Trading for Starting Pitching
- Thread starter ivanvamp
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He's still very good which means he's still moveable. And they wouldn't exactly be getting bupkus for him either.sean1562 said:
I'm basing the rumors on the 14 year old kid, what they could get in return for Werth, how they have 2, in-their-prime pitchers, as well as a SS to re-sign next year, and what they do with their AAA OF prospects.
How else do they clear payroll?
Hopefully, Cespedes will be part of an off season trade package. However, I think it's worth noting that Cespedes' one year, no qualifying offer contract might have some value come spring training. If anyone loses an outfielder to a serious injury, then he's the perfect guy to pick up for a year.
Rovin Romine said:
Nava and Victorino would have more value in spring training. Cespedes is a middle of the order bat you plan your season around. You will probably get less in Spring Training since teams will be more will to trade MLB ready SP now than in Spring Training.
To your point Tom, do you think the Sox FO place an insurance value on keeping a Cespedes into Spring Training for Ortiz and/or Napoli? Not that Cespedes would play 1B, but the flexibility in having him around with Panda and Hanley seems greater than not. If he ends up part of a package for good SP, obviously we have to roll the dice.TomRicardo said:
Werth has a more limited market than Cespedes. I could imagine him as a fit in SF — he seems like a classic Sabean acquisition — or Seattle, who is almost as left handed as Boston is right handed. A Cano-Werth-Seager 3-4-5 is worth considering.
But moving from Werth to Cespedes is basically forgoing 100 points of OBP. You'd have to really want to shed payroll; sending Werth to Seattle for Iwakuma, acquiring Cespedes (along with a prospect or three) from Boston for Zimmermann, and reallocating Werth's money towards extending Fister might not be a terrible play for the Nationals.
But moving from Werth to Cespedes is basically forgoing 100 points of OBP. You'd have to really want to shed payroll; sending Werth to Seattle for Iwakuma, acquiring Cespedes (along with a prospect or three) from Boston for Zimmermann, and reallocating Werth's money towards extending Fister might not be a terrible play for the Nationals.
TomRicardo said:
True. My point was that Cespedes is good enough to help a team's lineup. I see him as a #5 hitter on a good team, and a #3/4 hitter on a poor team. Any given team might prefer more certainty than Cespedes' contract offers this off season - he's a rental. But that same team might favor that rental as a replacement for injury. I don't know if Cespedes lands a SP at that point, but his prospect value might be pretty high. Put it this way - if you *had* to suddenly trade for an OF/bat to maintain your window, would you trade for Cespedes or Kemp?
As Hurst points out (I didn't think of this), it might make sense to hold onto him given Ortiz/Napoli. Although I think that might be why they send Craig to AAA instead of selling low on him.
That 40 man is picking up a lot of question mark players.
that trade makes them worse. replacing werth with cespedes and iwakuma with zimmermann makes them a worse team next year. there would need to be prospects with cespedes and they will have little interest in any of our AAA arms. i really do not see them doing anything that is not them trading for a 2B. Maybe they try for Howie Kendrick, but maybe they sign Jose Fernandez when he becomes availablenvalvo said:
The kid who broke the Hanley signing first is saying that the team is exploring trades involving Cespedes and Bogaerts. It seems to be contingent on Lester failing to sign here, however, so circumstances may change. And supposedly Lester has a deadline of Wednesday to accept the offer, which is said to be for 6 years/$130-140M. I'm getting nervous now.
I know that kid has had a good week, but Cespedes to Washington followed by a Werth deal just doesn't pass the smell test.
Is anyone else concerned about Iwakuma? He had a 103 ERA+ last year while Safeco Field had a 92 rating in pitching for park factours. Looking at his splits for Fenway isn't super awe-inspiring either, although it is true he's only pitched twice--so it's a SSS.
We are definitely trading an important piece for pitching - in descending order of probability Cespedes, Betts, Napoli.
The recent declared readiness of Cespedes to play right field narrows his lead in the traceability sweepstakes. Who is a likely candidate to trade a #2 or better for Napoli + two prospects?
The recent declared readiness of Cespedes to play right field narrows his lead in the traceability sweepstakes. Who is a likely candidate to trade a #2 or better for Napoli + two prospects?
i meant the cuban 2B. they really only need a 2B. they arent gonna sign moncada but the could sign fernandez or hector olivera without trading anybody. it makes more sense for them than any trade proposal i have seen on this board. i follow the nationals quite closely since i am from the dc area and most of the trades i have seen on this board would not be looked favorably upon by any nationals fan that i knowopes said:
sean1562 said:
These are good points; they don't need salary relief badly enough to downgrade a roster that is the overwhelming favorite for the NL East title. I guess it isn't happening.
Since I can't have Cueto then I pick
Iwakuma - 15-9, 3.52 era, 1.05 whip, 154 k AND
Samardzija - 7-13, 2.99 era, 1.07 whip, 202 k
Iwakuma - 15-9, 3.52 era, 1.05 whip, 154 k AND
Samardzija - 7-13, 2.99 era, 1.07 whip, 202 k
Speculation on Cespedes's trade value should include the fact that, whatever his game and contract limitations, he's someone who can be presented to a fan base as a significant acquisition - past HR Derby winner coming off a 100-RBI All-Star season. In a deal for an established pitcher, he might therefore be included with one or more prospects to create a more palatable package.
Porcello?????
Jake Wesley MLB retweeted
Frank Pimentel @FrankBostonTank · 31m 31 minutes ago
Sources: #RedSox have talked with the #Tigers about a possible trade for Yoenis Céspedes. Hearing Rick Porcello interests Boston. #MLB
Jake Wesley MLB retweeted
Frank Pimentel @FrankBostonTank · 31m 31 minutes ago Sources: #RedSox have talked with the #Tigers about a possible trade for Yoenis Céspedes. Hearing Rick Porcello interests Boston. #MLB
Sanchez?????
Frank Pimentel @FrankBostonTank · 7m 7 minutes ago
Source also indicated that Anibal Sanchez has been linked to trade talks. Could be another possible #RedSox reunion.
Frank Pimentel @FrankBostonTank · 7m 7 minutes ago Source also indicated that Anibal Sanchez has been linked to trade talks. Could be another possible #RedSox reunion.
If they somehow reacquire both Hanley and Anibal this offseason my head will explode. Not sure how this would benefit DET though with Verlander on the downswing and Scherzer more than likely gone.
Isn't that kind of a fair straight across trade in one sense? I would rather get a good prospect to package and flip for Hamels, but 1 year of porcello allows us to keep Owens and give him one more year of development.MakMan44 said:
Porcello makes sense, don't see Sanchez make much sense. Porcello is still young, not much of a SO pitcher but throws a lot of ground balls, good control, doesn't give up HR, reach 200inns last year and is fair stead. He is also suppose to be a good club house presences. Sanchez career year was 2013.
Edit: I take back my comments on Sanchez ... his number are not as bad as I thought from last year ... injury was likely the cause of less than stellar performance. Still like Porcello better.
Edit: I take back my comments on Sanchez ... his number are not as bad as I thought from last year ... injury was likely the cause of less than stellar performance. Still like Porcello better.
Porcello had a nice year last year, but his previous 4 aren't very impressive. Is he really any better than Joe Kelly? I mean, I know we need starters but I'd rather see us package Cespedes with prospect/s for someone who is better. Matt Latos perhaps?
Tigers are on the wrong side of the curve with Miggy, and Mike Illich isn't getting younger. They have to do something significant to turn the tide, and dealing away an arm like Sanchez to free funds or fill holes makes sense. Detroit holes are in the bullpen, outfield and 3B (They would prefer Castellanos in a corner outfield role).
Cespedes plays CF, Martinez in LF and Castellanos in RF, Mujica for the bullpen, and Cecchini for 3B is a good swap for Sanchez. Money is near equal, Tigers fill 3 holes and Sox fill a top of rotation spot. Tigers can likely make a run at retaining Scherzer if they move Sanchez.
Cespedes plays CF, Martinez in LF and Castellanos in RF, Mujica for the bullpen, and Cecchini for 3B is a good swap for Sanchez. Money is near equal, Tigers fill 3 holes and Sox fill a top of rotation spot. Tigers can likely make a run at retaining Scherzer if they move Sanchez.
Yes the motivation would be to keep Scherzer. Makes sense. Sanchez is a perfect target. Already signed at reasonable money.
Or maybe to keep Price. No way they're going to pay $25+ million each on long term deals to three starters.bosockboy said:
BeantownIdaho said:Sanchez?????
Source also indicated that Anibal Sanchez has been linked to trade talks. Could be another possible #RedSox reunion.
I wonder if this college kid's source is a certain 14-year-old who said the same thing earlier. Or vice versa
I guess them he just needs to sign Harvey Garcia and Jesus Delgado to minor league deals (even if they're only for 1 say so they can retire as Red Sox).
Edit: oh yeah?!? Who gets Guillermo Mota?!?
Edit: oh yeah?!? Who gets Guillermo Mota?!?
Well, if the theme of this offseason is to circle back on old transactions, then you could chalk this one up to exorcising the Lugo signing and loosing the 29th pick of that draft.
Dan Lifshatz @Dan_Lifshatz 7m7 minutes ago
Padres are believed to be interested in moving Ross if they could get something in return with Cespedes
Padres are believed to be interested in moving Ross if they could get something in return with Cespedes
Dan Lifshatz @Dan_Lifshatz · 19m 19 minutes ago According to sources Red Sox asked for Tyson Ross or Andrew Cashner and either Casey Kelly or Max Fried in a deal for Yoenis Cespedes
BeantownIdaho said:
According to sources Red Sox asked for Tyson Ross or Andrew Cashner and either Casey Kelly or Max Fried in a deal for Yoenis Cespedes
Well, Fuentes was just traded to the Royals last week, so Kelly was all they could get back
BeantownIdaho said:
According to sources Red Sox asked for Tyson Ross or Andrew Cashner and either Casey Kelly or Max Fried in a deal for Yoenis Cespedes
And then AJ Preller said that as long as Xander and Swihart were coming with Cespedes, they had a deal.
In all seriousness, it's going to take at least a B+ prospect plus Cespedes to get Ross all by himself.
Thoughts on Padres rumors:
1. Ian Kennedy? They guy the Padres got two seasons ago for a pile of scraps then put up ERA+s of 76 and 92? Why would we want that?
2. I can't imagine we get Ross/Cashner and Fried. Hard to gauge value on Kelly, he was a top prospect, but he's pitched a total of 20 innings (A+ and AA) in over 2 years.
3. Ross for Cespedes and something minor sounds fair.
1. Ian Kennedy? They guy the Padres got two seasons ago for a pile of scraps then put up ERA+s of 76 and 92? Why would we want that?
2. I can't imagine we get Ross/Cashner and Fried. Hard to gauge value on Kelly, he was a top prospect, but he's pitched a total of 20 innings (A+ and AA) in over 2 years.
3. Ross for Cespedes and something minor sounds fair.
I don't know if I'd want to move Cespedes for him, but Kennedy has had 5 straight seasons of 180 + IP and has a pretty decent SO-BB rate. He's worse than I thought, based on everything I've been hearing about him lately, but I'd rather him at the back of the rotation than giving Workman or Webster another chance.
EDIT: Given the choice, I'd pick Tyson but at least Kennedy has been healthy and putting up okay numbers (outside of 2013)
EDIT: Given the choice, I'd pick Tyson but at least Kennedy has been healthy and putting up okay numbers (outside of 2013)