2019 Pats: General Training Camp Thread

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MDLzera
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Sep 27, 2016
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Allen's getting released agin? Man, the NFL is tough
It was obvious to you that news about actual departures from the team were covered in the speculation-driven fantasy-football-esque Roster Projections thread?

okay then.
 

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MDLzera
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Sep 27, 2016
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You don't think another team will pick him up, especially after that game?
Yeah sure, he'll find another job, but the guy's a 3-time champion with the Patriots - even if it's time for him to go, it's a little bittersweet.

- Brady
- Hightower
- McCourty
- Edelman
- Allen
- White (3 games for 61 yards in 2014)
- Develin
- Slater
- Chung
- Ghost
- Harmon
- Ebner

More than a handful of active players on the team continuously, but not a ton, either.

edit: wow, unless you count Hightower as a DE/OLB (which I don't), not a single lineman on either side of the ball was with the team through all 5 seasons 2014-2018.
 
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dynomite

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Yeah sure, he'll find another job, but the guy's a 3-time champion with the Patriots - even if it's time for him to go, it's a little bittersweet.

- Brady
- Hightower
- McCourty
- Edelman
- Allen
- White (3 games for 61 yards in 2014)
- Develin
- Slater
- Chung
- Ghost
- Harmon
- Ebner

More than a handful of active players on the team continuously, but not a ton, either.
It enough to make me want to start a “Thank you Ryan Allen” thread.

I’m having trouble remembering some of his signature kicks outside of the Super Bowl last year.
- Week 1 last year against Texans I remember he pinned Watson on his 1 yard line for their final drive with a minute left.
- I also remember he was critical in the 2017 Jaguars AFC Championship game, pinning them inside the 10 (?) a number of times until the offense finally found its sea legs in the 4th quarter.
 

E5 Yaz

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It was obvious to you that news about actual departures from the team were covered in the speculation-driven fantasy-football-esque Roster Projections thread?

okay then.
Considering the number of people who were posting in that discussion, perhaps it was you who were the outlier
 

RedOctober3829

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Josh Gordon is in full pads practicing today which means he'll come off NFI.

N'Keal Harry and Braxton Berrios were back practicing as well as Matt LaCosse.

Not spotted today: Andrews, D. Harris, T. Harris, M. Harris, Calhoun, Rivers, Davis
 
Apr 24, 2019
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My ludicrously unhinged analysis: Scooby and Robert Martin for look-sees and as extra bodies to play pre-season week 4, James Williams (who also visited) as a practice squad possibility that they don’t want to show too much interest in.
 

Rook05

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Too bad. He was a bit of a binky for me
Too many Harrises (Harrisii?). For all the talk about DT’s deficiencies, this tells me he’s going to get some serious run. They’ll probably run the slip screen to him 3X a game.

I’m a little nervous about Meyers getting the TB12 cold shoulder after his two brainfart routes.
 

Pxer

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Had high hopes for him as a run stuffer but it’s clear he never fit with what they were doing. Good on Bill to give him a head start to finding a team before cut day this weekend.
Not sure how good of a sign it is that Danny Shelton essentially beat him out of a roster spot considering Shelton's play last year.
 

Super Nomario

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I think Cowart beat out Pennel. Shelton seemed to figure out some stuff late in the season, enough that BB decided to re-sign him.
Pennel (6'4" 332 at the Combine) is much more similar in body type to Shelton (6'2" 339) than Cowart (6'3" 298).

As for figuring stuff out late in the season, I dunno. He was active for the first 11 games, then only 2 of the last 5. Shelton only played 22 snaps in the playoffs, including a healthy scratch against the Chiefs. He did make a couple splash plays. I think the bigger factor is he showed up out of shape last year (342 vs a target weight of 335) and this year came in at a "slim" 325. It's interesting to me that both sides essentially went for a do-over even though 2018 didn't really work out.
 

Shelterdog

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Pennel (6'4" 332 at the Combine) is much more similar in body type to Shelton (6'2" 339) than Cowart (6'3" 298).

As for figuring stuff out late in the season, I dunno. He was active for the first 11 games, then only 2 of the last 5. Shelton only played 22 snaps in the playoffs, including a healthy scratch against the Chiefs. He did make a couple splash plays. I think the bigger factor is he showed up out of shape last year (342 vs a target weight of 335) and this year came in at a "slim" 325. It's interesting to me that both sides essentially went for a do-over even though 2018 didn't really work out.
Shelton's looked really good in the preseason to me, much better than he did last year, but who the heck really knows. I suspect he found the whole "holy molI'm a 26 year old former first round pick whose best offer was a million bucks with like 75k guaranteed and is looking at the end of his football career" to be very motivating.
 

Pxer

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Pennel (6'4" 332 at the Combine) is much more similar in body type to Shelton (6'2" 339) than Cowart (6'3" 298).

As for figuring stuff out late in the season, I dunno. He was active for the first 11 games, then only 2 of the last 5. Shelton only played 22 snaps in the playoffs, including a healthy scratch against the Chiefs. He did make a couple splash plays. I think the bigger factor is he showed up out of shape last year (342 vs a target weight of 335) and this year came in at a "slim" 325. It's interesting to me that both sides essentially went for a do-over even though 2018 didn't really work out.
Iirc, Shelton asked for his release this spring, and the Pats obliged. DS said in one of the postgame shows this preseason that Bill came calling in May and he couldn't say no to that. Sounds like he didnt really have any offers.
 

Ale Xander

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Not sure how good of a sign it is that Danny Shelton essentially beat him out of a roster spot considering Shelton's play last year.
Shelton was great in the final game of the season, if memory serves.
 
Apr 24, 2019
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Rumor has it Shelton and BB have had what amounts to a bit of a Patrick Chung moment - not the coke thing - in that Shelton is being asked to do slightly different things (more penetration?) than he was asked to do last year AND that he has perhaps better understood what they wanted him to do last year.

Clearly I’m fuzzy on the details, but I feel like I’ve gotten that impression from multiple places. Nothing on the level of what happened with Chung when he returned from the Eagles, but definitely get a sense that there’s been some wiggle room and newfound appreciation from both sides. Shelton has also lost 20-ish lbs.
 

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T&A
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Not sure how good of a sign it is that Danny Shelton essentially beat him out of a roster spot considering Shelton's play last year.
I saw this quote in a recent article that Evan Lazar wrote about the Patriots defense (full article here https://www.clnsmedia.com/lazar-patriots-defense-continuing-2018-postseason-aggressiveness/

PENETRATING NOSE TACKLES
On a separate but related note, another preseason trend that’s building for the Patriots is the idea of a penetrating nose tackle.

In the past, nose tackles in Belichick’s defense mainly focus on two-gapping and holding at the point of attack; think Vince Wilfork.

This season, nose tackle Danny Shelton told me the following about the new technique that Belichick has him playing this season:

“It’s just part of being in this kind of system and being coached by Bill [Belichick]. You have to be ready for a new technique or a new defense at any time… I’d say it’s a product of being coachable. Trying to do what coach wants us to do.”


I'm sure Shelton will still be asked to two-gap at times, but the team's evaluation of him may be different if they are now asking him to also do different things.
 

Super Nomario

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Iirc, Shelton asked for his release this spring, and the Pats obliged. DS said in one of the postgame shows this preseason that Bill came calling in May and he couldn't say no to that. Sounds like he didnt really have any offers.
Shelton was a free agent; the Patriots didn't release him. I buy the part that there wasn't a ton of interest; he basically signed a minimum deal (minimum salary, 75 K bonus, which is nothing, 121 K roster bonus).
 

Pxer

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Shelton was a free agent; the Patriots didn't release him. I buy the part that there wasn't a ton of interest; he basically signed a minimum deal (minimum salary, 75 K bonus, which is nothing, 121 K roster bonus).
All this time I was thinking it was Shelton, when in fact it was Adrian Clayborn they released. D'oh!
 

BaseballJones

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Good reminder from Ross Tucker:

Annual Reminder: Guys playing in 4th preseason game tonight are likely the best football players EVER from their hometown. For most, tonight is last time they will ever put a helmet and shoulder pads on & by Saturday they'll realize their lifelong dream/goal did not come true.

For us, we want our team to cut the players who aren't that good, but it would serve as a sobering reminder that each of these guys, simply to make it to this point with an NFL team, are GREAT football players. They may not be great compared to NFL players, but they're at a place that the vast vast majority of D-1 football players (who themselves are great) only DREAM of getting. Most D-1 players never even sniff an NFL camp at all.

A lot of guys' dreams are going to be crushed in the next couple of days. I had never really thought about the "this will be the last time a lot of them put on a helmet and pads" angle before. I coach HS sports and cutting kids there is painful. Imagine cutting these guys. Not the most fun part of the job, I wouldn't think.
 

Van Everyman

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It’s funny you say that – I remember catching an episode of Hard Knocks when the Rams were on it a few years ago. And Jeff Fisher did the Bull Durham “This is the toughest job a manager has” routine almost verbatim. It felt laughably insincere.

How do we think Belichick handles this stuff? Do we think he even has guys come into the office?
 

cshea

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He doesn’t strike me as the type to delegate the cuts out to his staff. He probably brings them in and gives them and honest answer as to why they are being cut and what to work on.
 

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MDLzera
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Good reminder from Ross Tucker:

Annual Reminder: Guys playing in 4th preseason game tonight are likely the best football players EVER from their hometown. For most, tonight is last time they will ever put a helmet and shoulder pads on & by Saturday they'll realize their lifelong dream/goal did not come true.

For us, we want our team to cut the players who aren't that good, but it would serve as a sobering reminder that each of these guys, simply to make it to this point with an NFL team, are GREAT football players. They may not be great compared to NFL players, but they're at a place that the vast vast majority of D-1 football players (who themselves are great) only DREAM of getting. Most D-1 players never even sniff an NFL camp at all.

A lot of guys' dreams are going to be crushed in the next couple of days. I had never really thought about the "this will be the last time a lot of them put on a helmet and pads" angle before. I coach HS sports and cutting kids there is painful. Imagine cutting these guys. Not the most fun part of the job, I wouldn't think.
A sobering quote, to be sure. That said, at least it's decisive and quick. Baseball players who are almost-but-not-quite good enough to make the Show can linger in AA/AAA for a long time, making only marginally better than peanuts. Basketball players good enough to get a Summer League or G-League look can go overseas to make good coin, even if nowhere near NBA-good, and Hockey and soccer similarly. But if your lifelong dream isn't going to come true, better to find out at age 22, go back to school, and figure out your career before you have 2 kids and a mortgage, and use the prime of your life for something other than rounding out a minor-league roster in order to allow the true stars to shine.