2019 Pats: General Training Camp Thread

BaseballJones

goalpost mover
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
5,905
I remember the days when the only training camp news you'd get is a skinny column in the back pages of the Herald or the Lawrence Eagle Tribune. Now we get breakdowns like this:

View: https://twitter.com/ZackCoxNESN/status/1162115209307316225?s=20


P. S. Yeah, I can't be more excited for Jacobi Myers.
I just hope he isn't the kind of guy who is a great camp player but turns invisible during the season. I hope he's absolutely the real deal. Lots to like about this kid.
 

Bleedred

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 21, 2001
7,083
Boston, MA

nattysez

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2010
3,772
Sounds like Maurice Harris has a significant leg injury, and Harry just got sent home (presumably to get more treatment for his injuries). Kyed is pretty worried about the WR situation.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
39,318
deep inside Guido territory
Sounds like Maurice Harris has a significant leg injury, and Harry just got sent home (presumably to get more treatment for his injuries). Kyed is pretty worried about the WR situation.
Yeah, it's not pretty on paper right now but when the season hits they will be fine. McDaniels will adapt to what he has and make it work. Between the available WRs, TEs, and RBs they will still have at least a top 10 offense as long as Tom Brady is the QB. I've learned to just not freak out over the first 4-6 weeks and know that by the end of the season they will be one of if not the top contender for the AFC.
 

NickEsasky

Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em
SoSH Member
Jul 24, 2001
8,099
I'd say that's a pretty measured response by Kyed. Outside of Edelman there isn't much there in regards to experience, health, or not being suspended at the moment. It could certainly get better over the season if guys get healthy (or Gordon gets reinstated) and Harry and Jakobi produce.
 

BaseballJones

goalpost mover
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
5,905
So maybe the Pats open the season with Edelman, Meyers, Dorsett, and Berrios at the WR position.

Top 5 defense, Brady, that WR group, and a stud OL and stacked RB corps.... I think they'll be fine. Reinforcements would come soon enough.
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
12,071
Mansfield MA
I'd say that's a pretty measured response by Kyed. Outside of Edelman there isn't much there in regards to experience, health, or not being suspended at the moment. It could certainly get better over the season if guys get healthy (or Gordon gets reinstated) and Harry and Jakobi produce.
To me it's a group with a WR1 in Edelman, 5-6 WR3/4 and no real WR2. Gordon and Demaryius Thomas are potential WR2s; I guess Harry is, too, but that's pretty optimistic for 2019.

I'd feel pretty good about the WR if they still had Gronk, but TE looks like the worst position on the team, so it's fair to say there's a lot of uncertainty with the receiving corps.
 

bakahump

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 8, 2001
6,254
Maine
We still have Inman as well who is a quality NFLer. He has just been bit by the numbers game thus far.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
39,318
deep inside Guido territory
I'd say that's a pretty measured response by Kyed. Outside of Edelman there isn't much there in regards to experience, health, or not being suspended at the moment. It could certainly get better over the season if guys get healthy (or Gordon gets reinstated) and Harry and Jakobi produce.
Last year for long stretches of time the only receiver contributing much of anything was Edelman. 42% of Brady's total targets went to Edelman(108 targets in only 12 games) and White. Surprisingly, Gronk was only targeted 13% of the time. When you break it down, you need to replace the 35% of the targets from last year from players no longer here and there's a sizeable group to do so between increased roles of players still on the team and the new guys.
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
12,071
Mansfield MA
Last year for long stretches of time the only receiver contributing much of anything was Edelman. 42% of Brady's total targets went to Edelman(108 targets in only 12 games) and White. Surprisingly, Gronk was only targeted 13% of the time. When you break it down, you need to replace the 35% of the targets from last year from players no longer here and there's a sizeable group to do so between increased roles of players still on the team and the new guys.
The O also struggled a good amount last year in the games where Edelman and / or Gordon was unavailable. And they're going to get a lot less at TE than what they got from (even a diminished) Gronk. They should muddle through as long as Edelman stays healthy ... but that's no guarantee and things are going to look real bleak if he does get hurt.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
16,406
Philadelphia
To me it's a group with a WR1 in Edelman, 5-6 WR3/4 and no real WR2. Gordon and Demaryius Thomas are potential WR2s; I guess Harry is, too, but that's pretty optimistic for 2019.

I'd feel pretty good about the WR if they still had Gronk, but TE looks like the worst position on the team, so it's fair to say there's a lot of uncertainty with the receiving corps.
Jules is also 33 so while WR1 is a reasonable projection without further info, it wouldn’t be shocking if he turned into a WR3/4 caliber player himself. That’s basically what happened to Welker at 33.
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
12,071
Mansfield MA
Jules is also 33 so while WR1 is a reasonable projection without further info, it wouldn’t be shocking if he turned into a WR3/4 caliber player himself. That’s basically what happened to Welker at 33.
Great point. Edelman had 850 receiving yards last year. No 33-year-old receiver had that many in 2018. Fitzgerald had over 1,000 in 2016 and 2017, and five guys beat 850 in 2014 (Anquan Boldin, Malcolm Floyd, Steve Smith, Roddy White, Andre Johnson), but it's pretty rare. Randy Moss was as much of a freak as anybody, and he dive-bombed off a cliff at 33 (went from 83 for 1263 and 13 to 28 for 393 and 5 with three different teams).

I would say it's an interesting group of receivers with pretty wide error bars.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
16,406
Philadelphia
Great point. Edelman had 850 receiving yards last year. No 33-year-old receiver had that many in 2018. Fitzgerald had over 1,000 in 2016 and 2017, and five guys beat 850 in 2014 (Anquan Boldin, Malcolm Floyd, Steve Smith, Roddy White, Andre Johnson), but it's pretty rare. Randy Moss was as much of a freak as anybody, and he dive-bombed off a cliff at 33 (went from 83 for 1263 and 13 to 28 for 393 and 5 with three different teams).

I would say it's an interesting group of receivers with pretty wide error bars.
That’s a pretty sobering bit of research. Jules has probably played fewer snaps than most receivers who make it to 33, given how little he played early in his career and his age when entering the league. Let’s hope that gives him some longer life as a top tier player.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
60,553
Oregon
[B]Mike Reiss[/B]‏Verified account @MikeReiss Aug 15
Programming note: On Sunday's E:60, Shelley Smith sits down w/ former Patriots OL Ryan O'Callaghan, who used football as a way to hide a longtime secret - that he was gay. O'Callaghan thought he would never be accepted, until a chat w/ Scott Pioli changed his life. (ESPN2, 9a ET)
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
12,071
Mansfield MA
[B]Mike Reiss[/B]‏Verified account @MikeReiss Aug 15
Programming note: On Sunday's E:60, Shelley Smith sits down w/ former Patriots OL Ryan O'Callaghan, who used football as a way to hide a longtime secret - that he was gay. O'Callaghan thought he would never be accepted, until a chat w/ Scott Pioli changed his life. (ESPN2, 9a ET)
There was a really good article on O'Callaghan a couple years ago when this first went public:
 

sonofgodcf

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2005
621
The toilet.
Didn't go through the game thread, but did anyone else notice the rookie fullback Johnson (#47)? I only caught the highlights, but he seemed to be lighting everyone up on blocks.
 

Over Guapo Grande

panty merchant
SoSH Member
Nov 29, 2005
1,570
Worcester
Didn't go through the game thread, but did anyone else notice the rookie fullback Johnson (#47)? I only caught the highlights, but he seemed to be lighting everyone up on blocks.
He is of the International Player Pathway program. He is a "freebie" that they can carry on the practice squad, but will be ineligible to be on the 53 man roster this year (unless he makes the team out of camp, I guess).
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
17,539
Newton
Right. And he had a reason for doing that that year.

I bet they keep three. Stidham looks good but not necessarily ready to take the reins. Hoyer had a terrible throw last night that got picked (by Logan Ryan no less) but in other places looked like he might be decent at managing the offense for a game or two. A few nice throws downfield IIRC.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
21,263
Hingham, MA
Right. And he had a reason for doing that that year.

I bet they keep three. Stidham looks good but not necessarily ready to take the reins. Hoyer had a terrible throw last night that got picked (by Logan Ryan no less) but in other places looked like he might be decent at managing the offense for a game or two. A few nice throws downfield IIRC.
While it was definitely not a good throw by Hoyer, I thought Berrios made a really poor cut.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
7,598
So - does BB carry three QB's on the roster to start the season?

He hasn't done it often in 20 years.

I recall the last time was Brady, Jimmy G and Brissett.
I think Hoyer becomes a trade candidate after next week, but it's an interesting conundrum.

IIRC, in that season you referenced, Brissett went on IR once Brady came back and Garropolo's shoulder healed. So they were running with 2 QB's most of that season anyway. With the logjam at some other positions, and the fact that Belichick has always valued roster depth across the board, I think he could be willing to roll the dice on the rookie backup.

Another option is that Hoyer gets traded at or near the deadline as the PUP folks become eligible to return.
 

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
21,749
Melrose, MA
So - does BB carry three QB's on the roster to start the season?

He hasn't done it often in 20 years.

I recall the last time was Brady, Jimmy G and Brissett.
I think he keeps 3. It has been a long time since he kept a rookie as #2. Might have been Hoyer, actually.
 
Apr 24, 2019
227
I’d think they would only trade Hoyer if they were def going to cut him. They’re not going to get much more than a 7th for Hoyer. He’s more valuable to the Patriots than any other team.
 

SeoulSoxFan

Dope
Dope
Jun 27, 2006
18,963
My god, EIGHT quarterback pressures for Winovich:

View: http://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1163148316844183553


Apparently, PFF had a first-round grade on him:

"A first-round talent on PFF’s board turned third-round gift to the Pats, Chase Winvoch was a one-man wrecking crew against Tennessee. The former Michigan edge defender was seemingly unblockable in run defense and rushing the passer. He recorded multiple pressures and several other positive marks in run defense."

 

SeoulSoxFan

Dope
Dope
Jun 27, 2006
18,963
Baldinger says "Chase" is the most appropriate name for the 3rd rounder:

View: https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/1163191936020373505


Non-stop motor, various techniques, quick recognition. It's way, way too early but I don't think I've been this excited about a DE since McGuinest.

I didn't know that he started out as a linebacker, switched to TE, then settled at DE at Michigan. Also studied ballet and ju-jitsu to improve his play (Wiki).
 

Pxer

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 16, 2007
1,423
Maine
Someone reassure me this isn't Jake Bequette redux. Good motor, below average athlete, intelligent, great in agility drills.
 
Last edited:

dcdrew10

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
1,231
Washington, DC via Worcester
Someone reassure me this isn't Jake Bequette redux. Good motor, below average athlete, intelligent, great in agility drills.
Chase Winovich did more in one half of a preseason game than Bequette did in his entire career. Bequette, however, did join the Army in his post-NFL days and is an infantry officer. If his Twitter profile use of RLTW (Rangers Lead the Way) isn't BS, he's a Ranger. I can't imagine he'd be in the Army and pretending to be a Ranger. Not bad for a guy who went to Georgetown Law.
 
Last edited:

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
35,218
The knock I read most frequently was that he was an average athlete. He then had a great combine (including the best short shuttle and third best three cone among all EDGE guys there) but it didn't seem like it changed minds, for some reason.
I'd asked someone the same thing this weekend at a family wedding and they seemed to think it had been size-related (I had heard athleticism as well). Then the moment BB put his name on the card everyone instantly said "Oh s!@# what a steal for New England" so who knows where the disconnect was.

Someone reassure me this isn't Jake Bequette redux. Good motor, below average athlete, intelligent, great in agility drills.
I don't remember Jake Bequette ever doing anything of note in a game situation. Though I do share the sentiment that the rookie/young guy performances so far have felt too good to be true. But then again many were over the moon after the draft, so it's not exactly out of nowhere. Fun off/pre-season so far.
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
12,071
Mansfield MA
The knock I read most frequently was that he was an average athlete. He then had a great combine (including the best short shuttle and third best three cone among all EDGE guys there) but it didn't seem like it changed minds, for some reason.
His agilities and 40 were great, but his jumps were mediocre and he measured out small (per Mockdraftable, 19th percentile height, 26th percentile weight, 28th percentile wingspan). So he probably wasn't a great SPARQ / Force Player / explosiveness metric guy because those formulas are heavily dependent on jumps and weight. Then he also gets branded with the "tweener" brush because he's undersized for a 4-3 end but there are questions about his ability to cover in space like a 3-4 OLB.
 

McBride11

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,524
Charleston, SC
Chase Winovich did more in one half of a preseason game than Bequette did in his entire career. Bequette, however, did join the Army in his post-NFL days and is an infantry officer. If his Twitter profile use of RLTW (Rangers Lead the Way) isn't BS, he's a Ranger. I can't imagine he'd be in the Army and pretending to be a Ranger. Not bad for a guy who went to Georgetown Law.
Wiki currently has him at Ft Campbell, which is not a Ranger base. Though Ft Cambpell does house the 5th SF Group, most recently famous for ODA 555 and 595 that deployed to Afghanistan shortly after 9/11 (depicted in the movie 12 Strong).
Of course Wiki could be outdated and or he could be planning on moving from SF to Ranger school.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
39,318
deep inside Guido territory
This clears things up

[B]Jeff Howe[/B]‏Verified account @jeffphowe 6m6 minutes ago
Julian Edelman is here at practice in pads and uniform. Josh Gordon is here going through the stretch but not wearing pads or uniform. N’Keal Harry and Maurice Harris are here in pads. Cam Meredith is here in a jersey but no pads.
Edelman is coming off NFI if he is practicing. Gordon not suited up for practice means he's on NFI. Pleasantly surprised about Maurice Harris.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
60,553
Oregon
Brady on Jakobi Meyers: "He's done a great job and he's taken advantage of his opportunities," quarterback Tom Brady said. "I think that's really what we try to stress to anybody -- the football doesn't care how old you are, whether you were drafted or not. The football doesn't care how much experience you have. It just knows that when I let that ball go, it's got to be in the hands of the guy who it's intended for."
 

TheShynessClinic

SoSH's Doug Neidermeyer
SoSH Member
Oct 25, 2007
9,204
Between here and everywhere.
Wiki currently has him at Ft Campbell, which is not a Ranger base. Though Ft Cambpell does house the 5th SF Group, most recently famous for ODA 555 and 595 that deployed to Afghanistan shortly after 9/11 (depicted in the movie 12 Strong).
Of course Wiki could be outdated and or he could be planning on moving from SF to Ranger school.
You can be a Ranger without being assigned to Ranger Bat.

He's currently assigned to the 101st. Likely, he went to IBOLC, then Ranger School, got tabbed, and then was assigned as a PL at the 101st.
 

bakahump

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 8, 2001
6,254
Maine
You can be a Ranger without being assigned to Ranger Bat.

He's currently assigned to the 101st. Likely, he went to IBOLC, then Ranger School, got tabbed, and then was assigned as a PL at the 101st.
+1 was just going to post something similar.

Though some Rangers would disagree. :eyeroll:

The fact he is assigned to Campbell (and most likely the 101) is a strong point (though obviously not the end all be all) that he could indeed be a Ranger as his instagram seems to imply.
 

McBride11

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,524
Charleston, SC
You can be a Ranger without being assigned to Ranger Bat.

He's currently assigned to the 101st. Likely, he went to IBOLC, then Ranger School, got tabbed, and then was assigned as a PL at the 101st.
+1 was just going to post something similar.

Though some Rangers would disagree. :eyeroll:

The fact he is assigned to Campbell (and most likely the 101) is a strong point (though obviously not the end all be all) that he could indeed be a Ranger as his instagram seems to imply.
Didnt realize that. Thanks