2013 Broncos: The Unholy Alliance

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
21,642
Philadelphia
That's Peyton and Wes in the thread title for those of you who are a little slow.
 
I like these team specific threads and we don't have one on the biggest threat in the AFC.  I'll kick this off with three observations:
 
Ryan Clady has a Lisfranc injury and may go on the season-ending IR.  That's a pretty huge blow as Clady is a dominant LT and the Broncos are one blindside hit to Peyton's neck/spine away from a lost season.  The backup is Chris Clark, a journeyman type who played only 64 snaps last season.
 
The Bronco defense has looked surprisingly good to me in limited viewing, despite missing Von Miller.  Wesley Woodyard and my RealFantasy boy Duke Ihenacho stand out as fast hard hitting young players in the middle of the scheme.  Chris Harris and Rahim Moore also look like they're emerging as very strong coverage players in the secondary.  Fat Elway has done a nice job adding talent to this team.
 
The passing offensive is obviously very explosive but I'm not convinced that they can run the ball and I think that's something to watch going forward.  One of BB's favorite strategies for containing Peyton has always been to play sub packages and bait him into checking into a lot of runs.  If Denver sucks at running the ball, that scheme becomes a lot easier to maintain.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
13,520
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
I like these team specific threads and we don't have one on the biggest threat in the AFC.  I'll kick this off with three observations:
 
Ryan Clady has a Lisfranc injury and may go on the season-ending IR.  That's a pretty huge blow as Clady is a dominant LT and the Broncos are one blindside hit to Peyton's neck/spine away from a lost season.  The backup is Chris Clark, a journeyman type who played only 64 snaps last season.
 
The Bronco defense has looked surprisingly good to me in limited viewing, despite missing Von Miller.  Wesley Woodyard and my RealFantasy boy Duke Ihenacho stand out as fast hard hitting young players in the middle of the scheme.  Chris Harris and Rahim Moore also look like they're emerging as very strong coverage players in the secondary.  Fat Elway has done a nice job adding talent to this team.
 
The passing offensive is obviously very explosive but I'm not convinced that they can run the ball and I think that's something to watch going forward.  One of BB's favorite strategies for containing Peyton has always been to play sub packages and bait him into checking into a lot of runs.  If Denver sucks at running the ball, that scheme becomes a lot easier to maintain.
 
I know, I know, never wish for injuries.
 
But if they were to have one, I was hoping for one of their dynamic playmaker's instead. If any QB can handle having to get the ball off a little quicker, it's Peyton. He's had some fairly marginal offensive lines in front of him over the years, and it's never really seemed to kill him.
 
Of course, I won't look a gift horse in the mouth. No pro-bowl LT is a good thing.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
13,520
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Oops, never finished the thread title.  Maybe somebody can edit that?
 
You can. Edit your main post, go to "full editor" and you can change the title.
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
I think Denver might go 16-0. They've got a pretty incredible passing attack, the potential for an above average running attack and if Von Miller removes his head from his asshole, they might have a top-10 in the NFL defense. It's a loaded team.
 
And one I do not worry about in the bad weather games that either Denver (with home field advantage) or another top AFC team (none are dome teams, none in warm weather cities except Houston, which is both) will have to host in January. Peyton is wearing gloves in 100 degree heat in August and September for a reason. When it gets really cold, he's not the same guy and there's no reasonable medical reason to think he will ever get over the numbness brought on by nerve damage and cold. It's quite literally an Achilles heel just waiting to be exacerbated by conditions/time. 
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
21,642
Philadelphia
soxfan121 said:
I think Denver might go 16-0. They've got a pretty incredible passing attack, the potential for an above average running attack and if Von Miller removes his head from his asshole, they might have a top-10 in the NFL defense. It's a loaded team.
 
And one I do not worry about in the bad weather games that either Denver (with home field advantage) or another top AFC team (none are dome teams, none in warm weather cities except Houston, which is both) will have to host in January. Peyton is wearing gloves in 100 degree heat in August and September for a reason. When it gets really cold, he's not the same guy and there's no reasonable medical reason to think he will ever get over the numbness brought on by nerve damage and cold. It's quite literally an Achilles heel just waiting to be exacerbated by conditions/time. 
 
Also potentially noteworthy: Some jackass decided that the Super Bowl should be played in New Jersey.  If the Broncos do make it that far, I'm not liking Peyton's chances of ripping balls through Seattle's or San Fracisco's secondary in 10 degree weather.
 

DaughtersofDougMirabelli

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 17, 2006
3,016
I noticed this on PFF yesterday and didn't really have the time or place to post it so this is the perfect thread. 
 
Though a lot of us in RealFantasy have latched onto it, Pro Football Focus is far from perfect. We've all started grading our teams and looking at their grades to see how well we are doing. As I was doing the math in my head of how my team had fared I stumbled upon the team page and was surprised by how low the Broncos as a team were rated, even on offense, they were only slightly better than the Patriots.
 
Now I don't always agree with PFF and they are a reason we will have a ton of arguments when ranking our teams but this is what PFF had to say about the Broncos compared to the Patriots (and their rank compared to the rest of the league):
 

 
A couple of things don't pass the eye test. 
1. The Broncos passing attack only rating 7th
2. The Broncos overall offense only being 2 spots ahead of the Pats
3. The Patriots having a weaker rushing attack than the Broncos
 
But some things that do pass the test. The Broncos aren't running the ball well, and their offensive line isn't helping. They also had above average pass protection but that was before Clady went down (+1.8), which could be a concern for them going forward. 
 
Everyone is appointing Denver as the kings of the AFC, and I'm in agreement there especially after watching their first two games. But they do have some troubles of their own, and if any team can slow down the 4 headed monster (Thomas x2, Welker, Decker) they can be beaten. 
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,269
The same jackasses will probably note that the average daily high in Denver in January is 42 degrees and schedule the start time accordingly. 
 
In any case, I believe his playoff woes antedated the nerve damage.
 

Ralphwiggum

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2012
9,419
Needham, MA
Starting in mid November, their schedule looks like this:  @Chargers, vs Chiefs, @ Patriots, @Chiefs, vs Titans, vs Chargers, @ Texans
 
A lot depends on whether the Chargers and Chiefs are legitimate NFL teams this year or not, but at least through two weeks of the season those divisional games look a lot tougher than they did in the pre-season.  The Titans also look like they might not suck, although that game is in Denver.  Nonetheless, there is at least a loss, and maybe two, in that stretch of games, even if they go perfect through the rest of their schedule.   That said, absent major injury they do look like they have the inside track to the #1 seed.
 

Stitch01

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
18,155
Boston
Its funny because Peyton has been between good and awesome in the playoffs from '03 on with the exception of
--against pre rules change Pats defenses
--every game of the one playoffs where he actually won a Super Bowl.
 
Man the '06 Colts were a wierd title team.  Terrible defense that's historically bad vs. the run carries HOF QB in his prime to only title.
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
dcmissle said:
The same jackasses will probably note that the average daily high in Denver in January is 42 degrees and schedule the start time accordingly. 
 
In any case, I believe his playoff woes antedated the nerve damage.
 
There aren't any 1 PM games in the playoffs - it's a 4:30 or 8 PM start time for games before the SB, which is itself a 6:30 start. And sure, there's a chance it's 60 and sunny in Denver in January. It's not likely, however. 
 
The playoff woes are largely overrated. Arguing that is arguing intangibles. Nerve damage and cold weather is not really debatable. 
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
13,886
Mansfield MA
DaughtersofDougMirabelli said:
I noticed this on PFF yesterday and didn't really have the time or place to post it so this is the perfect thread. 
 
Though a lot of us in RealFantasy have latched onto it, Pro Football Focus is far from perfect. We've all started grading our teams and looking at their grades to see how well we are doing. As I was doing the math in my head of how my team had fared I stumbled upon the team page and was surprised by how low the Broncos as a team were rated, even on offense, they were only slightly better than the Patriots.
 
Now I don't always agree with PFF and they are a reason we will have a ton of arguments when ranking our teams but this is what PFF had to say about the Broncos compared to the Patriots (and their rank compared to the rest of the league):
 

 
A couple of things don't pass the eye test. 
1. The Broncos passing attack only rating 7th
2. The Broncos overall offense only being 2 spots ahead of the Pats
3. The Patriots having a weaker rushing attack than the Broncos
 
But some things that do pass the test. The Broncos aren't running the ball well, and their offensive line isn't helping. They also had above average pass protection but that was before Clady went down (+1.8), which could be a concern for them going forward. 
 
Everyone is appointing Denver as the kings of the AFC, and I'm in agreement there especially after watching their first two games. But they do have some troubles of their own, and if any team can slow down the 4 headed monster (Thomas x2, Welker, Decker) they can be beaten. 
PFF's ratings aren't suited to straight sums like the charts above. Every player gets a grade between -2.0 and +2.0 on every play, reflecting (a subjective judgement of) how his performance compares to an average player at his position. In Denver's case, Peyton is an outstanding 7.0 in pass rating (#1 among QBs); Eric Decker is a terrible -6.5 (dead last among WR). Maybe that is an accurate assessment of their performances relative to average players at their positions, but there's no reason to believe a -6.5 from a WR basically cancels out a +7.0 from a QB. If you remove Decker's rating, the Broncos jump to the #2 passing team in the NFL, behind only Green Bay.
 
The other thing PFF's ratings likely don't capture are synergies between players and scheme advantages. There was a play in the first game where Julius Thomas ran a double-move and got wide open because Baltimore's safeties were worried about the WR and the LB bit on the fake. I doubt that shows up as a really highly graded play for Thomas (it took a good route but not an outstanding one and it was a routine catch and run) or Manning (it was an easy throw to an uncovered receiver) or Thomas / Decker / Welker (who drew coverage away but didn't factor into the play), but it did end up as a 23-yard TD for Denver.
 

Stitch01

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
18,155
Boston
soxfan121 said:
 
There aren't any 1 PM games in the playoffs - it's a 4:30 or 8 PM start time for games before the SB, which is itself a 6:30 start. And sure, there's a chance it's 60 and sunny in Denver in January. It's not likely, however. 
 
The playoff woes are largely overrated. Arguing that is arguing intangibles. Nerve damage and cold weather is not really debatable. 
The Sunday games in the Wild Card and divisional rounds start at 1 PM and the AFCCG will start at 3 PM this year. 
 
EDIT: Those are EST, so if Denver has homefield this year they will play the AFCCG with a 1 PM start.
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,269
Stitch01 said:
The Sunday games in the Wild Card and divisional rounds start at 1 PM and the AFCCG will start at 3 PM this year. 
 
And there is less than a 10% chance that the average daily high in Denver in January will be higher than 59 or lower than 27. 
 

neil

lurker
Jul 31, 2007
745
Kingston, RI
soxfan121 said:
I think Denver might go 16-0. They've got a pretty incredible passing attack, the potential for an above average running attack and if Von Miller removes his head from his asshole, they might have a top-10 in the NFL defense. It's a loaded team.
 
Also worth remembering that Champ Bailey is out as well. Their defense reminds me of the Pats D of a few years ago, getting a lot of takeaways but also giving up a lot of points and yards.
 

dbn

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 10, 2007
7,785
La Mancha.
soxfan121 said:
I think Denver might go 16-0. They've got a pretty incredible passing attack, the potential for an above average running attack and if Von Miller removes his head from his asshole, they might have a top-10 in the NFL defense. It's a loaded team.
 
And one I do not worry about in the bad weather games that either Denver (with home field advantage) or another top AFC team (none are dome teams, none in warm weather cities except Houston, which is both) will have to host in January. Peyton is wearing gloves in 100 degree heat in August and September for a reason. When it gets really cold, he's not the same guy and there's no reasonable medical reason to think he will ever get over the numbness brought on by nerve damage and cold. It's quite literally an Achilles heel just waiting to be exacerbated by conditions/time. 
 
 
soxfan121 said:
 
There aren't any 1 PM games in the playoffs - it's a 4:30 or 8 PM start time for games before the SB, which is itself a 6:30 start. And sure, there's a chance it's 60 and sunny in Denver in January. It's not likely, however. 
 
The playoff woes are largely overrated. Arguing that is arguing intangibles. Nerve damage and cold weather is not really debatable
 
Are the bolded really true?  When he first signed with the Broncos I had thought likewise but did my homework and looked for his performances in cold weather games.  However, there simply weren't many.  The Colts play in a dome and their division opponents (Ten, Hou, Jax) are all warm-weather places, so most of there December games were not in the cold.  They did play a few late-season cold-weather games, but Peyton played sparingly in most of them, as many were meaningless.  Just going from memory, it seemed that there were too few data to conclude anything.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
33,626
Hingham, MA
dbn said:
 
 
 
Are the bolded really true?  When he first signed with the Broncos I had thought likewise but did my homework and looked for his performances in cold weather games.  However, there simply weren't many.  The Colts play in a dome and their division opponents (Ten, Hou, Jax) are all warm-weather places, so most of there December games were not in the cold.  They did play a few late-season cold-weather games, but Peyton played sparingly in most of them, as many were meaningless.  Just going from memory, it seemed that there were too few data to conclude anything.
 
Last year's playoff game vs. Baltimore was on a FRIGID day - the high was like 14 degrees. It was a 2:30 MT kickoff, so the 2nd half was basically played in the dark. Manning played pretty well in that game, from both memory and stats (28-43, 290, 3 TDs, 2 INT).
 

MarcSullivaFan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 21, 2005
3,412
Hoo-hoo-hoo hoosier land.
Stitch01 said:
Its funny because Peyton has been between good and awesome in the playoffs from '03 on with the exception of
--against pre rules change Pats defenses
--every game of the one playoffs where he actually won a Super Bowl.
 
Man the '06 Colts were a wierd title team.  Terrible defense that's historically bad vs. the run carries HOF QB in his prime to only title.
I agree he's been pretty great since 2006, although throwing the pick 6 against the Saints was a brutal moment, even if he mostly played well in that game.
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
Stitch01 said:
The Sunday games in the Wild Card and divisional rounds start at 1 PM and the AFCCG will start at 3 PM this year. 
 
EDIT: Those are EST, so if Denver has homefield this year they will play the AFCCG with a 1 PM start.
 
First, a 16-0 team isn't playing in a Wild Card round game. 
 
Second, got a link? FOX & CBS don't have published times for the Divisional Round, neither does NFL.com (that I could find). Haven't they played two Saturday (4 & 8 EST) and two Sunday (1 & 4 EST) games - with Denver not being in the right time zone for a 1 PM EST kickoff?
 
Third, the AFCCG starting at 1 MST means the fourth quarter is played in twilight. If it's 60 degrees at kickoff I'll be surprised. If it's not below 40 by the end of the game, I'll be really surprised. 
 

Dogman

Yukon Cornelius
Dope
Mar 19, 2004
14,586
Missoula, MT
soxfan121 said:
 
First, a 16-0 team isn't playing in a Wild Card round game. 
 
Second, got a link? FOX & CBS don't have published times for the Divisional Round, neither does NFL.com (that I could find). Haven't they played two Saturday (4 & 8 EST) and two Sunday (1 & 4 EST) games - with Denver not being in the right time zone for a 1 PM EST kickoff?
 
Third, the AFCCG starting at 1 MST means the fourth quarter is played in twilight. If it's 60 degrees at kickoff I'll be surprised. If it's not below 40 by the end of the game, I'll be really surprised. 
 That's not what you said.  You said "There aren't any 1 PM games in the playoffs" which is wrong. 
 
Ditto on your second sentence, it's wrong.  You refute your own first point by writing there are 1 PM games in playoffs.
 
As far as your 3rd sentence, sounds like you have no clue about MST weather in January.
 

Stitch01

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
18,155
Boston
soxfan121 said:
 
First, a 16-0 team isn't playing in a Wild Card round game. 
 
Second, got a link? FOX & CBS don't have published times for the Divisional Round, neither does NFL.com (that I could find). Haven't they played two Saturday (4 & 8 EST) and two Sunday (1 & 4 EST) games - with Denver not being in the right time zone for a 1 PM EST kickoff?
 
Third, the AFCCG starting at 1 MST means the fourth quarter is played in twilight. If it's 60 degrees at kickoff I'll be surprised. If it's not below 40 by the end of the game, I'll be really surprised. 
 
Im not making a statement about your thesis (although I dont think Denver is 16-0 just yet! :) ), Im just correcting a factual inaccuracy. 
 
Id agree, Denver is most likely a late kickoff in the divisional round although its TV dependent.  I believe the AFC will have the Saturday night game this year, so the AFC Sunday game will be a 1 PM kickoff.   There are definitely two 1 PM EST playoff games starts though (They used to be 1230 and 400 IIRC)
 
Title games have started at 3 and 630 in recent years and the starts alternate by conference each year because of TV (late game is more desirable, so they switch off)  This year the AFC should start at 3.  I havent read of any changes and I dont think any TV contracts changed this year, so Id expect that's the case for 2014.
 
Not trying to derail the thread or anything, just adding facts.
 
EDIT: added sentence about the divisional night games kickoff.
 

Tony C

Dope
Dope
Apr 13, 2000
13,445
tims4wins said:
 
Last year's playoff game vs. Baltimore was on a FRIGID day - the high was like 14 degrees. It was a 2:30 MT kickoff, so the 2nd half was basically played in the dark. Manning played pretty well in that game, from both memory and stats (28-43, 290, 3 TDs, 2 INT).
 
He got progressively worse as the game went on, and clearly by the end could get nothing on the ball. His final key INT was all on him.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
21,642
Philadelphia
tims4wins said:
 
That hurts and they really have no depth.
 
Chris Clark is a 29-year-old veteran who has never played more than 27 snaps in an NFL game.  They will also apparently pick Winston Justice off the scrap heap, but he's a career-long RT who has been dumped by both Philly and Indy in the last two years, not exactly two teams with a surplus of OL talent, and hasn't caught on elsewhere this offseason.  If they want to try out Justice, then I imagine they are planning to move current RT Franklin to LT.  He has graded out highly as a pass protector at RT the last couple years but he has never played on the left side in the pros.
 

Shelterdog

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2002
15,155
New York City
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
 
That hurts and they really have no depth.
 
Chris Clark is a 29-year-old veteran who has never played more than 27 snaps in an NFL game.  They will also apparently pick Winston Justice off the scrap heap, but he's a career-long RT who has been dumped by both Philly and Indy in the last two years, not exactly two teams with a surplus of OL talent, and hasn't caught on elsewhere this offseason.  If they want to try out Justice, then I imagine they are planning to move current RT Franklin to LT.  He has graded out highly as a pass protector at RT the last couple years but he has never played on the left side in the pros.
 
This is going to be a huge deal but it will be really hard to pick up because Peyton is too damn smart and quick to just start getting sacked.  I'll bet he starts going downfield a lot less frequently.
 

dbn

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 10, 2007
7,785
La Mancha.
Shelterdog said:
 
This is going to be a huge deal but it will be really hard to pick up because Peyton is too damn smart and quick to just start getting sacked.  I'll bet he starts going downfield a lot less frequently.
 
If he only had a dependable possession receiver...
 

Stitch01

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
18,155
Boston
Welker is playing fewer snaps than I would have expected.  Only 59 of 74 snaps game 1 and 49 of 76 game two, basically like the Pats used him in the Titans game before Hernandez went down.
 
Edited brainfart
 

MarcSullivaFan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 21, 2005
3,412
Hoo-hoo-hoo hoosier land.
Shelterdog said:
 
This is going to be a huge deal but it will be really hard to pick up because Peyton is too damn smart and quick to just start getting sacked.  I'll bet he starts going downfield a lot less frequently.
Agreed on all counts. In his last healthy season in Indy, when his line hit bottom, he averaged only 6.9 y/a, way below his career norm. Like the Broncos, that team struggled to run the ball.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
21,642
Philadelphia
Shelterdog said:
 
This is going to be a huge deal but it will be really hard to pick up because Peyton is too damn smart and quick to just start getting sacked.  I'll bet he starts going downfield a lot less frequently.
 
I agree completely.  As good as he is in the short game, this is the way to beat Peyton Manning - get pressure and make him quickly execute short passes over and over again.
 
Its also worth remembering that the Broncos are essentially starting their 3rd choice center, (The Other) Manny Ramirez, who got the job after Koppen went down for the year and after Ryan Lilja looked like crap in preseason.  In addition to the short depth at tackle, their interior OL backups are Chris Kuper (once a good player, but now old and has never really recovered from a gruesome ankle injury in 2011), Steve Vallo (definition of journeyman, cut by the Eagles, Jags, and Browns in recent years), and John Moffitt (2011 3rd rounder who the Seahawks essentially gave away for free this offseason).  Every team in the NFL is only a couple OL injuries away from huge problems but the Broncos look especially sensitive to any further injuries in that unit.
 

86spike

Currently enjoying "Arli$$"
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2002
25,082
Procrasti Nation
Losing Clady is just as bad for Denver as losing Pouncey was for The Steelers.
 
shit.
 
This is going to require the use of more TE and RB blockers on the left side which means fewer 3 WR sets.  I totally agree that this means far less time for Manning to let deep plays develop when they play a team with a talented pass rush. 
 
shit.
 

Shelterdog

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2002
15,155
New York City
86spike said:
Losing Clady is just as bad for Denver as losing Pouncey was for The Steelers.
 
shit.
 
This is going to require the use of more TE and RB blockers on the left side which means fewer 3 WR sets.  I totally agree that this means far less time for Manning to let deep plays develop when they play a team with a talented pass rush. 
 
shit.
 
I actually think they use more 3 WR sets--Welker is so damn good in the slot (and Manning is damn smart) that a short passing game is probably a better bet to beat pressure then keeping in extra blockers would be.
 
It does kill you on the deep routes.
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
28,451
I'm trying to be a good poster here, but...Let's just say that they're gonna have some problems with protection.
 

86spike

Currently enjoying "Arli$$"
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2002
25,082
Procrasti Nation
Ed Hillel said:
Winston Justice lol. RIP Peyton Manning's neck.
 
Justice was signed as a back up since our current back up, Chris Clark, will now start.  Clark actually played relatively well in Pre-season (Clady didn't play before week one) so at least he's got some recent work in the offense.
 
If Winston Justice plays that means Clark is out too and the line is fucked completely.
 
Both Zane Beadles and Chris Kuper (hopefully healthy in a few weeks) might be able to help out on the left side, but they're both too big to play tackle effectively against good rushers.  RT Orlando Franklin is really more of a brute strength smasher than an athletic and quick guy so I don't think he's a great idea to switch sides.
 
Chris Clark it is.  Next man up.
 
yikes.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
38,919
Here
Yeah, I can't say I know much of anything about Chris Clark, other than that he isn't Ryan Clady. What he does have in his favor is that he is not Winston Justice. I tried looking Clark up, but didn't find much other than that he started six games at TE in 2011, which I am assuming is some Tebow Time scheming. Looks like he's basically an unknown? Do you have any sort of scouting report on Clark, or is there just not enough playing time to make one? Was he playing with the first units in preseason at all?

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be a douche about the injury, my reaction was more to Winston Justice. You'd probably be better off bringing back Tebow to play LT than starting him.
 

86spike

Currently enjoying "Arli$$"
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2002
25,082
Procrasti Nation
Ed Hillel said:
Yeah, I can't say I know much of anything about Chris Clark, other than that he isn't Ryan Clady. What he does have in his favor is that he is not Winston Justice. I tried looking Clark up, but didn't find much other than that he started six games at TE in 2011, which I am assuming is some Tebow Time scheming. Looks like he's basically an unknown? Do you have any sort of scouting report on Clark, or is there just not enough playing time to make one? Was he playing with the first units in preseason at all?

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be a douche about the injury, my reaction was more to Winston Justice. You'd probably be better off bringing back Tebow to play LT than starting him.
 
Clark was undrafted, spent two years on Minnesota's practice squad and then 3 seasons on Denver's bench.  There's not much to report on him since he's played very little (Clady never missed a game in his career).  He did play with the starters the entire preseason (Clady was recuperating from shoulder surgery and dealing with contract negotiations and sat out the entire PS) and reports are that he played OK.  That said, he's a bench guy for a reason.  I expect he's going to get prison-raped by Demarcus Ware when we play Dallas and he's going to get flagged for holding a ton.  IMO, Clark's ceiling is 'sufficient'.  I hope he reaches it because his floor is scary.
 

coremiller

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
5,715
MarcSullivaFan said:
Agreed on all counts. In his last healthy season in Indy, when his line hit bottom, he averaged only 6.9 y/a, way below his career norm. Like the Broncos, that team struggled to run the ball.
 
This year's Bronco team is much more talented at the skill positions.  Manning dragged that 2010 Colts team to 10 wins kicking and screaming.  Reggie Wayne was the only good receiver; Garcon, the #2, had 68 catches for 784 yards, and no running back topped 500 yards rushing.  We saw what happened to that Colts team the next year without Manning.
 

MarcSullivaFan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 21, 2005
3,412
Hoo-hoo-hoo hoosier land.
coremiller said:
 
This year's Bronco team is much more talented at the skill positions.  Manning dragged that 2010 Colts team to 10 wins kicking and screaming.  Reggie Wayne was the only good receiver; Garcon, the #2, had 68 catches for 784 yards, and no running back topped 500 yards rushing.  We saw what happened to that Colts team the next year without Manning.
The point was that his line sucked and he had to get rid of the ball more quickly, hence a low y/p/a.

Garçon and Tamme (and Collie when he was healthy) were a pretty good supporting cast behind Wayne who had perhaps the best year of his career. The skill players weren't as good as previous Colts teams, but the line was the main problem.
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
Staff member
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
8,531
KPWT
They will probably only have to throw the ball for about the first 40 minutes, but going up against Lamarr Houston should be a good test for Carr. Houston is in a contract year and has been fairly beastly the first two weeks, he's third in the NFL in pressures so far and has a sack and several QB hits to show for his effort. Add to that the fact that Raiders defensive coordinator Jason Tarver has been blitzing like a crazy person and the Denver line should get a good work out.


Denver should still win by 10+ and maybe even 20+ if Pryor goes in a turnover binge, but we will see if the LT injury is going to be a significant problem or something that Peyton and scheme can mask on Monday night.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

Book Jailer
Dope
May 20, 2003
34,036
Deep inside Muppet Labs
Stitch01 said:
Welker is playing fewer snaps than I would have expected.  Only 59 of 74 snaps game 1 and 49 of 76 game two, basically like the Pats used him in the Titans game before Hernandez went down.
 
Edited brainfart
 
 
Of course the Pats' use of him as such caused a huge shitstorm from both Welker and the media. The Broncos (wisely) cut his snaps back a bit to keep him fresh and we hear...nothing.
 

Shelterdog

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2002
15,155
New York City
86spike said:
 
Clark was undrafted, spent two years on Minnesota's practice squad and then 3 seasons on Denver's bench.  There's not much to report on him since he's played very little (Clady never missed a game in his career).  He did play with the starters the entire preseason (Clady was recuperating from shoulder surgery and dealing with contract negotiations and sat out the entire PS) and reports are that he played OK.  That said, he's a bench guy for a reason.  I expect he's going to get prison-raped by Demarcus Ware when we play Dallas and he's going to get flagged for holding a ton.  IMO, Clark's ceiling is 'sufficient'.  I hope he reaches it because his floor is scary.
 
I think Clark will seem fine--they'll slide the guard over a lot--but all of the sudden there's going to be random pressure up the middle because the left guard is helping Clark and the Center and RG are going to be handle DTs one on one instead of being in three on two situations like they usually were with Clady at LT.  So Demarcus Ware won't have a big day but a Jason Hatcher is going to randomly get a ton of pressure.
 

Stitch01

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
18,155
Boston
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
 
 
Of course the Pats' use of him as such caused a huge shitstorm from both Welker and the media. The Broncos (wisely) cut his snaps back a bit to keep him fresh and we hear...nothing.
 
I found that amusing as well.
 
I imagine with Clady down he plays more.
 

lithos2003

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
361
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
 
 
Of course the Pats' use of him as such caused a huge shitstorm from both Welker and the media. The Broncos (wisely) cut his snaps back a bit to keep him fresh and we hear...nothing.
 
I thought for sure that back when this all happened last year, Welker was interviewed and he commented that he'd like to be involved in the offense more, or something along those lines, which gave legs to the rumors... but I can't seem to find anything about it now so maybe I'm imagining things.
 

Stitch01

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
18,155
Boston
lithos2003 said:
 
I thought for sure that back when this all happened last year, Welker was interviewed and he commented that he'd like to be involved in the offense more, or something along those lines, which gave legs to the rumors... but I can't seem to find anything about it now so maybe I'm imagining things.
Probably thinking of this (Sorry, I wont sidetrack Broncos discussions after this)
 
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/08/welker-jokes-abou-13-catches-nice-to-stick-it-in-bills-face/
 

86spike

Currently enjoying "Arli$$"
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2002
25,082
Procrasti Nation
Shelterdog said:
 
I think Clark will seem fine--they'll slide the guard over a lot--but all of the sudden there's going to be random pressure up the middle because the left guard is helping Clark and the Center and RG are going to be handle DTs one on one instead of being in three on two situations like they usually were with Clady at LT.  So Demarcus Ware won't have a big day but a Jason Hatcher is going to randomly get a ton of pressure.
 
Good points.  O-Lines really do work as one extended unit and weaknesses at one point can create problems in others.
 
Clady is so valuable because he almost never needs any help to neutralize his assignment which lets the other 4 guys double when and where needed.  Orlando Franklin out of the RT spot will now likely be required to single-team guys much more.  He may very well be up to it.  He's a monster when he is on (second year, hopefully he'll be "on" more than last year).
 

Super Nomario

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2000
13,886
Mansfield MA
Shelterdog said:
 
I think Clark will seem fine--they'll slide the guard over a lot--but all of the sudden there's going to be random pressure up the middle because the left guard is helping Clark and the Center and RG are going to be handle DTs one on one instead of being in three on two situations like they usually were with Clady at LT.  So Demarcus Ware won't have a big day but a Jason Hatcher is going to randomly get a ton of pressure. 
There will be some of that, but there's a limit. If the D lines up someone wide-9 on Clark's side, the Broncos can't help him from the interior. As Greg Cosell likes to say, sooner or later your players have to be able to win one-on-one matchups; you can only protect them so much. I think Manning makes up for a lot of faults, though.