(2) New York Knicks vs (6) Indiana Pacers - 2024 EC Second Round

[InstaFace]

A real contrast in styles.

Series Preview by SN here. NY Post has a saucier one up here, looking back at the Reggie Miller - John Starks days. Indy Star covers the same thing from their angle (N.B. it's not by Gregg Doyel).

Schedule known so far:

Date Game Time (ET) TV channel
Game 1 - Monday May 6 at Knicks 7:30 p.m. TNT, Sling
Game 2 - Wednesday May 8 at Knicks 8 p.m. TNT, Sling
Game 3 - Friday May 10 at Pacers 7 p.m. ESPN, Sling
Game 4 - Sunday May 12 at Pacers 3:30 p.m. ABC, Sling
TBD Game 5 at Knicks* TBD TBD
TBD Game 6 at Pacers* TBD TBD
TBD Game 7 at Knicks* TBD TBD

Odds (DraftKings): NYK -225, IND +190 (implied: 66% Knicks)

Knicks Fan live preview / call-in show (best available video):

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBnGy6UgGcY

 

[lovegtm]

I'll say Pacers in 6. Knicks are just down to too few bodies, and Indiana is going to generate too many 3s and hit too many of them in too many games.

 

[riboflav]

The Knicks are impressive. They get the most out of their talent and I've always thought that Tom is one of the best NBA coaches for defensive schemes and imparting toughness on his team. I gave Tom almost equal credit to Doc in the PP/KG/RA title run. But, this series being a forgone conclusion that the Pacers are climbing up hills.. well, that I don't get. Rick is no joke. And, his team is deeper. I think ultimately the Knicks pull it out but bc of their lack of depth the series will go a game longer than it should. Knicks should win in 6 but it will take game 7. Then, onto to ECF. Hopefully, against the Cs. Spike, the Gardens, the history. It's been a long, long time since they played a series that would mean this much.

 

[riboflav]

Given that the Knicks struggle to score and that Brunson is a premiere scorer, does Rick have the personnel to stymie him and make the others beat his team?

 

[jon abbey]

There are a lot of interesting connections, Carlisle coached Brunson just 3 years ago in Dallas and only played him 10 minutes in a game 7 loss.

 

[riboflav]

There are a lot of interesting connections, Carlisle coached Brunson just 3 years ago in Dallas and only played him 10 minutes in a game 7 loss.

It always floors me to be reminded that he was once on the Mavs and an afterthought. There will no doubt be some added motivation for him, and Rick knows it. How much Cuban screwed up what could've been by going all in on Luka is another discussion for another time.

 

[m0ckduck]

This feels like an old-school 1980's 2-2-1-1-1 series, where each team enjoys a big HCA and struggles on the other team's floor.

I don't think Indy is ready to take this series. They've been very trick-or-treat already, losing twice solidly to a team with PatBev and Malik Beasley logging 60-70 mpg. The Knicks play hard every game, and their consistency will wear out the Pacers. If NY was less run down, I'd pick them to steal a game in Indy and then close it out in 5. As it stands, I expect it go 7 but be one of those series where the outcome never feels truly in doubt for New York.

 

[lars10]

Feel like this series is hard to judge.. but NY struggled against a team with basically two players. The scoring is a lot deeper for Indy.. if ny shoots like they did tonite they’d lose by ten to Indy..a lot depends on which Halliburton shows up.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

This series is giving me 2017 Cs v “cards vibes as Brunson is playing a lot like IT4.

Maybe Carlisle knows something about Brunson to slow him down. The coach on Lowe’s podcast thinks Nembhard could be in consideration for all-Defense teams sometime soon; we’re going to see in this series whether he has a shot. From what I saw, he played pretty good point-of-attack defense on Dame.

 

[Murderer's Crow]

The Pacers have no defense. I think the players who struggled to score and pass against the sixers will be a huge threat against indy. Donte and Hart can shoot and if Anunoby and Hartenstein can continue to provide a few buckets per game, I have no concern for this series at all.

 

[Ed Hillel]

I think this is Knicks in 5. Indy's defense is horrible, Haliburton is banged up, and outside of Siakam and Nesmith it's a pretty soft team. Knicks are most vulnerable in Game 1, but I think they'll win it and coast to a pretty easy series.

 

[Euclis20]

Unless Haliburton magically regains his pre-injury form, I can't see how this even gets to 6. He was really terrible in round 1 against some mediocre to awful defenders. I'll still enjoy the contrast in styles, and both teams can take a breath knowing that they survived R1 despite some massive disasters.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

NYK had a 116.9 DRtg versus a PHI team that basically had only a hobbled Embiid and Maxey as creators. IND's offense is way better than PHI.

IND's defense was horrible until they got Siakam and got a little better in the second half. Hard to know how good or not good IND's defense was against MIL missing players but just for reference, IND's DRtg was 116.8, between NYK and PHI (116.7).

Any team can stay with NYK - they just have to figure out how to slow down Brunson a bit and hit some 3Ps. Apparently, IND hit MIL with full-court pressure on every possession that wasn't a fast break. I'd expect them to do the same with NYK and see if their 7-man rotation can handle it.

 

[nattysez]

Those who are taking the Pacers lightly are forgetting that this will be an Obi Toppin revenge series.

Any team can stay with NYK - they just have to figure out how to slow down Brunson a bit and hit some 3Ps. Apparently, IND hit MIL with full-court pressure on every possession that wasn't a fast break. I'd expect them to do the same with NYK and see if their 7-man rotation can handle it.

I think trying to run the Knicks out of the gym at both ends is probably the Pacers' best strategy. Very curious to see how that works out.

 

[lovegtm]

I enjoy watching the Knicks, and I think they're a good team when healthy.....but they're not healthy. Brunson is their only player who can create any offense, and you can overload to shut him down, particularly if your team has human players who can run and jump (Joel Embiid was only marginally in this category).

I also think people are overrating the Knicks' defense--it wasn't good against Philly (as WBCD mentioned), and Embiid was a shell of himself offensively. No explosion, so they could really sit on the stepback jumper and get into him. Without him at 100%, Philly is just a straight-up bad team. We saw that in the regular season, and we saw that in the playoffs.

Not having Randle or Bogdanovic is just going to be too much to overcome at the end of the day imo. Brunson also isn't getting any less worn-down by having to carry everything every night.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I enjoy watching the Knicks, and I think they're a good team when healthy.....but they're not healthy. Brunson is their only player who can create any offense, and you can overload to shut him down, particularly if your team has human players who can run and jump (Joel Embiid was only marginally in this category).

I also think people are overrating the Knicks' defense--it wasn't good against Philly (as WBCD mentioned), and Embiid was a shell of himself offensively. No explosion, so they could really sit on the stepback jumper and get into him. Without him at 100%, Philly is just a straight-up bad team. We saw that in the regular season, and we saw that in the playoffs.

Not having Randle or Bogdanovic is just going to be too much to overcome at the end of the day imo. Brunson also isn't getting any less worn-down by having to carry everything every night.

I think they’ll have enough to beat Indiana but it’ll be a big struggle to advance beyond ECF, if Boston is there. And then beating Den/Min/OKC feels like a tall ask as well.

I think the comparisons to the 2017 IT Celtics is a pretty good one with Brunson playing the IT role (albeit with a higher ceiling).

 

[Euclis20]

I enjoy watching the Knicks, and I think they're a good team when healthy.....but they're not healthy. Brunson is their only player who can create any offense, and you can overload to shut him down, particularly if your team has human players who can run and jump (Joel Embiid was only marginally in this category).

I also think people are overrating the Knicks' defense--it wasn't good against Philly (as WBCD mentioned), and Embiid was a shell of himself offensively. No explosion, so they could really sit on the stepback jumper and get into him. Without him at 100%, Philly is just a straight-up bad team. We saw that in the regular season, and we saw that in the playoffs.

Not having Randle or Bogdanovic is just going to be too much to overcome at the end of the day imo. Brunson also isn't getting any less worn-down by having to carry everything every night.

The boldest just isn't supported by evidence. They were bad when he was injured and unavailable, but they closed the regular season with 9 straight wins (including the play in), which coincided pretty nicely with his return (even if he didn't play in all of those games). Even if they weren't the 55+ win team they appeared to be earlier in the year, they weren't a pushover even with Embiid at less than full strength.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

The boldest just isn't supported by evidence. They were bad when he was injured and unavailable, but they closed the regular season with 9 straight wins (including the play in), which coincided pretty nicely with his return (even if he didn't play in all of those games). Even if they weren't the 55+ win team they appeared to be earlier in the year, they weren't a pushover even with Embiid at less than full strength.

PHI actually only went 6-0 with Embiid: OKC (without SGA); MIA; MEM; DET; ORL; and MIA in the play-in game

Of the 9 game winning streak, Embiid sat the other three games: TOR, SAS, and BRK.

I'd probably agree that PHI with a limited Embiid isn't a good team.

 

[Euclis20]

PHI actually only went 6-0 with Embiid: OKC (without SGA); MIA; MEM; DET; ORL; and MIA in the play-in game

Of the 9 game winning streak, Embiid sat the other three games: TOR, SAS, and BRK.

I'd probably agree that PHI with a limited Embiid isn't a good team.

All true, and then they played a series with the Knicks (who I think we'd all agree are a good team, if flawed) essentially dead even. Splitting hairs at this point, but the post I responded to called them a "straight up bad team" with Embiid at less than 100%, and that's just not been the case (unless there are 20+ bad teams in the NBA).

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

All true, and then they played a series with the Knicks (who I think we'd all agree are a good team, if flawed) essentially dead even. Splitting hairs at this point, but the post I responded to called them a "straight up bad team" with Embiid at less than 100%, and that's just not been the case (unless there are 20+ bad teams in the NBA).

In context, I thought he meant "straight up bad team" compared to other playoff teams but I think we can all agree that PHI with a hobbled Embiid probably isn't to the level of TOR, DET, MEM, etc.

I was thinking somewhere between the 60+-win team they were when Embiid was healthy and the 30-ish win team they were when he was out.

 

[jon abbey]

It doesn't matter much at this point but Embiid put up massive numbers in that series despite having obvious knee issues and disappearing in most 4th quarters. He also seemed to influence/intimidate a lot of shots in the paint, I am not going to miss facing him.

 

[Murderer's Crow]

It doesn't matter much at this point but Embiid put up massive numbers in that series despite having obvious knee issues and disappearing in most 4th quarters. He also seemed to influence/intimidate a lot of shots in the paint, I am not going to miss facing him.

Same. People are suddenly discounting the win here vs the sixers when Embiid played like a beast for the majority of the series and even when he wasn't scoring, his presence dictated the entire defensive and offensive schemes. He's just so godamn big that he didn't need his jump to make his shots and make defensive plays. The amount of free throws that man gets per game is ridiculous.

 

[kfoss99]

Same. People are suddenly discounting the win here vs the sixers when Embiid played like a beast for the majority of the series and even when he wasn't scoring, his presence dictated the entire defensive and offensive schemes. He's just so godamn big that he didn't need his jump to make his shots and make defensive plays. The amount of free throws that man gets per game is ridiculous.

If he's going to shoot 13 of 13 from the line, do you just give him his mid-range jumper?

He shot .883 from the line in the regular season! My quick math has him shooting .541 from 2-point land in the regular season. Even if open or semi-open looks brings that up, I doubt it reaches to 88%.

 

[TomRicardo]

There are a lot of interesting connections, Carlisle coached Brunson just 3 years ago in Dallas and only played him 10 minutes in a game 7 loss.

The word is they don't like each other very much.

 

[Euclis20]

In context, I thought he meant "straight up bad team" compared to other playoff teams but I think we can all agree that PHI with a hobbled Embiid probably isn't to the level of TOR, DET, MEM, etc.

I was thinking somewhere between the 60+-win team they were when Embiid was healthy and the 30-ish win team they were when he was out.

Sure, but that's literally the entire playoff field outside of Boston. I see them still winning 50 games (give or take) with this version of Embiid, and he's clearly capable of monster numbers and Maxey can be a stone cold killer. That's not a bad team, no matter how it's defined.

Same. People are suddenly discounting the win here vs the sixers when Embiid played like a beast for the majority of the series and even when he wasn't scoring, his presence dictated the entire defensive and offensive schemes. He's just so godamn big that he didn't need his jump to make his shots and make defensive plays. The amount of free throws that man gets per game is ridiculous.

I won't discount it, not one bit. The Knicks earned this, just as about every team that has beaten Philly in the playoffs has earned it.

Nearly every single year, there's a legitimately good excuse for why Embiid couldn't advance. He's got some more really good reasons right now (he was clearly hurt, and the team was great when he was on the floor). Still, at the end of the day no one cares why the reigning league MVP couldn't even get to the final four in his 20s. Maybe his 30s will be kinder.

 

[jon abbey]

One thing I find fascinating about this year's Knicks is how they always keep fighting, more than any NBA team I have seen for a while. They were 38-0 this year in games they led by 15 points at any point in the game (this perfect record was in serious danger last night) and while they ended up 2nd in the conference, they did not occupy 2nd place for a single moment all season until the final buzzer of game #82 (which they won by 1 in OT to jump up to 2nd). I don't know how long they can keep this going with a short rotation, but it's a fun team to root for.

 

[lovegtm]

I can revise it to be weaker than "straight up bad."

I still don't think that this version of the Sixers with this version of Embiid is a particularly good team.

The Knicks are fun though, and they execute really well despite their limitations. I wish them well.

 

[jon abbey]

The schedule for this series is now finalized and there is an extra day between games 5 and 6, presumably to avoid conflict with Caitlin Clark’s home debut.

 

[jon abbey]

Thibs is a hilarious lunatic.

View: https://twitter.com/FredKatz/status/1786829750142402585

 

[jon abbey]

View: https://twitter.com/knicksmuse/status/1787570922800726085?s=46&t=0GHHaPVUX26Io0V2HIcS0g

 

[lovegtm]

Getting worked up over 3-6 is really taking ref conspiracy stuff to new levels lol

 

[Murderer's Crow]

Getting worked up over 3-6 is really taking ref conspiracy stuff to new levels lol

Well, you rather have that in your favor than against.

 

[bankshot1]

Let's Go Hoosiers

 

[lovegtm]

Man, post-injury Halliburton is not good. Can't create advantages against anybody.

 

[the moops]

Man, post-injury Halliburton is not good. Can't create advantages against anybody.

It's looks he can at times, but is reluctant to take that step back three

 

[lars10]

Just a question.. I thought the offensive player wasn't allowed to jump into a defender that was in the air? Isn't that supposed to be an offensive foul?

 

[lars10]

Both of these teams are leaving shooters wide open.. and neither is really taking advantage until that spurt by Hart

 

[dhellers]

not clear why my dislike for NYK increases with every game. Is it because of their fans, or fear they may be real good (and have managed to escape the Thib's curse of overwork)?

 

[SteveF]

I'm waiting to see what the Knicks' jump shots look like in the last 6 minutes of the game if Indiana keeps the pace high.

 

[OnWisc]

These playoffs I keep wondering why there’s no sound, and then I remember that I muted the Google/Wing Stop ad.

 

[JCizzle]

Man, post-injury Halliburton is not good. Can't create advantages against anybody.

I found myself wondering how far down the roster I'd go before I'd make a player-for-player swap for him to be on the Celtics. Hopefully he recovers, but this version is kinda rough.

 

[OnWisc]

That was almost a beautiful possession for Indiana.

 

[lars10]

not clear why my dislike for NYK increases with every game. Is it because of their fans, or fear they may be real good (and have managed to escape the Thib's curse of overwork)?

If the Celts get to the ECF with the Knicks.. I suspect they're going to run the crap out of them. Also, will be interesting to see how they play Brunson.. because I just don't think the rest of the Knicks are good enough to beat the Celts or even Indiana really.

 

[lars10]

I found myself wondering how far down the roster I'd go before I'd make a player-for-player swap for him to be on the Celtics. Hopefully he recovers, but this version is kinda rough.

He looks like an entirely different, timid player.

 

[dhellers]

These playoffs I keep wondering why there’s no sound, and then I remember that I muted the Google/Wing Stop ad.

Amen

 

[OnTheBlack]

The Celtics would wax both these teams

 

[dhellers]

Can PP become, or surpass, TJ Mcconnell?

 

[lovegtm]

Can PP become, or surpass, TJ Mcconnell?

Yes, because he is a much, much better shooter.

 

[lovegtm]

It's crazy to compare this game to Minnesota-Denver. Massive gap in quality of play.

 

[dhellers]

Yes, because he is a much, much better shooter.

I just saw evidende of that! But he seems to be slowing Brunson down