Yeah. That said, at least it appears Strange may be playable and, at times, decent. Him being a 1st round pick is a sunk cost thing. All that matters now is if he can play and help the team.
This is now: BB and the direction of the Patriots
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Well, he also drafts guys replacements along the way. We have seemingly more developmental players from picks than most. Take a guy like Jennings - he basically redshirts year one, plays a bit year two, and steps in year three.
They already seemingly have David Andrews replacement in Jake Andrews for next year. This has been a constant theme here over the years where we often ignore best player available and draft guys to slot into specific roles or specific developmental plans.
Yep if Mac stepped up it was playoffs and a likely early exit. Then loaded for bear with cash for this offseason. He failed as bad as someone can fail and they gave him every chance possible to turn it around. So now...we go into next year with the Mac experiment over, tons of cash, and it is time for the next step in the process with a new QB and better picks than we have had in years, and a lot of money for FA.
And my point is there is literally zero evidence to support this statement. Like none. You just like Zappe more, which is, of course, totally fine. Because as I just showed you, Mac has dusted himself off better after rough starts that Zappe has, by every metric.
I've cited evidence (composure after mistakes, keeping the team in games, ability to move in the pocket to keep plays alive, gunslinger mentality). You have ignored it. I cited the NYG and IND games and evidence that Mac in fact collapsed in the face of adversity. You ignored that too.
I'm done as this is clearly not going anywhere. If we're lucky, neither guy will be starting any games for the Pats next year. If we're really lucky, Mac will be off the roster. If we're unlucky....well, this place will be even uglier than it is now.
Saw this on X. This is the first I've heard of this. Did I just miss something??
View: https://twitter.com/NBCSPatriots/status/1742254630887657925
View: https://twitter.com/NBCSPatriots/status/1742254630887657925
It was kicked around about a week or so ago by the likes of Bedard. No idea of the veracity of any of it.
What composure after mistakes? Outside of two blowouts this season, when were the Pats not in games with Mac? Gunslinger mentality?
This isn't going anywhere because you're literally going full WEEI with every post. The "evidence", you know, actual evidence and not "the guys on the team are happier and shoot rainbows out of their ass when Zappe plays, because Zappe brings out the best in everyone" shows that Mac has done exactly what you just described far more times than he hasn't. But when Parker drops a ball, when JuJu has one go through his hands to a defender, when Boutte can't get his feet down, when Rhamondre fumbles away a game winning drive, when Meyers laterals it to Chandler Jones, you blame Mac for not getting them over the finish line.
When Zappe throws 3 picks, but uses his calm eyes and gunslinger mentality to...lose the game in the end, you say he's got better composure. It's weird.
It stems from a report from Bedard that Mayo has "rubbed some people the wrong way" and Mayo responded:
https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/jerod-mayo-responds-hurtful-report-rubbing-people-wrong-way-patriots-bill-belichick-head-coach-nfl/
This comes across as someone who doesn't actually watch the games but bases their opinion solely on the data.
Yep, you figured it out. Look at this poise, this composure, this gunslinger mentality:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAZGqj5GaFw
I mean, look how he moves around in the pocket and just makes things happen:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zt4hnQlA5nk
Maybe it's those calm eyes and great press conferences, after another 3 interceptions:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vepmq4j-0Vo
I can assure you, I haven't missed a play in almost 40 years, with over 200 of them in person, and then again on television via DVR. If people think Bailey Zappe is somehow playing "light years" better than Mac Jones, feel free to show me the evidence, because I can promise you I will have 100s of examples of Mac Jones doing the same exact thing, good or bad. There is no difference between what we're seeing from each of them, but I understand it's easy to forget this stuff:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTyCQ3KyRPQ
On this website, you saying this like it's a gotcha is a shock.
The data matters. The eye test is often wrong. The reverse Moneyball.
Bedard is an ass. Total BS printing a story like that, as it's highly doubtful he has meaningful sources for info such as that.
The second video is a tipped INT. What are you even talking about?? We're going to debate whether or not a ball tipped in the air is on the QB? C'mon.
Mac is and continues to be worse than that. You want to find more videos of Zappes suckage that's great, look up Mac Jones while you're at it. Those videos are truly horrifying.
Like we're not talking about a competition played by humans.
Mac is and continues to be worse than that. You want to find more videos of Zappes suckage that's great, look up Mac Jones while you're at it. Those videos are truly horrifying.
The data is continually wrong because of how frickin twisted it gets. Its the love/hate relationship I have with this site. Some of you really put the anal in analysis and are blind to whats in front of you. Its amusing how some will twist themselves into the cold numbers being the whole story.
Like we're not talking about a competition played by humans.
Man the Zappe/Mac stuff is tiring. Both guys suck, one might be marginally better than the other. I hope neither are starting at QB for the NEP beyond this coming weekend.
I never said it's the full story. But it's a lot of the chapters, that's for sure.
Unless you're suggesting you would rather have a guy who throws for 7 yards an attempt but looks tall and manly over a guy who throws for 10 yards an attempt but is bald.
In summary, Mac sucks.(and is unequivocally broken) And Zappe is not much better.(but not broken) And the numbers bear that out. So does the eye test.
Mac needs to be fired into the sun. I've been saying Zappe should play since Week 3. But, honestly, Mac should have been dropped the second he hurt his ankle last year.
Some data.
https://x.com/NEPatsjunkie/status/1742361268974215399?s=20
Neither guy is good, but Mac sucks more than Zappe.
You're letting the guy who, no less than two months ago, was trying to convince us that Mac was actually almost Brady bait you into an argument. I guess at least now he sees Mac sucks.
LA TV speculating that BB might be leaving the Pats and that the Chargers would be interested. To be fair, the station was saying the same thing a few weeks ago, too.
So is he better or is he "light years" better, although I love some random cherry picked stats as much as the next guy.
From: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ranking-nfl-head-coaching-candidates-for-2024-all-eyes-on-bill-belichicks-possible-patriots-departure/
1. Bill Belichick
Current position: Head coach, New England Patriots
The Patriots' horrid season now has Bill Belichick's future in Foxborough uncertain. There has been plenty of smoke surrounding the head coach and the possibility that he will part ways with the Patriots organization this offseason. While New England has floundered a bit in this post-Tom Brady era under Belichick, he is still a strong head coach and will absolutely garner attention from the rest of the league if he becomes available, as reported by CBS Sports NFL Insider Josina Anderson. How the 71-year-old Belichick -- who is New England's GM -- handles player personnel at his potential next stop will be an interesting angle to monitor as well, but from a head-coaching standpoint, he's still second to none and would bring whatever organization he lands with instant credibility.
Their #2 candidate is Ben Johnson of Detroit. So I'm on record here as saying I want BB here next year. I still think he's the best in the business. But if Kraft has decided to move on, and if this article has an accurate read on how eager some teams would be to hire BB, then I think the Pats ought to trade BB to that team, even if it's not for a full first round pick (or more). Even a second round pick would be fine, rather than just fire him and let him go. So trade for a second round pick, then hire Ben Johnson - young, aggressive, offensively-minded coach.
The Pats would then have a top 5 pick in the first round and two second round picks to revamp the offense, with an offensively-minded, innovative young head coach to shape it.
1. Bill Belichick
Current position: Head coach, New England Patriots
The Patriots' horrid season now has Bill Belichick's future in Foxborough uncertain. There has been plenty of smoke surrounding the head coach and the possibility that he will part ways with the Patriots organization this offseason. While New England has floundered a bit in this post-Tom Brady era under Belichick, he is still a strong head coach and will absolutely garner attention from the rest of the league if he becomes available, as reported by CBS Sports NFL Insider Josina Anderson. How the 71-year-old Belichick -- who is New England's GM -- handles player personnel at his potential next stop will be an interesting angle to monitor as well, but from a head-coaching standpoint, he's still second to none and would bring whatever organization he lands with instant credibility.
Their #2 candidate is Ben Johnson of Detroit. So I'm on record here as saying I want BB here next year. I still think he's the best in the business. But if Kraft has decided to move on, and if this article has an accurate read on how eager some teams would be to hire BB, then I think the Pats ought to trade BB to that team, even if it's not for a full first round pick (or more). Even a second round pick would be fine, rather than just fire him and let him go. So trade for a second round pick, then hire Ben Johnson - young, aggressive, offensively-minded coach.
The Pats would then have a top 5 pick in the first round and two second round picks to revamp the offense, with an offensively-minded, innovative young head coach to shape it.
I think the majority of posters on this site genuinely are both able to listen and are desirous of listening, which really is the top ingredient to valuable message boarding.
But the posters that are so fucking absolutely certain of their position that they have lost any ability to even consider anyone else's point are drowning out everyone else. If your first instinct, when reading someone else's post, is to start thinking immediately, sentence-by-sentence, why what you are reading is wrong, why are you even bothering with message boarding? You're just performing. You would think the fact that there is such vehement disagreement over basic points would lead our most strident posters to have just a little less self-confidence and pause to think for a moment that maybe there's more than one way to look at something. But, fuck, just try listening for a fucking change. You can't do that with your mouth open.
Even if one of us (and it really can only be one) is always right and the rest of us are as stupid as we get treated when we disagree, that's not license to be mean.
If I get banned for backwashing in a thread, so be it. I'm damned near ready to check out of this bullshit anyway, which would suck because I love this BBTL.
But the posters that are so fucking absolutely certain of their position that they have lost any ability to even consider anyone else's point are drowning out everyone else. If your first instinct, when reading someone else's post, is to start thinking immediately, sentence-by-sentence, why what you are reading is wrong, why are you even bothering with message boarding? You're just performing. You would think the fact that there is such vehement disagreement over basic points would lead our most strident posters to have just a little less self-confidence and pause to think for a moment that maybe there's more than one way to look at something. But, fuck, just try listening for a fucking change. You can't do that with your mouth open.
Even if one of us (and it really can only be one) is always right and the rest of us are as stupid as we get treated when we disagree, that's not license to be mean.
If I get banned for backwashing in a thread, so be it. I'm damned near ready to check out of this bullshit anyway, which would suck because I love this BBTL.
Trading Bill without his co-operation is a non-starter. But thinking that Bill will go to a place that will be hamstrung by losing some of its top picks seems even sillier. Considering how much BB has done for the franchise, how much he has helped enhance Kraft's stature within the league, and frankly, how much value he has added to the price of the franchise, it seems petty for the Krafts to hold him hostage in any way.
I keep seeing this, but I don't think it's a monster deal breaker. I mean, he came to the Patriots after they traded a 1st and 4th for him, so it's not like he doesn't get how business is done.
Well that, KFP, and also that presumably BB would be going to a team that already has a lot of good stuff in place. He wouldn't likely go to a team at the bottom of the standings. Like...LAC would make a ton of sense. And if they had to give up a 2nd rounder to get BB, I'd think that if he cannot coach New England anymore, BB would be fine with going to a place like LA if the cost is a lost 2nd round pick.
Yes but....that's because their coach sucks, not because they don't have talent. They've got the two most important pieces for offensive success: a good QB and a true WR1. Give them a good coach and that organization could be really good really fast.I get your point, but the LAC are in last place by two games
I am not quite sure you're right. That team is, overall, devoid of talent outside of Herbie and Allen. And Allen is old. And their cap situation is a travesty, they are 35 million over the cap. By contrast, the Pats are 73 million dollars *under* the cap.
LAC is in for some very, very lean years unless they hire Les Snead and figure out the best 25 undrafted rookies to sign for 2024.
Interesting... so let's say that both the NE and LAC head coaching jobs are vacant, and you're someone like Ben Johnson, with a choice between the two. Given everything - QB situation, draft slot, overall roster, cap space, everything - which job would you prefer to take and why?
New England. Not even close.
LAC has a 2 year rebuild, minimum. Their roster is bad and overpaid. At least the Pats are just bad. Plus better ownership. LAC is a joke. They have always been a joke and they will always be a joke.
And it does seem like Herbert has the ball at the end of every game with a chance to win and he turns into Mac Jones. He's great but the results are actually not that great. Granted, a lot of that is because his offensive line are 5 turnstiles. Still, you need to see results eventually and he's 0-4 in his first four seasons. Made the playoffs as many times as Mac Jones, in one extra season, and lost a 27 point lead in it, too.
I'd probably pick New England if I was a young up and coming coach. Spanos cycles through coaches every 2-3 years and is notoriously cheap. You'd inherit Herbert but have to deal with a messy cap situation that will take some talent away. Add to that you've got Mahomes twice a year and I don't think it's a great landing spot for a young guy.
NE is more of a clean slate. Don't have the QB but will have a clean slate and a top 5 draft pick to potentially land a QB or some other potential franchise cornerstone.
Maybe LAC is more appealing for a 71-year old like Bill because the QB is in place and he'll think he can just coach up the rest even after the cap cut down and a quick trigger owner may not be as much of a concern for a guy in his 70's.
NE is more of a clean slate. Don't have the QB but will have a clean slate and a top 5 draft pick to potentially land a QB or some other potential franchise cornerstone.
Maybe LAC is more appealing for a 71-year old like Bill because the QB is in place and he'll think he can just coach up the rest even after the cap cut down and a quick trigger owner may not be as much of a concern for a guy in his 70's.
Agree.
THe Patriots are a team that is very talented on one side of the ball, with cap space and a high pick.
The Chargers are the opposite... they have a QB and that's about it. A couple good but aging and injury prone WRs, and..... nothing
I hear what you guys are saying, but the theme this whole season has been "the Patriots have one of the least talented rosters in the NFL and has no QB and no stud WR, which is what you need to win". LAC at least has the QB and WR1 (Allen isn't young but he's only 31...he's not old). They've got the two most important pieces already in place. And there's no guarantee that the Pats will find those guys - they might draft one this year but they also might whiff totally. LAC already has that key piece that's the hardest thing to find in all of football.
Pats are in a better financial and player development situation (the latter of which is not saying much). Ownership is rock solid. The downsides are stepping in for a legend in BB, rebuilding the entire football operation (literally from the signs on the wall to the on field product) and filling the most important position on the field. LAC has the last one covered and plays in a pretty low pressure market. They might suck, but they'll score some points and as an offensive mind, he will come out looking pretty good. My bet is he'd do it the old fashioned way and go to whoever pays him the most.
31 is ancient for a WR. The stats for WRs after age 30 are grim. And Allen missed the last four games of this season with an injury. Because he's old and he was overused and it broke.
Their other WR is an insanely overpaid Mike Williams, made of glass.
Ownership is so important when these guys are choosing which jobs to take and the ownership situation is much better in New England.
The Commanders are probably the correct answer to this question anyways. More cap space than New England, completely new owner (which I suppose could be a wild card- Not an NBA fan so no idea if Harris is good or bad), lots of draft picks including potentially #2.
Washington is definitely better than LAC. You have to wash off the Snyder stink, but it's possible. Washington could turn it around quick.
But they, like many, do need the QB. Howell ain't it.
For a new, young coach who probably has enough people interested in hiring him that he can leverage a long deal, I think I'd take the team that already has a quality QB and use those years to build around him. It could take a long time to find the right QB, if you ever do. And just to pre-empt the Jets jokes, obviously some teams don't.
Ownership in NE is better, but build around a QB already in place. Given how BB's tenure would be ending given the amount of success he's had, he's going to be hard to follow. NE fans are ruthless.
Ownership in NE is better, but build around a QB already in place. Given how BB's tenure would be ending given the amount of success he's had, he's going to be hard to follow. NE fans are ruthless.
Regardless of whether BB stays or goes it’s goddamn depressing that they lost to both of those teams this year.
The Pats in those two games allowed 26 total points.
I guess when you score 17 and 0 points, it's hard to win much in the NFL.
Yes I know, my point is it is strange and depressing to be talking about the Pats moving on from BB because they are one of the worst teams in the league that has lost games to a bunch of really bad teams, but also talking about him potentially landing with one of the other teams so bad that they fired their own coach.
That Chargers game was an abomination in the sight of the Lord. They could have played 8 more quarters and the Pats still wouldn't have scored.
Offensive line is more important than WR. The stud WR thing I have no idea where it comes from, but it really isn't true. A top end passcatcher (WR or TE) is nice, but QB and the guys who keep the QB from getting obliterated are more important. You really only need to look at Herbert... he's had his WRs out for games through his whole career.... his worst performances don't track to them being out... they track to when his o-line was bad (particularly the stretch where his ribs got broken).
As to Allen.... 31 is old for a WR and he's now missed about 1 in 3 games over his last 2 seasons.
I wonder how much scrutiny Bedard really placed on whoever told him this. It would be entirely unsurprising that Mayo may invite some jealousy from pockets of the staff as a guy who entered coaching already rich and got a new contract/ been anointed as a potential successor by the owner. I really don’t know what ‘rubbed people the wrong way’ even means. This is what Bedard wrote:
‘- Multiple team sources indicated Mayo has rubbed at least some people the wrong way in the building since his extension and when he, perhaps, received a strong indication he would be the successor (the idea was more for 2025 or '26). Maybe this is of no concern to the Krafts, if their mind was already made up. I have no new information that would lead me to believe the Krafts don't continue to think highly of Mayo. But you would expect them to do their due diligence on whoever they might have in mind — internal or external. Of course, you can't rule out that some sources are lining up their own boats and perhaps thinking that Mayo may be setting a new course.’
How do you report that he is ‘rubbing at least some people the wrong way’ without elaborating about what kind of behavior is informing it? It’s relatively useless information without further context, but it sure does generate buzz.
I don't know how much I agree with this. I think if you asked Pat Mahomes whether he'd rather have a top OL or Tyreek/Prime Kelce, he'd go with the latter. I think Burrow would rather have Chase healthy than his LT. Same with Jefferson in Minny or Davante Adams when he was in Green Bay. IMO, you can scheme around a bad line more than you can receivers who can't get open. Like, I don't think Tua is all that great, but he's had 7 different offensive line combos and the offense (for the most part) keeps humming when they have receivers healthy.
And I guess I'll qualify this further - these are positional groups. One great WR and a bunch of shit won't do you much good, the same way a great LG and a bunch of shit won't be a positive either. So it's not so much getting a single stud WR, it's leveling up the whole group. It's all relative, too - a terrible OL is probably more damaging than a great WR corps is positive, but a mid WR corps with a great OL is probably a less potent offense than a great WR corps with a mid OL. I don't know how you measure this because I think it's not either or, they really do go hand in hand, and the stats of an offensive line can look really good when the QB gets the ball out in 2 seconds. It's my (possibly stupid) hunch that all the technique in the world isn't going to save a great OL if the defense can pin back and attack because they're not threatened by a pass. Being able to consistently complete 15-20 yard plays is, IMO, one of the best ways to protect the QB.
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