Will Cora be back in ‘24?

Will he be, huh, will he???

  • Yes, as manager

    Votes: 116 48.7%
  • No. New GM gets their choice

    Votes: 98 41.2%
  • Yes…. But in a different office position

    Votes: 24 10.1%

  • Total voters
    238

AB in DC

OG Football Writing
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Jul 10, 2002
13,872
Springfield, VA
Everytime he opens his mouth I move further from "ambivalent" and closer towards "fire him now".
Same. Sox need a new POBO before the month is over, and whoever it is needs to draw the line with Cora somewhere. There's no particular reason he should go to bat for a bunch of assistant coaches when he's going to be a lame duck manager anyway. Chance are they're all going to be replaced next season regardless.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

has big, douchey shoulders
Lifetime Member
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Same. Sox need a new POBO before the month is over, and whoever it is needs to draw the line with Cora somewhere. There's no particular reason he should go to bat for a bunch of assistant coaches when he's going to be a lame duck manager anyway. Chance are they're all going to be replaced next season regardless.
I think that chances are very good that he will not be a lame duck manager and will get an extension.
 

canderson

Mr. Brightside
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Jul 16, 2005
39,646
Harrisburg, Pa.
He’s going nowhere. The FO has made it clear, we don’t need to keep rehashing wishes. He is the most valued part of the organization.
 

katnado

New Member
Aug 14, 2016
1,559
Alaska
He’s going nowhere. The FO has made it clear, we don’t need to keep rehashing wishes. He is the most valued part of the organization.
Which further shows this ownership group has absolutely zero plan. The fact they refuse to fire him or hold him responsible for the failures is malpractice.
 

streeter88

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Apr 2, 2006
1,809
Melbourne, Australia
Agreed. And the entire staff will return after two horrid seasons where nothing improved.
This makes me a bit cross. Need to start with the best group of hitters, pitchers and fielders you can afford / bring on board; but also the coaches need to be able to improve the results; otherwise why have them at all?
 

8slim

has trust issues
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Nov 6, 2001
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In fairness to Cora, does anyone here *really* know how much a staff can realistically improve players. Every year we see some guys improve their performance, and some guys slip, and I don’t think anyone can truly assign the appropriate share of credit or blame to the staff.

I read some of the posts here that go into excruciating minutia in regards to statistical analysis, and I can’t recall a single time where someone noted that a change in performance was fueled by being on a particular team with a good/bad staff.

I’m as frustrated as anyone about the boneheaded level of play from this team for the past few years. But I can’t tell ya how much of that is players simply being not good enough, and how much is poor instruction.
 

LogansDad

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Nov 15, 2006
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In fairness to Cora, does anyone here *really* know how much a staff can realistically improve players. Every year we see some guys improve their performance, and some guys slip, and I don’t think anyone can truly assign the appropriate share of credit or blame to the staff.

I read some of the posts here that go into excruciating minutia in regards to statistical analysis, and I can’t recall a single time where someone noted that a change in performance was fueled by being on a particular team with a good/bad staff.

I’m as frustrated as anyone about the boneheaded level of play from this team for the past few years. But I can’t tell ya how much of that is players simply being not good enough, and how much is poor instruction.
Sure, different players respond differently and some will improve, while others will regress regardless of input from coaching. In my opinion (and for the record, while I have been vocal about this, I recognize that I am no expert... but are any of us, really?), the issue under Cora is that the problems have been systemic. It's up and down the roster, and it's over and over and over. The team is simply non-cohesive on the defensive side of the ball.

Watch a mid-level team like the Diamondbacks play defense for a couple games, and compare them to the Sox in recent years, and the difference is noticeable. It isn't just the plays they mess up, or don't make, either, it's even on the plays they do make that you can see the difference.

Watch a stellar defensive team, like the Rangers or the Cubs, and it's like night and day. And it hasn't been a 2023 roster thing, the 2022 team wasn't great defensively, either, and the 2021 team was probably middle of the pack at best (and a lot of people ignore just how badly that team faded down the stretch). I don't think the blame is entirely on Cora, the rest of the coaching staff is as much to blame for the deficiencies, but when he comes out and says he is happy with it and everyone will be back next year, I think that's a pretty big strike against him, and the organization as a whole.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,685
In fairness to Cora, does anyone here *really* know how much a staff can realistically improve players. Every year we see some guys improve their performance, and some guys slip, and I don’t think anyone can truly assign the appropriate share of credit or blame to the staff.

I read some of the posts here that go into excruciating minutia in regards to statistical analysis, and I can’t recall a single time where someone noted that a change in performance was fueled by being on a particular team with a good/bad staff.

I’m as frustrated as anyone about the boneheaded level of play from this team for the past few years. But I can’t tell ya how much of that is players simply being not good enough, and how much is poor instruction.
No, we really have no idea.

It could be a lot, it could be a little, but none of us have any clue on it
 

8slim

has trust issues
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Nov 6, 2001
24,962
Unreal America
Sure, different players respond differently and some will improve, while others will regress regardless of input from coaching. In my opinion (and for the record, while I have been vocal about this, I recognize that I am no expert... but are any of us, really?), the issue under Cora is that the problems have been systemic. It's up and down the roster, and it's over and over and over. The team is simply non-cohesive on the defensive side of the ball.

Watch a mid-level team like the Diamondbacks play defense for a couple games, and compare them to the Sox in recent years, and the difference is noticeable. It isn't just the plays they mess up, or don't make, either, it's even on the plays they do make that you can see the difference.

Watch a stellar defensive team, like the Rangers or the Cubs, and it's like night and day. And it hasn't been a 2023 roster thing, the 2022 team wasn't great defensively, either, and the 2021 team was probably middle of the pack at best (and a lot of people ignore just how badly that team faded down the stretch). I don't think the blame is entirely on Cora, the rest of the coaching staff is as much to blame for the deficiencies, but when he comes out and says he is happy with it and everyone will be back next year, I think that's a pretty big strike against him, and the organization as a whole.
I hear all of this. I’ll just ask again though: are the systemic problems because the coaching stinks, or because we keep bringing in players who aren’t good defensively?

Like, Story plays great defense, and Devers certainly does not. Is that because the staff coached up Story, and failed Devers?

I’m more apt to buy that the systemic issues in baserunning are caused by a poor coaching approach.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Mar 11, 2007
6,491
I hear all of this. I’ll just ask again though: are the systemic problems because the coaching stinks, or because we keep bringing in players who aren’t good defensively?

Like, Story plays great defense, and Devers certainly does not. Is that because the staff coached up Story, and failed Devers?

I’m more apt to buy that the systemic issues in baserunning are caused by a poor coaching approach.
I think coaching could make Devers better…. Good, no. But better, yes. Devers especially since it seems like it’s a mental thing with him. He could use the reps before games, the fielding drills.
Casas I think showed improvement over the season slowly and I think wil be much better going forward. His issues seemed mostly bad throw picks which, again… reps and drills help.
Practice! Practice? We’re talking about practice!
 

8slim

has trust issues
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Nov 6, 2001
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Unreal America
I think coaching could make Devers better…. Good, no. But better, yes. Devers especially since it seems like it’s a mental thing with him. He could use the reps before games, the fielding drills.
Casas I think showed improvement over the season slowly and I think wil be much better going forward. His issues seemed mostly bad throw picks which, again… reps and drills help.
Practice! Practice? We’re talking about practice!
Quite possibly. I just have no idea what their rep level looks like. Maybe it’s embarrassingly low compared to more fundamentally sound teams. I just don’t know.

Would be a great topic for one of the best writers to address.
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
I hear all of this. I’ll just ask again though: are the systemic problems because the coaching stinks, or because we keep bringing in players who aren’t good defensively?

Like, Story plays great defense, and Devers certainly does not. Is that because the staff coached up Story, and failed Devers?

I’m more apt to buy that the systemic issues in baserunning are caused by a poor coaching approach.
Different players have different skill levels and different abilities. Some of that can be enhanced and some of it can't. Much of that depends on the player. That said, there are certain fundamentals that most players should be able to hone via repetition. I'm guessing that most of us can think of specific skills in our own professions that required repetition for us to become more proficient in what we do. There are other situations that we encounter less frequently and yet we still have certain drills/exercises/reviews that we do so that we recall the proper procedures when these situations occur. Many of us have expressed concerns regarding the focus, awareness, preparedness and execution of what we refer to as situational baseball over the course of the past couple of seasons. Now Cora himself seems to confirm the deficiencies that we've been talking about with his announcement that the team will be placing an emphasis on this beginning in spring training. Like @8slim says some of this is systematic and that is what I find worrisome about the return of Cora and his staff. We as fans don't know all of the details of what goes on inside of the teams that we follow, but some things do appear to be painfully obvious. I'm finding it difficult to understand the vote of confidence here given the organization's signal for needing new direction when the manager basically admits to what we've all been witnessing and questioning.
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
I feel like Devers needs a hypnotist.
It certainly seems that a sports psychologist could be an option. Devers has decent range, his defensive issues seem to mostly be with his throwing and part of that is a failure to hold on to the ball in certain situations or with rushing some of his throws. We often see Raffy go into these pronged batting slumps where he seems to be trying too hard. I wonder if part of his defensive issues stem from the same thing. He knows that he struggles with certain things. Is he trying too hard to right those wrongs? Is he pressing too hard, trying to make some of these throws and just compounding things by doing so?
 
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sezwho

Member
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Jul 20, 2005
2,018
Isle of Plum
How about a good old fashioned country infield coach, like Brian Butterfield (from Bangor Maine). New GM or director of personnel development, get on it.
I'm more than fine with Brian Butterfield (now that covid is not front and center at least), but as a fellow product of the Orono schools he's from Orono and played for Orono High. Bangor was the big city to our south, had an Orange Julius in the Mall and everything.
 

The_Dali

New Member
Jul 2, 2021
141
My concern is that they didn't let Bloom do this, and they had an easy out considering he was suspended for cheating.

I really think he's back next year, at ownership's behest.
Agree.

I don’t like Cora and wish he had stayed away after the suspension but I do think management is enamored .
 

NewDawn

New Member
Dec 18, 2022
4
Pessimistic view: If I replaced Bloom, I would want to retain Cora next year. Make a few trades, give him a slightly better team and say go for it. If he doesn't compete, then it's easy to not renew his contract and replace him with me taking little/no blame for year 1.
 

EyeBob

New Member
Dec 22, 2022
138
I figure that this is as good a spot to ask these questions.

Given that the Cubs just axed their manager in favor of a FA manager, Counsell, is Cora going to go FA? Decline the Sox offer (if it exists) to re-up? Counsell is making huge money to manage. Why wouldn’t any quality manager just take their contract to free agency like status?

Could we be seeing a new era in how managers are paid and valued?
 

Manuel Aristides

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Apr 7, 2009
229
I figure that this is as good a spot to ask these questions.

Given that the Cubs just axed their manager in favor of a FA manager, Counsell, is Cora going to go FA? Decline the Sox offer (if it exists) to re-up? Counsell is making huge money to manage. Why wouldn’t any quality manager just take their contract to free agency like status?

Could we be seeing a new era in how managers are paid and valued?
Maybe. But one is an outlier. Two starts a pattern.
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
I would be curious to see if Breslow sees a place for David Ross on the coaching staff (third base perhaps?) if he doesn't get a managerial offer elsewhere. It might not be bad to have an in house solution should things go sideways in the final year of Cora's contract or if he moves on to a FO position after 2024.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
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Jul 15, 2005
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I would be curious to see if Breslow sees a place for David Ross on the coaching staff (third base perhaps?) if he doesn't get a managerial offer elsewhere.
Ross is very tight with Aaron Boone and would seem to be a great fit for NY's now open bench coach slot. Boone evidently really helped Ross when he was going after the CHC job and since:

"I talked to Boone both before and after the interview process," Ross said. "Just about all those little things. I probably talked to him the most."

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28577313/lessons-nick-saban-aaron-boone-others-how-david-ross-preparing-lead-cubs

He can probably get a manager job but also I could see him doing NY's bench coach job for a year with his buddy/mentor and seeing what opens up. Basically Cashman paying Ross to teach Boone all he can for a year and then going on his way, everyone wins.
 

Benj4ever

New Member
Nov 21, 2022
367
Pessimistic view: If I replaced Bloom, I would want to retain Cora next year. Make a few trades, give him a slightly better team and say go for it. If he doesn't compete, then it's easy to not renew his contract and replace him with me taking little/no blame for year 1.
Not competing is not an option for the Red Sox this year. If it were, Bloom would still be around.
 

Benj4ever

New Member
Nov 21, 2022
367
It certainly seems that a sports psychologist could be an option. Devers has decent range, his defensive issues seem to mostly be with his throwing and part of that is a failure to hold on to the ball in certain situations or with rushing some of his throws. We often see Raffy go into these pronged batting slumps where he seems to be trying too hard. I wonder if part of his defensive issues stem from the same thing. He knows that he struggles with certain things. Is he trying too hard to right those wrongs? Is he pressing too hard, trying to make some of these throws and just compounding things by doing so?
The other option is that it's a lack of concentration. Either extremes is possible.
 

Bergs

funky and cold
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Jul 22, 2005
21,725
It certainly seems that a sports psychologist could be an option. Devers has decent range, his defensive issues seem to mostly be with his throwing and part of that is a failure to hold on to the ball in certain situations or with rushing some of his throws. We often see Raffy go into these pronged batting slumps where he seems to be trying too hard. I wonder if part of his defensive issues stem from the same thing. He knows that he struggles with certain things. Is he trying too hard to right those wrongs? Is he pressing too hard, trying to make some of these throws and just compounding things by doing so?
To my naked eye, I think Raffy is bad at transfering the ball from the glove to the hand, especially when he's in motion. That in turn throws off the rest of his mechanics.