2022 Dolphins: Our coach is cooler than yours

sodenj5

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Figured with the combine wrapping up and FA around the corner, it was time for a fresh thread.

Mike McDaniel may or may not be a great head coach, but he’s entertaining as hell and made his rounds through the press during the combine.

Miami has the most cap room in the league and they’re rumored to be working on an extension for Christian Wilkins before his 5th year option needs to be exercised.
 

sodenj5

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Miami is tagging Mike Gesicki.

View: https://twitter.com/cameronwolfe/status/1501200080728170505?s=21


This always felt like the most logical conclusion as McDaniel and Gesicki get a season together to feel each other out and see if his skill set fits well in this offense.

If Gesicki doesn’t produce or they feel like they want to feature more Hunter Long and another TE in 2 TE sets, they can move on without any pain next offseason.

If he goes bananas, they can try and get a long term deal done in the offseason
 

rymflaherty

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Not surprising.
We’ll see if things change under McDaniel, but Gesicki isn’t a tight end. He was out wide or in the slot over 85% of the time (forget the exact number off hand).
It’s my belief that you should build a receiving corp of differing skill sets that can compliment each other…so if the new staff sees Gesicki’s skill set as one that potentially gods any value within their offense, it makes complete sense, as you’re basically getting a WR on the TE franchise tag.
 

sodenj5

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Not surprising.
We’ll see if things change under McDaniel, but Gesicki isn’t a tight end. He was out wide or in the slot over 85% of the time (forget the exact number off hand).
It’s my belief that you should build a receiving corp of differing skill sets that can compliment each other…so if the new staff sees Gesicki’s skill set as one that potentially gods any value within their offense, it makes complete sense, as you’re basically getting a WR on the TE franchise tag.
I think that Gesicki has value. I don’t necessarily agree that he’s a “value WR” because most slot WRs don’t make 11 million dollars/season and he doesn’t line up or produce out wide enough to really be seen as a value there.

His argument may be he’s a WR, and the tag is significantly higher because all WRs are accounted for, but the reality is he’s likely getting paid exactly what he should be getting paid.

Gesicki is a toolsy guy, but we still haven’t really seen him put together a dominant season start to finish. We’ve seen good stretches and some amazing highlights, but haven’t really seen him take that next step to being a true Pro Bowl level guy yet.
 

Cellar-Door

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I think that Gesicki has value. I don’t necessarily agree that he’s a “value WR” because most slot WRs don’t make 11 million dollars/season and he doesn’t line up or produce out wide enough to really be seen as a value there.

His argument may be he’s a WR, and the tag is significantly higher because all WRs are accounted for, but the reality is he’s likely getting paid exactly what he should be getting paid.

Gesicki is a toolsy guy, but we still haven’t really seen him put together a dominant season start to finish. We’ve seen good stretches and some amazing highlights, but haven’t really seen him take that next step to being a true Pro Bowl level guy yet.
I think his argument is a good one. He's a WR... you aren't supposed to be paid what you should on the franchise tag, you're supposed to get top money in return for not being allowed to test muli-year deals in the market.

If Gesicki were to hit the market he's get a lot better contract offers than that.
 

sodenj5

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I think his argument is a good one. He's a WR... you aren't supposed to be paid what you should on the franchise tag, you're supposed to get top money in return for not being allowed to test muli-year deals in the market.

If Gesicki were to hit the market he's get a lot better contract offers than that.
Dallas Goedert just signed an extension at just under 15 million per season.

So you may be right that Gesicki gets paid a bit more in the open market, but I’m not sure he’s beating Goedert’s contract significantly.

Dalton Schultz, David Njoku, and Gesicki all got tagged this offseason, which probably means that teams think the TE market is a bit inflated and are using the tag cap costs temporarily.
 

Cellar-Door

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Dallas Goedert just signed an extension at just under 15 million per season.

So you may be right that Gesicki gets paid a bit more in the open market, but I’m not sure he’s beating Goedert’s contract significantly.

Dalton Schultz, David Njoku, and Gesicki all got tagged this offseason, which probably means that teams think the TE market is a bit inflated and are using the tag cap costs temporarily.
sure, but Goedert also got 4 years. Gesicki getting stuck on 1/10 is a massive underpay of what he'd get in the market, even if he only got 10M per year, 3/30 with 20+ guaranteed is much better, and really he'd probably get something more like 4/50+, with 25+ guaranteed.
The 3 tags tells me that the tag is not appropriately valuing the position for these guys who are defacto WRs.
 

rymflaherty

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If there’s value, I think it’s in the sense that it’s the one year. Don’t get me wrong, I’d have been fine if they let Gesicki walk too, but for the one year I think it makes sense. If it was a 3 or 4 year contract, I’d have questioned it more.

Also, I don’t expect the team to spend on WR. With the proliferation of the passing game across all levels, and the talent coming into the league every year, I’m convinced WR is going to be seen in a similar light as the running back position (at the very least in terms of FA) within the next few years. I’m going to give Grier the benefit of the doubt that he’s going to be someone ahead of that curb on this.
Though, that may be skill players across the board. PFF looked at the bigger signings the past 5 years and it’s tough to fine many that we’re “okay”, much less anywhere near worth it.

I would however be fine with the team going hard after the top lineman. I expect they attempt to break the bank at that position and the rest of the signings are the second and third tier guys who they identify as value and scheme fits.
I say expect, but that’s also what I hope the plan is.

edit* - wanted to amend the WR thing some, I can see them bringing someone in if the guys in the Pringle, Valdez-Scantling range wind up affordable. Looking at the Fa list I realized there was a possible intersection of potential/value.
 
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sodenj5

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sure, but Goedert also got 4 years. Gesicki getting stuck on 1/10 is a massive underpay of what he'd get in the market, even if he only got 10M per year, 3/30 with 20+ guaranteed is much better, and really he'd probably get something more like 4/50+, with 25+ guaranteed.
The 3 tags tells me that the tag is not appropriately valuing the position for these guys who are defacto WRs.
Just for reference, Spotrac estimated Gesicki’s value at 4 years/44 million. He’s tagged for 10.93 million for next year.

I think he likely would have done better in free agency, but Hunter Henry didn’t do that much better just last year.

Miami might be saving 2 million by tagging him this year vs signing him long term, but I think Gesicki is going to fall somewhere in that 12-13 million range, and he’s getting ~11 million next year.

If he has a huge season, he definitely has the talent profile of a guy that can reset the market, but the on field production hasn’t quite matched up to the talent level yet.
 

Cellar-Door

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Just for reference, Spotrac estimated Gesicki’s value at 4 years/44 million. He’s tagged for 10.93 million for next year.

I think he likely would have done better in free agency, but Hunter Henry didn’t do that much better just last year.

Miami might be saving 2 million by tagging him this year vs signing him long term, but I think Gesicki is going to fall somewhere in that 12-13 million range, and he’s getting ~11 million next year.

If he has a huge season, he definitely has the talent profile of a guy that can reset the market, but the on field production hasn’t quite matched up to the talent level yet.
Yeah so to Gesicki, he not only doesn't get to choose where to go, he's losing money both short and long term. That's not particularly common with the tag, unless you're a no doubt top 3 guy at the position.... or a TE.
 

j-man

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good luck this season and thanks for stopping by mypage

man i really wanted to see a 85 mia-chi super bowl that wouild been a top 5 super bowl of all time
 

sodenj5

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Free agency kicks off today, and it’s time to set some expectations.

Miami has been linked heavily with Terron Armstead. At 30, he theoretically has some solid tread left on the tires, but his injury history is troublesome. He has never played a full 16 games and last year only played 8 games.

When healthy, he’s a top left tackle and is only one year removed from back-to-back-to-back Pro Bowls.

I would take the risk on Armstead. I think he fits the scheme perfectly, and if he can stay on the field, he fills a massive hole.

A few other guys they have been connected to: Braxton Berrios, DJ Chark, La’ell Collins, Raheem Mostert, JC Jackson.

Would love to see Armstead and Collins. The draft is loaded at WR and RB so I would rather see them draft there and not spend huge in free agency on those positions. Spend on some proven veteran lineman that can step in and play well right away.
 

sodenj5

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These concerns about who will be good “in front of a room” usually come from people without first-hand experience, unless playing high-school ball counts. Looking at who has had coaching success in the league this century, it’s clear that a wide variety of styles will play in an NFL locker room.
Copied your quote into the 2022 thread.

I agree and I think guys like McVay and Shanahan have paved the way in terms of having coaches that aren’t hardass former players being successful.

One of the things I really liked about McDaniel is when he spoke with Tua on his plane ride to Miami, he said he was going to earn Tua’s trust and respect. That’s a pretty stark contrast to Flores, where it seemed quite the opposite. That Tua needed to earn his trust and respect, but never seemed to do so.

McDaniel has said a bunch of stuff in pressers, but his consistent messaging about empowering Tua has to be really refreshing for him to hear.
 

sodenj5

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View: https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1503398211410665482?s=21


Ogbah is staying in Miami, minutes before the FA window opens up.

Until the details are released, I’m going to assume it probably looks like a 2 year, 32 million dollar deal with two option years at 16 million a piece after that.

Definitely a big bump for Ogbah, but he has been outstanding in Miami for two years. Glad he’s staying put.
 

rymflaherty

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I don’t dislike Edmonds, but his most likely outcome to mis a slightly better Gaskin.

That said, I‘m never going to be very critical of any signing that brings in a guy that’s proven to be competent, on a short term/reasonable money deal.

I’m also sticking to my prediction that the team will be targeting Kenneth Walker and draft him if given the opportunity…this signing doesn’t dissuade me from that, as Edmonds would pair well with him.
 

sodenj5

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I don’t dislike Edmonds, but his most likely outcome to mis a slightly better Gaskin.

That said, I‘m never going to be very critical of any signing that brings in a guy that’s proven to be competent, on a short term/reasonable money deal.

I’m also sticking to my prediction that the team will be targeting Kenneth Walker and draft him if given the opportunity…this signing doesn’t dissuade me from that, as Edmonds would pair well with him.
Yea I don’t think Edmonds precludes them from drafting a RB. Edmonds is a nice piece but is on a short term deal. He fills that 3rd down RB hole very nicely if nothing else.
 

j-man

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teddy is a great backup spot starter had denver at 7-6 last season great in the locker room only bad thing about him LOVES to checkdown no matther what like on 3rd and 8 will throw a 3 yard pass and hope the wr can get to the sticks is very tough smart if teddy gets into a game u will see a lot of 10-15 yard passes in the middle of the field
 

rymflaherty

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Wilson wasn’t on my radar when I was looking at receivers, but he’s intriguing.

As a DFS player, I recall him having some big games when someone else was out. Some of the numbers I’m looking at also reflect a guy that was making the most of limited opportunities within that offense, as QB’s had a 130.6 rating when he was targeted. That seems pretty absurd for a guy that didn’t have that small a sample size (61).

I guess Bridgewater makes sense since I advocated for a veteran, someone better than Brisett and someone that could step in and have a reasonable chance of success if things really implode for Tua this upcoming season (injury or otherwise)…I think Teddy checks those boxes.
 

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teddy is a great backup spot starter had denver at 7-6 last season great in the locker room only bad thing about him LOVES to checkdown no matther what like on 3rd and 8 will throw a 3 yard pass and hope the wr can get to the sticks is very tough smart if teddy gets into a game u will see a lot of 10-15 yard passes in the middle of the field
Absolutely. Bridgewater becomes one of the best backups in the league immediately.
 

sodenj5

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Wilson wasn’t on my radar when I was looking at receivers, but he’s intriguing.

As a DFS player, I recall him having some big games when someone else was out. Some of the numbers I’m looking at also reflect a guy that was making the most of limited opportunities within that offense, as QB’s had a 130.6 rating when he was targeted. That seems pretty absurd for a guy that didn’t have that small a sample size (61).

I guess Bridgewater makes sense since I advocated for a veteran, someone better than Brisett and someone that could step in and have a reasonable chance of success if things really implode for Tua this upcoming season (injury or otherwise)…I think Teddy checks those boxes.
You’re thinking of Gallup. He missed some time and Wilson played pretty well in his opportunity.

Wilson is a very savvy, buy-under-the-radar type of guy. Doesn’t break the bank, is versatile, gets separation, and is good with the ball in his hands.

We’re still waiting on the OL shoe to drop, but both Armstead and Collins are still available. I would think that Miami isn’t done at WR, and I would hope they secure one of the two top tackles.

I saw a valid point on Twitter last night. Miami has an entire roster of guards, but no tackles. So they might be fine with sitting out and watching all of the guards get snapped up because they have their eyes set at tackle.
 

rymflaherty

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I doubt Grier would spend big on an interior lineman anyway. It’s one of the overall philosophies I’ve picked on, the high draft picks and big contracts go to premium positions.
It’s part of the macro level stuff that I’ve found logic in and has led me to argue for Grier on here in the past.
 

sodenj5

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Miami signing Dalls guard Connor Williams.

View: https://twitter.com/pff_dolphins/status/1503755262485843975?s=21


This says one of two things to me. They’re considering moving Robert Hunt or Liam Eichenberg back to RT or they’re going scorched earth and revamping the line in a major way.

Williams would likely slot in at LG, which means one of Hunt or Eichenberg needs to kick out to tackle. Or they’re bringing in Armstead and Collins and they have Austin Jackson and Liam Eichenberg as backups.
 
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rymflaherty

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I wouldn’t count out Jackson at RT if they sign a no-brainer to start at LT.

Though I’m probably one of the few people that haven’t completely given up on Jackson at this point. I guess I can’t help but question how much of his lack of progress (and actually declining) had to do with the coaching, new scheme, lack of talent and leadership around him, having Covid right before the season etc..
It’s crazy that he’s still just 22. I guess the smart thing is to just assume he’s depth at this point, especially now that he’s played Guard as well, but I also can’t help but think a guy like this seems like the poster child for a career turn around when you bring in a coach like McDaniel and if they can fill the line with professionals round him.
 

sodenj5

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I wouldn’t count out Jackson at RT if they sign a no-brainer to start at LT.

Though I’m probably one of the few people that haven’t completely given up on Jackson at this point. I guess I can’t help but question how much of his lack of progress (and actually declining) had to do with the coaching, new scheme, lack of talent and leadership around him, having Covid right before the season etc..
It’s crazy that he’s still just 22. I guess the smart thing is to just assume he’s depth at this point, especially now that he’s played Guard as well, but I also can’t help but think a guy like this seems like the poster child for a career turn around when you bring in a coach like McDaniel and if they can fill the line with professionals round him.
I don’t disagree entirely, and Jackson probably profiles better as a zone blocking tackle anyways, but he has some very real issues that need fixing.

I suppose the bigger point is you can’t go into the season with Austin Jackson as your Plan A at any spot. Much like they needed to avoid Jesse Davis being a Plan A last year. I’m for keeping Jackson and letting him compete, but if he’s your plan at LT again, we’re in for more disappointment.

By signing a guard, Eichenberg and Jackson look to be the guys on the outside looking in as its stands today.
 

sodenj5

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Forgot to mention that Elandon Roberts is back on another one year deal.

Roberts has his limitations, but when he hits the hole and sticks a RB, I swear I can feel it through the TV. He’s good for a few of those huge run stuffs per year and seems to really sell out for his team.

Love having him back. That’s one tough dude.
 

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Teddy comes home to South Florida. Bridgewater a very good locker room dude and a solid veteran backup for Tua.
teddy is a great backup spot starter had denver at 7-6 last season great in the locker room only bad thing about him LOVES to checkdown no matther what like on 3rd and 8 will throw a 3 yard pass and hope the wr can get to the sticks is very tough smart if teddy gets into a game u will see a lot of 10-15 yard passes in the middle of the field
Absolutely. Bridgewater becomes one of the best backups in the league immediately.
Nope. I HATE having a 2nd string QB that is the polar opposite of your starter. Other than a weak arm, their play style is very different. This feels like hedging against an implosion by Tua. If I were Miami, I'd lean heavily into him. Don't waste cap on hedging bets. If Tua isn't the answer, Bridgewater isn't leading them to the promised land.

Enough hedging. Its all in or all out.
 

sodenj5

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Nope. I HATE having a 2nd string QB that is the polar opposite of your starter. Other than a weak arm, their play style is very different. This feels like hedging against an implosion by Tua. If I were Miami, I'd lean heavily into him. Don't waste cap on hedging bets. If Tua isn't the answer, Bridgewater isn't leading them to the promised land.

Enough hedging. Its all in or all out.
I don’t read it the same as you. You have to look at Tua’s history and acknowledge that it’s more likely than not that he misses a few games this year. I think Teddy is a better version of what they thought they were getting in Jacoby.

I don’t think it’s a hedge against Tua sucking as much as having a good Plan B if/when Tua misses some time this year.

Until Tua proves that he can stay healthy through a full season, it’s smart to have a capable backup that can step in and play for a game or two.
 

rymflaherty

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I get the backup quarterback thing…I.e. - it makes sense for the Ravens not to have a drop back passer, or it makes sense for the Rams not to have a scrambling quarterback…
I guess I don’t get how Bridgewater wouldn’t be able to run the offense McDaniel installs for Tua.

Maybe I haven’t watched enough of Teddy, but I don’t see how they are polar opposites?
Teddy can’t make quick throws or doesn’t have good anticipation? If he doesn’t, then I guess I’m wrong. Admittedly, I’m probably assuming he’s decent in those areas since he’s lasted as long as he has in the league; without elite traits. I’m not sure what else Tua currently has proven that would make his offense not fit someone else.
 

j-man

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I don’t read it the same as you. You have to look at Tua’s history and acknowledge that it’s more likely than not that he misses a few games this year. I think Teddy is a better version of what they thought they were getting in Jacoby.

I don’t think it’s a hedge against Tua sucking as much as having a good Plan B if/when Tua misses some time this year.

Until Tua proves that he can stay healthy through a full season, it’s smart to have a capable backup that can step in and play for a game or two.
teddy can def play for a game or two in fact he is the best backup qb in the nfl
 

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You know who is going to shine in outside zone? Robert Hunt. I can’t wait to see how he performs next year. He was such a good run blocker in outside zone in college.
 

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Interesting. No progress on long term deal for Hill? No idea why KC would be looking to deal him with Kelce already up there in years. Hill opens up so much space for everyone else. If Dolphins add him to Waddle, I mean, yikes.
 

sodenj5

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I thought this was an apt summary of the Dolphins’ off-season moves so far (even if the Tyreek Hill trade doesn’t happen).

View: https://twitter.com/minakimes/status/1506651957108244481?s=21
I mean, this would be what going all in on your QB looks like. If Tua can’t succeed, then Miami moves on from him, and they still have a pretty solid infrastructure in place to drop another QB into.

I’m assuming that Miami is looking to trade this year’s 1 and a 2 and they want to keep the 2 first rounders they have next year for this exact reason.

If Tua isn’t it, you still have the ammo to make a
move and get another guy.
 

Silverdude2167

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I mean, this would be what going all in on your QB looks like. If Tua can’t succeed, then Miami moves on from him, and they still have a pretty solid infrastructure in place to drop another QB into.

I’m assuming that Miami is looking to trade this year’s 1 and a 2 and they want to keep the 2 first rounders they have next year for this exact reason.

If Tua isn’t it, you still have the ammo to make a
move and get another guy.
What you wrote is 100% on point.

Now beyond football, how would you feel about adding Hill?
If this was the Pats, I would be really turned off, but doubt I would actually stop following them even if that is what my morals would dictate.
 

sodenj5

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What you wrote is 100% on point.

Now beyond football, how would you feel about adding Hill?
If this was the Pats, I would be really turned off, but doubt I would actually stop following them even if that is what my morals would dictate.
I can’t be a hypocrite and ignore the fact that Hill has done some absolutely despicable things off the field. I don’t think he’s a good person, even a little bit.

That being said, I, for whatever reason, felt a lot more strongly about Deshaun Watson than I do about Hill. It could entirely be that I haven’t had any time to process this yet. But I haven’t found myself in the “I’m abandoning the franchise” mindset yet.

Now official.

View: https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1506670698835623951?s=21
 

pdaj

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The Cheetah and Penguin (Waddle) duo shouldn’t be fair to opposing defenses. That pair + the OL additions + competent RB = the ability to assess Tua with integrity.

And if he fails? Miami retains their 2 1st-round draft picks in next year’s draft.
 

Shelterdog

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That being said, I, for whatever reason, felt a lot more strongly about Deshaun Watson than I do about Hill. It could entirely be that I haven’t had any time to process this yet. But I haven’t found myself in the “I’m abandoning the franchise” mindset yet.
Look they're both terrible and you're certainly allowed to feel how you want but you do know that Deshaun Watson was actually criminally charged (of choking in beating his pregnant girlfriend)? I'd find it hard to find one as being much worse than the other.

[And to be fair I'm honest enough to say that if the Pats added both I'd probably still root for then even if I didn't love it so not judging you on rooting for your team.]
 

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