Well in keeping with the car analogy, unfortunately they didn't insist on the extended warranty (weight clause) that other perspective buyers wanted and settled on the standard 90 day limited warranty because they just HAD to have this well tuned piece of machinery. As pissed as I am over Sandoval's lack of self control/pride/sense of commitment, I blame The Sox for this fiasco. We always hear about the team doing their "due diligence" before making decisions on potential trades or FA acquisitions. The "due diligence" done by many here predicted a continuance of the downward trend that Sandoval was already on. For most of us here this just never made sense.What kind of warranty is there on a "Ferrari"?
I'm done being pissed off; the guy has a problemBanning told the Herald that when Sandoval went home to Venezuela for Christmas in 2011, he gained 21 pounds in 21 days. When Sandoval returned to the Phoenix area, Banning worked hard to keep the Giants -- who were negotiating a new contract for their All-Star -- from seeing him as the pair worked to shed pounds.
"I would go pick him up at a random location, drive him to the facility so that his car wouldn't be there, so if they dropped in, they wouldn't know he was there," Banning told the Herald. "So for about a three-week period, he had the flu; we had every excuse in the world. We were just trying to rip weight off him again. And it ballooned way out of control."
I love this. 90% of the 'weekend warrior, beer league softball playing types' I ever met would not/did not give everything they had for a shot to play at Fenway Park. In my experience, they couldn't even put in the 8-10 hours a week of sacrifice it took to make themselves into decent ballplayers in High School.Dear Pablo Sandoval,
If I have more interest in you having a good career than you do, you should really just go fuck yourself with a rhinoceros.
I mean what the hell? There are millions of people who would kill to have your job and you can't be bothered to keep in shape then demand that you keep your job anyway.
So, really, just fuck off.
Also, go to hell.
And bite me.
And fuck off.
And also die.
Sincerely,
Kiss My Entire Ass
This basically sums it up. Not only is the contract historically bad, he's borderline insulting to all the weekend warrior, beer league softball playing types like myself who would have given anything for a shot to play at Fenway Park. All because he can't stay away from a Twinkie.
I think you've got a good point here, but the counterpoint is that Pablo Sandoval simply has to put down the spoon.I love this. 90% of the 'weekend warrior, beer league softball playing types' I ever met would not/did not give everything they had for a shot to play at Fenway Park. In my experience, they couldn't even put in the 8-10 hours a week of sacrifice it took to make themselves into decent ballplayers in High School.
Even an easy target like Sandoval probably puts in more work toward his craft in one year than most of these "I'd give my left nut to play baseball for a living" mooks did in their entire attempt at a career in baseball.. You don't have to give your left nut. You have to sacrifice and work beyond the capacity of almost everyone else out there, plus have the balls to stand in against a legit fastball. There are very few men who meet those criteria.
Of course, you do have to be blessed with way above average eyesight, reflexes and coordination, and that eliminates almost all of us up front. And the fact that Sandoval - or any MLB player - put in so much work doesn't insulate him from criticism. It just renders much of the criticism meaningless.
This may be a false dichotomy. I strongly suspect the back injury that was the death knell to Sandoval's role as the presumptive starting 3B was due to his weight, as it seemed to come up on an ordinary defensive play. This shoulder issue may be a second time where his weight led to an injury while attempting to play.Pablo Sandoval's former trainer Ethan Banning said Sandoval needs a "baby sitter" to help him watch his weight.
"He needs to be smart enough to say there’s problem," said Banning. "It’s not an exercise thing, it’s an eating thing." Banning worked with Sandoval during the 2010 and 2011 offseasons. According to Banning, Sandoval once gained 21 pounds in just 21 days during a trip home to Venezuela. "He loves to be loved by people," said Banning. "And the way that (Venezuelan) culture connects is through food." We're guessing Sandoval's DL stint has much more to do with his weight problems than his injured shoulder. Sandoval's brother has been in touch with Banning so maybe the two will reconnect.
Factually, a and b are undoubtedly true. But just in sports alone -- where we can assume the resources are available -- failures are common. Look how long it took Hamilton to get right, and even that didn't last. Steve Howe never did. Or closer to the issue at hand -- Mel Turpin. Being "aware of it," and acknowledging that its an issue that requires professional help are two different things. I'm neither a doc or a psych, so the hiding out from the Giants thing may not quite be the same as those who hide food, but it sounded distressingly similar.I think you've got a good point here, but the counterpoint is that Pablo Sandoval simply has to put down the spoon.
(I don't say that to minimize what is obviously a serious problem, but a) Sandoval is aware of it, and b) he has the resources to deal with it, even if it required having Josh Hamilton-like intervention and monitoring.)
I think this is right. The trainer's comments imply that this is really a clinical issue rather than some generic, entitled lazy-ass superstar who can't be bothered. Until he recognizes this, making any real progress with him is going to be difficult.I think you've got a good point here, but the counterpoint is that Pablo Sandoval simply has to put down the spoon.
(I don't say that to minimize what is obviously a serious problem, but a) Sandoval is aware of it, and b) he has the resources to deal with it, even if it required having Josh Hamilton-like intervention and monitoring.)
I hope its more the fomer than the latter, but my cynicism knows few bounds.Just listened to Banning on WEEI. He seems genuinely concerned and wants to help, and naturally by extension, get paid again.
FWIW via Tony Massarotti:
Tony Massarotti @TonyMassarotti 2h2 hours ago
FWIW, hearing that Sandoval may get a second opinion on left shoulder and that [regardless of what's going on with his shoulder] he may actually have surgery [to implant a lap-band]. @985TheSportsHub @cbsboston
Is the underline a cross between a perceptive and prospective buyer, because if so, I like how that would apply in this case . . . .Well in keeping with the car analogy, unfortunately they didn't insist on the extended warranty (weight clause) that other perspective buyers wanted
Vin Baker is another immediate parallel I see. Sad to see people squander their talents without getting the right help but people have to be willing to be helped.Or closer to the issue at hand -- Mel Turpin. Being "aware of it," and acknowledging that its an issue that requires professional help are two different things. I'm neither a doc or a psych, so the hiding out from the Giants thing may not quite be the same as those who hide food, but it sounded distressingly similar.
To paraphrase Henry Wiggin, from here on in, I dont rag Sandoval.
Big weight swings up or down in a short period of time usually have something to do with water weight and not actual fat. When you change your diet heavily in a short period of time, you can put on or take off a lot of retained water. But even if that is half water, it's still a lot of actual fat for that short a period as well.Pablo gaining 21 pounds in 21 days is insane
I'm not sure we know enough to say if this is way, way out of line or simply a guy trying to help his former friend/client.I doubt it's a HIPAA issue or anything (though I suppose it's possible), but am I the only one who thinks Banning is way, way out of line going public with this? To me it's only marginally / semantically better than a doctor coming out and disclosing a guy has a drug problem or a mental health issue.
Utterly ridiculous? If a guy comes to my office and gets diagnosed with an eating disorder, it would be wildly illegal for me to go on WEEI and disclose that. It's protected health information. The only difference here is the type of license.I'm not sure we know enough to say if this is way, way out of line or simply a guy trying to help his former friend/client.
I can tell you that there is no professional obligation that prevents trainers from talking about their clients, and the comparison you are making is utterly ridiculous, to put it kindly.
A mental condition?Surgery might be the best solution for the Sox: he's on the shelf for the year, and he's got the time to address his problem with food, or get under the wing of a trainer. He's a total loss this year. If he gets it together by next spring, he's playable or tradeable. If he forces the issue this summer, he's done. He could play it like Lackey (although Lackey had a bad arm, not a mental condition) and disappear for a summer, and it might work out.
Yes, unless you can point me to the legal statute that protects the confidentiality between fat guys and their trainers, it's utterly ridiculous.Utterly ridiculous? If a guy comes to my office and gets diagnosed with an eating disorder, it would be wildly illegal for me to go on WEEI and disclose that. It's protected health information. The only difference here is the type of license.
Hell, if this guy was working in an integrated shop where players received medical care in addition to fitness help, it's possible he would have already broken the law, depending on how the information was disclosed and what kind of consents were in place.
I doubt it's a HIPAA issue or anything (though I suppose it's possible), but am I the only one who thinks Banning is way, way out of line going public with this? To me it's only marginally / semantically better than a doctor coming out and disclosing a guy has a drug problem or a mental health issue.
If the "fat guy" is going to a doctor affiliated with trainers the trainer may have the same confidentiality obligations the doctor does.Yes, unless you can point me to the legal statute that protects the confidentiality between fat guys and their trainers, it's utterly ridiculous.
Having said that, you certainly topped yourself by saying "the only difference here is the type of license." (Which makes me want to ask what kind of license you have. A hack license perhaps?)
He doesn't have to be a doctor. He doesn't have to be an employee of a doctor or medical facility.As soon as I see evidence that this trainer was an employee of a medical facility and not just some guy who hung around at the gym, I'll agree.
Otherwise, there's no comparison.
He gave some detail on the regimen for Sandoval: personal chef provided to supply 5 meals a day, plus a couple of shakes. So it did work before. I believe he said he worked with Sandoval for ~ 2 years after he was benched in the WS by the Giants..I bet the Sox wish that trainer had spoken up sooner.
I have no idea what argument you think you are having with me.He doesn't have to be a doctor. He doesn't have to be an employee of a doctor or medical facility.
And the OP did say it was unlikely to implicate HIPAA. That said, if you were going to see "some guy hanging out at the gym" to help you shrink your moobs, do you think it would be cool if he went on TV to brag about it, even if it was legal?
Here is some information on the application of HIPAA to personal trainers if people are interested: http://www.ideafit.com/fitness-library/the-hipaa-effectHe doesn't have to be a doctor. He doesn't have to be an employee of a doctor or medical facility.
And the OP did say it was unlikely to implicate HIPAA. That said, if you were going to see "some guy hanging out at the gym" to help you shrink your moobs, do you think it would be cool if he went on TV to brag about it, even if it was legal?
He's also not diagnosing Sandoval, or commenting on any diagnosis or medical condition. He's merely stating his informed, non-medical, opinion of what's going on. "Panda eats a lot and gained a lot of weight once" is not the same as saying Sandoval has an eating disorder, no matter how few dots you need to connect to get there.I have no idea what argument you think you are having with me.
I never said it was OK. I said we don't know what his motives were. Regardless, it wouldn't be acceptable to me if it were my trainer. But I'd also have no recourse.
What I responded to was the notion that there was no practical difference between the obligations of a medical professional and a personal trainer to keep client information confidential. (The difference was described as marginal or semantic. Which to me is no practical difference.) And unless that trainer is an employee of a healthcare provider, that's false.
If Sandoval needs surgery (as he is seeing Andrews) I would be interested in seeing how he actually injured his shoulder
We most likely wont be getting that info though
WEEIPablo Sandoval spoke to reporters in the dugout on Wednesday afternoon and explained, as best he could, the mysterious left shoulder injury that landed him on the 15-day disabled list, noting he suffered a similar injury in 2011.
“Yesterday I don’t feel nothing weird,” Sandoval said. “This morning I wake up and I can’t even move my arm. That’s why I worry about it.”
Sandoval noted that he suffered a similar injury while swinging a bat in 2011, a season that saw him limited to 117 games, though he was still an All-Star. That injury landed him on the DL.
He’s awaiting further examination before determining what caused this year’s injury, and is unsure he’ll need an MRI.
“[It feels] exactly the same,” Sandoval said. “In ’11, it was part of my shoulder. I don’t know what it’s going to be right now.”
Whether or not HIPAA applies, it's a massive moral problem and a breach of his written code of professional ethics.As soon as I see evidence that this trainer was an employee of a medical facility and not just some guy who hung around at the gym, I'll agree. And that's the key distinction, because even if a patient is referred to a trainer by a doctor, the trainer is not a covered entity unless he's an employee of the office.
As I said, there's no comparison.
https://www.nsca.com/Governance/1.3. Members shall preserve the confidentiality of personal and privileged information of the athlete, client, or the NSCA.
1.4. Members shall not release any information to a third party not involved with the athlete's or client's care without a written release unless required by law.
Thank you.He's also not diagnosing Sandoval, or commenting on any diagnosis or medical condition. He's merely stating his informed, non-medical, opinion of what's going on. "Panda eats a lot and gained a lot of weight once" is not the same as saying Sandoval has an eating disorder, no matter how few dots you need to connect to get there.
A better analogy than a doctor releasing a medical condition would be a former personal assistant coming out and commenting, ostensibly out of concern, on a player's frequent drinking that inhibited his ability to play. Sure, it implies a medical issue that, if one exists and was divulged in another context, would present a legal issue. As applied to the person in question, however, it's probably only one of professional ethics.
When the law is concerned, the source of the data is just as important as the content of the data.
If its the same injury that Adrian Gonzalez had, his "power" will be zapped for a bit after he returnsOn Wednesday he did say it was similar to a shoulder woe that put him on the DL back in 2011. Since it was September of that season with expanded rosters, I don't think he was actually placed on the DL:
WEEI
And as I said, I would have a problem with it. But no, I don't consider it to be similar to a violation of patient confidentiality.Whether or not HIPAA applies, it's a massive moral problem and a breach of his written code of professional ethics.
https://www.nsca.com/Governance/
Banning is an NSCA certified strength and conditioning specialist, and former state director for AZ for the NSCA.
I mean, how much is he actually "disclosing" - that Panda has an eating problem? I think that anyone with two functioning eyeballs could give you that diagnosis. I think the trainer is coming from a point of concern rather than malice - he see's that Panda has played his way out of a job/onto the DL and is advocating that he acknowledge his issue and take care of it, as he has been able to do somewhat in the past. He is also helping Panda by reinforcing his belief that it is not an issue of attitude/lack of working out effort but a deeper problem tied to culture, his personality and inability to be honest with himself....I doubt it's a HIPAA issue or anything (though I suppose it's possible), but am I the only one who thinks Banning is way, way out of line going public with this? To me it's only marginally / semantically better than a doctor coming out and disclosing a guy has a drug problem or a mental health issue.
Of some note is back in 2011 the left shoulder injury impaired his righty swing more than his lefty swing.If its the same injury that Adrian Gonzalez had, his "power" will be zapped for a bit after he returns
If Sandoval needs surgery (as he is seeing Andrews) I would be interested in seeing how he actually injured his shoulder
We most likely wont be getting that info though
I agree that its probably out of concern.I mean, how much is he actually "disclosing" - that Panda has an eating problem? I think that anyone with two functioning eyeballs could give you that diagnosis. I think the trainer is coming from a point of concern rather than malice - he see's that Panda has played his way out of a job/onto the DL and is advocating that he acknowledge his issue and take care of it, as he has been able to do somewhat in the past. He is also helping Panda by reinforcing his belief that it is not an issue of attitude/lack of working out effort but a deeper problem tied to culture, his personality and inability to be honest with himself....
I think details like "21 pounds in 21 days" and hiding him from the Giants during contract negotiations are troublesome.I mean, how much is he actually "disclosing" - that Panda has an eating problem?
suggests it is some kind of violation, if not of HIPAA. But like HIPAA, I doubt the NSCA code of ethics provides a private right of action, so there's not much recourse for Sandoval either way. (Not that he is or should be looking for one)1.3. Members shall preserve the confidentiality of personal and privileged information of the athlete, client, or the NSCA.
1.4. Members shall not release any information to a third party not involved with the athlete's or client's care without a written release unless required by law.
So, I guess the short answer to my original question is, "Yes, you're the only one." Which is fine.I mean, how much is he actually "disclosing" - that Panda has an eating problem? I think that anyone with two functioning eyeballs could give you that diagnosis. I think the trainer is coming from a point of concern rather than malice - he see's that Panda has played his way out of a job/onto the DL and is advocating that he acknowledge his issue and take care of it, as he has been able to do somewhat in the past. He is also helping Panda by reinforcing his belief that it is not an issue of attitude/lack of working out effort but a deeper problem tied to culture, his personality and inability to be honest with himself....
The last game he played in, he made a diving stop toward the line - he was shown on camera afterward rubbing his left shoulder and looking quite uncomfortable.If Sandoval needs surgery (as he is seeing Andrews) I would be interested in seeing how he actually injured his shoulder