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The Brad Stevens thread - More Clueless Than Alicia Silverstone

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by DeJesus Built My Hotrod, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Ok, so 50% in the Top-12 over past 6 seasons with DeRozan and Valanciunas in your starting lineup doesn't sound like a coach who is living in the prior decade. You have to coach to your personnel.

    We aren't judging playoff adjustments as the voting took place at the end of the regular season. Casey won 59 games and overachieved what most expected. So did Stevens, Snyder, Brett Brown, McMillian, Stotts, Spoelstra, and Malone....I can even include D'Antoni. If you ask the fans in each of those cities who the COY should be I'm pretty sure you'll find that homerism will take over and they see their guy as the best this year due to their overachieving. They all did great......good luck separating them.

    Personally I have Snyder, Stevens, McMillan and Spoelstra in the Top Tier with the others in the group behind and not a whole lot separating them.
     
    #301 HomeRunBaker, May 10, 2018
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
  2. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

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    I suppose this could go in the media thread, but since there's a Stevens thread . . .
    Anyway, this is really dumb.
    It starts and ends with the premise that maybe jealousy, etc., was behind the NBCA coach vote. But then Washburn concedes that he didn't even include Stevens among his top THREE in the "real" COTY vote, and reasonably explains why.

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/c...ht-out-envy/y2JOxcR8vzZ8PczuKLYk4I/story.html
     
  3. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Washburn's explanation of his picks aligns with my thoughts above in that you can easily make a case for 7-8 different guys in your Top-3.....and I didn't even include Pop or Doc, who imo did an amazing job with his son as the only NBA guard on his entire roster for most of the season much less as a 35 mpg starting PG. There were a ton of nice jobs done this season but it is important to keep in mind that these votes were taken BEFORE the playoffs began where Stevens has really gained momentum with how his team has played.
     
  4. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

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    I agree. Which is why I didn't think it was *that* much of a shock that Stevens didn't get a vote, when each coach only had one. My beef with Washburn's piece is the poor reasoning that goes into positing that "resentment" might have had something to do with it, but then submitting his own (presumably resentment-free) ballot which didn't even have Stevens as top 3.
     
  5. The Social Chair

    The Social Chair Member SoSH Member

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  6. OurF'ingCity

    OurF'ingCity Member SoSH Member

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    It's a great article. In particular, this should be posted every time someone whines in a game thread that Brad is getting more angry at bad calls or calling out officials after the game:

     
  7. In my lifetime

    In my lifetime Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I just forwarded the article along with highlighting 15 quotes to the high school football team I coach.
     
  8. LesterFan

    LesterFan Member SoSH Member

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  9. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

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    It does make me wonder what exactly he says to earn the few technical fouls he gets.
     
  10. Gash Prex

    Gash Prex Member SoSH Member

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    I can’t wait for the outcry over his firing and his subsequent win of the COY award
     
  11. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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    Can someone who watched the Raptors more than me explain why Casey won this award? The Raptors have been good in the regular season for a while now -- yet I heard over and over again what an "incredible job" he did with them this year. Is the ability to overcome a Boston team returning 3 players and missing its two biggest superstars really an testament to superior coaching?

    Between this award and "Ben Simmons is the Future of the NBA," the cognitive dissonance is hurting my brain. Help me out here.
     
  12. PedroKsBambino

    PedroKsBambino Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    This feels to me like Masai needed to make this move to protect himself. And, I don't blame him---while I acknowledge he did a solid job this year I also think it's pretty clear Casey is not a guy who will take them to the next level.

    To my prior comment about GMs/Owners vs media (or some subset of coaches), I think the real decision makers know the difference between guys like Casey and guys like Stevens or Pop.
     
  13. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    I don't know if it's Masai trying to protect his job but they got to do something and there's literally no other move he can make.

    Odds are they regress but there is a chance someone can get more out of TOR's roster and that's the chance Masai has to take.
     
  14. Big John

    Big John lurker

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    I don't know if it's a chance Ujiri has to take, but certainly Derozan appears to have quit on the team in round 2, and at least some of that may be on Casey.
     
    #314 Big John, May 11, 2018
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
  15. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    Because the Raptors just won 59 games?
    Over the past decade there have only been a few teams in the EC to win 59 games in the regular season Aside from LeBron in Cleveland and Miami the only ones I can think of are the Millsap/Horford/Teague Hawks and Thibs Bulls. Both times a coach has taken a 1-seed from LeBron since he has evolved into what he has become they have won the COY Award.

    Edit: What axx said below me.
     
    #315 HomeRunBaker, May 12, 2018
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
  16. axx

    axx lurker

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    COY award is really a team award for the team that outperformed expectations during the regular season.
     
  17. LondonSox

    LondonSox Robert the Deuce SoSH Member

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    This.
    And the Celtics did outperform their expectations, but those expectations were based on different players, if you had given Vegas this lineup he'd have done better.

    There's a lot of love for Brett Brown on surviving the shit show years and sticking through it. Pacers for a shocker etc. I think pop did maybe his best job ever getting that roster into the west playoffs.

    I really don't care and Stevens (edit typo) doesn't care

    I read a few pieces where some coaches implied he's great but let's see him win more than once ECF game before annointing him. Which frankly is bullshit. Because you never see playoffs before the vote, so are you voting for historical performance??

    So I do think it's some sour grapes, because Casey hasn't! Plus as it turns out that team remake was illusionary anyway.

    I think there are a ton of good candidates this year, Casey imo is such a blah case
     
    #317 LondonSox, May 12, 2018
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
  18. PedroKsBambino

    PedroKsBambino Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Zach Lowe/David Thorpe had a good take on Casey, which was that something had to move and Casey, as good as he may be at building a team/culture, is not a particularly strong in-game coach and they may just have decided they need more in-game capability to take the next step. That resonates with me especially in the playoffs, when coaching abilities are amplified.
     
  19. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    Any article that has Stevens outside the top 3 is not worth the toilet paper it should be printed on.
     
  20. riboflav

    riboflav Member SoSH Member

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    When can we at SoSH stop referring to Lowe, who is ok, but not worth the praise SoSH heaps upon him, especially when there are so much better NBA analysts like Coach Nick, just to name one? Seriously, guys it's ok to move beyond ESPN.
     
  21. Kliq

    Kliq Member SoSH Member

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    Lowe’s not just okay; he’s fantastic. That’s coming from someone who avoids ESPN like the plague.
     
  22. Pedrino

    Pedrino lurker

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    Zach Lowe is pretty much the only ESPN writer I read. He’s probably the best NBA writer in my opinion even if he picked Sixers in 5. Kevin O’Connor is coming on strong though.
     
  23. PedroKsBambino

    PedroKsBambino Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    While much of what ESPN does is dumbed down and/or staged that does not mean we should throw out the excellent (like Lowe or Keith Law) with the Screaming A Smith rest of them.
     
  24. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    This, to me, is complete BS by Lowe/Thorpe. The Raptors don't need anything more in-game than DeRozan and Lowry not shrinking against Cleveland which has little to do with coaching. The only thing the Raptors need to take the next step is less LeBron.
     
  25. PedroKsBambino

    PedroKsBambino Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    You don’t think there were any different schematic choices to be made? Really?
     
  26. Devizier

    Devizier Member SoSH Member

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    I’m with HRB here. What is Casey supposed to do? Derozan/Lowry should have been salivating at the sight of JR Smith et al. The Cavaliers’ guard rotation is embarrassingly bad.
     
  27. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    DeRozan is an iso scorer, period. It has made him a lethal scorer during the regular season.......he's also shown to be able to be shutdown against playoff level defensive intensity. A coach can get his scorers favorable matchups which wasn't the problem in this series.....Cleveland didn't even need to run a second man at DeRozan much of the time. They have no defender to matchup with LeBron which allows for the Cavs offense to run fluidly throughout the game. We discussed this prior to the series......Casey was forced to use Siakam on LeBron in many cases and the undersized Anunoby for the majority of it. Coaching doesn't change these personnel mismatches against LeBron.
     
  28. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    I think that's the point--there really wasn't too much Casey could do, but sometimes organizations decide to make a change for change's sake. In this case they couldn't change the roster, so they changed the coach.
     
  29. Montana Fan

    Montana Fan Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    After 10 straight postseason losses to Cleveland, including getting swept after Indiana took Cleveland to 7 games, I'm not surprised that Ujiri decided it is time to bring in his own guy.
     
  30. uk_sox_fan

    uk_sox_fan Member SoSH Member

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    Well, Stevens (2-8) has now tied Casey (2-12) in playoff wins over Lebron with at least 4 more chances to move ahead in the next 2 weeks. If one of the criteria for COY accolades is a history of winning in the playoffs he's getting there...
     
  31. scottyno

    scottyno Member SoSH Member

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    How about a defensive strategy that doesn't both let Lebron score 35 a game and leave the cavs shooters wide open for 3 each of the last 2 times they've met? Derozan sucked outside of game 1 but Lowry actually had a good series and it didn't matter because they gave up 118 a game after giving up 116 a game last year.
     
  32. southshoresoxfan

    southshoresoxfan Member SoSH Member

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    HRB is Dwayne Casey. I’ve never seen them both in the same place.

    Casey is an average coach. JAG. Blame whatever you want but that’s what 10 in a row to LeBron while having a talented roster? Time to go.
     
  33. PedroKsBambino

    PedroKsBambino Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah, I get that he was limited but he basically ran the same bad approach back each game, seemed to me. And the defense was awful. I get it's a gigantic impediment to have the defensive wings they do and I recognize that is so impactful when Lebron is there, but from what I saw (and I saw less than I normally due because of travel, I admit) he just did the same things even when they were proven not to work. No doubt he had a tough hand, but I didn't come away thinking he was getting them to the next level.
     
  34. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    Does it feel like the legend of Brad is getting into opposing players (Lebron) and coaches (Brett Brown) heads?

    Lebron and the media can't stop talking about Brad getting the most out of his roster, ATO inbound plays, young player development and "great" game plans in Game 1.

    I love me some Brad but the Celtic players are executing. Its like they are getting no credit/respect which has to fire them up.

    Game 2 is going to be interesting.

    On another note, starting MaMo was a brilliant move by Brad. I thought they'd go with Semi (after he shut down Giannis in Game 7). Starting MaMo gave the Celtics zero offensive weak links to hide Korver/Love. The Celtics scored many layups in Q1. I also liked that Brad matched up Baynes on Tristen Thompson, to neutralize Tristen's physicality.
     
  35. Eddie Jurak

    Eddie Jurak Go Leafs Go Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I think it was the obvious move. Starting Semi means they are all but playing 4-on-5 at the offensive end. That may work against a team like Milwaukee, but it would let an old team like Cleveland that has holes in its defense off the hook.
     
  36. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    Yep. You were on that a few days ago. Kudos. Semi seemed a little overwhelmed today.

    MaMo did a nice job on Lebron but so did Brown, when MaMo got two quick fouls. Plus Tatum, Rozier, Al, Smart seamlessly rotated on LBJ and all held their ground. Once again the Celtic players executed and Lebron immediately started crediting Brad and coaches in the postgame presser.
     
  37. riboflav

    riboflav Member SoSH Member

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    Casey sucks.

     
  38. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

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    LeBron's gonna take a minimum salary deal just to play for Stevens.
     
  39. Eddie Jurak

    Eddie Jurak Go Leafs Go Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Better Lebron + early foul trouble + Cavs hitting a few early 3s is what I could see going wrong for the Celtics in game 2.
     
  40. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    When Casey says that he wanted to trap LBJ at the end of Game 3 and the players say they didn't know that was a plan, there's a coaching issue.

    I didn't watch a ton of the series but from what I did, it didn't seem like there was a ton of adjustments on TOR's side. We've gone over how TOR got killed by the Korver / Love off ball action but Casey kept rolling out Valanciunas and Ibaka together. One lineup that was suggested by writers (e.g., here) was to play Siakam and Anunoby together but Casey never really tried it to my knowledge.

    (As a side note, one thing I've noticed with Brad is that he's not afraid to try different combos of guys during the regular season, which has 2 advantages: (1) he can keep guys engaged because they never know when they might get playing time and (2) he has some idea of how guys will play with each other).

    Plus, Casey lost his team in Game 4.

    TOR is hoping they can like GSW, which needed to replace Jackson with Kerr to reach the next level. Probably wishful thinking but I don't see any other choice.
     
  41. johnmd20

    johnmd20 literally like ebola Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Celtics D was solid in the first quarter yesterday but it's probably not reasonable to expect the Cavs will brick their first 12 three pointers again. That was some ugly shooting by all of the players. That could change things tomorrow, but the Cavs will have to do more than just hit 3's.

    They were humiliated yesterday, but the Pacers humiliated the Cavs in the first round and they came back to win the next game.
     
  42. Eddie Jurak

    Eddie Jurak Go Leafs Go Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Here is an interesting thought I had about Stevens’ approach in these playoffs.

    Offensively, the Celtics have aggressively attacked mismatches throughout the playoffs.

    Defensively, they have almost taken the opposite approach, focusing on taking some offensive options off the board and kind of channeling the offense into a matchup that they are willing to live with.
     
  43. chilidawg

    chilidawg Member SoSH Member

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    I'd agree with this, but I think it is due as much to personnel as it is to coaching strategy. The Celtics have a much more versatile lineup, and thus on the defensive end manage to avoid mismatches more readily. Cleveland has guys like Love, Hill and Korver who are easy to create problems for.
     
  44. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    There was an article yesterday (The Ringer maybe?) that said the Celtics have absorbed the switch, and then immediately switched out of it--example had Rozer switched onto Love, but as the Cavs made the entry pass to Love, Tatum jumped over onto him and Rozier switched to Tatum's man. This is causing the Cavs to hunt for matchups and they are doing it too slowly, and finally initiating the offense with the shot clock winding down.

    How they react to that tonight will be key. Does Brad continue doing that? Or play the initial switch with late help after someone makes their move?
     
  45. chilidawg

    chilidawg Member SoSH Member

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    I watched that too, it seemed Cleveland was slow making decisions and moving the ball, allowing the Celtics time to do those secondary switches. Faster movement of the ball could help them, but it could also speed them up to the point that they start turning it over more.
     
  46. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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  47. mikeot

    mikeot Member SoSH Member

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  48. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    ...with the caveat that while Kyrie can be compared to Curry, and Horford to Green, none of our wings come close to presenting the same insane offensive threat that Kevin Durant does. Tatum has shown enough promise to hold a hope of getting into his area code, but Durant is a future HOFer with freakish agility for his size and an ability to shoot over anyone courageous enough to guard him tightly. He turned a Warriors-Cavs finals series that had come down to a coin flip at the end of game 7, into a 5-game curb-stomping by an average 14-point margin. Our future starting 5 is many great things, including supremely well-coached, but "starting 2 recent MVPs" is not one of them. Our eventual edge against the Warriors is going to have to come from something other than "get a good wing matchup and pound it".
     
  49. bakahump

    bakahump Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Maybe its a Talk Radio Construct,
    but i find it funny that Stevens is still considered "New" to the NBA coaching profession.

    He is currently 87th all time in wins (221) and 93 rd all time in games (410). He is 113th in Losses (189).
    66th in Winning %

    All in 5 years. 5 years of the "rebuilding period". He is about to enter the golden years of his team where 40-50 wins a year may well be considered under achieving.

    45 wins a year for the next 5 years puts him in the top 50 for wins all time. That seems ...."reachable" lol. (though Danny may fire him if this team wins 45 games a year :p )
    He seems well on his way to a top 20 wins (@700 wins) of all time coach. In theory he could surpass Auerbach for most celtics wins (795). But He might have to work to catch him in championships :)


    Edit

    Couple other interesting things
    Stevens currently has the most wins of anyone with 5 Years experience (221). And the second most of anyone with 5 OR LESS years experience (Kerr with an incredible 265 in only 4 years!)
    Stevens (and of course Kerr) also have more wins then anyone with 6 years experience.
    With a couple of really good seasons (55ish wins) he could have more wins then anyone with 7 years experience (and not named Kerr). Right now the highest wins for a 7 Year coach is Bill Sharmin at 333.

    Billy Cunningham is impossible to catch at 454 wins in only 8 years. (he would have to average 78 wins over the next 3 LOL) (BTW what happened to him? 57 wins a year and then nothing). Kerr very well could catch him.
    Take it out to 10 years Stevens has an outside shot to catch KC Jones (522 wins) for most wins with 10 years experience (again Kerr excepted) but it would mean the next 5 better be 60+win seasons.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/NBA_stats.html
     
    #349 bakahump, May 15, 2018
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  50. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    Billy Cunningham replaced Tommy as national broadcaster of NBA games.
     

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