2021-22 NBA In-Season News/Transactions

BigSoxFan

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It would be nuts for Spurs to trade that many picks for Sabonis, in my view, given where they are. He's a nice fit, but they are not that close.
They need a big badly. Nobody on the roster is worth anything and it's a hard position to find talent. Maybe Vassell/2022 unprotected gets it done but I was assuming it wouldn't. Sabonis has a very nice contract and is just entering his prime.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Wiseman + Looney + Moody for Sabonis (or Turner) works in the trade machine, fwiw. Not that I’m advocating it.
 

Cesar Crespo

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They need a big badly. Nobody on the roster is worth anything and it's a hard position to find talent. Maybe Vassell/2022 unprotected gets it done but I was assuming it wouldn't. Sabonis has a very nice contract and is just entering his prime.
Yeah, Murray is worth nothing, Keldon Johnson is a bum too. Lonnie Walker has slipped this year and isn't really in the same category as the first 3 but they do have some players with value.
 

BigSoxFan

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Yeah, Murray is worth nothing, Keldon Johnson is a bum too. Lonnie Walker has slipped this year and isn't really in the same category as the first 3 but they do have some players with value.
I was clearly referring to the bigs on their roster. Maybe try reading a post for more than 2 seconds and absorb the actual context being discussed before coming up with a snarky response. You can do it - I believe in you.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I was clearly referring to the bigs on their roster. Maybe try reading a post for more than 2 seconds and absorb the actual context being discussed before coming up with a snarky response. You can do it - I believe in you.
My bad. Even so, I don't know how Sabonis helps any. He'd be a bad pairing with Murray and he'd be one of the weakest players to go for a package of unprotected picks and promising young players. The Spurs are so far away it makes no sense to make that deal for Sabonis.

Amazingly, Turner is only 2 months older than Sabonis and can probably be had for way less. If the Kings had a competent GM, they'd be all over Myles.

OKC should be in on Sabonis if a pick package is what the Pacers are looking for. Sabonis and SGA is a start. They can also move picks and have assets left over to build around.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Wonder what TJ Warren would go for too. Seems like someone who would be cheap being an upcoming FA and also coming off a major injury.
 

benhogan

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Not a bad offer for Sabonis. Turner could be had for much less, I'd imagine.
Keep thinking GSW is going to be active. Steph/Dray/Wiggy/Iggy need ready-made vets around them.

Wiseman, Kuminga, Moody must be appealing to a rebuilder

Imagine if they had just drafted LaMelo or Haliburton
 

Cesar Crespo

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Keep thinking GSW is going to be active. Steph/Dray/Wiggy/Iggy need ready-made vets around them.

Wiseman, Kuminga, Moody must be appealing to a rebuilder

Imagine if they had just drafted LaMelo or Haliburton
Would have been a huge reach for Haliburton.

Imagine if they ended up with LaMelo and Franz Wagner though?
 

PedroKsBambino

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They need a big badly. Nobody on the roster is worth anything and it's a hard position to find talent. Maybe Vassell/2022 unprotected gets it done but I was assuming it wouldn't. Sabonis has a very nice contract and is just entering his prime.
My point wasn't that SA should trade less so much as that trading for Sabonis likely doesn't make sense as they are not close to being a contender. Giving up significant unprotected picks is a huge gamble you can really only justify if it gets you close to a title contention situation. That isn't how I see SA now.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Would have been a huge reach for Haliburton.

Imagine if they ended up with LaMelo and Franz Wagner though?
Ws went by the book with youth, size, and upside on both picks, so I’m not gonna kick myself too much. I’d still probably take JonK over Franz if you twisted my arm, given neither was likely to be in the 9-10 man playoff rotation as early as this season.

Obviously I’d take LaMelo over JW in a redraft, but people were pretty well split on that at the time. LaMelo always seemed like a more natural fit in Kerrball; but 7-foot athletic freaks don’t come around often, and there was no way to know LaMelo’s three ball would come around as quickly as it has. You could also argue LaMelo’s presence might have forestalled the blossoming of Poole, and/or obviated Toscano-Anderson or GP2. And as much of a budding superstar as he is, he’s still putting up .538 TS and is still probably not a core part of a title run as early as this season.
 

BigSoxFan

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My point wasn't that SA should trade less so much as that trading for Sabonis likely doesn't make sense as they are not close to being a contender. Giving up significant unprotected picks is a huge gamble you can really only justify if it gets you close to a title contention situation. That isn't how I see SA now.
I get your point. I think we value Sabonis differently and I do think SA is closer than their record would indicate. I also think I was probably overzealous with the picks but I’d have zero hesitation trading an unprotected 1 for him with another asset. He’s a really good player. Not a franchise-altering one but improvements for teams like SA will have to be incremental.
 

benhogan

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I get your point. I think we value Sabonis differently and I do think SA is closer than their record would indicate. I also think I was probably overzealous with the picks but I’d have zero hesitation trading an unprotected 1 for him with another asset. He’s a really good player. Not a franchise-altering one but improvements for teams like SA will have to be incremental.
I've always been a Sabonis fan and like him much better than Turner. Think both of those centers probably play better without the other

SAS could probably get Myles Turner+ for Derrick White straight up if they wanted a BIG while moving one of their PGs.

I also like Poeltl's defense and don't see SAS paying up for a BIG, but they are playing better. Maybe they see value there.
 

BigSoxFan

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I've always been a Sabonis fan and like him much better than Turner. Think both of those centers probably play better without the other

SAS could probably get Myles Turner+ for Derrick White straight up if they wanted a BIG while moving one of their PGs.

I also like Poeltl's defense and don't see SAS paying up for a BIG, but they are playing better. Maybe they see value there.
Poetl is definitely serviceable. Spurs need a big who can put the ball in the basket since they haven’t really filled that since Aldridge left. With Murray’s ascension and some quality role players, I see a team that could compete. 9 of their 14 losses are by 10 points or less so they’re generally competitive. White for Turner is probably a move that I would also make if I were them.
 

Cellar-Door

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A collapsed lung is only 1-2 weeks? Shows how little I know about injuries, because that sounds way more severe than a short-term injury. o_O
it's also not really "collapsed", there is just air there, that they didn't identify it until a couple days later makes me think it's fairly minor.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I get your point. I think we value Sabonis differently and I do think SA is closer than their record would indicate. I also think I was probably overzealous with the picks but I’d have zero hesitation trading an unprotected 1 for him with another asset. He’s a really good player. Not a franchise-altering one but improvements for teams like SA will have to be incremental.
I think it's that we have a different guess at the org philosophy at this point---which is a mystery since they haven't faced non-contention in 20 years, really! My guess is that they might want to truly contend for a title sooner rather than later, even with risk they crap out and are bad; what I see in your ideas is that they might want to be at least Indiana---always solid and competitive even at the cost of a shot at being a title contender. You may well be right about that---thinking about the last year or two there is some reason to think they are a better version of Indiana's approach. Which to me is always a mistake, but they have a tougher market
 

Swedgin

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After the Shams piece pushing the Dame wants to stay in Portland narrative (and wants the team to acquire Simmons and wanted Kidd not the "inexperienced" Billips narrative), several ESPN folks (Woj, Shelburne and Windhorst) along with Mannix have reported that Dame/his people have conveyed that he expects the max extension to be offered this July. It could add two years to his deal making it run through his age 36 and 37 seasons. The team would pay 107M for those two years of service.

Pretty clear that either Olshey (or a loyalist) is the source. Not in Portland's interest in having the Dame extension demand made public, given that it diminishes his trade value.
 

BigSoxFan

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I think it's that we have a different guess at the org philosophy at this point---which is a mystery since they haven't faced non-contention in 20 years, really! My guess is that they might want to truly contend for a title sooner rather than later, even with risk they crap out and are bad; what I see in your ideas is that they might want to be at least Indiana---always solid and competitive even at the cost of a shot at being a title contender. You may well be right about that---thinking about the last year or two there is some reason to think they are a better version of Indiana's approach. Which to me is always a mistake, but they have a tougher market
Agreed. This isn't an easy franchise to figure out. As you mentioned, SA is not a big market so the local tv revenues aren't great. I don't think their ownership group is flush with cash either so they likely need gate/advertising revenue more than most teams. They also have a HOF coach who is about to age out. There is inherent value for a team like SA being competitive but not really contenders. A team built around Sabonis, Murray, White, Johnson, etc. would be solid but more like #7-10 seed good. The challenge is what do you do from here? They'll likely have a good pick this year if they don't deal it and Murray is signed for 2 more years at cheap money. White is locked up as well. Vassell is still cheap. Walker has emerged as a solid player who'll need to be locked up or traded soon. But the problem is that you don't have an alpha scorer. Murray has picked up some of the slack but I think he's best positioned as the 2nd/3rd option on a contending team.

I just struggle to see how this team makes any kind of meaningful leap. They'll have some cap space but there won't be anybody close to Sabonis on the FA market who they could realistically land. Like Indiana, they seem like a team that will be stuck in purgatory for quite some time.
 

BigMike

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Would have been a huge reach for Haliburton.

Imagine if they ended up with LaMelo and Franz Wagner though?
True, obviously LaMelo would absolutely play, and would force them to make moves to accommodate him, but at the same time it might have come at the cost of the emergence of Jordan Poole.

And Wagner has been awesome in Orlando, but I suspect if you put him on GSW he might have found a way to force himself to 15 minutes most nights, but no way would he be doing what he is doing down in Orlando. By the same token I suspect if Kuminga was in Orlando he'd be playing 25 min a night and positing some numbers also probably inefficiently
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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After the Shams piece pushing the Dame wants to stay in Portland narrative (and wants the team to acquire Simmons and wanted Kidd not the "inexperienced" Billips narrative), several ESPN folks (Woj, Shelburne and Windhorst) along with Mannix have reported that Dame/his people have conveyed that he expects the max extension to be offered this July. It could add two years to his deal making it run through his age 36 and 37 seasons. The team would pay 107M for those two years of service.

Pretty clear that either Olshey (or a loyalist) is the source. Not in Portland's interest in having the Dame extension demand made public, given that it diminishes his trade value.
It really feels like all of the chatter is moving towards a full blown rebuild if they can get deals that work. People keep talking about McCollum to the 76ers for Simmons but the trade here feels like Simmons+ (Maxey, picks etc) for Lillard. If any team has the need and is in a "win-now" window, its Philadelphia.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Isn’t that the trade Philly has been waiting for all along?
Its absolutely been widely speculated that Morey was hoping for a Portland rebuild. Again, there is no firm indication that they will pursue this route but the normal media messengers seem to be chumming the waters. Perhaps its wishful thinking as a Dame trade sweepstakes is so very "this league" and a deal of that magnitude will allow for lots of speculation etc. It would also imply that the other players are headed elsewhere too.

The reality is that the Blazers, if they so choose, can alter the league playoff picture in a number of ways. They have a lot of useful and potentially impactful- to varying degrees - pieces they can move.
 

BigSoxFan

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Isn’t that the trade Philly has been waiting for all along?
Believe so. Lillard/Embiid inside-out game would be really tough. Have to imagine that it already would be done if Portland were game. No way Philly wouldn’t be all over that.
 

Jimbodandy

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It really feels like all of the chatter is moving towards a full blown rebuild if they can get deals that work. People keep talking about McCollum to the 76ers for Simmons but the trade here feels like Simmons+ (Maxey, picks etc) for Lillard. If any team has the need and is in a "win-now" window, its Philadelphia.
Yep. This is right.

Morey has been waiting for this or something like it to fall into his lap. And despite all the "agents run the league" talk, he's probably going to get his wish.

Selling low on Simmons was always a bad idea. Soon, it'll be much closer to a market trade.
 

cheech13

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My sense on the ground here in Portland is that the Olshey firing makes a Dame less likely, not more likely. I think they are going to look for a GM to retool around Dame. I do, however, think it could be open season on trading McCollum, Nurkic, Covington and Nance.
 

BigSoxFan

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This was always the concern with Zion. That body can’t support the weight and style of play. Too bad. Really fun player when healthy but feels like durability will be an ongoing issue with him.
 

luckiestman

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This was always the concern with Zion. That body can’t support the weight and style of play. Too bad. Really fun player when healthy but feels like durability will be an ongoing issue with him.
Before it hit me, the commercial with Zion sitting on the couch, I saw it and was wondering “what defensive tackle is famous enough to have this commercial?” but then I realized who it was.
 

Jakarta

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I think trading Zion is exceptionally hard at the moment. You can’t trade him for a mediocre return in case he proves to be healthy going forward, and the team trading for him isn’t going to give the Pels the AD pick bonanza they are looking for. Are picks allowed to be conditional on playing time or some other measure? Something like every year Zion plays at least X minutes the pick conveyed is a first or a swap, but if he plays less, the pick becomes a second. I know this happens in the NFL, but it’s also substantially easier because there are so many rounds and value is more evenly spread out.

I think NO ends up being an interesting destination for Simmons. They aren’t going anywhere this year, so picking up a guy like Simmons to rebuild value showing he can be an elite player when given the opportunity. A deal for Ingram+ may tempt Morey. He can sell Ingram as a “star” and a team with Embiid, Ingram, and Harris is at least interesting and puts them in the “legit contender if everything goes right” category.

Zion and Simmons is a clumsy fit, but Zion seems unreliable so upgrading from Ingram to Simmons seems worth it from a talent acquisition standpoint. If Zion proves healthy, and Simmons re-establishes his trade value, they can trade one for a better fit. They also have a ton of picks to help facilitate a trade to land a superstar that is a better fit.
 

radsoxfan

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This was always the concern with Zion. That body can’t support the weight and style of play. Too bad. Really fun player when healthy but feels like durability will be an ongoing issue with him.
Yeah, super interesting "unicorn" type player.

Unfortunately when someone seems incredibly unique and "never-before-seen".... there often is a reason.

Would love to see him be an 8-10 year All NBA guy but have to think that's unlikely at this point.
 

Jimbodandy

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I think trading Zion is exceptionally hard at the moment. You can’t trade him for a mediocre return in case he proves to be healthy going forward, and the team trading for him isn’t going to give the Pels the AD pick bonanza they are looking for. Are picks allowed to be conditional on playing time or some other measure? Something like every year Zion plays at least X minutes the pick conveyed is a first or a swap, but if he plays less, the pick becomes a second. I know this happens in the NFL, but it’s also substantially easier because there are so many rounds and value is more evenly spread out.

I think NO ends up being an interesting destination for Simmons. They aren’t going anywhere this year, so picking up a guy like Simmons to rebuild value showing he can be an elite player when given the opportunity. A deal for Ingram+ may tempt Morey. He can sell Ingram as a “star” and a team with Embiid, Ingram, and Harris is at least interesting and puts them in the “legit contender if everything goes right” category.

Zion and Simmons is a clumsy fit, but Zion seems unreliable so upgrading from Ingram to Simmons seems worth it from a talent acquisition standpoint. If Zion proves healthy, and Simmons re-establishes his trade value, they can trade one for a better fit. They also have a ton of picks to help facilitate a trade to land a superstar that is a better fit.
I'm not even the biggest Ingram fan in the world, but Morey should take him straight up for Simmons if offered (salary balancers if needed). Ingram plus picks is way more valuable than Ben.
 

BigSoxFan

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Yeah, super interesting "unicorn" type player.

Unfortunately when someone seems incredibly unique and "never-before-seen".... there often is a reason.

Would love to see him be an 8-10 year All NBA guy but have to think that's unlikely at this point.
I was kind of expecting the Larry Johnson career arc but even that may not happen.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I’ve been lower on Zion than many for two reasons: the physical questions/health, and uncertainty about whether his jumper will be good enough to let the rest of his skills have maximum impact.

The evidence to date is not favorable in either, but he still is young and other-worldly talented
 

BigMike

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I think the Pelicans best chance is that the Knicks make the stupid move, and it is the Knicks so I think it will likely happen. And it won't be the mega offer they could have gotten had last offseason, but at the same time, he is not long for New Orleans, and while I'm sure they would love to see him return and build back value before having to deal him. I guess the one thing this disaster season might mean is that Zion might be forced to sign the long term extension rather than going the qualifying offer and FA the following offseason

Either way I don't see this ending well for NOLA
 

Jakarta

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I'm not even the biggest Ingram fan in the world, but Morey should take him straight up for Simmons if offered (salary balancers if needed). Ingram plus picks is way more valuable than Ben.
Are you saying Ingram is a better player than Simmons, or that Morey should take the straight up offer because it’s the best he can do?

I think it’s pretty clear Simmons is a better player now and he also offers more upside (which is admittedly the same upside he had after his rookie year). I think it’s unlikely Simmons has gotten worse, but his faults have become bigger concerns as they have never been addressed.

You may be right that it would the best offer Morey gets. I like Ingram better than McCollum or DAR or any of the other borderline stars that get thrown around, and a guy like Sabonis doesn’t work next to Embiid anyways.
 

Jimbodandy

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Are you saying Ingram is a better player than Simmons, or that Morey should take the straight up offer because it’s the best he can do?

I think it’s pretty clear Simmons is a better player now and he also offers more upside (which is admittedly the same upside he had after his rookie year). I think it’s unlikely Simmons has gotten worse, but his faults have become bigger concerns as they have never been addressed.

You may be right that it would the best offer Morey gets. I like Ingram better than McCollum or DAR or any of the other borderline stars that get thrown around, and a guy like Sabonis doesn’t work next to Embiid anyways.
Simmons is obviously a better player than Ingram. But Morey would never do better than an Ingram deal IMO.

As an aside, people need to stop referencing Simmons' "upside". Man hasn't developed one iota since entering the league. Maybe he magically learns how to shoot, but it seems unlikely at this point. And he hasn't developed anything else either.
 

BigSoxFan

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Simmons is obviously a better player than Ingram. But Morey would never do better than an Ingram deal IMO.

As an aside, people need to stop referencing Simmons' "upside". Man hasn't developed one iota since entering the league. Maybe he magically learns how to shoot, but it seems unlikely at this point. And he hasn't developed anything else either.
I think Simmons has become a better defender but, yeah, his skill set remains largely the same as when he first came in to the league.