16 Days in January—Determining Trade Deadline Activity

[lexrageorge]

They were willing to blow up the 2013 KG/Pierce team, which would have had about as much a shot at the playoffs as this year's team.

But that team had no long term future, as KG & Pierce were rapidly declining assets. Wait a season, and the return would have been a lot less.

The Celtics have the opposite problem in that they have two appreciating assets that they are trying to build around. Tanking could set the team back longer than just this season, and those appreciating assets may feel a lot less appreciated if the rebuild takes longer than expected. And I don't see Wyc parting with either of those 2 assets to begin a decade long rebuild either.

An injury to a key player obviously changes the equation, but otherwise I'm not sure I see Wyc giving Stevens the green light to go strict sell mode barring some unexpectedly lucrative trade offer.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

They were willing to blow up the 2013 KG/Pierce team, which would have had about as much a shot at the playoffs as this year's team.

They blew up the Toine/PP Celtics too, didn't they?

 

[Euclis20]

They were willing to blow up the 2013 KG/Pierce team, which would have had about as much a shot at the playoffs as this year's team.

The best players on that 2013 team would have been 27, 36 and 37. The best players on the current team are 23, 25 and 24/27 (Smart/TL). Even if it doesn't feel like it, there's value in being a 7/8 seed (or in the play-in games) that didn't exist back then.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

But that team had no long term future, as KG & Pierce were rapidly declining assets. Wait a season, and the return would have been a lot less.

The Celtics have the opposite problem in that they have two appreciating assets that they are trying to build around. Tanking could set the team back longer than just this season, and those appreciating assets may feel a lot less appreciated if the rebuild takes longer than expected. And I don't see Wyc parting with either of those 2 assets to begin a decade long rebuild either.

An injury to a key player obviously changes the equation, but otherwise I'm not sure I see Wyc giving Stevens the green light to go strict sell mode barring some unexpectedly lucrative trade offer.

Team may have to take 1 step back to take two steps forward. An injury would definitely make it easier, especially a non serious one a week before the deadline.

 

[radsoxfan]

It's going to be hard to tank with Tatum, Jaylen, and to a lesser degree Timelord unless you essentially don't let them play. Tricky situation but unless ownership, GM, coach, and players are all on board, I'm not sure tanking is really that feasible. Asking players to play poorly isn't an option and Tatum and Brown both want to do their best when they are out there.

I'm not sure there is a great solution here as the team clearly isn't a contender but is also unlikely to be bad enough the rest of the way for a great pick. Tough spot for Brad, but hopefully this offseason he is able to really make his stamp on the team.

Unfortunately, it's probably 50/50 if he even wants to stay in his current role after the season. Still seems likely he would jump back into coaching for the right job, I don't think he's done on that side of things and I doubt this season has been particularly fun for him.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

I get it that the Jays are young and stars and all that, but the team has been below .500 for a couple years now….lots of mediocre teams get broken up all the time. Maybe this is similar to the PP/Toine team, good luck in finding a KG and Allen with the assets the team has. Does Brad have any GM buddies looking to do him a solid?

Busting up this team seems inevitable. They don’t have enough talent to content and there’s no viable path to getting there while Tatum and Brown are under contract.

(And is it really unfortunate if Brad leaves? I think the organization needs a new voice, an outsider to make an honest assessment of where this organization is).

 

[Cesar Crespo]

There's also the very real possibility the C's are the 10 seed and lose the play in game.

That would place them in the lottery, possibly as high as 11th, though probably 13th or 14th.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

The best players on that 2013 team would have been 27, 36 and 37. The best players on the current team are 23, 25 and 24/27 (Smart/TL). Even if it doesn't feel like it, there's value in being a 7/8 seed (or in the play-in games) that didn't exist back then.

The worst thing to do with this team would be to blow it up in a fit of pique.

They have valuable pieces and enough young bodies on cheap contracts as well as draft capital to make additive moves.

Blow.it.all.up may sound great on paper but unless there is a sound plan in place on the follow its almost certainly a path to more mediocrity. Maybe some people like complaining about the team but that just sounds awful to me, even if it provides us with more message boarding material. Maybe Brad Stevens and his staff can't fix this roster but it seems doable, even with their cap limitations.

 

[lexrageorge]

I get it that the Jays are young and stars and all that, but the team has been below .500 for a couple years now….lots of mediocre teams get broken up all the time. Maybe this is similar to the PP/Toine team, good luck in finding a KG and Allen with the assets the team has. Does Brad have any GM buddies looking to do him a solid?

Busting up this team seems inevitable. They don’t have enough talent to content and there’s no viable path to getting there while Tatum and Brown are under contract.

(And is it really unfortunate if Brad leaves? I think the organization needs a new voice, an outsider to make an honest assessment of where this organization is).

Stevens hasn't been the fault. He had to take the mess of a Kemba contract and work to try to free up some space while also acquiring some role players. Stevens going doesn't really move the needle for this team. In fact, it's clear that Stevens is looking at alternatives to the tired "run it back w/ Smart and the Jays" strategy.

I could see Stevens eventually moving on from Brown; it's just that it would be almost impossible to do that at the trade deadline.

Moving on from Tatum would require sign off from all levels of the organization, and I doubt very much Wyc wants to do that, as the team would be even more irrelevant than it is now for the next 10 or so years. And Wyc isn't getting any younger.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

There's blow it up and then there's everything but the Jays.

Any additive moves may not be a "blow it up" scenario but it will definitely be a "shake it up" scenario.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

I guess I’m trying to envision how this all ends - ultimately you have to figure out if a team built around Tatum and Brown is good enough to contend in the window in which they are signed; early returns aren’t looking great. So you can try to change everything around them - challenging given the payroll constraints, lack of assets and lack of you g player development. If that doesn’t work than you’ve got to think about rebuilding and converting you assets into something before losing them for nothing. Certainly they don’t have to consider that now but if the team is in the same situation a year from now, I think they will have to start considering a total tear down.

 

[moondog80]

I get it that the Jays are young and stars and all that, but the team has been below .500 for a couple years now

They are a game below .500 at the moment, the last time they finished below .500 was 2014-15.

I am frustrated too. But trading really good, really
young guys for players/picks that are highly unlikely to be as good seems like a bad idea. Bill James hit on this years ago — teams don’t get better by getting rid of their best players, they get better by improving on their worst ones.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

They are a game below .500 at the moment, the last time they finished below .500 was 2014-15.

I am frustrated too. But trading really good, really
young guys for players/picks that are highly unlikely to be as good seems like a bad idea. Bill James hit on this years ago — teams don’t get better by getting rid of their best players, they get better by improving on their worst ones.

36-36 last year, 1-4 in the playoffs. That puts the C’s at 60-64 over the past two years. Regardless of how we want to quantify .500, I think we can agree that the C’s have been a mediocre team since the Jays have been anointed as their stars and leaders. Isn’t there a risk of losing more good for great players for nothing in return (part of how the C’s are in this mess)?

If we think the Jays can be the best payers on a championship team and there’s a way to supplement that core- sure, go for it….but with the lack of tradeable assets and draft capital, I’m struggling to see how that happens. What’s the likely plan for this off-season?

 

[NomarsFool]

I'm not responding to anyone here, more just the occasional media narrative, but I think the idea that Tatum and Brown "can't play together" or are "redundant" seems quite silly to me. The only way I see that two players wouldn't be good fits for each other would be if you had two players that clogged the middle/paint, or if you had two players that were really ball dominant and each had to have the ball in their hands. That really is not the case with these two. The Celtics have two, good 2-day wings (Brown's team defense is by no means stellar, and he's not a lock down on-ball defender, either - but he can at least play defense) who are young and under contract. That's a great position to be in.

What the Celtics do not have is someone who really can run the offense and they don't have enough shooting. Part of the problem is Udoka's insistence on running Horford and Rob Williams out there at the same time, because no team is going to cover them beyond the arc. Rob doesn't take them, and let's be honest - Horford really can't hit them. It's obvious that every team is more than content to let Horford take as many 3s as he wants. I doubt anyone has covered him beyond the arc all season.

Who fits the mold of what the Celtics are looking for? Doesn't have to be a superstar, but we're still talking about somebody who's got to be in the top 50 players in the NBA. I'd be more than happy to see the Celtics trade some draft capital, one of GW, PP, AN, RL for that player.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Here's a Schroder target:
View: https://twitter.com/kpelton/status/1485023270336225282?s=20

Kevin Pelton: Updated my piece from earlier this week about Lonzo Ball's injury with the news that Bulls teammate Alex Caruso will also miss 6-8 weeks:

 

[moondog80]

People vastly overrate the chances of a Jaylen Brown trade ending up with a player better than Jaylen Brown. I’d rather have Jaylen Brown than 6 lottery protected first round picks.

 

[mcpickl]

I guess but that's a weird way to look at it to me. I guess you could say that they kept Waters over Strus as well. But every report at the time said that the final roster spot came down to Strus versus Green. Such as example 1 and example 2. They could have kept Strus and Tacko if they had cut Green but they didn't.

I'll also note that another reason the Cs gave Strus some $ is thst they'd keep his rights if Strus went overseas. But he didn't.

As long as the Jays are healthy, the Cs are not going to tank. First of all, you'd have to sit one or the other as even in this basically down year for both of them, they are good enough to pull off enough wins to prevent a true tank.

That being said, JB still doesn't look 100%. I wonder if JT also has some undisclosed injury he's trying to play through?

You could say it that way as well if you want, though Strus and Waters were both already signed to 2 way deals and Tacko was just on an exhibit 10 camp deal. But Waters over Strus is also a mistake if you prefer.

Your examples of Strus vs Green for the 15th spot are from after the Celtics converted his contract for his 2 way deal. He was then no longer eligible for the G League. What was Ainge going to say at that point? Hey, we signed Max but he's not competing for the 15th spot, and also not eligible for the G League? He knew he was getting cut when he signed the deal. Otherwise, why guarantee him any money when they didn't have to?

The Celtics had no rights to Strus after they waived him whether he went to Europe or not. The only thing giving him that money did was make him ineligible to play for the Celtics G league team.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

People vastly overrate the chances of a Jaylen Brown trade ending up with a player better than Jaylen Brown. I’d rather have Jaylen Brown than 6 lottery protected first round picks.

I don’t think it’s as simple as that. Brown makes a lot of money, there’s a cap, and he isn’t signed for that much longer. If you don’t think the team can be a legit contender in the time that you have him under contract, what then? C’s lost Irving and Hayward for nothing and it’s a big reason that they find themselves in their current situation.

If, as some suggest, the C’s can turn one of their draft picks and Nesmith or Langford into an impact player, I’m all for it. Just a bit skeptical of that being realistic.

 

[Jimbodandy]

People vastly overrate the chances of a Jaylen Brown trade ending up with a player better than Jaylen Brown. I’d rather have Jaylen Brown than 6 lottery protected first round picks.

There's some people that never liked Brown as the pick/rookie and will always see him in the worst possible light. Every time he has a bad game, it's vindication of their opinion 6 years ago.

Mostly it's just a frustration with the treading of water for years now. Team isn't going anywhere so lets either blow it up or trade Brown for the best thing that you can...because you can't trade Tatum.

When Rick Pitino fucked up this franchise in part due to his impatience, we mocked him for that impatience.

 

[mcpickl]

I don’t think it’s as simple as that. Brown makes a lot of money, there’s a cap, and he isn’t signed for that much longer. If you don’t think the team can be a legit contender in the time that you have him under contract, what then? C’s lost Irving and Hayward for nothing and it’s a big reason that they find themselves in their current situation.

Brown is eligible for an extension this offseason. My guess is the Celtics offer it, and he takes it.

If that doesn't happen, then you can't start sweating about Brown leaving.

Sweating that now seems awfully premature.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Brown is eligible for an extension this offseason. My guess is the Celtics offer it, and he takes it.

If that doesn't happen, then you can't start sweating about Brown leaving.

Sweating that now seems awfully premature.

People are sweating Tatum leaving already. It's ptsd.

 

[Auger34]

Stevens hasn't been the fault. He had to take the mess of a Kemba contract and work to try to free up some space while also acquiring some role players. Stevens going doesn't really move the needle for this team. In fact, it's clear that Stevens is looking at alternatives to the tired "run it back w/ Smart and the Jays" strategy.

I could see Stevens eventually moving on from Brown; it's just that it would be almost impossible to do that at the trade deadline.

Moving on from Tatum would require sign off from all levels of the organization, and I doubt very much Wyc wants to do that, as the team would be even more irrelevant than it is now for the next 10 or so years. And Wyc isn't getting any younger.

Maybe I am reading too much into this but I have no idea what you’re talking about.

Trading Brown is something simple that Brad can do but trading Tatum requires a full audit from the owners? I don’t know the inner workings of the basketball organization but I am almost positive that’s completely wrong. Owners are aware of all trades and I find it very hard to believe that the owners care that much more about Tatum than Brown.

I am also pretty sick of the narrative on this board that Tatum is such a superior asset to Brown. I have no idea why it’s continued through this season but I think there needs to be a recalibration. This line of thinking is also pretty consistent with all of Tatum’s shortcomings and failings this year being explained away with all sorts of excuses but Jaylen’s shortcomings being portrayed as something that can never possibly change. I don’t understand it and don’t think it’s fair or rooted in reality.

And I apologize for unloading this all on a reply to your post but it’s something that’s been going on here with multiple posters and I truly don’t get it

 

[Cesar Crespo]

anyone who knows anything knows Tatum is a far superior asset to Brown. Suggesting otherwise is comical. Maybe you are the one who needs the recalibration because you are far off.

Even with this year's performance. Suggesting Brown is near Tatum isn't rooted in reality.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Jaylen Brown is also at that age where he is what he is, minus incremental improvement. Unless he's an extreme outlier, anyway. Tatum has a year or two of growth left.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

I think there is this idea that the two Jays are super stars and the fact that the team has played <500 ball for the last 120+ games is primarily the fault of everyone else they play with. Maybe that’s true, but with limited assets to trade, how does this team get better? The current plan seems to hope the super stars get even better and the team lucks into some draft picks? Is that the plan, and is it even a plan at all? I don’t understand why folks are so resistant and repulsed by the idea of potentially busting up the core of a team that has accomplished nothing.

If and when the team decides to trade one or both of the Jays…it will be because they don’t really have any other options.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I think there is this idea that the two Jays are super stars and the fact that the team has played <500 ball for the last 120+ games is primarily the fault of everyone else they play with. Maybe that’s true, but with limited assets to trade, how does this team get better? The current plan seems to hope the super stars get even better and the team lucks into some draft picks? Is that the plan, and is it even a plan at all? I don’t understand why folks are so resistant and repulsed by the idea of potentially busting up the core of a team that has accomplished nothing.

If and when the team decides to trade one or both of the Jays…it will be because they don’t really have any other options.

Because they don't want to be the Orlando Magic.

Plus almost every teams path to get better is hoping their superstars/youth get better and they luck into some draft picks. Welcome to the NBA, where if you don't have a top 5-10 player, you are in purgatory.

Who are the C's going to get who is better than Jayson Tatum or Jaylen Brown? What is the plan there? To trade them for picks and young players? So you'd be hoping to get better with those young players getting better and getting lucky with some draft picks?

What is the plan if you trade the Jays if not "acquire picks and youth and hope to get lucky." Is that even a plan at all?

Like, you are against the current plan but your plan relies on luck even more.

 

[lexrageorge]

Maybe I am reading too much into this but I have no idea what you’re talking about.

Trading Brown is something simple that Brad can do but trading Tatum requires a full audit from the owners? I don’t know the inner workings of the basketball organization but I am almost positive that’s completely wrong. Owners are aware of all trades and I find it very hard to believe that the owners care that much more about Tatum than Brown.

I am also pretty sick of the narrative on this board that Tatum is such a superior asset to Brown. I have no idea why it’s continued through this season but I think there needs to be a recalibration. This line of thinking is also pretty consistent with all of Tatum’s shortcomings and failings this year being explained away with all sorts of excuses but Jaylen’s shortcomings being portrayed as something that can never possibly change. I don’t understand it and don’t think it’s fair or rooted in reality.

And I apologize for unloading this all on a reply to your post but it’s something that’s been going on here with multiple posters and I truly don’t get it

You're over-parsing the words in my post.

First, Tatum is regularly in the discussion as Top 15 player in the NBA, with the potential to be a Top 5-10 down the road [assuming, of course, he goes back to his career 39% 3 pt shooting]. Those aren't the type of players that get traded unless there is a looming free agency. Instead, those are the type of players you do everything you can to build around. A lot of the criticisms of Tatum are reminiscent of the ones that Paul Pierce received when he was here; good thing Ainge didn't listen.

Brown, OTOH, is probably a Top 30 player, but barely. Brown's absolute ceiling, based on what we know now, is probably Top 20-25. Now, obviously, you may not agree, and that's OK. All I'm doing is representing the consensus among media and folks that are in the NBA, which I tend to agree with.

Do I think a trade of Brown is likely? No, I do not, and it certainly would not happen at the this season's trade deadline. Stevens moves this summer were to try to get some room to get in a better supporting cast around Tatum and Brown this coming offseason, and I think that will be his primary strategy. However, and there is always a however when it comes to these things, Brown is also exactly the type of player (and contract) that would get a lot of interest around the league this summer, and it's not out of the realm of possibility that Stevens sees a path to upgrade the overall roster via a Brown trade. Not everyone will agree, and that's fine, but it remains a possibility. After all, the team has underperformed badly this year compared to expectations, and so Stevens may very well be turning over a lot of rocks.

Would Wyc need to sign off on a Brown trade? Yes, but he would do so with the understanding that Stevens is looking for a path to upgrade the roster. Chances this happen? I say 10%, which goes up to 20% if the team falls off the rails and misses the playoffs.

As for Tatum, there is no way to trade a Tatum without going into tank mode. It is highly unlikely the Celtics would get a Top 15 player in return, and any other trade is getting handful of nickels in return for sending out a Benjamin. Wyc would absolutely need to be convinced of the necessity before signing off on such a trade; the only way it would happen is if and when Tatum is nearing the end of his 2nd contract and his agent is making noise about leaving. And I don't see Wyc going into tank mode until that happens.

 

[nighthob]

Maybe I am reading too much into this but I have no idea what you’re talking about.

Trading Brown is something simple that Brad can do but trading Tatum requires a full audit from the owners? I don’t know the inner workings of the basketball organization but I am almost positive that’s completely wrong. Owners are aware of all trades and I find it very hard to believe that the owners care that much more about Tatum than Brown.

I am also pretty sick of the narrative on this board that Tatum is such a superior asset to Brown. I have no idea why it’s continued through this season but I think there needs to be a recalibration. This line of thinking is also pretty consistent with all of Tatum’s shortcomings and failings this year being explained away with all sorts of excuses but Jaylen’s shortcomings being portrayed as something that can never possibly change. I don’t understand it and don’t think it’s fair or rooted in reality.

And I apologize for unloading this all on a reply to your post but it’s something that’s been going on here with multiple posters and I truly don’t get it

As a trade asset Tatum is objectively superior due to having more years of control. As a team asset he's the better of the two players, even if just marginally, and 18 months younger to boot. Meaning there's a lot more room for growth in his game than the already 25 year old Brown. Now maybe Tatum Fultzes around with his jumper and suddenly goes bust on Boston. But it's the least likely result to his career.

 

[Auger34]

Would Wyc need to sign off on a Brown trade? Yes, but he would do so with the understanding that Stevens is looking for a path to upgrade the roster. Chances this happen? I say 10%, which goes up to 20% if the team falls off the rails and misses the playoffs.

As for Tatum, there is no way to trade a Tatum without going into tank mode. It is highly unlikely the Celtics would get a Top 15 player in return, and any other trade is getting handful of nickels in return for sending out a Benjamin. Wyc would absolutely need to be convinced of the necessity before signing off on such a trade; the only way it would happen is if and when Tatum is nearing the end of his 2nd contract and his agent is making noise about leaving. And I don't see Wyc going into tank mode until that happens.

Ok, I misunderstood your original post.
And in regards to what you are saying about assets (Tatum top 10-15, Brown around 30) is probably correct.

However, I still think you’re kind of looking at it in a backwards way. Isn’t it all about the return? I mean Wyc has to sign off no matter what but let’s say (and I know what I am proposing is ridiculous but still) Brad goes to ownership and says we have two offers that I really like, Jaylen to Atlanta straight up for Kevin Huerter or Tatum for Doncic and some 1sts I think Wyc would go for the Tatum trade

The overall point that Tatum is a better asset and therefore there are less options/players that make sense or return value in a trade I understand…and I could definitely be pedantic with what we are talking about but I don’t really get how Wyc factors into this or why he would only look at the name of the Celtic player and not the return

EDIT: I also want to make it clear I am pretty
Firmly against trading either Brown or Tatum (I think my post history back this up). I think there are incredibly few realistic trade offers for either of them (I think probably even less than the 10% number thrown out)

 

[Cesar Crespo]

If a top 10-15 player becomes available and wants to come to the C's, Jaylen would most likely be the guy going back and not Tatum.

That top 10-15 player probably demanded a trade and has Boston on their short list so even if they were worth Tatum, Tatum wouldn't be going back. I also think top players are more likely to want to play with Tatum than Brown but that's just a guess.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

You could say it that way as well if you want, though Strus and Waters were both already signed to 2 way deals and Tacko was just on an exhibit 10 camp deal. But Waters over Strus is also a mistake if you prefer.

Your examples of Strus vs Green for the 15th spot are from after the Celtics converted his contract for his 2 way deal. He was then no longer eligible for the G League. What was Ainge going to say at that point? Hey, we signed Max but he's not competing for the 15th spot, and also not eligible for the G League? He knew he was getting cut when he signed the deal. Otherwise, why guarantee him any money when they didn't have to?

The Celtics had no rights to Strus after they waived him whether he went to Europe or not. The only thing giving him that money did was make him ineligible to play for the Celtics G league team.

I'm sure Green was the favorite to stay with the Cs - since he wasn't eligible for G League either - but if it was a foregone conclusion that Strus was getting cut, they didn't tell Green as he was super happy when he made the team. I think there was a slight but real chance Strus could have leapfrogged Green but YMMV.

As for the rights issue, yes I realize Strus was ineligible to play for Maine but this Hardwood Houdini article mentioned that the Cs kept his rights. I'm not up on the intricacies of the various rights in the CBA but I assumed it meant that if Strus had not signed with another NBA team (i.e., gone to Europe), the Cs would have kept his rights. Maybe that's incorrect.

 

[j-man]

thanks for answer my q on a side note i wish the NBA would just go ahead would put the 12 teams in each conf

give seeds 1-4 a bye to 8 then here the fun part A best of 1 over 2 days between 5-12 6-11 7-10 and 8-9 this would increase more $ for the NBA give 2 days of march madness ex for nba only plom is this wouild have to be done sat-sun

Sat 230 est 5 30 est 8 15 est 10-30 est
sun noon est 3 pm est 6 30 est 9 pm est

 

[mcpickl]

I'm sure Green was the favorite to stay with the Cs - since he wasn't eligible for G League either - but if it was a foregone conclusion that Strus was getting cut, they didn't tell Green as he was super happy when he made the team. I think there was a slight but real chance Strus could have leapfrogged Green but YMMV.

As for the rights issue, yes I realize Strus was ineligible to play for Maine but this Hardwood Houdini article mentioned that the Cs kept his rights. I'm not up on the intricacies of the various rights in the CBA but I assumed it meant that if Strus had not signed with another NBA team (i.e., gone to Europe), the Cs would have kept his rights. Maybe that's incorrect.

I have no idea what Hardwood Houdini is, but no you don't get to keep the rights on a guy you waive.

And Strus was never leapfrogging Green. He got leapfrogged by Tacko. Again, if they felt Strus was a better option than literally any of Green, Waters or Tacko, they could've just kept him on the 2 way deal he that he had already signed and let any of those 3 guys go.

They felt those guys were better options than Strus. They missed. It happens.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Here's a Schroder target:
View: https://twitter.com/kpelton/status/1485023270336225282?s=20

Kevin Pelton: Updated my piece from earlier this week about Lonzo Ball's injury with the news that Bulls teammate Alex Caruso will also miss 6-8 weeks:

Chicago was one of the teams I had targeted who could be willing to move their pick in the 20’s for Schroder if they got hit hard with backcourt injuries.

Edit: Geezus, we are still talking about not keeping Strus? Whether we kept him or not is irrelevant as we could have signed him as a FA following his ACL surgery like every team had the opportunity to do. If anyones fan base should be upset it is the Bulls who let the hometown players contract expire after the injury without bringing him back.

 

[benhogan]

Chicago was one of the teams I had targeted who could be willing to move their pick in the 20’s for Schroder if they got hit hard with backcourt injuries.

Edit: Geezus, we are still talking about not keeping Strus? Whether we kept him or not is irrelevant as we could have signed him as a FA following his ACL surgery like every team had the opportunity to do. If anyones fan base should be upset it is the Bulls who let the hometown players contract expire after the injury without bringing him back.

Chicago has always been in play since Billy Donovan knows how to utilize Dennis

do they hang up if PBS offers Smart/DS for Lonzo?

 

[chilidawg]

Chicago has always been in play since Billy Donovan knows how to utilize Dennis

do they hang up if PBS offers Smart/DS for Lonzo?

Wow, that'd be a score. Can't imagine Chicago would do that.

 

[benhogan]

Wow, that'd be a score. Can't imagine Chicago would do that.

Yea, it's a pipe dream unless they've really liked Coby White's play.

CaruSHOW is huge there already

suddenly an embarrassment of riches in Chicago

 

[the moops]

do they hang up if PBS offers Smart/DS for Lonzo?

Yes. I can't think of any time when a free agent signed with a new team, performs as well as Lonzo has and the team is having huge success, and they turn around and trade him for two flawed players.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Chicago has always been in play since Billy Donovan knows how to utilize Dennis

do they hang up if PBS offers Smart/DS for Lonzo?

Immediately

 

[Pesky Pole]

Chicago has always been in play since Billy Donovan knows how to utilize Dennis

do they hang up if PBS offers Smart/DS for Lonzo?

You offer DS and a pick for Coby White or Ayo Dosunmo. And they still hang up.

 

[JakeRae]

Brown is eligible for an extension this offseason. My guess is the Celtics offer it, and he takes it.

If that doesn't happen, then you can't start sweating about Brown leaving.

Sweating that now seems awfully premature.

I’d be pretty surprised if Brown signed an extension. He’s a max player and an extension would lock him in to a sub max contract. His 24-25 starting salary would be maxed out around $34 million in an extension. The 7-9 max based on current projections would start around $41 million at that point. Hard to see him giving up that type of money, and that doesn’t account for the fact that I assume there’s a considerable ego component tied up in getting a max contract.

 

[JakeRae]

Maybe I am reading too much into this but I have no idea what you’re talking about.

Trading Brown is something simple that Brad can do but trading Tatum requires a full audit from the owners? I don’t know the inner workings of the basketball organization but I am almost positive that’s completely wrong. Owners are aware of all trades and I find it very hard to believe that the owners care that much more about Tatum than Brown.

I am also pretty sick of the narrative on this board that Tatum is such a superior asset to Brown. I have no idea why it’s continued through this season but I think there needs to be a recalibration. This line of thinking is also pretty consistent with all of Tatum’s shortcomings and failings this year being explained away with all sorts of excuses but Jaylen’s shortcomings being portrayed as something that can never possibly change. I don’t understand it and don’t think it’s fair or rooted in reality.

And I apologize for unloading this all on a reply to your post but it’s something that’s been going on here with multiple posters and I truly don’t get it

Tatum is a better shooter, gets to the line better, has better vision, is a better passer, turns the ball over less, rebounds better, and is a much better defensive player because he actually understands how to position himself on defense. Now, the difference in many of these categories isn’t huge, but some of them are, and overall they really aren’t close as players even before accounting for the age gap.

Jaylen Brown is a good to very good player who’s likely to be a perennial All Star in his prime. Tatum is a lock as an All Star in healthy seasons and is likely to be a perennial MVP candidate in his prime.

 

[mcpickl]

I’d be pretty surprised if Brown signed an extension. He’s a max player and an extension would lock him in to a sub max contract. His 24-25 starting salary would be maxed out around $34 million in an extension. The 7-9 max based on current projections would start around $41 million at that point. Hard to see him giving up that type of money, and that doesn’t account for the fact that I assume there’s a considerable ego component tied up in getting a max contract.

Maybe. If current projections on future salary caps hold, he'd be taking about 14M total less than his max over the first two years of his extension to lock in about 110M guaranteed two years earlier than he would on waiting for free agency. I'd assume he'd ask for that third year to have an early opt out and Celtics would agree to it. If I was his agent, I'd advise him to take the money unless he just absolutely hates it here.(Even then I'd probably say take the money, we can demand a trade later)

Either way, I'd stick to my original point. It's way too early to worry about Jaylen walking right now. Earliest point to worry would be if he turned down that extension.

 

[JakeRae]

Maybe. If current projections on future salary caps hold, he'd be taking about 14M total less than his max over the first two years of his extension to lock in about 110M guaranteed two years earlier than he would on waiting for free agency. I'd assume he'd ask for that third year to have an early opt out and Celtics would agree to it. If I was his agent, I'd advise him to take the money unless he just absolutely hates it here.(Even then I'd probably say take the money, we can demand a trade later)

Either way, I'd stick to my original point. It's way too early to worry about Jaylen walking right now. Earliest point to worry would be if he turned down that extension.

Yeah, I think what I’m saying is turning down the extension is the expected outcome and shouldn’t be a cause for concern either. The most likely outcome for Jaylen is he plays out his current contract and signs a max in Boston. How much he continues to improve may influence whether that’s a 5 year max or a 2+1 that sets him up for a Supermax in year 10. I’d bet on the former right now as I don’t think Jaylen is likely to be good enough where the Supermax is a realistically obtainable goal.

 

[RorschachsMask]

Trading this guy would hurt my heart. He can be traded on Tuesday, and this seems like a guy who knows he could be moved.

View: https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/1485394165571756039?s=20


View: https://twitter.com/JaredWeissNBA/status/1485394088346193926?s=20

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Trading this guy would hurt my heart. He can be traded on Tuesday, and this seems like a guy who knows he could be moved.

View: https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/1485394165571756039?s=20

Yup this sounds like he’s been notified by his agent that talks are deep and that he’s likely to be on the move. As an aside, Duncan Robinson hit 6 three’s today. (No, I am not endorsing that swap)

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Yup this sounds like he’s been notified by his agent that talks are deep and that he’s likely to be on the move. As an aside, Duncan Robinson hit 6 three’s today. (No, I am not endorsing that swap)

For Mitchell, obviously.

View: https://twitter.com/spidadmitchell/status/1485375010046820358?s=20

 

[NomarsFool]

Yup this sounds like he’s been notified by his agent that talks are deep and that he’s likely to be on the move.

There was some discussion on sports radio yesterday about MS missing time due to 'reconditioning' and a conspiracy theory that he was being held out because a deal was finalized, or near finalized and they were just waiting until Tuesday to announce it.

Of course, he played today, so seems like that theory is unlikley to be true (although it's still possibly true).

If the Celtics did tell him he was on the move, I wonder at what point you tell a player that? It would seem like you wouldn't really want to discuss trades that aren't really done - because it'd be ridiculously awkward if a player knew every time their name came up in conversations. But, this situation, where Smart can't be traded until Tuesday, does suggest the possibility that a trade is pretty much agreed upon, and they are just waiting for the deadline, which is why they told him about it. That would seem the kind and fair thing to do for him, if that was the case.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

There was some discussion on sports radio yesterday about MS missing time due to 'reconditioning' and a conspiracy theory that he was being held out because a deal was finalized, or near finalized and they were just waiting until Tuesday to announce it.

Of course, he played today, so seems like that theory is unlikley to be true (although it's still possibly true).

If the Celtics did tell him he was on the move, I wonder at what point you tell a player that? It would seem like you wouldn't really want to discuss trades that aren't really done - because it'd be ridiculously awkward if a player knew every time their name came up in conversations. But, this situation, where Smart can't be traded until Tuesday, does suggest the possibility that a trade is pretty much agreed upon, and they are just waiting for the deadline, which is why they told him about it. That would seem the kind and fair thing to do for him, if that was the case.

I doubt a team is ever directly telling a player that he is being shopped as that can easily affect his play, his mouth in the locker room, etc etc. To me, this sounds like one of three things…..

1. Smart’s agent, Jason Glushon, is tipped off by another GM or agent that they are deep into Smart discussions.

2. Glushon is quietly working with Brad to find a new home for his client. I’d say this is least likely but still possible.

3. Glushon, who also represents Duncan Robinson, is working out a change of scenery swap for his clients.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I don't think he's going anywhere. Too hard to find a value match.