Your 2015 Boston Red Sox

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In my lifetime

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geoduck no quahog said:
Think it's time to update/speculate about the payroll. Let's assume Cespedes is shed and we don't know what's coming back for him yet.
 
In My Lifetime left off on 1 August at $136.9M (hasn't their been another update? I can't find it).
 
- Deduct 9M for Cesdpedes and 5M for Uehara. Deduct 1.4M for Middlebrooks = $121.5M
 
- Add 10.5M for Castillo = $132M
 
- Add (presumed) $22M for Ramirez and $19M for Sandoval = $173M
 
189 - 173 = 16M
 
Assuming costs carried for backup catcher (Ross money), Nava and a bunch of minimums are ok for argument's sake. Only Buchholz and Kelly included.
 
I know I'm fucking up somewhere.
 
Can someone help out?
 
After the 24 hour shopping spree, I have the RS at ~178.4.  So 10.6 within the luxury cap number that it looks like they are going pass by a substantial margin.
 
Assuming Cespedes is traded will save 9M.
 
So that is 20M before they hit the tax number and the following needs still exist:
#1 Starter 
#2/3 starter
Back up catcher
Fill out the bullpen
 
My guesses are
Lester @22M
#2/3 Starter (@~15M) obtained via trade for Cespedes + prospects 
Inexpensive back up catcher at 1-2 M
Less expensive bullpen, meaning Miller goes elsewhere (unless Mujica and his 4.75M is also moved)
 
AAV payroll starts the season at ~212
 

TomRicardo

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Hank Scorpio said:
From everyone's favorite 14 year old...


There's probably about 3 players I'd trade Bogaerts for, and even then I'd feel sick over it.
 
Trout, Sale, and Kershaw?
 
I mean if you could get any of those three for him you run with it.  That list would be a lot larger for me.  (If you are crying by getting Buster Posey, I am not sure what to tell you).
 
That said I would imagine Cespedes is the odd man out.
 

BeantownIdaho

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So what is the deal with the luxury tax....Is it if they go over at ANY time during the year or is it like in football where you have a certain date you have to be under? Meaning, you can go over but still have time to make other moves to get back under the threshhold?  Make me smarter SOSH....make me smarter.
 

Drek717

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SoxFanForsyth said:
Buster Olney mentioned on his WEEI interview yesterday that the Mariners have told others that Iwakuma is available. I agree that a Cespedes for Iwakuma makes a ton of sense and think this may happen. Salaries are close too (10mm for 7mm).

I now think the Sox get 3 SP. Sign Lester. Trade Cespedes for an Iwakuma type. And unload some prospects for a high end SP.
And keep zero rotation spots in to bring up any of their own young talent?  That is a good way to get right back to the 2010 roster inflexibility.
 
I'm thinking one ace signed long term (ideally Lester, if not then Scherzer, Hamels, Cueto, or maybe they live with Shields), one of the solid #2's on one year deals with no intent to extend them during the season OR a young starter with long term cost control (think Tyson Ross from San Diego), Buchholz and Kelly are the 3rd and 4th starters, Webster, RDLR, and Ranaudo fight for the 5th job with the runner up moving to long relief/6th man (I'm betting it would be RDLR at 5, Webster at 6, and Ranaudo goes back to AAA but ultimately rejoins the bullpen by mid-season as he strikes me as a great reliever still wasting time as a starter).
 
Then if Buchholz, Kelly, or one of the young guys establishes himself as a good #2 in 2015 they have their ace, the #2, and at least one good 3-5 option.  If they have two good 3-5 options then next year one rotation spot is up for grabs between Owens, Rodriguez, Barnes, Johnson, and the left over guys from this year's pitching "graduates".  If Buchholz can't stay healthy/sucks again and they decline his option or if none of Kelly/RDLR/Webster look good in the rotation then they sign one SP from the very good FA class lined up for 2016 (or trade for one) and still pick one of the young guys to bring up.
 
Basically, pay your ace and pay him long term if needed.  Your #2 should be on a 2-3 year deal for market rate dollars at most.  The 3-5 guys then need to be composed of pre-arb, arb., and team friendly longer term deal guys to keep costs down and flexibility up.
 
The whole philosophy here needs to be spending on the very top end guys who stabilize the roster while all the young talent fills in the depth chart.  When young talent hits you lock them in and the entire financial structure becomes more tenable.  When they miss you get the next guy up.  The top end performers should keep you in it year to year and the seasons when more young guys hit than miss you'll be a powerhouse.  Then trust in the organization's evaluation of talent and keep the cupboards from becoming bare down on the farm (by drafting well, signing international FAs aggressively, and trading guys as they're about to leave or become redundant for younger prospects).
 
If a deal is happening today my guess is that they're sending a handful of 40 roster prospects out the door for Tyson Ross.  Something like Cecchini, Webster and Britton with a low level guy not named Margot or Devers (maybe Rijo?) going back.
 

SoxFanForsyth

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Drek717 said:
And keep zero rotation spots in to bring up any of their own young talent?  That is a good way to get right back to the 2010 roster inflexibility.
 
I'm thinking one ace signed long term (ideally Lester, if not then Scherzer, Hamels, Cueto, or maybe they live with Shields), one of the solid #2's on one year deals with no intent to extend them during the season OR a young starter with long term cost control (think Tyson Ross from San Diego), Buchholz and Kelly are the 3rd and 4th starters, Webster, RDLR, and Ranaudo fight for the 5th job with the runner up moving to long relief/6th man (I'm betting it would be RDLR at 5, Webster at 6, and Ranaudo goes back to AAA but ultimately rejoins the bullpen by mid-season as he strikes me as a great reliever still wasting time as a starter).
 
Then if Buchholz, Kelly, or one of the young guys establishes himself as a good #2 in 2015 they have their ace, the #2, and at least one good 3-5 option.  If they have two good 3-5 options then next year one rotation spot is up for grabs between Owens, Rodriguez, Barnes, Johnson, and the left over guys from this year's pitching "graduates".  If Buchholz can't stay healthy/sucks again and they decline his option or if none of Kelly/RDLR/Webster look good in the rotation then they sign one SP from the very good FA class lined up for 2016 (or trade for one) and still pick one of the young guys to bring up.
 
Basically, pay your ace and pay him long term if needed.  Your #2 should be on a 2-3 year deal for market rate dollars at most.  The 3-5 guys then need to be composed of pre-arb, arb., and team friendly longer term deal guys to keep costs down and flexibility up.
 
The whole philosophy here needs to be spending on the very top end guys who stabilize the roster while all the young talent fills in the depth chart.  When young talent hits you lock them in and the entire financial structure becomes more tenable.  When they miss you get the next guy up.  The top end performers should keep you in it year to year and the seasons when more young guys hit than miss you'll be a powerhouse.  Then trust in the organization's evaluation of talent and keep the cupboards from becoming bare down on the farm (by drafting well, signing international FAs aggressively, and trading guys as they're about to leave or become redundant for younger prospects).
 
If a deal is happening today my guess is that they're sending a handful of 40 roster prospects out the door for Tyson Ross.  Something like Cecchini, Webster and Britton with a low level guy not named Margot or Devers (maybe Rijo?) going back.
Roster inflexibility??

If they get Iwakuma, he is a FA in 2016. Buchholz has a 13mm option that could well be declined. That's two slots.

Maybe the Cards have a strong model that we should follow: break in young pitchers in the bullpen. Allowing Webster, Barnes, RDLR, and Workman to have big roles in the pen and then assessing how they should attack the 2016 rotation would be a very strong idea, particularly given at the young kids performance in the rotation the past few years
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Corsi said:
This guy has had info lately:
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Expecting a traded from the Boston Red Sox before 2 pm, they will not DFA any player. #MLB #Redsox #MLB

https://twitter.com/MibeltRodriguez/status/537246438347247617"]

link to tweet[/url]
https://twitter.com/MibeltRodriguez/status/537246438347247617
[URL="https://twitter.com/MibeltRodriguez/status/537246438347247617

https://twitter.com/MibeltRodriguez/status/537246438347247617"]link

link to tweet to tweet[/url]

I would think that Francisco and Lavarnway would be easy choices to DFA. Correct?
 

sean1562

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Snodgrass'Muff said:
 
There were only 4 qualified shortstops with a better than .731 OPS in 2014. People need to recalibrate their expecations for offensive production.
 
yea but a poor fielding ss with an OPS around .730-.750 isnt really a 6 WAR player and one that I would be pretty open to trading. Thats basically Ian Desmond. isnt he supposed to be a Hanly Ramirez level bat at SS? 
 

MakMan44

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sean1562 said:
 
yea but a poor fielding ss with an OPS around .730-.750 isnt really a 6 WAR player and one that I would be pretty open to trading. Thats basically Ian Desmond. isnt he supposed to be a Hanly Ramirez level bat at SS? 
That's silly. Xander has a lot of value pre-arb at those levels, even if he doesn't hit 6 WAR next season. Not to mention, he'll be doing it at 22.
 
EDIT:Not to mention that a 6 WAR season would make him a top 10 in all of MLB and probably top 5 in the AL. You're expecting way, way too much out of Xander. 
 

rodderick

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sean1562 said:
 
yea but a poor fielding ss with an OPS around .730-.750 isnt really a 6 WAR player and one that I would be pretty open to trading. Thats basically Ian Desmond. isnt he supposed to be a Hanly Ramirez level bat at SS? 
 
Your expectations were of him being worth 6 WAR at 22, in his second year in the majors? He isn't "supposed" to be anything, he has the potential and the makeup to be an elite offensive player. Expecting him to reach that ceiling at the very start of his career is unfair.
 
And "basically Ian Desmond" is supposed to be a slight against Bogaerts? Desmond has been worth 14 WAR in the last 3 seasons, if Xander can be that player at, say, 23, that would be incredibly valuable.
 

sean1562

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i suppose i didnt mean immediately, but the expectation is that he will someday be a 5-6 WAR player, no? with his defense a .730 line is probably not all that great of a player right? does he slowly move .030 OPS point a year? how does that progression work? 
 

ookami7m

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CaskNFappin said:
What was the sentiment around here when Hanley and Sanchez were traded?
 
Most thought Sanchez a talented lotto ticket but the big loss was Hanley. At the time it was viewed as Hanley for Beckett with Sanchez and Lowell as a throw in and dead contract respectively. 
 

MakMan44

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sean1562 said:
i suppose i didnt mean immediately, but the expectation is that he will someday be a 5-6 WAR player, no? with his defense a .730 line is probably not all that great of a player right? does he slowly move .030 OPS point a year? how does that progression work? 
Nobody can answer that, though I wish we could. 
 
EDIT: Rodderick's answer is so much better. 
 

sean1562

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is an ian desmond like player someone we refuse to trade for anybody? and i was under the impression desmond's defense was way worse than it has been rated. i am kind of surprised at those numbers
 

rodderick

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sean1562 said:
i suppose i didnt mean immediately, but the expectation is that he will someday be a 5-6 WAR player, no? with his defense a .730 line is probably not all that great of a player right? does he slowly move .030 OPS point a year? how does that progression work? 
 
No one knows how the progression works, most people here just want to see some level of progression. Obviously it'll be better is he's a .810 OPS SS, instead of a .730 OPS one, but that doesn't mean that in the latter scenario he failed, precisely because he is so young. It can be gradual, things can click for him instantly, or he may never improve on 2013 at all. There's no way of knowing. It's just that no matter how good a prospect is, he shouldn't have expectations raised to a point where he's definitively judged as a player if he isn't an All-Star at age 22. There are growing pains, let's see what happens. 
 

phenweigh

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Does anybody know the status of the 40 man roster?  Is it full or do they have room to add Hanley and Pablo without a corresponding move(s)?  Is there a grace period for adding to the 40 man roster after a signing?
 

soxhop411

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phenweigh said:
Does anybody know the status of the 40 man roster?  Is it full or do they have room to add Hanley and Pablo without a corresponding move(s)?  Is there a grace period for adding to the 40 man roster after a signing?
It's full
 

JohntheBaptist

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ookami7m said:
 
Most thought Sanchez a talented lotto ticket but the big loss was Hanley. At the time it was viewed as Hanley for Beckett with Sanchez and Lowell as a throw in and dead contract respectively. 
 
Maybe a nitpick, but no one here saw Sanchez as a talented lotto ticket. He was right there with Lester and Papelbon as our big three pitching prospects at the time.
 

LeoCarrillo

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You guys are no fun. It's three players for Cashner or Hamels. Now that's a press conference.
 

MakMan44

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Alex Wilson? Does he still have an option left? He's been alright and if he can ride the shuttle, I think he should stick around.
 

ALiveH

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Bogaerts put up an 0.859 OPS in his first 238 PAs in 2014 and a 0.824 OPS in his final 106 PAs, sandwiching his historically bad 0.405 in 250 PAs.  The bad stretch also largely coincided with his move to 3B, which I & a lot of people argued prior shouldn't affect him b/c of his great makeup & personality.  Well, lots of people were wrong & he's not perfect.  It did affect him.  Also, MLB pitching adjusted to him, busting him with high & inside FBs and junk away & it took him a while to adjust back.  Given his age, I'm pretty bullish that he can do a better job minimizing his slumps and be closer to the 0.800+ OPS hitter next year than the 0.660 overall line in 2013. 
 
For reference, Hanley put up the best OPS in the majors (0.817) among full-time shortstops (and he's moving off the position).  Peralta was #2 at 0.779, good for 5.8 WAR (by whatever WAR methodology ESPN uses)
 
good article reviewing his season below:
http://news.soxprospects.com/2014/11/2014-graduates-in-review-xander-bogaerts.html
 

The Gray Eagle

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Francisco needs to go now that we have 2 more third basemen, one of them a switch hitter. No need for him with Sandoval on the team. Weeks can go too, as he is a backup utility IF. 
 
Lavarnway is getting moved this offseason but probably not today. He will go somewhere else and be a solid backup catcher, which is annoying because the Red Sox need a solid backup catcher. But they just won't use him in that role. 
 

Auger34

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bosockboy said:
Jaso might be today's trade. A's are shopping him and he's a perfect fit to caddy Vasquez.
Don't think the Sox (or A's for that matter) trust him to be able to stay behind the dish for any meaningful amount of games
 

PaulinMyrBch

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MYRTLE BEACH!!!!
Anyone guessing the move to clear the 40 for Hanley? I'm thinking Weeks. What is the deadline to clear the spot? Does it have to be simultaneous with the signing of the free agent?
 

TomRicardo

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PaulinMyrBch said:
Anyone guessing the move to clear the 40 for Hanley? I'm thinking Weeks. What is the deadline to clear the spot? Does it have to be simultaneous with the signing of the free agent?
 
Yes.  They need to move someone off the 40 before the signing is official. 
 
Weeks and Britton are probably the choice now.
 

Hank Scorpio

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bosockboy said:
Jaso might be today's trade. A's are shopping him and he's a perfect fit to caddy Vasquez.
Adding Jaso makes sense, but it doesn't make a lot of sense today.

We need to free up two roster spots, and I'm not sure how you do that in a Jaso trade, unless it's something like Shark and Jaso for Cespedes, Lavarnway and two prospects.
 

phenweigh

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I think there is a fair chance that Weeks will make the opening day roster as backup shortstop.  The Lavarnway DFA shows some confidence in Butler I suppose.
 

soxhop411

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Savin Hillbilly said:
 
Since this makes a Betts deal more likely, I hate it.
Doesn't he have to say that? He can't say they are trying to trade him or that he has no position on the team now.
 

grimshaw

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BornToRun said:
Translation: "I'll do whatever you want! Please don't make me hit in Seattle!"
Hypothetical but can you imagine how many left handed pitchers would have tummy aches when visiting Fenway?
 
CF - Betts
2B - Pedey
DH - Ortiz
1B - Hanley
3B - Sandoval
LF - Cespedes
SS - Bogaerts
RF - Castillo
C - Vazquez
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Corsi said:
Expecting a traded from the Boston Red Sox before 2 pm, they will not DFA any player. #MLB #Redsox #MLB
https://twitter.com/MibeltRodriguez/status/537246438347247617
link to tweet
 
And...time!
 
Was looking forward to 2 pm all day today.  Now what do I do?
 

ScubaSteveAvery

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Savin Hillbilly said:
 
Since this makes a Betts deal more likely, I hate it.
I mean, the Sox just signed a guy to take Cesepes position in the field so he had to agree to go somewhere. I know it's fun to think that he doesn't exist but he's still a member of this team and should be treated as such by the FO.
 
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