If Philly thought he could stay healthy they wouldn't trade him.
I've lost the point in all these meanderings.
The Plan For the #1, er, #3 Overall Pick?
- Thread starter pdaj
- Start date
I've lost the point in all these meanderings.
I like Porzingis a lot, but he's a pretty garbage rebounder so scap him off the list for players who fit the OP's bill, we're now down to Davis, Jokic, Giannis, hey lets add Draymond for fun
As has been stated, these silly trade scenarios don't see to noticeably improve the team to a level in which the Celtics are likely to be able to compete at the level of the Warriors/Cavaliers over the next 2-3 years. It also doesn't take into account that if we are trying to get one of the top 5-8 big men in the game, the other team will likely ask for more than just the #1 overall pick which will set us even further back. And last but certainly not least - is that we would have to balance salaries to ensure these trades would work under the cap rules.
The Celtics are unlikely to be only 1 player away from competing with the teams in the finals now (at their level) unless that player comes from their rosters (KD, Curry, LBJ). Even adding the best player not in the finals (Kawhi?) wouldn't put the Celtics at that level.
The best path forward as has been mentioned is to acquire as many "transcendental players" as possible. Trying to lure FAs like Hayward and drafting lottery tickets like Fultz this year (and i will take the collective opinions of professional scouts over lurkers on a message board) and Porter next year will provide the C's with 4 potential transcendental players (including IT).
The Celtics are unlikely to be only 1 player away from competing with the teams in the finals now (at their level) unless that player comes from their rosters (KD, Curry, LBJ). Even adding the best player not in the finals (Kawhi?) wouldn't put the Celtics at that level.
The best path forward as has been mentioned is to acquire as many "transcendental players" as possible. Trying to lure FAs like Hayward and drafting lottery tickets like Fultz this year (and i will take the collective opinions of professional scouts over lurkers on a message board) and Porter next year will provide the C's with 4 potential transcendental players (including IT).
The Celtics, minus draft assets, plus Anthony Davis, probably can compete with the Cavaliers/Warriors, if not immediately then certainly 2 years from now. I agree with just about everything else you wrote, plus this trade will never. fucking. happen. so it's kind of pointless to discuss.
This is where I am in that unless Ainge is blown away by the opportunity to add Brow and Hayward to the mix our future continues to be built around 2020-21 and beyond. It is difficult to imagine 3 high lottery picks being added to an already functional playoff team with culture and structure already in place.......but to imagine Jaylen, Fultz, and Ayton/Porter/Doncic all hitting on their potential in 5 years is breathtaking.
I'd hesitate to give "all" scouts the amount of credit you do. There are many very good ones who quickly climb the ladder into GM and Head Scout roles.......there are many basketball minds out there and on this board who would be more than capable of being employed in scouting departments if that was their career of choice. There are many "basketball lifer wannabes" in these positions, some are good but many fail and move on to other lines of work also, coaching at lower levels, etc. Like any other career (including NBA player), you have the best opportunity to succeed by having the best work ethic, mentors, and landing in the right situation. It isn't rocket science for those who truly understand the game and are willing to adapt to the ever changing ways of player evaluation combining analytics with the experienced eye.
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I like Lil' Zeke more than most of you, and was furious when Boston passed him over for E'Twan Moore, but he isn't transcendent. Nor will he ever be.
He is a great offensive player, but by just about every available metric, and by every eye test, was the worst defensive guard in the NBA last year. And so bad that he made everyone around him worse, to the extent that we have even posters calling the defensive abilities of our other guards overrated because they can't cover for him.
Despite my love for him, I'll be shocked if he's here after next year, because Fultz is that good and will be available to take over a starting spot in 2019.
CelticsBlog is devoting the entire week to one Markelle Fultz (assuming that's because the rest of the draft doesn't really mean anything to the Cs).
Here's the first installment: why Fultz isn't a defensive liability.
Here's the first installment: why Fultz isn't a defensive liability.
The New York Post is reporting that Dennis Smith, currently slotted at #10 by Draft Express, will be working out for the Celtics on Wednesday, June 7. Ainge is moving forward with his due diligence in case stuff happens on draft night. It will be interesting to see if top 10 prospects other than Lonzo Ball will also be visiting the Celtics.
The Celtics also reportedly worked out Jonathan Issac (slotted at #6 per Draft Express) and Eric McCree (yet another pf from Louisiana Tech) in Las Vegas a few days ago.
The Celtics also reportedly worked out Jonathan Issac (slotted at #6 per Draft Express) and Eric McCree (yet another pf from Louisiana Tech) in Las Vegas a few days ago.
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After studying all of those Fansided breakdowns of Fultz's game, I'll be furious if the Celtics don't take him. That's projectable all-star level offense with room for growth. Sort of a Harden/Wade hybrid kind of player, only with elite point guard type vision and handle. You simply don't pass on guys like that, you build franchises around them when they rarely become available. I can't wait to see him in green for a long, long time if Ainge does the right thing.
I think there's only about a 0.001% chance the Celtics don't take Fultz. I'm leaving 0.001% just in case some team gets stupid and offers us a king's ransom for the top pick.
Here is a Yale freshman discussing exactly that re:Fultz
http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/john-tomase/2017/05/31/how-did-markelle-fultz-lose-yale-let-one-bul
"It's how smooth and how easy he scores," Oni said. "I didn't really notice that when I was playing. Then I look at the game after like wow, he just glided to the basket and finished. I think he'll be really successful in an open floor NBA game, more even so than college, because his game will translate really well. He has a long wingspan defensively, and he can use that offensively, also. He has a tight handle and long arms, so he kind of moves a lot with his dribble. That smoothness to his game will help him a lot."
"He'll have more space on the floor," he said. "Just his ability to use ball screens to manipulate them and score off them in every way will help him a lot. He has enough size to finish over big guys. He can pull up, mid-range, shoot a floater. There's a lot of room to isolate and use ball screens, more so in the NBA than college. I think that will benefit him a lot. I can see him scoring a lot from an early age in the NBA."
http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/john-tomase/2017/05/31/how-did-markelle-fultz-lose-yale-let-one-bul
"It's how smooth and how easy he scores," Oni said. "I didn't really notice that when I was playing. Then I look at the game after like wow, he just glided to the basket and finished. I think he'll be really successful in an open floor NBA game, more even so than college, because his game will translate really well. He has a long wingspan defensively, and he can use that offensively, also. He has a tight handle and long arms, so he kind of moves a lot with his dribble. That smoothness to his game will help him a lot."
"He'll have more space on the floor," he said. "Just his ability to use ball screens to manipulate them and score off them in every way will help him a lot. He has enough size to finish over big guys. He can pull up, mid-range, shoot a floater. There's a lot of room to isolate and use ball screens, more so in the NBA than college. I think that will benefit him a lot. I can see him scoring a lot from an early age in the NBA."
I posted this a few weeks ago but this is common for GM's to have as many willing players work out for them as possible.....not necessarily for this summers draft but to also get to know the player/person in the case they become available via trade down the road. This is how a GM builds his book on players past this years draft.
Yes, Bill Belichick's does the same thing.
I also wouldn't rule out Danny trying to pick up another top10 pick (without giving up the #1) although the mechanics of that would be difficult (from a protection point of view) as the 2018 Jersey pick is looking like the Celtics last high pick for a good long time.
Probably helps with scouting purposes to for when you face that player later on too.
Also, did Ball change his mind? Is he actually going to do a workout with Boston now?
I wouldn't sleep on the Memphis pick. It's only top 8 protected in 2019 and top 6 in 2020 (unprotected in 2021). That roster has very little talent outside of Conley/Gasol and may lose JaMychal Green. And Parsons looks to be already breaking down. They have basically zero cap room to improve the roster for the next couple of years.
He has torn both his left and right meniscus and had suregry on both knees. Safe to say it is more than just looking like a break down
Regarding pick protections, how does it work? If the Memphis pick ends up coming in at number 9 - do the Celtics have to take it? Or can they wait another year?
They have to take it, but that doesn't mean they couldn't rework it with Memphis or kick the can down the road with another team and hope for something better in the long run.
While we are waiting, Adam Kaufman with a run-down of guards picked in the top 5 for the last 20 years (and Jamal Crawford who was picked #8 but was the first pure guard picked in his draft). http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/06/05/success-rate-guards-drafted-atop-nba-draft-boston-celtics-markelle-fultz-adam-kaufman/
Minus injuries, the selections mostly hold up. Guess it's a lot easier to project guard play than big men.
Minus injuries, the selections mostly hold up. Guess it's a lot easier to project guard play than big men.
Skilled bigs are rarer and more injury prone. That drives up demand *and* bust rate. At least that's how I'd read that.
That joint offered free food for life to Fultz if he brings #18 to Boston.
Anyway, Fultz versus Simmons: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2713313-whos-the-better-prospect-markelle-fultz-or-ben-simmons
Anyway, Fultz versus Simmons: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2713313-whos-the-better-prospect-markelle-fultz-or-ben-simmons
I'm not sure that they are more difficult to project, but there are far fewer elite big man prospects and therefore teams are willing to gamble on lesser talents on the hope that they have more upside potential.
I do like the ramping up of the hype machine, so that now we will all be really pissed off if Danny trades the pick, even if it's for Steph Curry or something.
Anyway, it does at least seem to be that nearly everyone in the draft/scout community has Fultz as a more clear number 1 than before. I guess that's normal lead up stuff, but around tournament time there was a lot more talk about Ball,Jackson, and even Tatum being worth the top pick.
Anyway, it does at least seem to be that nearly everyone in the draft/scout community has Fultz as a more clear number 1 than before. I guess that's normal lead up stuff, but around tournament time there was a lot more talk about Ball,Jackson, and even Tatum being worth the top pick.
I'd lean towards Simmons over Fultz just because finding a 6' 10", 240 lbs guy who can move the way Simmons can is, as pointed out above, extremely rare. However, it would really depend on his interview and workout - for example, how his shooting form look.
I figure that the Cs so rarely are in this position, we'd might as well get in now all the dreaming we can before reality sets in. I guess I'd better not talk about what I see his "floor" to be . . . .
The alternate group will be complaining when the 19yo Fultz averages an efficient 11/5/7 and we get outrebounded in some February loss that we missed our chance on a rebounding big in a trade and Fultz doesn't team defense well and I told you so.
When comparing Fultz and Simmons, are we accounting for the fact that Simmons has already missed an entire season? That fact would tend to make him a larger long-term injury risk, no?
Hard to say unless you've seen (and understand) the medical reports. But it does mean that Simmons will be off rookie scale a year earlier than this year's draftees.
This has to be either satire or trolling
1.
Pacers via trade with Celtics
Markelle Fultz, PG, Washington
Trade: Boston sends No. 1 overall pick in 2017, both of their second-rounders this year as well as a 2019 first-round pick (which had been acquired from the Clippers) to Indiana for Paul George and Al Jefferson.
Why not just go for it? The Celtics came as close as they were going to come with their current roster at unseating LeBron's Cavs atop the East – in other words, not particularly close at all. Getting Paul George from the Pacers and trying to sign him to a long-term deal is the ultimate win-now move. This trade assumes that George shows interest in staying with Boston and not just in hopping on the first train to Los Angeles, and that Gordon Hayward stays put in Utah instead of heading to Boston. It helps that the Pacers are throwing in someone who can shore up the Celtics' post play in Al Jefferson.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-celtics-deal-no-1-pick-for-paul-george-pacers-take-markelle-fultz/
1.
Markelle Fultz, PG, Washington
Trade: Boston sends No. 1 overall pick in 2017, both of their second-rounders this year as well as a 2019 first-round pick (which had been acquired from the Clippers) to Indiana for Paul George and Al Jefferson.
Why not just go for it? The Celtics came as close as they were going to come with their current roster at unseating LeBron's Cavs atop the East – in other words, not particularly close at all. Getting Paul George from the Pacers and trying to sign him to a long-term deal is the ultimate win-now move. This trade assumes that George shows interest in staying with Boston and not just in hopping on the first train to Los Angeles, and that Gordon Hayward stays put in Utah instead of heading to Boston. It helps that the Pacers are throwing in someone who can shore up the Celtics' post play in Al Jefferson.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-celtics-deal-no-1-pick-for-paul-george-pacers-take-markelle-fultz/
Basically anyone can get a job writing for sports websites, huh? This is worse than anything Simmons ever proposed.This has to be either satire or trolling
1.Pacers via trade with Celtics
Markelle Fultz, PG, Washington
Trade: Boston sends No. 1 overall pick in 2017, both of their second-rounders this year as well as a 2019 first-round pick (which had been acquired from the Clippers) to Indiana for Paul George and Al Jefferson.
Why not just go for it? The Celtics came as close as they were going to come with their current roster at unseating LeBron's Cavs atop the East – in other words, not particularly close at all. Getting Paul George from the Pacers and trying to sign him to a long-term deal is the ultimate win-now move. This trade assumes that George shows interest in staying with Boston and not just in hopping on the first train to Los Angeles, and that Gordon Hayward stays put in Utah instead of heading to Boston. It helps that the Pacers are throwing in someone who can shore up the Celtics' post play in Al Jefferson.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-celtics-deal-no-1-pick-for-paul-george-pacers-take-markelle-fultz/
He also has the Celtics taking Tatum if they keep the pick. He's heavily tilted toward a win now mode for the Celtics, for whatever reason.
The dumbest thing, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, is that if you want Tatum then you trade down and try to both add something else to your roster (or a future asset) and not pay the guy who will be around at 4 as the number 1 pick.
What I'm saying is that the guy's a fucking moron.
The dumbest thing, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, is that if you want Tatum then you trade down and try to both add something else to your roster (or a future asset) and not pay the guy who will be around at 4 as the number 1 pick.
What I'm saying is that the guy's a fucking moron.
People have to write about it.
It's just take the guy but we have to discuss it as we wait.
I'm so jealous of you fuckers
It's just take the guy but we have to discuss it as we wait.
I'm so jealous of you fuckers
As a fan of Philadelphia, you have no right to be jealous of a team with a high draft pick.
