2018 Ryder Cup- Le Golf National

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,609
deep inside Guido territory
Saturday morning
Garcia/Rory vs Finau/Koepka
Casey/Hatton vs. DJ/Fowler
Molinari/Fleetwood vs. Woods/Reed
Poulter/Rahm vs. JT/Spieth

So for Europe, that means no Rose, Noren, Stenson, or Olesen. No Phil, Bryson, Bubba, or Webb for USA
 

The Needler

New Member
Dec 7, 2016
1,803
Hindsight is everything, but I was honestly shocked that Phil Mickelson and Bubba Watson played alternate shot while Tiger Woods and Koepka sat.

I understand you don't want to sit those guys completely on the first day but say they play in the morning together and then you bring out Reed and Tiger in alternate shot?
Frankly, I don't. This isn't Little League; there's no rule that everyone gets to play on Friday. The rules say each team has to have 12 players, and they all have to go out in singles. I think the USA plays against its strengths by adopting these kinds of unwritten rules. You should send your best teams out there in every session. If that means Phil doesn't play on Friday, or Bubba doesn't play teams at all, so be it. But the US had momentum, and has the advantage of having the best players, and then pissed it down the drain in the afternoon at least partially in an attempt to appease personalities or let everyone get their team participation ribbon. It's nuts.
 

gtg807y

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 31, 2006
3,174
Atlanta, GA
I still can't believe Koepka didn't play both sessions. Is there anyone on this team less likely to get worn down by playing all 5 sessions?
 

Lupe Whalewatch

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
3,173
Worlds End
Frankly, I don't. This isn't Little League; there's no rule that everyone gets to play on Friday. The rules say each team has to have 12 players, and they all have to go out in singles. I think the USA plays against its strengths by adopting these kinds of unwritten rules. You should send your best teams out there in every session. If that means Phil doesn't play on Friday, or Bubba doesn't play teams at all, so be it. But the US had momentum, and has the advantage of having the best players, and then pissed it down the drain in the afternoon at least partially in an attempt to appease personalities or let everyone get their team participation ribbon. It's nuts.
I don’t disagree, but I think the counter argument to that is what happened to Mark James and the Euros at Brookline in 99. My memory is a bit hazy, but feel like Vandevelde and 2 other guys? didn’t play at all until Sunday, and got waxed in the singles.
 

The Needler

New Member
Dec 7, 2016
1,803
I don’t disagree, but I think the counter argument to that is what happened to Mark James and the Euros at Brookline in 99. My memory is a bit hazy, but feel like Vandevelde and 2 other guys? didn’t play at all until Sunday, and got waxed in the singles.
Sandelin, Coltart, and Van de Velde. Yes, they lost to Woods, Mickelson, and Love. There's certainly correlation, but that's two nobodies and someone famous for the greatest choke in majors history against three hall-of-famers. Not sure you can assume any causation there.
 

Lupe Whalewatch

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
3,173
Worlds End
I’m with you, I just think that since then, it potentially plays a role into these guys thinking. I’m absolutely all for rolling with the hot hand regardless of anyone’s feelings, etc.
And now I know why I couldn’t remember the other two...wow
 

gtg807y

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 31, 2006
3,174
Atlanta, GA
Coltart and especially Sandelin had no chance. Jarmo and Phil had real bad blood. Bones had some great stuff about their history in a recent NLU pod. Basically had a real concern for actual physical violence between the two.
 

Lupe Whalewatch

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
3,173
Worlds End
I was there for Saturday-Sunday, and remember bumping into Vandevelde on a couple different occasions Saturday. He was just walking around watching golf like a fan. People were following him around heckling him pretty good. You could also go up to the beer stands and order as many beers as you could carry...not sure if the two were related.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,609
deep inside Guido territory
As bad as the alternate shot session was, the score is about what everyone would have expected it after today. The goal tomorrow should be at least get to 7 points tomorrow. 8 or 9 would be awesome. At least get it to where you don't have to win the majority of singles matches to get to 14.
 

fletcherpost

sosh's feckin' poet laureate
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,187
Glasgow, Scotland
Saturday morning
Garcia/Rory vs Finau/Koepka
Casey/Hatton vs. DJ/Fowler
Molinari/Fleetwood vs. Woods/Reed
Poulter/Rahm vs. JT/Spieth

So for Europe, that means no Rose, Noren, Stenson, or Olesen. No Phil, Bryson, Bubba, or Webb for USA
Looking at the European pairs there, i wonder if their strategy is to half the fourballs and win the foursomes, and the USA will be looking to do the reverse. The Casey/Hatton pairing looks a little weak. I prefer the USA pairings and match-ups and can see them winning 3-1. Anything better than that I'd see as a result from the European perspective.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,861
Don't know all the numbers, but this afternoon's matches have to rank as one of the most lopsided sessions in Ryder Cup history. The US got absolutely demolished in every single one of those matches. Precisely zero of them were competitive. In four matches, the US won 10 holes. Europe won 27.
 

PaulinMyrBch

Don't touch his dog food
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 10, 2003
8,316
MYRTLE BEACH!!!!
Bubba and Phil shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a Foursomes match. I was pretty shocked to see Rory bounce back in the afternoon. He didn’t look comfortable at all in the morning. The first day is so important, you can’t get caught up in playing everyone, especially when the guys that shouldn’t be playing are in the foursomes group.

I will add I really like Speith’s putting when he’s in a four ball match. With a partner as a safety net he’s able to take a more aggressive line. Serves him well.

My prediction, we win in the AM but it gets flipped in the afternoon, slimmer margins, and we go into Sunday down 9-7.
 

The Needler

New Member
Dec 7, 2016
1,803
I feel like Michelob Ultra seized upon Kavanaugh’s testimony yesterday, and is running this “I like beer” commercial a lot more.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
Did Furyk have a rationale for rolling out Bubba and Phil in foresomes? It blows my mind that he thought that was the one format to put them out in on day 1.
I think too much is made about foursomes pairings. Play the fucking ball. It’s systemic in the American game that we get trounced every session in this format. It’s embarrassing to resolve it to pairings. Either practice it more or incorporate it into events. The majority of guys play the same ProV. The difference isn’t that drastic going to a Bridgestone or a Volvik or a TM for 20 shots isn’t drastic enough to excuse their piss poor performance. Bottom line, hit a fucking golf shot. If you can’t focus on that, there’s bigger problems. Phil and Bubba have both been playing like shot so I agree with you there. But I also don’t think you can ice guys. I’m struggling to find a viable argument they would have performed better had they been in the morning session.
 

The Needler

New Member
Dec 7, 2016
1,803
It’s not that complicated. Every shot counts in foursomes, and every shot does not count in fourballs. If for whatever reason you feel obligated to play a weaker or more inconsistent player, it should be done in foursomes, where poor play may be hidden or compensated for by better play of a partner.
 

Freddy Linn

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
9,151
Where it rains. No, seriously.
I think too much is made about foursomes pairings. Play the fucking ball. It’s systemic in the American game that we get trounced every session in this format. It’s embarrassing to resolve it to pairings. Either practice it more or incorporate it into events. The majority of guys play the same ProV. The difference isn’t that drastic going to a Bridgestone or a Volvik or a TM for 20 shots isn’t drastic enough to excuse their piss poor performance. Bottom line, hit a fucking golf shot. If you can’t focus on that, there’s bigger problems. Phil and Bubba have both been playing like shot so I agree with you there. But I also don’t think you can ice guys. I’m struggling to find a viable argument they would have performed better had they been in the morning session.
Where did I mention pairings? Or golf balls? Or playing both morning and afternoon?
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
Where did I mention pairings? Or golf balls? Or playing both morning and afternoon?
Morning afternoon is quite clearly in reference to format. Which, yes you cited.

If you weren’t citing pairings or golf balls then I have no earthly idea why you’d specifically cite playing Mickelson and Bubba in the afternoon on foursomes. If they’re playing like shit - which both are - they’re playing like shit. I don’t see much difference end of day in format.
 

Freddy Linn

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
9,151
Where it rains. No, seriously.
Morning afternoon is quite clearly in reference to format. Which, yes you cited.

If you weren’t citing pairings or golf balls then I have no earthly idea why you’d specifically cite playing Mickelson and Bubba in the afternoon on foursomes. If they’re playing like shit - which both are - they’re playing like shit. I don’t see much difference end of day in format.
Then we disagree. Phil and Bubba are poor choices for foresomes. Their weaknesses - which are different - are best mitigated in fourball.

If I’m captain I send them out once on Friday, in fourball.
 
Last edited:

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
Then we disagree. Phil and Bubba are poor choices for foresomes. Their weaknesses - which are different - are best mitigated in fourball.

If I’m captain I send them out once in Friday, in fourball.
Fair enough. I see your point, I just don’t find it an excuse for players at this level. Reasonable mind scan differ I think.

Off point, DJ is lighting it up.
 

Freddy Linn

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
9,151
Where it rains. No, seriously.
Fair enough. I see your point, I just don’t find it an excuse for players at this level. Reasonable mind scan differ I think.

Off point, DJ is lighting it up.
I’m not excusing the players, they play when and where they are told and need to perform. Furyk sat them for one format to have them play the other. It is odd that the format he chose for that one round isn’t the best for their styles. That is on the captain.
 

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
36,273
306, row 14
Course set up appears to have been a major advantage for the Euro’s. Americans struggling to get even 1 ball in the fairway on most tees.