojas, the former Mets’ manager, from third base coach to bench coach, and hire a new third-base coach."
 

jon abbey

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Usually I do an offseason suggested set of changes for NY shortly after the season ends, but this year is too hard because of Yamamoto. IMO NY doesn't 'need' him like they needed Cole or Judge or even Rodon, but of course he would really help any team (if he stays healthy) and they are reportedly going hard after him. It would free up NY to trade even more pitching (bye Clarke) for position player help, but that would just be a side benefit to landing this stud.

But he makes so much sense for so many teams that I don't think it makes sense to include him in a plan for any team, we just need to wait and see where he signs and then it'll be easier to make a plan from there.

Fixing the facial hair rules, though, that should be priority #1 as it's very easy to do. Sorry to keep repeating this, I am trying to wish it into existence.
 

jon abbey

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Here's something fun while we wait for movement. I'm going to make a roster just from guys under contract with NY currently, let's say this is August 2024 and Dominguez is back.

Peraza or Volpe 2B/SS
Judge RF
Dominguez CF
Rizzo 1B
Torres or Stanton DH
Wells C
LeMahieu 3B
Jones LF
Volpe or Peraza 2B/SS

Rizzo, Wells and Jones are all lefties, Dominguez is a switch-hitter. The only one of those guys not up yet is Spencer Jones, he ended last year in AA.

Bench: Trevino, Cabrera, Stanton or Torres, Florial or Pereira

Cole
Rodon
Cortes
King
Schmidt

Brito (1.43 ERA in 37.1 IP/12 G in long relief this year)
Marinaccio or Weissert
Trivino
Effross
Hamilton
Kahnle
Loaisiga
Holmes

That's without adding absolutely anyone, and there is a lot of internal depth in both SPs and relievers.
 

jon abbey

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"Andrew Bailey was set to interview Monday for the Yankees bench coach position, The Post has learned.

Bailey, a New Jersey native who attended Wagner College in Staten Island, had been the Giants pitching coach for the past four seasons.

Bailey also has been under consideration for pitching coach roles with the Red Sox, Orioles and Marlins, and turned down an opportunity to be considered by the White Sox."
 

ThePrideofShiner

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I mean, I'm not sure how Stanton has any leg to stand on in this argument. Dude is hurt all the damn time and he hit under .200 this season. ARod got moved to the 7th hole for less.