Your 2015 Boston Red Sox

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Galway Sox Fan

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Dec 8, 2013
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ScubaSteveAvery said:
I mean, the Sox just signed a guy to take Cesepes position in the field so he had to agree to go somewhere. I know it's fun to think that he doesn't exist but he's still a member of this team and should be treated as such by the FO.
I would agree to an extent however if there is some truth to the reports that he was either not willing to move to RF when asked last season or if he was showing no signs of learning the wall then he may have already burnt his bridges as far a the FO goes.
 

Cellar-Door

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CaskNFappin

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Cellar-Door said:
Mookie Betts supersub?
Not the worst thing. I'd rather he played every day, but if there isn't a good value day he can get a good amount of time filling in all 3 OF spots and 2B. Someone will get hurt at some point.
I think this is clearly posturing to improve their bargaining position.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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CaskNFappin said:
I think this is clearly posturing to improve their bargaining position.
Yeah, it doesn't make sense to say anything else at this point, for him or the FO.

I don't think there's anything that makes a Betts trade more likely, short of a very select few names being made available. Cespedes will walk then they'd just be looking for an outfielder again next offseason.
 

ivanvamp

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Jul 18, 2005
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Cellar-Door said:
Mookie Betts supersub?
Not the worst thing. I'd rather he played every day, but if there isn't a good value day he can get a good amount of time filling in all 3 OF spots and 2B. Someone will get hurt at some point.
Like basically everyone else on earth, I expect Cespedes to be traded. But if not, Betts could basically play every day as a super sub. It would keep everyone else fresh.
 

LeoCarrillo

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Great work, Lauber.

The 14 year old who's hacking JWH's emails figured that was so obvious it wasn't worth tweeting.
 

67WasBest

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Based on current rumors, this could become known as an "Evolutionary Year" for the Sox.  A year the Gorilla evolved into talent and the Beckett / Lowell trade is reversed.
 
1) Lester rumors indicate a return to Boston - assume done in Boston's favor
2) Sanchez on the block rumors from Detroit, trade Cespedes, Mujica and Cecchini for Sanchez
3) Sign Miller
4) Sign a 2nd catcher, or just use Butler until Swihart is ready
5) San Diego rumor for Tyson Ross - Renaudo, WMB and Coyle for Ross
 
Lester, Sanchez, Ross Buchholz and Kelly - 53M
Victorino RF, Pedroia 2B, Ortiz DH, Ramirez LF, Sandoval 3B, Napoli 1B, Castillo CF, Bogaerts, Vazquez, Betts, Holt, Weeks, 2nd Catcher - 109M
Uehara, Miller, Tazawa, Badenhop RDLR, Workman, Layne, Wilson - 22M
 
That could be had for $184M
 
Victorino, Napoli, 2nd Catcher and likely Buchholz, move on after the season and are replaced by Swihart, JBJ, Brentz and one of the lefties and the cost falls below $150M for 2016, fulfilling the desire to only surpass the line for a single year..  Makes as much sense as anything else this offseason.
 

SumnerH

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JohntheBaptist said:
 
Maybe a nitpick, but no one here saw Sanchez as a talented lotto ticket. He was right there with Lester and Papelbon as our big three pitching prospects at the time.
I viewed Sanchez as a way bigger loss than Hanley-I thought Hanley was selling high on an overhyped, underproductive prospect.

Then I thought Bowden was going to be better than Buchholz.

I listen to scouts a lot more and trust in superficial stats a lot less than I did then. And I don't trust my evaluations of young talent all that much.
 

seantoo

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Jul 16, 2005
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ivanvamp said:
Like basically everyone else on earth, I expect Cespedes to be traded. But if not, Betts could basically play every day as a super sub. It would keep everyone else fresh.
Cespedes will be traded. Middlebrooks will be traded. We now have the positional depth that BC desires. Only SS & catcher do not have a very good back-up right now and it's a matter of time before we sign a back-up at catcher, possibly Ross?. Holt who will likely back-up the middle IF positions with Betts filling in at 2B if Pedrioa misses any significant time. Hanley plays LF and backs up 3rd base. Betts plays RF and backs up 2nd. Castillo plays CF. Victorino backs up CF and RF as your 4th OF. Nava backs up LF and is your 3rd option at 1B. Craig backs up first base and is your 3rd option at LF.
Napoli plays 1B and only is traded if we don't contend.
 

rajendra82

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67WasBest said:
Based on current rumors, this could become known as an "Evolutionary Year" for the Sox.  A year the Gorilla evolved into talent and the Beckett / Lowell trade is reversed.
If both Anibal Sanchez and Hanley Ramirez return, I would call it a Primal Reversion year.
 

phenweigh

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I think it's incorrect to say the Sox want to trade player X or player Y.  They will make the trade(s) that will most improve the Red Sox, while trying to address short term needs while keeping long term flexibility.
 
That being said, it seems to me that Cespedes is the most likely to go, assuming they find a trading partner willing to give reasonable value in return.  Hanley in LF and Yoenis in RF has the potential to be a pretty lousy defensive outfield and doesn't leave room for both Mookie and Rusney as starting outfielders.  Personally, I hate the idea of using Mookie as a super sub.  Bouncing around defensively is not the way to maximize his odds of a successful transition to MLB.
 

ivanvamp

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Jul 18, 2005
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Hanley vs. Cespedes offensively, last 3 seasons:
 
Cespedes:  .263/.316/.464/.780, 116 ops+
Hanley:  .285/.356/.486/.841, 133 ops+
 
That's a pretty nice offensive upgrade for LF.  And as much as I like Cespedes' arm, it doesn't play quite as well in left.  And otherwise, I would think that Hanley would play the position roughly as well as Cespedes.
 

Drek717

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phenweigh said:
I think it's incorrect to say the Sox want to trade player X or player Y.  They will make the trade(s) that will most improve the Red Sox, while trying to address short term needs while keeping long term flexibility.
 
That being said, it seems to me that Cespedes is the most likely to go, assuming they find a trading partner willing to give reasonable value in return.  Hanley in LF and Yoenis in RF has the potential to be a pretty lousy defensive outfield and doesn't leave room for both Mookie and Rusney as starting outfielders.  Personally, I hate the idea of using Mookie as a super sub.  Bouncing around defensively is not the way to maximize his odds of a successful transition to MLB.
I see no way they use Mookie as a super sub where he only gets to play a few times a week.  I think it is far more likely that if no one gives them a good offer for Cespedes that they go into 2015 with Betts back in AAA, stalling his service time and letting him fine tune against AAA pitching (which he barely faced last season).  I mean, the club has said they want to avoid rushing players along like they did last year.  Inking Betts in as a starter is doing exactly that.
 

ivanvamp

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Jul 18, 2005
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Drek717 said:
I see no way they use Mookie as a super sub where he only gets to play a few times a week.  I think it is far more likely that if no one gives them a good offer for Cespedes that they go into 2015 with Betts back in AAA, stalling his service time and letting him fine tune against AAA pitching (which he barely faced last season).  I mean, the club has said they want to avoid rushing players along like they did last year.  Inking Betts in as a starter is doing exactly that.
 
I don't think it would be "rushing" Betts, given that in his time with Boston (52 games) last year he put up really good numbers (128 ops+), which weren't based in luck, but rather a consistently solid approach that matched what he's done in the minors.  
 
The kid appears to be perfectly ready for the majors.  Now.
 

SoxFanForsyth

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ivanvamp said:
Hanley vs. Cespedes offensively, last 3 seasons:
 
Cespedes:  .263/.316/.464/.780, 116 ops+
Hanley:  .285/.356/.486/.841, 133 ops+
 
That's a pretty nice offensive upgrade for LF.  And as much as I like Cespedes' arm, it doesn't play quite as well in left.  And otherwise, I would think that Hanley would play the position roughly as well as Cespedes.
Plus if Hanley can field the position cleanly then the arm factor doesn't matter. Cespedes always fumbles around with the ball then gets bailed out by his arm
 

Drek717

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ivanvamp said:
 
I don't think it would be "rushing" Betts, given that in his time with Boston (52 games) last year he put up really good numbers (128 ops+), which weren't based in luck, but rather a consistently solid approach that matched what he's done in the minors.  
 
The kid appears to be perfectly ready for the majors.  Now.
Bogaerts looked ready in his cup of coffee and the playoffs last year.  Through the first couple months he looked super ready.  Then he hit a brick wall that lasted most of the summer.
 
Do I think they view that as something they need to do with Betts?  No, he has shown himself to be more or less immune to the pit falls of moving up levels most other players face.  That said, if no team is willing to pay a reasonable price for Cespedes it is all too easy for the Sox to send him back to AAA and let him play the outfield every day until the inevitable injury, performance collapse, or trade occurs.
 
The argument that the Sox NEED to move Cespedes post-haste and have lost leverage in negotiations as a result of adding Hanley just doesn't hold up when they have options to burn for Betts.
 

Hank Scorpio

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Changing gears here a bit... I'm going to post some slash lines that caught my eye this morning.
 
.000/.067/.000/.067 (15 PA)
.091/.167/.091/.258 (12 PA)
.182/.231/.182/.413 (13 PA)
.077/.143/.077/.220 (14 PA)
.083/.083/.083/.167 (12 PA)
 
.125/.300/.125/.425 (10 PA)
.194/.265/.226/.491 (34 PA)
.250/.273/.375/.648 (34 PA)
.281/.303/.375/.675 (33 PA)
.320/.320/.440/.760 (25 PA)
 
.200/.467/.500/.967 (15 PA)
.375/.375/.375/.750 (8 PA)
.308/.400/.846/1.246 (15 PA)
.231/.286/.308/.593 (14 PA)
.353/.368/.529/.898 (19 PA)
.308/.357/.538/.896 (14 PA)
.182/.167/.182/.348 (12 PA)
.200/.182/.400/.582 (12 PA)
 
The three groups, from top to bottom, are Xander Bogaerts slash lines in AL/NL West Stadiums, AL/NL East Stadiums and AL/NL Central Stadiums. Red OPS represents the bottom third of his road performance, yellow is his middle third, and green is his top third.
 
Granted, these are all just a bunch of small samples, and results are heavily skewed by each opponents pitching and how the match-ups fall in any given series, but it's a bit interesting that Bogaerts was a far, far worse hitter on the road against West Division teams. Even given that his entire middle of the season was terrible, I have to wonder if the MLB travel schedule, especially west coast swings, was difficult for him to adjust to.
 

Devizier

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ivanvamp said:
Hanley vs. Cespedes offensively, last 3 seasons:
 
Cespedes:  .263/.316/.464/.780, 116 ops+
Hanley:  .285/.356/.486/.841, 133 ops+
 
That's a pretty nice offensive upgrade for LF.  And as much as I like Cespedes' arm, it doesn't play quite as well in left.  And otherwise, I would think that Hanley would play the position roughly as well as Cespedes.
 
Keeping in mind that Hanley can back up SS and possibly 3B if needed. This isn't a Napoli-at-1B situation.
 

jacklamabe65

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67WasBest said:
Based on current rumors, this could become known as an "Evolutionary Year" for the Sox.  A year the Gorilla evolved into talent and the Beckett / Lowell trade is reversed.
 
1) Lester rumors indicate a return to Boston - assume done in Boston's favor
2) Sanchez on the block rumors from Detroit, trade Cespedes, Mujica and Cecchini for Sanchez
3) Sign Miller
4) Sign a 2nd catcher, or just use Butler until Swihart is ready
5) San Diego rumor for Tyson Ross - Renaudo, WMB and Coyle for Ross
 
Lester, Sanchez, Ross Buchholz and Kelly - 53M
Victorino RF, Pedroia 2B, Ortiz DH, Ramirez LF, Sandoval 3B, Napoli 1B, Castillo CF, Bogaerts, Vazquez, Betts, Holt, Weeks, 2nd Catcher - 109M
Uehara, Miller, Tazawa, Badenhop RDLR, Workman, Layne, Wilson - 22M
 
That could be had for $184M
 
Victorino, Napoli, 2nd Catcher and likely Buchholz, move on after the season and are replaced by Swihart, JBJ, Brentz and one of the lefties and the cost falls below $150M for 2016, fulfilling the desire to only surpass the line for a single year..  Makes as much sense as anything else this offseason.
I will sign onto this, for sure.
 

turnthe2

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The Marlins are looking for a 1B. Craig could possibly fit that hole. Is there is a possible match there either for prospects or a possible starting pitcher (doubtful)? I know it would be a tough sell for Miami and selling low for the Sox but it could free up a roster spot and possibly salary. My only concern is that he would be good to hold on to in case Napoli has a DL stint or to fill the 1B void post-2015 when Napoli is a free agent.
 

67WasBest

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Hank Scorpio said:
Changing gears here a bit... I'm going to post some slash lines that caught my eye this morning.
 
.000/.067/.000/.067 (15 PA)
.091/.167/.091/.258 (12 PA)
.182/.231/.182/.413 (13 PA)
.077/.143/.077/.220 (14 PA)
.083/.083/.083/.167 (12 PA)
 
.125/.300/.125/.425 (10 PA)
.194/.265/.226/.491 (34 PA)
.250/.273/.375/.648 (34 PA)
.281/.303/.375/.675 (33 PA)
.320/.320/.440/.760 (25 PA)
 
.200/.467/.500/.967 (15 PA)
.375/.375/.375/.750 (8 PA)
.308/.400/.846/1.246 (15 PA)
.231/.286/.308/.593 (14 PA)
.353/.368/.529/.898 (19 PA)
.308/.357/.538/.896 (14 PA)
.182/.167/.182/.348 (12 PA)
.200/.182/.400/.582 (12 PA)
 
The three groups, from top to bottom, are Xander Bogaerts slash lines in AL/NL West Stadiums, AL/NL East Stadiums and AL/NL Central Stadiums. Red OPS represents the bottom third of his road performance, yellow is his middle third, and green is his top third.
 
Granted, these are all just a bunch of small samples, and results are heavily skewed by each opponents pitching and how the match-ups fall in any given series, but it's a bit interesting that Bogaerts was a far, far worse hitter on the road against West Division teams. Even given that his entire middle of the season was terrible, I have to wonder if the MLB travel schedule, especially west coast swings, was difficult for him to adjust to.
I was about 21 the first time I went to the west coast and it took me a few days to adjust.  It is entirely possible he hasn't learned how to travel 3 time zones yet.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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turnthe2 said:
The Marlins are looking for a 1B. Craig could possibly fit that hole.
 
Here's how I think that conversation would go:
 
BC: "Hi Dan, hear you're looking for a 1B. We've got Allen Craig here, and we love him as a player but we might not be able to get him enough starts--any interest there?"
DJ: "Let's talk about Napoli."
BC: "Well, we're really committed to Napoli at first for next year, but you know, we're talking about a guy in Craig who hit over .300 for three years in a row, and we think he'll be healthy."
DJ: "Good, then he should slot in nicely at first for you. What do you want for Napoli?"
BC: "So let's talk for a second about what a Craig deal might look like...."
DJ: <click>
 

67WasBest

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jacklamabe65 said:
I will sign onto this, for sure.
BC has a plan with Lester as option 1.  From there, the options are considerable.  I don't put anything out of the question for 2015, as long as they can return to below the line spending in 2016.  They could fill just the 2 top of the rotation spots, or they could use their redundancy to load up on 1 year guys and gain draft picks next year.  I like the 2nd choice because they would only be trading guys who are truly redundant in the organization and gain picks that may provide future value.
 
If they could use some combination of Cespedes, Craig, Victorino, Napoli, Cecchini, WMB, Webster, Workman, Renaudo, Mujica (assuming a Miller deal) to obtain any two of Zimmerman, Fister, Ross, Cashner, Iwakuma, Kazmir, Kennedy, Latos, Leake, in addition to Lester, they would be in superior shape. .There's also Sanchez and Hamels as options.
 

turnthe2

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Savin Hillbilly said:
 
Here's how I think that conversation would go:
 
BC: "Hi Dan, hear you're looking for a 1B. We've got Allen Craig here, and we love him as a player but we might not be able to get him enough starts--any interest there?"
DJ: "Let's talk about Napoli."
BC: "Well, we're really committed to Napoli at first for next year, but you know, we're talking about a guy in Craig who hit over .300 for three years in a row, and we think he'll be healthy."
DJ: "Good, then he should slot in nicely at first for you. What do you want for Napoli?"
BC: "So let's talk for a second about what a Craig deal might look like...."
DJ: <click>
 
 
Per Rotoworld, AC has the following salaries: 2015: $5.5 million, 2016: $9 million, 2017: $11 million, 2018: $13 million ($1 million buyout)
 
Here's Napoli: 2015: $16 million, 2016: Free Agent
 
So you suspect that the free spending Marlins run by Loria are going to prefer taking on $16 million dollars? I'm not seeing it.......
 
Like I said, it's a tough sell but not as tough as say Ryan Howard.
 

glennhoffmania

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67WasBest said:
Based on current rumors, this could become known as an "Evolutionary Year" for the Sox.  A year the Gorilla evolved into talent and the Beckett / Lowell trade is reversed.
 
1) Lester rumors indicate a return to Boston - assume done in Boston's favor
2) Sanchez on the block rumors from Detroit, trade Cespedes, Mujica and Cecchini for Sanchez
3) Sign Miller
4) Sign a 2nd catcher, or just use Butler until Swihart is ready
5) San Diego rumor for Tyson Ross - Renaudo, WMB and Coyle for Ross
 
Lester, Sanchez, Ross Buchholz and Kelly - 53M
Victorino RF, Pedroia 2B, Ortiz DH, Ramirez LF, Sandoval 3B, Napoli 1B, Castillo CF, Bogaerts, Vazquez, Betts, Holt, Weeks, 2nd Catcher - 109M
Uehara, Miller, Tazawa, Badenhop RDLR, Workman, Layne, Wilson - 22M
 
That could be had for $184M
 
Victorino, Napoli, 2nd Catcher and likely Buchholz, move on after the season and are replaced by Swihart, JBJ, Brentz and one of the lefties and the cost falls below $150M for 2016, fulfilling the desire to only surpass the line for a single year..  Makes as much sense as anything else this offseason.
 
Why would Detroit want Cecchini?  I don't see how that deal makes any sense for them.
 

67WasBest

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glennhoffmania said:
 
Why would Detroit want Cecchini?  I don't see how that deal makes any sense for them.
Reports said they would prefer Castellanos in the outfield.  That deal would let them play Cespedes in CF, Castellanos in RF and Martinez in LF with Cecchini filling third and Mujica adding depth to thier woeful bullpen.  They could then use their funds (because all their lineup holes are filled) to extend Price or Porcello, or try to retain Scherzer.
 

E5 Yaz

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67WasBest said:
Reports said they would prefer Castellanos in the outfield.  That deal would let them play Cespedes in CF, Castellanos in RF and Martinez in LF with Cecchini filling third and Mujica adding depth to thier woeful bullpen.  They could then use their funds (because all their lineup holes are filled) to extend Price or Porcello, or try to retain Scherzer.
 
Yes, Cecchini fits in Detroit, San Diego ... or even SF at this point
 

glennhoffmania

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Maybe I overvalue Sanchez, but I wouldn't make that move if I'm Detroit.  For a pitcher of his caliber with a fairly reasonable contract I'd expect him to cost more.  But if something like that is on the table I'd love to see Boston pull the trigger.
 

Saints Rest

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phenweigh said:
 Personally, I hate the idea of using Mookie as a super sub.  Bouncing around defensively is not the way to maximize his odds of a successful transition to MLB.
 
Drek717 said:
I see no way they use Mookie as a super sub where he only gets to play a few times a week.  
 
Devizier said:
Keeping in mind that Hanley can back up SS and possibly 3B if needed. This isn't a Napoli-at-1B situation.
 
So if the roster (not including pitchers) looked like this:
  • Betts
  • Bogaerts
  • Castillo
  • Cespedes
  • Craig/Nava (I see these guys as essentially interchangeable until Craig proves in ST that he is either hurt or back to 2012 levels)
  • Holt/Weeks (probably a ST competition, for the rest of this post, I'll simply refer to them as UIF)
  • Napoli
  • Ortiz
  • Pedroia
  • Ramirez
  • Sandoval
  • Vazquez
  • Backup Catcher 
That's 13 slots (assuming 12 pitchers as the norm).
 
Betts could play every day (140-150 games) in RF/CF (I'm still not sure which one is his "normal" spot relative to Castillo) with the following subbing patterns (I'm ignoring catcher to shorten the post a bit as that position seems unlikely to affect or be affected by the other positions):
 
DAY 1:
  • 1B - Nap
  • 2B - Pedey
  • SS - Bogaerts
  • 3B - Panda
  • LF - Hanley
  • CF/RF - Castillo/Betts
  • DH - Ortiz
  • Catcher
  • Bench:  Nava/Craig, Cespedes, UIF, BC
DAY 2:
  • 1B - Nap
  • 2B - Pedey
  • SS - Bogaerts
  • 3B - Panda
  • LF - Cespedes
  • CF/RF - Castillo/Betts
  • DH - Ortiz
  • Catcher
  • Bench:  Nava/Craig, Hanley, UIF, BC
DAY 3:
  • 1B - Nap
  • 2B - Pedey
  • SS - Bogaerts
  • 3B - Hanley 
  • LF - Cespedes
  • CF/RF - Castillo/Betts
  • DH - Ortiz
  • Catcher
  • Bench:  Nava/Craig, Panda, UIF, BC
DAY 4:
  • 1B - Nap
  • 2B - Pedey
  • SS - Hanley
  • 3B - Panda
  • LF - Cespedes
  • CF/RF - Castillo/Betts
  • DH - Ortiz
  • Catcher
  • Bench:  Nava/Craig, Bogaerts, UIF, BC
DAY 5:
  • 1B - Nap
  • 2B - Pedey
  • SS - Bogaerts
  • 3B - Panda
  • LF - Hanley
  • CF - Betts
  • RF - Cespedes
  • DH - Ortiz
  • Catcher
  • Bench:  Castillo, Nava/Craig, UIF, BC
DAY 6:
  • 1B - Nava/Craig
  • 2B - Pedey
  • SS - Bogaerts
  • 3B - Panda
  • LF - Hanley
  • CF - Castillo
  • RF - Cespedes
  • DH - Ortiz
  • Catcher
  • Bench: Betts, Napoli, UIF, BC
So over that random 6-game stretch, with no consideration for pitching match ups, each of the following guys plays 5 days and gets one day off: 
  • Betts
  • Bogaerts
  • Castillo
  • Cespedes
  • Napoli
  • Ramirez
  • Sandoval
Ortiz and Pedey play all 6 games.
Nava/Craig gets one game.
UIF gets none, but this person could easily see time as a late inning person/pinchrunner/defensive replacement.  He would likely also be Pedroia's, sub on the rare occasion he allows Farrell to take him out for a day.  
Ortiz would see most of his time off in NL parks, but when he needs a day off otherwise, any of the core 7 could take a day at DH.

Bottom line, is that they don't NEED to trade Cespedes and they don't NEED to use Betts as a super-sup, multi-position, swiss-army knife to make it work, because Ramirez offers some positional flexibility.

It also means that they could re-think who the last two players on the team are -- the positional flexibility of the aforementioned 7 (and I'm not even considering Betts as a 2B, Bogaerts at 3B, or Panda at 1B), means that those last two players could be more specialized.  Maybe one of them is JBJ as a defensive OF specialist.  Maybe one of them is a true speed-burner for pinch-running.  Or one could be Vic.  Or they could keep BOTH Craig and Nava, or BOTH Holt and Weeks.
 
That said, it does mean that three from Victorino, Nava, Craig, Holt, and Weeks will need to go, with at least a couple still having options left.  But I could also see the FO waiting until the end of ST to see how things shake out.  
 

67WasBest

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glennhoffmania said:
Maybe I overvalue Sanchez, but I wouldn't make that move if I'm Detroit.  For a pitcher of his caliber with a fairly reasonable contract I'd expect him to cost more.  But if something like that is on the table I'd love to see Boston pull the trigger.
I would think they could ask for another piece and BC adding same, but not a high value piece.  The rumor that he is available and knowing how many holes they have to fill is what made this look like a reasonable possibility.  They would have a hard time filling 4 roster holes with anyone else.
 

Drek717

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Saints Rest: That is all great in theory, but I have a hard time believing the Sox would actually implement that.  They'll want Hanley to focus on hitting and playing LF.  They'll want Betts focused on playing one position as well.  Maybe they get creative, but I'm doubtful.
 

67WasBest

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Drek717 said:
Saints Rest: That is all great in theory, but I have a hard time believing the Sox would actually implement that.  They'll want Hanley to focus on hitting and playing LF.  They'll want Betts focused on playing one position as well.  Maybe they get creative, but I'm doubtful.
I can see them playing Victorino a a starter if he's healthy and have believed a Hanley, Castillo, Victorino outfield is most likely, with Betts and Holt providing above league average work off the bench.  They'll need ST and the start of the season to re-establish his value.  Once established, they can decide if they want to run that way all year, or trade him for a future piece and let Betts take over full time.  I would not see Betts at 450 at bats and playing super sub as a waste of his skills; I would see it as maximizing his skills and providing a nice easy, no pressure means to take a full time position in 2016.  He's on a suddenly extremely talented team, no need to rush him, but he's also done in the minors.
 

FanSinceBoggs

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I would not trade Napoli even though it would free up a lot of money for 2015.  Napoli's combination of strong defense, power, and ability to walk is too valuable to lose.  The Red Sox just added a lot of offense and I would hate to see the Red Sox minimize the impact of such additions by trading Napoli.  Moreover, if Napoli has a big year, kind of like Cruz for the Orioles last season, they can probably get a draft pick for him after the season.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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With guys like Craig and Vic, the team will need to wait until spring to see if they're healthy before trying to move them.  Otherwise, they're selling at a greatly reduced price.  So, another reason why Cespedes is the likely one to get traded now.
 

jasail

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67WasBest said:
I can see them playing Victorino a a starter if he's healthy and have believed a Hanley, Castillo, Victorino outfield is most likely, with Betts and Holt providing above league average work off the bench.  They'll need ST and the start of the season to re-establish his value.  Once established, they can decide if they want to run that way all year, or trade him for a future piece and let Betts take over full time.  I would not see Betts at 450 at bats and playing super sub as a waste of his skills; I would see it as maximizing his skills and providing a nice easy, no pressure means to take a full time position in 2016.  He's on a suddenly extremely talented team, no need to rush him, but he's also done in the minors.
 
It would be creative for them to use Betts in this capacity and then move Hanley all over the diamond in a sub-role to compensate. However, IMO, it's a pretty risk prone strategy and the Sox have demonstrated a preference for managing player expectations game to game in a conservative manner. So, I'd imagine if they're going to go in the direction of starting Victorino, Betts starts off the season in AAA play RF and getting regular ABs, Nava then gets starts against RHP in LF and RF and WMB gets the 25th roster spot and gets starts at 3B against very good LHP. 
 

grimshaw

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Does anyone think they'll have 7 right handed hitters in their lineup to start the season or if it even matters?  I can see maybe Swihart by the middle of the year but that is a big question mark.  They have added Sandoval but he is supplanting Holt/Cecchini who also bat left.  Or perhaps they are looking at it as needing to replace Middlebrooks instead.  I'm not saying they need help offensively, just that it would be unusual balance wise.
 
I'm going to say no and still expect a left handed hitting OF or 1B before the dust settles.  I'll list OF who are gettable first and bold who I think are good targets.
 
-Parra
-J Bruce
-Ben Revere
-Nick Markakis
-Adam Eaton
-Josh Reddick
-Andre Ethier
-Colby Rasmus
-Peter Bourjos
-Angel Pagan
-Michael Saunders
-Nori Aoki
-Ben Zobrist
 
Here are the no ways/huge stretches:
-Cole Kalhaus
-Christian Yelich
-Billy Hamilton
-Leonys Martin
-Bryce Harper
 
As for 1B
 
Gettable:
Swisher (toast)
E Hosmer
G Jones
L  Morrison
J Morneau
L Duda
 
No way/huge stretch
 
Carlos Santana
Freddie Freeman
Anthony Rizzo
 
In house possibilities - Nava, Brentz, Travis Shaw, Cecchini.
 

SoxFanForsyth

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grimshaw said:
Does anyone think they'll have 7 right handed hitters in their lineup to start the season or if it even matters?  I can see maybe Swihart by the middle of the year but that is a big question mark.  They have added Sandoval but is supplanting Holt/Cecchini who also bat left.
 
I'm going to say no and still expect a left handed hitting OF or 1B before the dust settles.  I'll list OF who are gettable first and bold who I think are good targets.
 
-Parra
-J Bruce
-Ben Revere
-Nick Markakis
-Adam Eaton
-Josh Reddick
-Andre Ethier
-Colby Rasmus
-Peter Bourjos
-Angel Pagan
-Michael Saunders
-Nori Aoki
-Ben Zobrist
 
Here are the no ways/huge stretches:
-Cole Kalhaus
-Christian Yelich
-Billy Hamilton
-Leonys Martin
-Bryce Harper
 
As for 1B
 
Gettable:
Swisher (toast)
E Hosmer
G Jones
L  Morrison
J Morneau
L Duda
 
No way/huge stretch
 
Carlos Santana
Freddie Freeman
Anthony Rizzo
 
In house possibilities - Nava, Brentz, Travis Shaw, Cecchini.
Brentz is a RHH.

I don't think they touch their offense.

Just because you have a lot of RHH doesn't mean you're ineffective vs RHP. The Sox have a lot of RHH that don't have much of a split at all. Most of then hit righties just fine.
 

jasail

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FanSinceBoggs said:
I would not trade Napoli even though it would free up a lot of money for 2015.  Napoli's combination of strong defense, power, and ability to walk is too valuable to lose.  The Red Sox just added a lot of offense and I would hate to see the Red Sox minimize the impact of such additions by trading Napoli.  Moreover, if Napoli has a big year, kind of like Cruz for the Orioles last season, they can probably get a draft pick for him after the season.
 
The difference in return from Napoli to Cespedes would have to be substantial for me to trade Napoli. Not that these are perfect examples, but to use a loose analogy:
 
Lets say the Sox can acquire Mat Latos or a similar arm for a package of Cespedes and an upper level non-blue chip prospect, e.g., Webster or just Napoli, I'm packing Allen's bags. And the same can be said for Anthony, Matt, Garin, Deven or Coyle. 
 
However, if the Sox can acquire Cashner or Cueto for Cespedes plus an upper level blue chip prospect, e.g., Owens, and an upper level non-blue chip, e.g., Webster or Napoli plus two upper level non-blue chip prospects, e.g., Garin and Barnes, I'd consider sending Napoli.  
 

sean1562

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there is zero chance the white sox trade adam eaton to us for our scraps. thats not gonna happen
 

grimshaw

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sean1562 said:
there is zero chance the white sox trade adam eaton to us for our scraps. thats not gonna happen
Gettable means the Red Sox could acquire him.  Not that he's worth scraps.  Where did I write that?
Have you looked at his stats so far?  2.7 WAR last year.  Projected for 2.2 this year.  A career wRC+ of 106.  Slightly above average defender.  No power (1 home run last year) 26 in December.
I get that he's cost controlled but jeez, cost controlled doesn't mean franchise changing.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
SoxFanForsyth said:
Just because you have a lot of RHH doesn't mean you're ineffective vs RHP. The Sox have a lot of RHH that don't have much of a split at all. Most of then hit righties just fine.
 
There was an article on FG a year or two ago (wish I could find it) to the effect that RHH don't tend to have as big platoon splits as LHH because hitters who really struggle against two-thirds of the pitchers they face will probably not make it to the majors in the first place, while a LHH who can't hit LHP can still rack up good enough overall stats to make it by feasting on RHP. With the further point that it doesn't really make sense to talk about righty killers the way we do about lefty killers, because RHP should never be able to breeze through a lineup heavy on same-side hitters the way a LHP can. Made sense to me.
 

Montana Fan

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Speaking of 2015, has anyone done the math predicting the Sox offensive increase (vs 2014) with the upgrades to CF (Rusney), LF (Hanley), RF (Mookie) and 3B (Pablo)?  Seems like it should be pretty significant.
 

sean1562

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grimshaw said:
Gettable means the Red Sox could acquire him.  Not that he's worth scraps.  Where did I write that?
Have you looked at his stats so far?  2.7 WAR last year.  Projected for 2.2 this year.  A career wRC+ of 106.  Slightly above average defender.  No power (1 home run last year) 26 in December.
I get that he's cost controlled but jeez, cost controlled doesn't mean franchise changing.
what else are we gonna use to trade for him? you think they will give us their starting CF for some of our AAA pitchers?Where would we even play him? Last year his wRC+ was 115, he was 25. Maybe he broke out? who should we trade for adam eaton? that team isnt really loaded with OFs. Why are we talking about acquiring more OFs?
 

Fireball Fred

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I'd like to see Cespedes traded, and I'd guess he could bring a decent return for one year at a fair salary. He's established right-handed power, coming off an All-Star season in which he drove in 100 runs and was a Gold Glove finalist. A lot of us don't like his game, but he has obvious strengths, and he can be presented favorably to an acquiring team's fans. 
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
turnthe2 said:
 
 
Per Rotoworld, AC has the following salaries: 2015: $5.5 million, 2016: $9 million, 2017: $11 million, 2018: $13 million ($1 million buyout)
 
Here's Napoli: 2015: $16 million, 2016: Free Agent
 
So you suspect that the free spending Marlins run by Loria are going to prefer taking on $16 million dollars? I'm not seeing it.......
 
Like I said, it's a tough sell but not as tough as say Ryan Howard.
 
If there was anything remotely approaching certainty--like say, a 60/40 chance--that Craig will be even a replacement-level player next year, I might agree with you. But right now he is about as un-bankable as assets get. Nobody's going to give up anything of significant value for him till he can show he's turned it around.
 
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