16 Days in January—Determining Trade Deadline Activity

[Auger34]

Yep he's started half the games especially with Luka's CPAP machine going into overdrive this season.

Not happening now (trade deadline), but rumors of a sticky contract situation might make him available this summer.


You'll catch arrows in the back for most fake trade suggestions around here, just another part of the Cellars charm

Last summer HRB suggested Murray/Keldon Johnson for Brown. I kicked around Barnes/Haliburton for Brown. Nighthob threw out SGA. All were criticized. I'm a Brown fan but would be interested in all three of those PGs

Let me qualify, I don’t think any of the three offers you put up there are bad but I’m not sure they improve the team much.

I was suggesting something like Horford/Richardson/Langford/Nesmith and every pick you can throw at the Spurs for Murray and flotsam.
You could swap out Smart for Richardson or Horford but I’d prefer to keep Mahhhcus. I think an offer like that or something similar is the only way this team, as currently constructed with their roster and lack of interest in player development, can realistically get better and try to compete

 

[BigSoxFan]

Let me qualify, I don’t think any of the three offers you put up there are bad but I’m not sure they improve the team much.

I was suggesting something like Horford/Richardson/Langford/Nesmith and every pick you can throw at the Spurs for Murray and flotsam.
You could swap out Smart for Richardson or Horford but I’d prefer to keep Mahhhcus. I think an offer like that or something similar is the only way this team, as currently constructed with their roster and lack of interest in player development, can realistically get better and try to compete

There would be zero reason for the Spurs to do that type of deal. Murray is a building block player. Some on this board wanted him last year but, sadly, that ship has sailed. He’s gotten too good. Agree he would be a nice fit but I don’t see how you get him with the marginal assets at our disposal outside of the Jay’s.

 

[benhogan]

Let me qualify, I don’t think any of the three offers you put up there are bad but I’m not sure they improve the team much.

I was suggesting something like Horford/Richardson/Langford/Nesmith and every pick you can throw at the Spurs for Murray and flotsam.
You could swap out Smart for Richardson or Horford but I’d prefer to keep Mahhhcus. I think an offer like that or something similar is the only way this team, as currently constructed with their roster and lack of interest in player development, can realistically get better and try to compete

Agree Brad would do your deal all day long but the C's have to Give to Get. You probably got pushback because Spurs hangup unless Brad dangles Jaylen Brown

I believe an ascending Playmaker is worth more than an established Wing (Brown) to a Tatum led Celtics. Some called Murray/KJ, Haliburton/Barnes, SGA+ a sizeable downgrade from All-Star Jaylen Brown, two quarters for a dollar was the popular refrain

While those three teams would all be served with an established WING over a playmaker since they have White, Fox, Giddey

 

[Cesar Crespo]

There would be zero reason for the Spurs to do that type of deal. Murray is a building block player. Some on this board wanted him last year but, sadly, that ship has sailed. He’s gotten too good. Agree he would be a nice fit but I don’t see how you get him with the marginal assets at our disposal outside of the Jay’s.

Yeah. Even if they did, Smart and Murray would be an incredibly hard play together. That's especially true with TL.

I wouldn't mind Murray if he were to replace Smart.

TL/Tatum/Brown/Murray/Smart with the way Tatum is shooting this year? Then you trade one of your shooters in Richardson on top of that. Why? What is the plan if you empty the cupboard with Murray and keep Smart? Where do you get the shooting? How do you stagger the lineup?

Curious, do people think Murray is a top 40 player? top 30? I don't think he'd be worth everything but Jays/TL/Smart territory.

 

[benhogan]

Yeah. Even if they did, Smart and Murray would be an incredibly hard play together. That's especially true with TL.

I wouldn't mind Murray if he were to replace Smart.

TL/Tatum/Brown/Murray/Smart with the way Tatum is shooting this year? Then you trade one of your shooters in Richardson on top of that. Why? What is the plan if you empty the cupboard with Murray and keep Smart? Where do you get the shooting? How do you stagger the lineup?

Curious, do people think Murray is a top 40 player? top 30? I don't think he'd be worth everything but Jays/TL/Smart territory.

here is some Spurs reporter propaganda for you

https://crownhoops.com/2021/12/28/dejounte-murray-a-most-improved-player-spotlight/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=dejounte-murray-a-most-improved-player-spotlight

 

[Cesar Crespo]

here is some Spurs reporter propaganda for you

https://crownhoops.com/2021/12/28/dejounte-murray-a-most-improved-player-spotlight/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=dejounte-murray-a-most-improved-player-spotlight

He puts up big numbers on a bad team. Maybe I'm over fixated on his TS%. He's having a career year and his TS% is .507. For his career, it's .506. His career high is .524. He can't hit the 3 or the corner 3. Would he reel it on playing alongside the Jays?

I'd love to have him but I wouldn't empty the cupboards for him. He seems like a rich mans Marcus Smart and a lot of the problems the Celtics have now, they will still have.

Is there reason to believe Murray would be much more efficient alongside the Jays? Or would he make the other players that much more efficient that they can get by with his suboptimal shooting?

I don't see a Tatum/Brown/Murray core winning anything. Even if you add MS.

 

[Auger34]

He puts up big numbers on a bad team. Maybe I'm over fixated on his TS%. He's having a career year and his TS% is .507. For his career, it's .506. His career high is .524. He can't hit the 3 or the corner 3. Would he reel it on playing alongside the Jays?

I'd love to have him but I wouldn't empty the cupboards for him. He seems like a rich mans Marcus Smart and a lot of the problems the Celtics have now, they will still have.

Is there reason to believe Murray would be much more efficient alongside the Jays? Or would he make the other players that much more efficient that they can get by with his suboptimal shooting?

I don't see a Tatum/Brown/Murray core winning anything. Even if you add MS.

Just out of curiosity, what player out there would you empty the cupboard for? The Celtics don’t have enough assets to compete for the types of players that everyone would want (Beal, etc), so you almost have to overpay for whoever.
I don’t think the Celtics will ever truly bottom out with the talent they have but they’re also clearly not a true contender. Their coach doesn’t seem to want to develop any possible future assets. To sum it up, they are kind of in a weird purgatory type place right now.

I don’t think Murray is a perfect fit either (honestly Jrue Holiday looks like he would have fit amazingly. No wonder why Danny was trying so hard to get him)

Maybe if OKC gets shit lottery luck again, Presti would be interested in trading SGA for the Celtics mother load (literally everything but the Jays on the table)? Maybe Brogdon could be had for a few draft picks? I just really don’t see many appealing options who could fit what the Celtics need

 

[nighthob]

Are there realistic expectiaons for anything more than sideways moves? We don’t have touted young players with value like say a Kuminga that will return an upgrade. You aren’t getting back a better player than Marcus Smart in a trade for him…..only a different player. You aren’t getting back a better player than Jaylen Brown in a trade for him…..only a different player(s) who project as better positional fits.

Paying $74.5 million to unload Smart isn’t a sideways move. It’s a step back with zero upside. Bubble Robinson looked good and we had posters here comparing him to Steph as they gushed seminal fluid. But he’s been a defensive minus for his career and getting worse. And isn’t that good offensively either.

I suppose if you think that Drob would force Udoka to play Langford and Nesmith (and that they’re good enough to earn the time). But the odds are that Josh Richardson starts playing 40 minutes a night to eat up all the time. I can see the deal from Miami’s perspective, they’re paying Drob a lot of money to brick shots, play little to no D, and provide little else. Smart at least improves them.

Heck, thanks to a floating draft pick they owe the Thunder they can’t trade any firsts to make the deal palatable.

 

[nighthob]

The C's would have to pick up another center somewhere, because with Time Lord's frequent absences, the prospect of all those minutes going to Bruno and Freedom is terrifying.

Eno Freenando.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Just out of curiosity, what player out there would you empty the cupboard for? The Celtics don’t have enough assets to compete for the types of players that everyone would want (Beal, etc), so you almost have to overpay for whoever.
I don’t think the Celtics will ever truly bottom out with the talent they have but they’re also clearly not a true contender. Their coach doesn’t seem to want to develop any possible future assets. To sum it up, they are kind of in a weird purgatory type place right now.

I don’t think Murray is a perfect fit either (honestly Jrue Holiday looks like he would have fit amazingly. No wonder why Danny was trying so hard to get him)

Maybe if OKC gets shit lottery luck again, Presti would be interested in trading SGA for the Celtics mother load (literally everything but the Jays on the table)? Maybe Brogdon could be had for a few draft picks? I just really don’t see many appealing options who could fit what the Celtics need

I'd love Brogdon but someone said he couldn't even be traded this year? I'm not sure if that's true. He's also having an off year. I doubt the price on him would be too high but I could be way off. I'd take him. I'd ask about TJ Warren too. Where he's a FA this offseason and he's coming off an injury, I would kick the tires on him and see where's he at. I think the C's would be able to re-sign him if they really wanted to.

Beal is also a FA again at the end of this season, and at the end of 22/23. Smart and JRich wouldn't be hard to trade. Horford is off the books after 22/23, regardless. The Beal possibility isn't excluded to trades.

As far as who I'd empty the cupboards for, Ben Simmons (everyone but the Jays, preferably keep JRich). That's not happening, though. I'd empty them for a lot of players but I'm guessing you mean realistic targets. I don't think SGA is a realistic target but he seems to be named a lot, I'd empty the cupboards for him too. I don't think Brandon Ingram is a realistic target yet but part of me feels like he's going to end up being the 3rd star alongside the Jays. It's just going to be in 2 or 3 years.

I think there will be other star type players available that won't require emptying the cupboard for too. Just gambling. De'Aaron Fox comes to mind.

I'm also not opposed to trading Jaylen Brown if the C's decide that going with a Batman/Robin system is easier than going with 3 Musketeers. Brown isn't a good enough Robin if Batman is being played by Tatum.

edit: FWIW, I've never been a fan of Murray type players. AKA really inefficient scorers. Never cared for Marcus either.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Yeah Brogdon signed an extension in October, so he's not eligible for trade until after the deadline.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

If the C's decided to punt, they could probably move Smart, JRich and crew for picks. They could then use some of those picks to dump Horford.

Then I believe they could sign Beal in the offseason. I'm not a cap guy. It's close, anyway.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

I'd pass on Duncan. He's the type of player you hope to get lucky with, not the type you give up assets for when he's in the middle of a down year just to have the privilege of paying him $18 mil for the next 4+ years. Strus would be the guy to trade Smart for, but the contracts obviously don't line up.

I grew up 15-20 minutes from Duncan Robinson so I'm a bit of a fan. If they did trade for him, I'd learn to like it. I worry how he ages though. While shooting is the last skill to go, the rest of his game can't really afford any type of declines.

Getting Duncan Robinson for Smart also REQUIRES making another move for a PG (at the very least, someone who can bring up the ball), regardless of what the team does with DS. I would heavily prefer Huerter if that were a real option. While not a PG either, Huerter could probably fake it for a few minutes a game and I like his overall game more. He's also 4 years younger.

Robinson would be a gamble. The C's would be getting rid of one of their more valuable trade chips in the hope Robinson will rebound. If he gets back to 40%+ from 3 on 8+ attempts a game, it'll do wonders for the Celtics offense, especially Jaylen Brown. I could also see TL benefiting a lot with no MS and a return to form from Tatum and DRob. TL/Tatum/Jaylen/Duncan/xxx is a very intriguing lineup If Tatum/Brown/Duncan are all hitting 38%+ from 3 on around 8 attempts a game. 2 of TL's biggest strengths are offensive rebounding and his passing/vision.

Ideally, xxx would be a PG who can shoot the open 3, doesn't need a lot of FGA, and has better playmaking skills than DS and Smart but with TL/Tatum/Jaylen/Duncan, the team could get by with a non shooting PG. DS would be an ok fit with that core, though I think he'd still be better coming off the bench where he'd be the 2nd scoring option.

I dunno, maybe I would trade Smart of Duncan if I knew Duncan (and Tatum) would revert back to form. I see Jaylen Brown and TL thriving in that situation, but Tatum would benefit too. Whoever the 5th player is could drastically change the look of the team too. Go with PP and you have 4 deadly shooters and TL on the court.

Seriously though... adding Duncan to this team would completely change the identity. On paper, it would go from a meh shooting team to an awesome one. Tatum, Brown, Duncan, PP, JRich, Grant Williams. One would almost have to go out of their way to not have enough shooting on the court. Outside of the 2 big lineup, anyway. One would think if the C's acquired Robinson for Marcus Smart, it would be the death of the 2 big lineup. I can't see Ime going with TL/Horford/Jay/Jay/Duncan and I can't see trading Smart for Duncan if Duncan wasn't going to start.

Duncan to me is the kind of guy where you regret missing the boat but instead of trying to get him you’re better off focusing on getting the next version of him when he is still cheap.

I remember similar conversations happening here years ago about DeMarre Carroll not long before we found a way to get the next version of him in Jae Crowder.

Not that it’s easy to just make that happen but that’s why GMs get paid a lot of money.

 

[nighthob]

Duncan to me is the kind of guy where you regret missing the boat but instead of trying to get him you’re better off focusing on getting the next version of him when he is still cheap.

I remember similar conversations happening here years ago about DeMarre Carroll not long before we found a way to get the next version of him in Jae Crowder.

Not that it’s easy to just make that happen but that’s why GMs get paid a lot of money.

It’s just funny to us that Boston, literally, had the next version of Drob, and the reason that Miami’s trying to unload Drob is that he’s lost his place to that player that didn’t make the Celtics.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Duncan to me is the kind of guy where you regret missing the boat but instead of trying to get him you’re better off focusing on getting the next version of him when he is still cheap.

I remember similar conversations happening here years ago about DeMarre Carroll not long before we found a way to get the next version of him in Jae Crowder.

Not that it’s easy to just make that happen but that’s why GMs get paid a lot of money.

Yeah I liked Duncan as a role player/specialist on his cheap rookie deal……not so much clogging up our cap at 5/90.

 

[benhogan]

Duncan? Brad should have just kept Bryn Forbes

 

[radsoxfan]

My goals for the trade deadline.

1. Keep Tatum, Brown, Timelord

2. Don’t do anything that will remotely hamstring the off-season plans moving forward

3. Find some guys who are playable in the 4th quarter and can also shoot. Would like to see Brown/Tatum play in crunch time with normal floor spacing instead of this motley crew.

 

[shoelace]

It’s just funny to us that Boston, literally, had the next version of Drob, and the reason that Miami’s trying to unload Drob is that he’s lost his place to that player that didn’t make the Celtics.

I'm more pro-Danny than lots of other folks on the forum, but Tacko over Max Strus was a bad choice at the time that looks worse now. Strus shooting the same from 3 this season that Tacko is from the floor. Lol. No gimmick players on a two-way ever again.

 

[Jimbodandy]

This is hyperbolic. Second on the team in box +/-. One of the better passing bigs in the league still (93rd percentile in assist rate and 97th in assist/TO ratio) and doesn't turn it over (84th percentile). Hasn't shot well this year and is a little underwater in on/off (-1.8). Not a good basketball player is a stretch.

The only world in which Buddy is a better basketball player than Al is in the hoop twitterverse.

If Sac wants to blow it up, there's probably a combination of our shit for their shit that includes Buddy and makes sense for both teams.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I'm more pro-Danny than lots of other folks on the forum, but Tacko over Max Strus was a bad choice at the time that looks worse now. Strus shooting the same from 3 this season that Tacko is from the floor. Lol. No gimmick players on a two-way ever again.

You can be more pro-Danny. Danny didn't choose Tacko over Strus. Tacko was a two-way. Strus didn't want to play on a two-way. Strus was converted to a NBA contract with a partial guarantee and then was cut so that Danny could keep Green. https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/10/boston-celtics-waive-max-strus-and-others-opening-door-for-javonte-green-to-earn-final-roster-spot.html. Note that Strus then signed with someone else (Chicago?) and then had a year off recovering from knee injury and was a free agent when he signed with MIA on a two-way contract.

I really really wanted the Cs to keep Strus but to keep your pro-Danny perspective, Green has turned out to be a NBA player too.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Ainge has also pretty consistently preferred a "Javonte Green" profile in terms of strength/length/defense over a "Strus" profile e.g. shooter-only. There are exceptions over his many years (RJ Hunter!) but overall that fit a set of preferences that worked for Ainge in aggregate, even if not in every single case

 

[BigSoxFan]

Ainge has also pretty consistently preferred a "Javonte Green" profile in terms of strength/length/defense over a "Strus" profile e.g. shooter-only. There are exceptions over his many years (RJ Hunter!) but overall that fit a set of preferences that worked for Ainge in aggregate, even if not in every single case

You just made me think about JR Giddens

 

[shoelace]

You can be more pro-Danny. Danny didn't choose Tacko over Strus. Tacko was a two-way. Strus didn't want to play on a two-way. Strus was converted to a NBA contract with a partial guarantee and then was cut so that Danny could keep Green. https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/10/boston-celtics-waive-max-strus-and-others-opening-door-for-javonte-green-to-earn-final-roster-spot.html. Note that Strus then signed with someone else (Chicago?) and then had a year off recovering from knee injury and was a free agent when he signed with MIA on a two-way contract.

I really really wanted the Cs to keep Strus but to keep your pro-Danny perspective, Green has turned out to be a NBA player too.

I thought Adam Himmeslbach's reporting for the Globe was that the Celtics converted Strus's because he was willing to agree to a non-guaranteed second year, not because he didn't want to play on the two-way. He played on a two-way for Miami. Maybe there's additional context I'm missing, but it seems like they just dropped the ball on it because they wanted Tacko on a two way.

 

[benhogan]

I thought Adam Himmeslbach's reporting for the Globe was that the Celtics converted Strus's because he was willing to agree to a non-guaranteed second year, not because he didn't want to play on the two-way. He played on a two-way for Miami. Maybe there's additional context I'm missing, but it seems like they just dropped the ball on it because they wanted Tacko on a two way.

I get the frustration since they desperately need shooting (maybe we could have used Forbes?)

The Celtics have had a shed load of rookie/young players running around here the last few years: Semi, Kornet, Wagner, Tacko, Javonte, Tre, Carsen, Romeo, Nesmith, Pritchard, and Grant

Now they've added Hauser, Thomas, Mader, Begarin, Fernando to the stable over the last year

The one player they almost immediately cut free was Garrison Mathews (for Jabari Parker) this fall

Maybe they aren't very good at recognizing and/or developing young, fringe players?

I've said numerous times Danny did a pretty lousy job his last 2 years.

 

[mcpickl]

You can be more pro-Danny. Danny didn't choose Tacko over Strus. Tacko was a two-way. Strus didn't want to play on a two-way. Strus was converted to a NBA contract with a partial guarantee and then was cut so that Danny could keep Green.

. Note that Strus then signed with someone else (Chicago?) and then had a year off recovering from knee injury and was a free agent when he signed with MIA on a two-way contract.

I really really wanted the Cs to keep Strus but to keep your pro-Danny perspective, Green has turned out to be a NBA player too.

Danny absolutely chose Tacko over Strus. Strus was already signed on a two way deal(along with Waters), the Celtics decided they wanted Tacko over Strus. So to make Strus whole, they signed him to that partial guarantee for the maximum amount of money he would've received on his two way deal, then waived him.

If the C's decided to punt, they could probably move Smart, JRich and crew for picks. They could then use some of those picks to dump Horford.

Then I believe they could sign Beal in the offseason. I'm not a cap guy. It's close, anyway.

Even if they pared the roster down to just Tatum, Jaylen and Rob Williams, the Celtics couldn't just outright sign Beal to a max free agent deal.

 

[shoelace]

I get the frustration since they desperately need shooting (maybe we could have used Forbes?)

I've said numerous times Danny did a pretty lousy job his last 2 years.

You have been one of the more astute and evenhanded observers of Danny's shortcomings. So, props to you, to inject some positivity into the Cellar after another bad loss.

My issue, as I've stated before, is that Tacko's 99th percentile outcome was as a situational defensive big. He never credibly had rotation potential. Strus would have helped last year when the Celtics were shorthanded, and he'd definitely help this year with the lack of shooting. Tacko is a good human, it seems, and I'm happy the Celtics put money in his pocket and he got NBA meme fame off of it. But, it was an extremely bad basketball decision. And that was clear at the time, because Tacko has always been a bad basketball player.

 

[j-man]

how did memphis get so good yes i know about Ja but are they really the 4th/5th best team in the nba if they are since tatum is from st louis and memphis and chi are the closest nba teams to tauium hometown wouild a tatum hoford to memphis for jackson jr adams and more than 1 1st make sence for bos

because unless memphis adds a 2nd top10-15 player no way they get past GS Phx in a 7 game series

 

[Cesar Crespo]

how did memphis get so good yes i know about Ja but are they really the 4th/5th best team in the nba if they are since tatum is from st louis and memphis and chi are the closest nba teams to tauium hometown wouild a tatum hoford to memphis for jackson jr adams and more than 1 1st make sence for bos

because unless memphis adds a 2nd top10-15 player no way they get past GS Phx in a 7 game series

The only deal that might make sense for Boston is Tatum for Morant. Tatum is basically untouchable unless he demands a trade.

Jaylen Brown for Bane, JJJ and filler might make sense too. Neither are happening.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

how did memphis get so good yes i know about Ja but are they really the 4th/5th best team in the nba if they are since tatum is from st louis and memphis and chi are the closest nba teams to tauium hometown wouild a tatum hoford to memphis for jackson jr adams and more than 1 1st make sence for bos

because unless memphis adds a 2nd top10-15 player no way they get past GS Phx in a 7 game series

The team just doesn’t have holes. Like every box is checked off.

Top-2 star power? Ja and JJJ, check. Ja is a pure leader too.
Role players around them? Bane and Brooks (when healthy) are more than that, they are legit NBA 15-20 ppg scorers.
Physical presence for certain matchups? Adams leads the league in Off Reb playing half the game, check.
Depth? Double and Triple check……Melton, Jones and SLO-Mo are each among the best 2nd unit players in the league at their positions.

 

[benhogan]

You have been one of the more astute and evenhanded observers of Danny's shortcomings. So, props to you, to inject some positivity into the Cellar after another bad loss.

My issue, as I've stated before, is that Tacko's 99th percentile outcome was as a situational defensive big. He never credibly had rotation potential. Strus would have helped last year when the Celtics were shorthanded, and he'd definitely help this year with the lack of shooting. Tacko is a good human, it seems, and I'm happy the Celtics put money in his pocket and he got NBA meme fame off of it. But, it was an extremely bad basketball decision. And that was clear at the time, because Tacko has always been a bad basketball player.

BIGs are fungible and easy to acquire, so choosing one over a guy that could eventually shoot 40%+ (the most impt skill to have in the NBA) is terrible. If you banged the Strus drum hard at the time over Tacko credit to you. I liked Javonte Green and thought it came down to those two (maybe my memory is bad)

The Miami system/Spo are tremendous at development. BUT Strus probably doesn't become STRUS 40%+ dart thrower for Boston. The C's have sucked at end of the roster/draft/development for several seasons. They've thrown a lot of popcorn in a pan (noted above) and so far they have a half popped kernel in Granite. So in two short seasons, they have gone from EC Finalist to .500 to play-in fodder. Some of that decline is due to their inability to develop the young/controlled assets for both oncourt production and trade assets.

 

[lovegtm]

I don't see how you can look at this team and come to a conclusion other than that tanking this season, or something similarly drastic, is essential.

Yes, it's hard to do that while keeping the Jays happy, and Brad would have to get very creative. He's also paid very large amounts of money to be creative, so I don't think that's a huge ask.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Danny absolutely chose Tacko over Strus. Strus was already signed on a two way deal(along with Waters), the Celtics decided they wanted Tacko over Strus. So to make Strus whole, they signed him to that partial guarantee for the maximum amount of money he would've received on his two way deal, then waived him.

I guess but that's a weird way to look at it to me. I guess you could say that they kept Waters over Strus as well. But every report at the time said that the final roster spot came down to Strus versus Green. Such as example 1 and example 2. They could have kept Strus and Tacko if they had cut Green but they didn't.

I'll also note that another reason the Cs gave Strus some $ is thst they'd keep his rights if Strus went overseas. But he didn't.

I don't see how you can look at this team and come to a conclusion other than that tanking this season, or something similarly drastic, is essential.

As long as the Jays are healthy, the Cs are not going to tank. First of all, you'd have to sit one or the other as even in this basically down year for both of them, they are good enough to pull off enough wins to prevent a true tank.

That being said, JB still doesn't look 100%. I wonder if JT also has some undisclosed injury he's trying to play through?

 

[jerry casale]

I don't see how you can look at this team and come to a conclusion other than that tanking this season, or something similarly drastic, is essential.

Yes, it's hard to do that while keeping the Jays happy, and Brad would have to get very creative. He's also paid very large amounts of money to be creative, so I don't think that's a huge ask.

Gee, I thought they were/are tanking??
65 year (yes I met Sam Jones several times, RIP) fan here and the only other time I was this embarrassed was the Rowe/Wicks era
They aren't going anywhere. They can't shoot, they have NO bench and they just don't seem to play well together.
They have to blow it up.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I don't see how you can look at this team and come to a conclusion other than that tanking this season, or something similarly drastic, is essential.

Yes, it's hard to do that while keeping the Jays happy, and Brad would have to get very creative. He's also paid very large amounts of money to be creative, so I don't think that's a huge ask.

I’d imagine tanking the season would be above Brad’s pay grade. This would surely need to be signed off on by Wyc & Co which as I’ve said previously I can’t see happening while this team is a playoff team.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

It doesn’t have to be an obvious tank; but you could trade Schroder, shut down Horford, and easily slide from the 10th spot in the conference to 12th. Hell that may happen anyways; not a lot separating the Raptors, Knicks, Wiz, Celtics, and Hawks.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

It doesn’t have to be an obvious tank; but you could trade Schroder, shut down Horford, and easily slide from the 10th spot in the conference to 12th. Hell that may happen anyways; not a lot separating the Raptors, Knicks, Wiz, Celtics, and Hawks.

Getting the 14th pick in the lottery would be awesome!

They need to have the 9 or 10th worst record to have a real chance of moving up to the top 4.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I guess but that's a weird way to look at it to me. I guess you could say that they kept Waters over Strus as well. But every report at the time said that the final roster spot came down to Strus versus Green. Such as example 1 and example 2. They could have kept Strus and Tacko if they had cut Green but they didn't.

Does it matter who Ainge picked? Waters, Edwards, Tacko, Green. Taking any of the 4 over Strus was a mistake. Fact of the matter is they could have kept Strus at the expensive of another shitty player. This is what I was talking about with signing Semi to a 4 year deal or Carsen to a 3 year deal. The teams stay committed to crappy players because it's guaranteed money and cut players with promise because non guarantee.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Does it matter who Ainge picked? Waters, Edwards, Tacko, Green. Taking any of the 4 over Strus was a mistake. Fact of the matter is they could have kept Strus at the expensive of another shitty player. This is what I was talking about with signing Semi to a 4 year deal or Carsen to a 3 year deal. The teams stay committed to crappy players because it's guaranteed money and cut players with promise because non guarantee.

With regard to the bolded, no one was saying that DA made a mistake in December 2019 when Strus tore his ACL nor did I hear very many people in basketball circles clamoring that their team should bring Strus into training camp in 2020 when anyone could have signed him.

If DA had kept Strus and waived Green and Strus had gotten injured and Green had contributed somewhere down the line, would it have been a mistake for DA to cut Green?

As for the guaranteed money, I know you know this but just want to point out that teams give second-round picks like Semi and Carsen multi-year contracts because it's supposed to be the thing that smart teams do. Teams don't want guys who look like they can play NBA basketball to be free agents after a year so they lock them up at low money. Semi didn't suck - the Cs got legit NBA minutes and he was particularly good against one important match-up - which is a ton more than most second-round guys get. And even though Waters didn't make it for whatever reason, don't forget that infamous comment allegedly from another GM that Waters after summer league was better than a bunch of back-up PGs in the league.

Instead of saying that DA made a mistake, maybe we should acknowledge that he was choosing among guys who could (mostly) contribute at a NBA-level talent for those spots, which is more than some teams do. I mean among Semi and Strus and Green and Wannamaker and E'Tuan Moore and Abdel Nader (to name a few), it seems like Danny did have a knack for spotting NBA-level talent where most GMs fail.

Finally, hopefully the Cs can put this all behind them and developer Hauser into one of these guys.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

With regard to the bolded, no one was saying that DA made a mistake in December 2019 when Strus tore his ACL nor did I hear very many people in basketball circles clamoring that their team should bring Strus into training camp in 2020 when anyone could have signed him.

If DA had kept Strus and waived Green and Strus had gotten injured and Green had contributed somewhere down the line, would it have been a mistake for DA to cut Green?

As for the guaranteed money, I know you know this but just want to point out that teams give second-round picks like Semi and Carsen multi-year contracts because it's supposed to be the thing that smart teams do. Teams don't want guys who look like they can play NBA basketball to be free agents after a year so they lock them up at low money. Semi didn't suck - the Cs got legit NBA minutes and he was particularly good against one important match-up - which is a ton more than most second-round guys get. And even though Waters didn't make it for whatever reason, don't forget that infamous comment allegedly from another GM that Waters after summer league was better than a bunch of back-up PGs in the league.

Instead of saying that DA made a mistake, maybe we should acknowledge that he was choosing among guys who could (mostly) contribute at a NBA-level talent for those spots, which is more than some teams do. I mean among Semi and Strus and Green and Wannamaker and E'Tuan Moore and Abdel Nader (to name a few), it seems like Danny did have a knack for spotting NBA-level talent where most GMs fail.

Finally, hopefully the Cs can put this all behind them and developer Hauser into one of these guys.

Semi was terrible and only played due to injury and Stevens liking him. Semi sucked, anyone saying otherwise is using revisionist history.

And why can't we just say Ainge made a mistake? He did. He made a lot of them at the end of his tenure. He was choosing among guys who could contribute at a NBA level and chose wrong.

Why do people on this board have such a hard time criticizing Danny Ainge?

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Also people assume Strus wouldn't be the same player on the C"s as he is on the Heat. He'd have developed "differently."

Yet, they assume Strus would still have been "injured" if he were on the C's and not Miami. Funny how that works. Some things are fate and others aren't, apparently.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

With regard to the bolded, no one was saying that DA made a mistake in December 2019 when Strus tore his ACL nor did I hear very many people in basketball circles clamoring that their team should bring Strus into training camp in 2020 when anyone could have signed him.

Agreed. This is like saying we screwed up by not keeping Ben Wallace after we and every other team passed on him another 4-5x after each time he was waived/became FA. Ainge “screwed up” as much as every other team who failed to sign Strus after tearing his ACL as all had the same opportunity.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Semi was terrible and only played due to injury and Stevens liking him. Semi sucked, anyone saying otherwise is using revisionist history.

And why can't we just say Ainge made a mistake? He did. He made a lot of them at the end of his tenure. He was choosing among guys who could contribute at a NBA level and chose wrong.

Why do people on this board have such a hard time criticizing Danny Ainge?

People on this board criticize DA and Brad and Ime all the time. In fact, message boards, like social media, get more engagement when people have something to criticize than when they don't.

I just have no idea what "mistake" you are talking about. DA made a mistake by not keeping Strus on the team in 2019 even though he ended up injured and would have been a FA in 2020 anyways? DA made a mistake by not knowing that Strus would end up being a rotation player? DA made a mistake in 2020 by not being more aggressive in getting Strus into camp?

DA made a reasonable decision that many others would have made in real time (you can look at the discussions on this board as the 2019 threads are still available). Maybe you have different standards for people and that's fine but that's all I'm pointing out. At the end of the day, team execs are measured on wins and losses so whatever people think about individual moves is fine.

And I say all this as someone, IIRC, wanted the Cs to keep Strus.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I just have no idea what "mistake" you are talking about. DA made a mistake by not keeping Strus on the team in 2019 even though he ended up injured and would have been a FA in 2020 anyways?

Why do you think the injury would still happen if he were on the C's? Why do you think it was fate? If that was predestined to happen, talking about any of this is stupid because the Gods wanted Strus in Miami.

 

[lexrageorge]

Teams miss on Max Strus type players all the time. There's usually a good reason they are available for zero cost, and why multiple GM's pass on signing these players over multiple years. No GM is going to fail to miss out on such players; it's part of life as an NBA GM, even a wildly successful one.

A bigger issue is missing badly on both Romeo and Nesmith, and dumping Bane. Do better on any one of those 3, and nobody is talking about Max Strus other than to say "good for him".

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

This team with Max Strus isn't likely to win a championship. He is gone and mistakes were made. No matter how much we discuss them as well as the facts and circumstances around these decisions, they cannot be undone.

This is a thread for now and what the team can do to right the ship. From where I sit, the guiding light is still the same - add talent to Tatum and Brown via any means. Everyone else should be available in the right deal including TL. Trading a Horford for a worse player who shoots better or Smart for a snowblower isn't going to get it done - the goal is to improve the team, not get this dude off my screen. Improve the talent on the roster going forward to be exact.

Tanking isn't likely to help the Tatum/Brown Celtics (in my view it increases the odds of one/both asking out), trading just to trade isn't a serious solution and the nature of the ECF at present means the playoffs are still a realistic goal.

This team probably won't win anything this season but if Brad makes some decent moves, there is a chance that they start to play better moving forward. Maybe they won't but they have to try.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Teams miss on Max Strus type players all the time. There's usually a good reason they are available for zero cost, and why multiple GM's pass on signing these players over multiple years. No GM is going to fail to miss out on such players; it's part of life as an NBA GM, even a wildly successful one.

A bigger issue is missing badly on both Romeo and Nesmith, and dumping Bane. Do better on any one of those 3, and nobody is talking about Max Strus other than to say "good for him".

Yeah, but if they keep Strus, no one cares about Romeo or Nesmith. It would take a lot of the sting out of Bane too. It only takes 1 player.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Teams miss on Max Strus type players all the time. There's usually a good reason they are available for zero cost, and why multiple GM's pass on signing these players over multiple years. No GM is going to fail to miss out on such players; it's part of life as an NBA GM, even a wildly successful one.

A bigger issue is missing badly on both Romeo and Nesmith, and dumping Bane. Do better on any one of those 3, and nobody is talking about Max Strus other than to say "good for him".

Agreed on Strus part. I don’t know how Romeo can be called “missing badly” as he’s developed into a decent role player and still very young when the other options in that range are similar-type role players for the most part. Hindsight is 20/20 and as much as I’ve hated Nesmith since his deer in headlights opener I wasn’t against the pick (neither were many others iirc)……of course today we’d all prefer Cole Anthony, Bey, or Maxey but I don’t recall those cries at the time.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Agreed on Strus part. I don’t know how Romeo can be called “missing badly” as he’s developed into a decent role player and still very young when the other options in that range are similar-type role players for the most part. Hindsight is 20/20 and as much as I’ve hated Nesmith since his deer in headlights opener I wasn’t against the pick (neither were many others iirc)……of course today we’d all prefer Cole Anthony, Bey, or Maxey but I don’t recall those cries at the time.

Yeah, but the Port Cellar isn't paid millions of dollars to get these decisions right.

Agreed Romeo wasn't that big a miss as there are only a few hits after him. Still, hard to be all that excited by Romeo Langford. Lots of good players were taken after Nesmith though. That one could hurt. Still too early on both of them but the C's really needed one of Nesmith/Langford to develop into a Bane type. It was the most obvious path to improvement and it doesn't appear to be in the cards... but both are 22 and have time.

 

[BigMike]

The only world in which Buddy is a better basketball player than Al is in the hoop twitterverse.

If Sac wants to blow it up, there's probably a combination of our shit for their shit that includes Buddy and makes sense for both teams.

Possibly, but most likely if Sac wants to blow it up they find a contender who can use Heild and will give them an asset or two, while taking on a bad contract. He is a perfect fit for some teams. Maybe Celtics could do the same with Al to a contender. To me the only way Al for Buddy works, is if Sac thinks Al can be enough to push them into the playoffs.

 

[lovegtm]

I’d imagine tanking the season would be above Brad’s pay grade. This would surely need to be signed off on by Wyc & Co which as I’ve said previously I can’t see happening while this team is a playoff team.

They were willing to blow up the 2013 KG/Pierce team, which would have had about as much a shot at the playoffs as this year's team.