2023-24 Celtics

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,883
Santa Monica
When was the last time this much all star talent was injured going into the playoffs? Especially clustered in one conference like this?

Embiid, Randle, Giannis, Butler, Zach Lavine, Haliburton hasn't been the same... Maybe it's just recency bias but it seems excessive.
throw in Caruso, he is a sizeable loss, especially if +/- , On-Off, or Defense is your thing.

I like AC more than Lavine
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,648
Imaginationland
Who are we rooting for tomorrow night? Bulls or Butler-less Heat?
Bulls easy. I was all set for the Heat with Butler healthy, but if he's out I'd just as soon take an easy early round series against a generic team (Chicago fits the bill) than have to see Bam and Spo for 2 weeks, even with no Jimmy.
 

m0ckduck

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,952
Bulls easy. I was all set for the Heat with Butler healthy, but if he's out I'd just as soon take an easy early round series against a generic team (Chicago fits the bill) than have to see Bam and Spo for 2 weeks, even with no Jimmy.
I'm with you as far as, if we're not going to get the redemption factor of beating Heat with Butler, we might as well take the easiest path out of the first round. But are we sure that isn't Miami at this point? Without Jimmy, there's not much there beyond a few Tyler Herro heat checks and a bunch of gimmicky zones that this Celtics team was built to annihilate. People sleep a bit on the Bulls— they're extremely non-scary, but often quite competent (although the Caruso injury widen the talent gap even further). I could see a Miami series being a straight sweep, honestly, and a Bulls series being closer to last year's opener against the Hawks, where we were never really in danger but it was more of a slog than hoped.

On the other hand, a whole two weeks of Doris and co making excuses for the Heat— playing without their "fallen leader", etc, as as if Butler was 1984 Bernard King— does sound unbearable. So, maybe that's the tie-breaker.
 

The Raccoon

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 24, 2018
962
Germany
On the other hand, a whole two weeks of Doris and co making excuses for the Heat— playing without their "fallen leader", etc, as as if Butler was 1984 Bernard King— does sound unbearable. So, maybe that's the tie-breaker.
Jackpot!

And if the Heat get eliminated in the play-in it will shine a bigger light on the fact that they (very much including Butler) seemingly punted on many games in the regular season and therefore made their own bed to be in those single game elimination situations that can always go in many different directions with or without injuries.

Butler played in "only" 60 games and seemed to really care in maybe half of them...
Even without their recent history against the Cs I want them gone!
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,883
Santa Monica
I’d love to watch the media come down on Heat Culture if they can’t make it out of the playin.
not happening, they were already rolling out injury-minute excuses stats during the Miami/Philly game.

The same will apply to Philly when the Knicks eliminate them. NBA Media playbook:
(1) if Embiid had only been healthy all season, they would have been a 1 or 2 seed
(2) they are a 65-win team when Joel plays
(3) Embiid has the heart of a lion playing on one leg
(4) outside forces were at fault, making Joel play before he was fully healthy

The real question is will Joel Embiid ever qualify (65 games) for Awards again?
 

m0ckduck

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
1,952
not happening, they were already rolling out injury-minute excuses stats during the Miami/Philly game.

The same will apply to Philly when the Knicks eliminate them. NBA Media playbook:
(1) if Embiid had only been healthy all season, they would have been a 1 or 2 seed
(2) they are a 65-win team when Joel plays
(3) Embiid has the heart of a lion playing on one leg
(4) outside forces were at fault, making Joel play before he was fully healthy

The real question is will Joel Embiid ever qualify (65 games) for Awards again?
(5) Embiid drops out of the consensus Top 5 player rankings and Top 10 in many cases as the public (again) reckons with the fact that he's never an impact player in the spring— but then mysteriously return to Top 1-3 next fall as if nothing's happened.
 

TomRicardo

rusty cohlebone
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 6, 2006
21,072
Row 14
The real question is will Joel Embiid ever qualify (65 games) for Awards again?
He got his MVP and is on the wrong side of 30 so pretty safe bet on no. The real question is if the 76ers whiff in free agency this offseason will he use his walk year to push for a trade to the Knicks.
 

Silverdude2167

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 9, 2006
4,749
Amstredam
not happening, they were already rolling out injury-minute excuses stats during the Miami/Philly game.

The same will apply to Philly when the Knicks eliminate them. NBA Media playbook:

(2) they are a 65-win team when Joel plays
I already read an article noting this which some how missed that Joel ducked most of the better teams in the league.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
13,313
The 2022-23 Celtics started 20-4! On pace to be a 68-win team before it turned out that the season is 82 games long!
 

ObstructedView

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2001
3,513
Maine
The 2022-23 Celtics started 20-4! On pace to be a 68-win team before it turned out that the season is 82 games long!
There's definitely part of me that's glad that both the Cs and Bs seemed to let their feet off the pedal down the stretch this time and are going into the playoffs with more in the tank. There's just so much randomness in these series though (less so in basketball obviously).
 

Smokey Joe

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 9, 2001
1,221
Is this good?

Now that the post season is here and the talking heads are forced to talk about the Celtics (Besides breathlessly reporting on last minute losses). I still have not heard this being mentioned on any podcasts or in any columns. I think it’s good but most of the blogosphere seems to think it’s not important.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
13,313
Let's. Fucking. Go.

So excited for how much energy the Cs are gonna come out with, specifically because it's Miami.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
45,285
Melrose, MA
Cleaning the glass had Holiday at 55 of 92 from the corner for 59.8% in non-garbage time, which seems weird (why would they have one more croner attempt than other stats?).

But:
  • 92 is the most corner threes Holiday has ever attempted in a season. He has seasons of 70 and 60 attempted, but his career median is 42.
  • Prior to this season, he has never shot higher than 44% on corner threes, which he has done 3 times, but never on more than 50 shots.
  • He shot 36% on non-corner threes, which is his 5th worst (he had seasons of 35%, 35%, 32%, and 34% during his last 4 years in New Orleans, but ever other season but this one he has shot at least 37%).
  • In his Milwaukee years, he shot 36%, 34%, and 44% on 55, 35, and 40 attempts from the corner.
This season was also Holiday's lowest career usage rate by a country mile. He was at 17.8% this year, his only year below 20%. In his Milwaukee years his usage was 25.3%, 29.7%, and 32.0%.

It would be funny if they came out of the gate on Sunday afternoon running plays for Holiday.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
13,313
Just get out of the series before this crappy team separates someone's shoulder:

View: https://twitter.com/NoaDalzellNBA/status/1781673462450327638
I mean, this is the book on the Celtics now: get physical with them. Magic will do it, Knicks will do it, Bucks will do it, Denver will do it.

May as well get used to it now. Miami is far from the only team that is going to be really handsy in the New NBA.

It would be funny if they came out of the gate on Sunday afternoon running plays for Holiday.
Maybe not out of the gate, but Holiday is a good option to both drive the gaps in the zone, and also to relocate within its soft spots. He's going to be key.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
31,567
Cleaning the glass had Holiday at 55 of 92 from the corner for 59.8% in non-garbage time, which seems weird (why would they have one more croner attempt than other stats?).

But:
  • 92 is the most corner threes Holiday has ever attempted in a season. He has seasons of 70 and 60 attempted, but his career median is 42.
  • Prior to this season, he has never shot higher than 44% on corner threes, which he has done 3 times, but never on more than 50 shots.
  • He shot 36% on non-corner threes, which is his 5th worst (he had seasons of 35%, 35%, 32%, and 34% during his last 4 years in New Orleans, but ever other season but this one he has shot at least 37%).
  • In his Milwaukee years, he shot 36%, 34%, and 44% on 55, 35, and 40 attempts from the corner.
This season was also Holiday's lowest career usage rate by a country mile. He was at 17.8% this year, his only year below 20%. In his Milwaukee years his usage was 25.3%, 29.7%, and 32.0%.

It would be funny if they came out of the gate on Sunday afternoon running plays for Holiday.
My WAG would be that there was a 3P that could have been classified as above the break or corner and the two sites disagreed.

Jrue's dramatic rise in corner 3P attempts is pretty consistent with the fact that he's spending a lot of time in the dunker's spot - where he can relocate to the corner. Could never do this before because of he was handling the ball so much.

I've said before that I think Jrue has another gear on defense and think we'll see it in the playoffs. That would be amazing.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
31,567
Speaking of which, Athletic ran a two-part series talking to scouts and some coaches how to attack the Cs on offense and defense. Here's the one on defense: https://theathletic.com/5430046/2024/04/20/celtics-defense-playoffs-joe-mazzulla/.

Of note, I think Exasperated Guy is in the article (Donald Hadesman, former assistant coach of the Windsor Express, Awful Coaching on YouTube. ). One of his takes on defense:
"Hadesman: Porziņģis is so long, so he can get into those 2-on-1 situations in the drop and take out the roll, but then stunt at the right time. Anthony Davis would be another who can do that.
But I just hate how they guard. Drop coverages are too deep. Last year in Game 7 (against Miami) the Celtics were running drop coverages against Duncan Robinson. Like, get out of here."

He does say some nice things about BOS's defense though.
 

BillMuellerFanClub

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
1,403
At the start of the season, I gave Oshae Brissett a follow on his YouTube channel. It's mostly day-in-the-life stuff and his fit, and we don't get a ton of C's content, save for mentioning what city they're in and heading to workouts and whatnot. His most recent video starts with a nice talking head segment where he talks about they're prepping for a whole new season, and how, on this day in years past, he'd be packing his bags for a trip to start his offseason. Kinda cool to get that insight.

There's also a short segment with the team at Fenway for a day game which by itself is worth checking out if only for the Kornet Kameo(TM).

View: https://youtu.be/RjUEtuhBvhQ
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,883
Santa Monica
Speaking of which, Athletic ran a two-part series talking to scouts and some coaches how to attack the Cs on offense and defense. Here's the one on defense: https://theathletic.com/5430046/2024/04/20/celtics-defense-playoffs-joe-mazzulla/.

Of note, I think Exasperated Guy is in the article (Donald Hadesman, former assistant coach of the Windsor Express, Awful Coaching on YouTube. ). One of his takes on defense:
"Hadesman: Porziņģis is so long, so he can get into those 2-on-1 situations in the drop and take out the roll, but then stunt at the right time. Anthony Davis would be another who can do that.
But I just hate how they guard. Drop coverages are too deep. Last year in Game 7 (against Miami) the Celtics were running drop coverages against Duncan Robinson. Like, get out of here."

He does say some nice things about BOS's defense though.
Thanks for posting. Enjoyed both articles and kind of laughed to myself when Scout B said this about the Celtic offense, which has been re-iterated around here for quite some time (the dreaded Planted-Pot/Genius-Coma ISO ball).

NBA scout B: Their 3-point shooting is top in the league in both volume and efficiency. Being able to generate those looks comes from having five players who can play with the ball in their hands at all times. That’s the biggest thing.

But the one weakness you can attack is sometimes, you can get them to settle into the worst shots. I feel like that’s the way you have to attack them. When things go stale for them at the end of fourth quarters, they stop getting the penetration, and it turns into iso hero ball. They’re still generating decent 3s but not the good ones they generate for the first three quarters.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 26, 2006
14,604
The Celtics All Access stuff can be pretty blah, but I've got to say that the segments with JB showing KP around his old high school were pretty cool and heart-warming:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu7RRfyx5Ag&t=502s


Starts at like 10:05. There's a scene earlier where JB takes KP to his favorite deli in Atlanta and they don't recognize him that's pretty funny, too.

I really hope Kristaps isn't laid up for long because he's been such a great part of the vibes this year and they deserve a healthy run at it.
 

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
10,215
San Francisco
The Celtics All Access stuff can be pretty blah, but I've got to say that the segments with JB showing KP around his old high school were pretty cool and heart-warming:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu7RRfyx5Ag&t=502s


Starts at like 10:05. There's a scene earlier where JB takes KP to his favorite deli in Atlanta and they don't recognize him that's pretty funny, too.

I really hope Kristaps isn't laid up for long because he's been such a great part of the vibes this year and they deserve a healthy run at it.
i laughed hard when jb orders for kp who immediately say nah im getting something else and proceeds to eat honey mustard tenders with spicy sauce on the side
 

bigq

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,626
Thanks for posting @InstaFace

Just watched Episode 1. It was very good and it was interesting to get Wyc's perspective on the offseason at the beginning. The Mike Gorman portion was touching.

I'll catch Episode 2 later today. I may be watching these on a loop for the next week.