2018 PGA Tour

[cshea]

I don’t think he would play this week even if he could. I think it is a little too much- 7 total rounds and 36 on Saturday and Sunday if he were to go deep and make the finals or win. I guess if he knew he was in in advance he probably would’ve skipped the Valspar, but even when he was healthy he wasn’t playing the match play every year.

That said, I can’t see a reason why they couldn’t give him an exemption if he really wanted to play any of the WGC’s. At the rate he’s going probably going to end up qualifying for Firestone in August, so it’ll probably be moot.He obviously has the credentials and he moves the needle so much in ticket sales and tv rating that I can’t imagine the tours or sponsors would say no. Seems to work out for everyone. He’s also a Bridgestone guy so you’d think they’d want their guy in the field. WGCs are short fields so it is is not like he’d be taking a spot from anyone. The last 2 weeks he’s produced the highest non-Masters ratings in tour the past few years.

 

[cshea]

Poulter vs. Oosty this morning. The OWGR gurus I follow on Twitter are saying a Poulter win would get him to Augusta (needed to reach the QF at minimum). I’m sure Poults knows this.

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

Poulter vs. Oosty this morning. The OWGR gurus I follow on Twitter are saying a Poulter win would get him to Augusta (needed to reach the QF at minimum). I’m sure Poults knows this.

FWIW, Poulter said as much yesterday after the match when being interviewed on Sky Sports - he knows he needs a win this morning to get to The Masters.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

I think when you start giving exemptions to guys for the WGC events it starts to cheapen the event. Having to earn your way in by being top 50 in the world makes it special, otherwise it's just a normal tour event.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Considering that would apply to exactly one person (and odds are that it will never apply to anyone else again), yes, I'd oppose that. And I say that as a huge Tiger fan.

Also, what FL4WL3SS said.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

I don’t think he would play this week even if he could. I think it is a little too much- 7 total rounds and 36 on Saturday and Sunday if he were to go deep and make the finals or win. I guess if he knew he was in in advance he probably would’ve skipped the Valspar, but even when he was healthy he wasn’t playing the match play every year.

That said, I can’t see a reason why they couldn’t give him an exemption if he really wanted to play any of the WGC’s. At the rate he’s going probably going to end up qualifying for Firestone in August, so it’ll probably be moot.He obviously has the credentials and he moves the needle so much in ticket sales and tv rating that I can’t imagine the tours or sponsors would say no. Seems to work out for everyone. He’s also a Bridgestone guy so you’d think they’d want their guy in the field. WGCs are short fields so it is is not like he’d be taking a spot from anyone. The last 2 weeks he’s produced the highest non-Masters ratings in tour the past few years.

Doesn't a short field mean, by definition, he'd be taking a spot from someone who's earned it? No, he wouldn't we taking a spot from a guy trying to get his card, but he'd be taking the spot from someone who's played well and deserves the pay day and chance to compete. If I were the last guy to make qualifying and I got bumped because the tournament could sell more tickets, I'd be pretty pissed.

 

[cshea]

Doesn't a short field mean, by definition, he'd be taking a spot from someone who's earned it? No, he wouldn't we taking a spot from a guy trying to get his card, but he'd be taking the spot from someone who's played well and deserves the pay day and chance to compete. If I were the last guy to make qualifying and I got bumped because the tournament could sell more tickets, I'd be pretty pissed.

The match play, yes, because there is a hard limit on the number of entrants. He’d take the place of the 64th player. The other 3 WGC’s though I don’t think it would be a big deal. They would just be adding him as an exemption. It wouldn’t affect anyone otherwise qualified, but I do see the point about it “cheapening” the WGC.

I don’t think it is really that big of a deal. Seems he’s on track to get back into the top 50 relatively soon which will mean he’ll be all set. Plus I think we’re just talking about Firestone and Mexico. I don’t think the match play is something he’ll play again, and the other in is in China and his days of traveling the world to play golf may be over. I’m not sure if he’s even ever teed it up in the China event.

 

[The Needler]

The match play, yes, because there is a hard limit on the number of entrants. He’d take the place of the 64th player. The other 3 WGC’s though I don’t think it would be a big deal. They would just be adding him as an exemption. It wouldn’t affect anyone otherwise qualified, but I do see the point about it “cheapening” the WGC.

I don’t think it is really that big of a deal. Seems he’s on track to get back into the top 50 relatively soon which will mean he’ll be all set. Plus I think we’re just talking about Firestone and Mexico. I don’t think the match play is something he’ll play again, and the other in is in China and his days of traveling the world to play golf may be over. I’m not sure if he’s even ever teed it up in the China event.

He's played the Chinese event four times, but he skipped it the last few times he was healthy enough to play. Probably true that he may be done with that one. But there's no reason to believe he would skip the match play. He loves the format. If he's healthy and eligible, I think he absolutely plays.

 

[Comfortably Lomb]

I think when you start giving exemptions to guys for the WGC events it starts to cheapen the event. Having to earn your way in by being top 50 in the world makes it special, otherwise it's just a normal tour event.

I would agree except it's Tiger. The guy should be treated uniquely. They might as well have a Tiger exception to get him into the field for any event he wants to show up at.

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

You could certainly argue that the WGC events wouldn't exist, and certainly wouldn't be as lucrative if they did exist, without Tiger. That's more where I was coming from with my suggestion.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

I think everyone gets where you're coming from, my question would be if you still felt the same if he wasn't playing well and looking healthy right now? If this was 2015/16 would you still think he should get an exemption, so he could gimp around, chili dip his wedges and miss the cut?

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

Yes, if he'd wanted one then, I would have given him one - he's earned it. (I'm not sure he would have taken one, though.)

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Yeah I just disagree. He’d deserve it if he were ranked top 50 (or 64 for the match play). That’s the whole point of the series. He’ll get his life time achievement reward exemption at the US Open next year, if needed. It’s a moot point anyway, if stays healthy he will be top 50 easily and soon enough. If he’s not and doesn’t rise, I don’t really care to see him get his ass kicked, nor do I think he would expose himself to it.

Again, I’m a huge Tiger fan and I understand your points about what he’s done for the game and his achievements; I just don’t think you say to the rest of the field ‘this guy gets in no matter what’.

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

Meanwhile, apparently Ian Poulter did *not* qualify for The Masters after all:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/mar/24/ian-poulter-set-to-miss-masters-augusta

That's gotta hurt.

 

[Comfortably Lomb]

Yeah I just disagree. He’d deserve it if he were ranked top 50 (or 64 for the match play). That’s the whole point of the series. He’ll get his life time achievement reward exemption at the US Open next year, if needed. It’s a moot point anyway, if stays healthy he will be top 50 easily and soon enough. If he’s not and doesn’t rise, I don’t really care to see him get his ass kicked, nor do I think he would expose himself to it.

Again, I’m a huge Tiger fan and I understand your points about what he’s done for the game and his achievements; I just don’t think you say to the rest of the field ‘this guy gets in no matter what’.

They owe him their fortunes. Sure, you do say that. He's simply bigger than the rest of the tour.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Maybe they should let Nicklaus in too? Or start giving Tiger mulligans? I mean, they should at least give him a breakfast ball and let him roll it over in the fairway, right?

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Even better, he should probably be allowed to use a cart too, maybe even wear shorts.

 

[cshea]

Would it really be that much different than the USGA giving special US Open exemptions to past champions who lose exemptions and are not able to qualify on their own? And in those cases they are taking a spot away from another player who could otherwise play.

 

[Comfortably Lomb]

Would it really be that much different than the USGA giving special US Open exemptions to past champions who lose exemptions and are not able to qualify on their own? And in those cases they are taking a spot away from another player who could otherwise play.

No. Heck, the PGA Tour gives a lifetime exemption to 20 time winners. PP is confusing getting on the course in the first place with the rules of play during the tournament itself. The fields in these things aren't sacrosanct.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

I’m not confusing anything. If you open the subject of creating special rules for him, that opens it to every aspect of the game, be it exemptions or rules of play. It’s a line in the sand. You’re talking about creating an exemption that applies to literally one player and likely never to any one ever again. The field isn’t sacrosanct, but the entire concept of the WGC is it’s the top of the world* rankings - and only them. That’s, like, the whole point of the thing. Which is also why it is different than the US Open, where the whole concept is that quite literally anyone can be in it.

 

[Comfortably Lomb]

I’m not confusing anything. If you open the subject of creating special rules for him, that opens it to every aspect of the game, be it exemptions or rules of play. It’s a line in the sand. You’re talking about creating an exemption that applies to literally one player and likely never to any one ever again. The field isn’t sacrosanct, but the entire concept of the WGC is it’s the top of the world* rankings - and only them. That’s, like, the whole point of the thing. Which is also why it is different than the US Open, where the whole concept is that quite literally anyone can be in it.

No, it really doesn't. That's an absurd statement.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

But it’s not absurd that a guy that hasn’t been competitive or relevant in, what?, 5 years should get an auto invite to a series of events that are designed to highlight the top players in the game based off his career and have eligibility rules changed for him ?

Cool. Should he get an automatic spot on Ryder Cup and President’s Cup teams as well? I mean, he’s earned it, right? All those guys make more money now because of him, so who gives a shit if his game doesn’t help or he’s not competitive. Everyone will just be glad he’s on the team.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

But it’s not absurd that a guy that hasn’t been competitive or relevant in, what?, 5 years should get an auto invite to a series of events that are designed to highlight the top players in the game based off his career and have eligibility rules changed for him ?

Cool. Should he get an automatic spot on Ryder Cup and President’s Cup teams as well? I mean, he’s earned it, right? All those guys make more money now because of him, so who gives a shit if his game doesn’t help or he’s not competitive. Everyone will just be glad he’s on the team.

I think you're taking it a little too serious though. It was a fun suggestion. I don't necessarily agree with it either, but it's not the end of the world either.

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

The best eight players in the tournament played two rounds yesterday, and there wasn't a single post in this thread about any of the golf that was played. Compare that to what this thread was like last week when Tiger was on the march - both in terms of the number and content of posts and the number of different SoSHers who were involved here - and I think that amplifies my point rather well.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

I think you're taking it a little too serious though. It was a fun suggestion. I don't necessarily agree with it either, but it's not the end of the world either.

No, I just didn’t do a good job expressing my point. I’m not taking it as serious as it may seem. I wouldn’t exactly boycott it or lose sleep. And I want to see as much Tiger as I can. I just get a hair across my butt sometimes when the idea of entitlement arises.

 

[TFP]

Holy crap what a choke job by Noren there. Had an 8 footer on 17 and a 7 footer on 18 to win and neither had a chance. Then did...something with his putt on the first playoff hole and almost putted off the green to lose.

Glad for Kisner though. #GoKizgo

 

[cshea]

Seems Bubba’s going to make the Ryder Cup team.

 

[TFP]

Also the coverage of JT's illegal drop on 16 was brutal by the Golf Channel. They skirted around it, wouldn't actually admit it was illegal, and hemmed and hawed the whole time trying not to sell out the rules official who completely botched it. It was illegal from the outset, should have explained why and what the penalty was (loss of hole).

It didn't matter in the outcome, which is why there's even less excuse for being honest and informative with what was happening.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Seems Bubba’s going to make the Ryder Cup team.

As much as I can't stand him, if he keeps playing this well all season, that's a good thing for the Americans.

 

[cshea]

Kiz in danger of getting run over here. 2 down already and scrambling on 3.

 

[TFP]

Kiz in danger of getting run over here. 2 down already and scrambling on 3.

Now in danger of 4 down after 4.

 

[cshea]

And Kiz blows his tee shot on 5 into the deep crap while Bubba is on the fringe. This is ugly.

 

[TFP]

We might be approaching 10 & 8 territory

 

[johnmd20]

Kisner LUCKY to not be down 6 after 6.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

Match play isn’t made for TV. This is a prime example.

 

[johnmd20]

Match play isn’t made for TV. This is a prime example.

It is the major problem with the set up. The final day is brutal to watch and beyond boring.

 

[cshea]

Make Bubba put one of those Volvik’s in play or play right handed.

 

[johnmd20]

Bubba is 7 up through 10. I don't think even a Volvik could slow this train down.

 

[cshea]

Bubba is playing well but this is more of a Kisner implosion. I think Bubba is only -2. Kiz is like +5 or something.

 

[TFP]

Well that was anticlimactic.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

I enjoyed it

 

[southshoresoxfan]

Should have let Tiger tag in vs Bubba right?

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Make Bubba put one of those Volvik’s in play or play right handed.

He’s switched back to Tiltleist.

 

[cshea]

I know, it was intended as a joke to make that match more competitive.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Ah, sorry, I misread it. Mea culpa.

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

It is the major problem with the set up. The final day is brutal to watch and beyond boring.

This issue could be mitigated to a decent extent by scheduling more consolation matches on Sunday. Have the Round of 16 losers play each other on Sunday morning just before the Semifinals (so you have six matches on the course at once instead of two) to determine which four golfers finish T9 and which four finish T13, and then have the Quarterfinal losers play each other on Sunday afternoon just before the Final and 3rd/4th place match (so you have four matches on the course) to determine which two golfers finish T5 and which two finish T7. Or have all of these consolation matches on the Sunday afternoon, or split them in whatever other manner you wish to split them for television purposes. The point is, in a normal tour event, we might happily enough watch the final round of a tournament in which only two people have a chance of winning - e.g., the Stenson-Mickelson duel in the Open Championship a few years ago - as long as there is enough golf around them to fill the dead air between their shots. And Tour players are used to showing up on Sunday to grind for slightly better positioning on the leaderboard and a little more money (and ranking points) even when they have no chance of winning. So I don't see why this couldn't happen.

FWIW, in addition to or instead of the above, I'd also love to see a medal-matchplay event on Tour. Do you remember the old Dunhill Cup in St. Andrews? You want to have head-to-head matches between individual players, but you don't want to risk having matches end before you can get to the Road Hole and the Valley of Sin. So you use the old US Open playoff format, which gives you the mano-a-mano element but also ensures that a) each match will last at least 18 holes, so there are no gaps to fill on television at the end of the day no matter what happens, and b) the possibility of two- or three-shot swings late on will at least notionally keep each match in the balance for longer. The downside is that you lose some of the risk-taking matchplay is famous for until such risks are absolutely necessary, but I think that'd be a small price to pay.

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

Incidentally, the final day is a lot more brutal and boring to watch when you get Sunday afternoon matches like the ones we got yesterday than when you get something like the Day-Dubuisson championship match from a few years ago. But then, you get runaway victories sometimes on Tour as well; at least yesterday's matches were put out of their misery earlier than they would have been in a pure strokeplay situation.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

The problem is if Kinser is tied for the lead teeing off on a medal play final Sunday and he shoots 78, he just drops off the leaderboard. There are other guys that rise up or are in it all day. Match play finals can’t account for one guy getting hot, one getting cold, or both. They really rely on two guys playing nearly the same round for it to be exciting. It really doesn’t matter if they both play good or both play bad, as long as it doesn’t stray far from 2up or 2down. So its really a crap shoot. The chances of both playing nearly identical rounds is slim.

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

True - you won't as often get a close, dramatic finish to a matchplay or medal-matchplay event as you will in a strokeplay event. But the flip side is that you get *so* much more drama every other day of matchplay and medal-matchplay events - I'm far more interested in the pre-weekend action from Austin than the pre-weekend action from any other non-major tour event. And there are ways to mitigate the issues with the play on Sunday, if Finchem et al. want to pursue them.

 

[The Needler]

True - you won't as often get a close, dramatic finish to a matchplay or medal-matchplay event as you will in a strokeplay event. But the flip side is that you get *so* much more drama every other day of matchplay and medal-matchplay events - I'm far more interested in the pre-weekend action from Austin than the pre-weekend action from any other non-major tour event. And there are ways to mitigate the issues with the play on Sunday, if Finchem et al. want to pursue them.

Finchem has been retired for over a year. Jay Monahan is the PGA Tour commissioner.