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The Brad Stevens thread - More Clueless Than Alicia Silverstone

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by DeJesus Built My Hotrod, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Just from listening to the players, I don't think it can overstated how much value he extracts from the effort of helping with the bags.

    Like, it will literally translate into millions of dollars of income over the course of his life.
     
  2. mikeot

    mikeot Member SoSH Member

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  3. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    I kinda of agree with you, but Kyrie only played like 3 more games than Gobert did--so if he's "most of season" than Gobert is as well.
     
  4. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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  5. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

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  6. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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  7. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    my favorite was "It's OK, because you have the best shot-making point guard in the league."

    When did we land Steph?
     
  8. HomeRunBaker

    HomeRunBaker bet squelcher SoSH Member

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    His defensive set to defend a catch-and-shoot 3 the other day was stuff of legend. ;)
     
  9. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    Yeah, if Joe Prunty can figure out how to dilate spacetime in order to get a shot off in 0.5 seconds, maybe the rest of us homers should cool it.
     
  10. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    I love this debate

     
  11. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    Have to do a big LOL at 538's prediction of 48 wins for a Celtics team that was significantly improved over last year's 53 win team.
     
  12. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    IT'S 11PM ON A FRIDAY AND I CAN'T STOP WATCHING NATIONAL COMMENTATORS SING BRAD STEVENS' PRAISES



    SEND HELP
     
  13. Spelunker

    Spelunker Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    NO! LEAN IN! SEND MORE!
     
  14. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    +1
     
  15. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    This guy isn't on the Cora train yet, I see... :kitty::banana::kitty:
     
  16. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    They went through all that discussion of wins added by a coach and failed to mention the key point that coaches don't count against the cap?

    Point: Danny
     
  17. Imbricus

    Imbricus Member SoSH Member

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    Fascinating discussion. Interesting too that Silver sees only two very elite coaches: Stevens and Popovich (who he suggests may be on the downside of his career).
     
  18. Eddie Jurak

    Eddie Jurak Go Leafs Go Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Regarding Pop... just given his age this could be the downside of his career. However, it is worth noting that this "downside of his career" period aligns with Duncan's retirement, aging of Manu and Parker, Kawhi's injury, heavy investment in a player whose forte is the mid range game, etc.
     
  19. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Stevens is still not as valuable as a star player...
     
  20. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Yes.

    Lock the damn thread.
     
  21. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    If only the Celtics had Embiid...
     
  22. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin SoSH Member

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    Does anyone know the length of his contract extension? Is it forever?
     
  23. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    I think by "downside" people just mean that he doesn't have a lot of time left. He also seems to have checked out mentally a bit with Kawhi's situation and the tragedy with his wife.
     
  24. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Is it possible that good coaches of the adjustments/play calling types are more important in the playoffs than in the regular season because you face the same team several times in a row and have so much more time to analyze and plan?
     
  25. grandsalami

    grandsalami lurker

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    Can we analyze his away record a little more?
     
  26. LondonSox

    LondonSox Robert the Deuce SoSH Member

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    I understand the love and I think he's fantastic but Colin is bad for your health

    Edit Stevens not Colin in case that was unclear
     
  27. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    I don't disagree. I was on a youtube bender.
     
  28. benhogan

    benhogan Baynes Hogan SoSH Member

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    get the pot of coffee ready for Monday and fire up the YouTube.
     
  29. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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  30. bosockboy

    bosockboy Member SoSH Member

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    Still amazed how he got almost an entirely new team from last season, down its 2 best players, to gel into a cohesive unit this quickly. It’s just ridiculous.
     
  31. Reverend

    Reverend for king and country Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    So, is Hayward gonna get a Brad-Bump on the Celtics beyond his "normal" ability?

    Wasn't Brad his college coach?
     
  32. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    I'd say yes. Snyder did a good job with him in Utah, but he is going to be deployed here with a constantly spaced floor, in really advantageous situations. If his health is back, Gordon is going to look amazing in this system.
     
  33. jmcc5400

    jmcc5400 Member SoSH Member

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  34. DannyDarwinism

    DannyDarwinism Member SoSH Member

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    Those were incredible.

    And since our best player is so unassuming that he doesn’t have his own thread, I’ll put this here:



    The Dad memes are perfect for him. NBA twitter can be a weird, hilarious supplement to the game itself, and the league and the players are in on it- just look at this from Adam Silver.

     
  35. Soxy Brown

    Soxy Brown Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Damn, those q-and-a's from Silver are super interesting. NESN does the same split screen thing during commercials on Red Sox games. Makes a ton of sense as it doesn't feel like a "break" and does a good job of keeping me from changing the channel to something else (and potentially not going back). It's a good way to leverage the unique advantages of being a live broadcast, and makes me wonder if we ever see, say, a live news broadcast do something similar (or maybe they already are and I just haven't seen it).
     
  36. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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  37. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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  38. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    More ATO stuff:


    There's also video on twitter now of Stevens running the same play he ran to Horford in college.
     
  39. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

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    Hmm, I'm not 100% sure if this is sincere, but if so, I think I may disagree when you factor in longevity. Stevens is 28 years younger than Gregg Popovich, so in theory gives you another 20-30 years of elite coaching if you play your cards right. By contrast, standard-bearers LeBron and KD may have only 4-5 years left in their primes; and young studs like Giannis, Tatum and Embiid who in theory may have another 10-12 years of elite production also carry risks of injury, unforeseen decline in performance, bolting in free agency, random trade demands, etc.

    Add in the fact that the coach's salary doesn't count against the cap and I don't think it's that unreasonable to think of Stevens as the #1 asset in the NBA.
     
  40. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

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    Really interesting stuff from a Commish. This is roughly the same way my company, a digital publisher, would approach data to improve the user/reader experience. I wonder how far they'd take it beyond cosmetic changes (timeout # and length) to try to anticipate rule/game changes that would appeal to viewers, rather than the high profile screw-ups that are the standard impetus for such changes across sports.
     
  41. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    Worth a try:

     
  42. johnnycomelately

    johnnycomelately lurker

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  43. bakahump

    bakahump Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I have only a little football knowledge and almost no BB knowledge. But, aided by recent events and certainly to change when Bill wins #6, I am saying right now that Stevens is a better coach in his respective sport then BB is in his.

    BB while awesome has basically always had the equivalent to Lebron James on his team. IE the Best player on the field. While I get that LBJ can impact both ends and probably has more impact on a game in its entirety then Brady (though its a interesting debate), the advantage that BB has had having Brady in house is incredible.

    Imagine Stevens with James during his peak.

    I cant believe how well thought of he is (deservedly so) in Boston and the NBA in general and doesnt yet have a championship.
     
  44. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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    I, for one, will never forget when Bill Belichick traded ten years of first round picks to acquire quarterback legend in waiting, Tom Brady, first in the NFL draft. And thank god he did.
     
  45. lovegtm

    lovegtm Member SoSH Member

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    When we talk about the value of a coach vs the value of stars, we need to be clear as to what we're talking about.

    If you're asking whether a team would rather have LeBron James for one season, or replace him with an ok player and have Brad Stevens coach, the answer is obviously LeBron.

    However, once you start talking about 5 year+ timeframes, the decision gets a lot harder. Forget the fact that the coach doesn't count against the cap, even though that's huge. Brad has effectively given the Celtics more star players than most teams get, simply by developing and utilizing talent extremely well. I seriously doubt that Tatum, Brown and Rozier would have improved to this level playing on the Suns.

    Then you add in the fact that the fact that Stevens can win with lesser talent makes the team attractive for players like Horford, Irving, and Hayward, and he starts to look possibly more valuable than a star player.

    TLDR; players win games in the NBA, but the quality of development and coaching determine the players you have.
     
  46. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    I don't want to distract from lovegtm's excellent post or that line of conversation, but baka, this is absolute nonsense. As anyone who's closely watched most of the BB era can tell you, Belichick has play designs routinely, several times a game in all 3 phases, which out-coach and exploit the other team. He makes the most of his resources in roster construction, in matchups, in play design, in player role- and expectation-setting, and in the snap in-game judgments in play calling, timeouts, substitutions, etc. He has lots of help, and he's not infallible, but a close observer has seen opposing coach after coach routinely flub their lines or fail to account for something that Belichick has seen in his sleep - basically, the error rate for Belichick is much, much lower than other coaches, and it has spoiled us rotten. And there was nothing in the 2017 Patriots' season to make us think that he's lost his fastball: he was, ya know, in the super bowl, late in the 4th quarter needing to drive the field once with Tom Brady to tie the game.

    And that's in a sport where preparation is everything and coaching can make an incredible degree of difference, far more than in (say) baseball or hockey. The whole game, so to speak, is about play design, reading opponents' tendencies, and exploiting matchups. What we're praising Stevens for here, in a few ATO plays per game, is essentially the entirety of the job for BB and his staff, and he's doing it 80 times per game on each side of the ball. And doing it in a sport where you have 53 players and 11 of them are on the field at once, so it's geometrically more complex than in basketball.

    Stevens is more analogous to Jaylen Brown. We've seen flashes of brilliance, we've seen tons of improvement, we've seen oodles of potential... but he hasn't yet had the fullness of success or the consistency of long-term performance to put him in the same category as HOF-level coaches, nevermind GOAT-level coaches in his or other sports. He has everything you'd want to see in a basketball coach, including charisma and the ability to get his players to believe in him and buy in, but let's not go over-the-top here with the recency bias.
     
  47. bakahump

    bakahump Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Van Everyman, Not sure what your point was. While I agree (Instaface I really do) that BB is the greatest ever and my post was mostly in fun, caught up in the amazing playoff ride, I do have a bit of trouble giving him full credit for TB. IMHO (and we have established what thats worth) It was maybe 50% BB seeing something and 50% luck. With a bit from each 50% accounting for Bradys work ethic and competitiveness.

    Was it awesome that BB took TB 199th and he became the GOAT QB? Of course. Did BB even conceive that was a possibility? I am not so sure. I think Van brings up a good side point in that in any discussion about BB you have to give him alot of GM credit (while subtracting a few debits) in combination with his amazing coaching career.
    That aside, this is about Stevens.

    I am certainly not trying to denigrate BB. I think when we are done Stevens will be a HoF coach. You are right Instaface, probably not GOAT Basketball coach of all time but a surefire HoFer, and quite possible top 10 ish of all times. He certainly has time to accumulate stats and it seems the players to compete for at least a few Championship moving forward.

    My point was that BB has had the huge advantage (self provided to a large degree) of Tom Brady. While Stevens has made his coaching fame making Chicken Cordon Blue out of Chicken crap. I will love to see what he can do with Kyrie, Jayson, Jaylen and Gordon. So far he has shown that he isnt just good with Mediocre to good players but can integrate Future HoFers in as well. Those are all good signs. Taking down a dynasty like the Warriors ( hopefully next year) and competing in the future against another strong rival (Philly) will only improve his coaching credentials.

    I admit some recency bias, and tongue in check referenced it by saying BB will move ahead of Stevens once again when he wins his 6th SB. That was by no means a dig at BB. And I dont really harbor any negativity towards him for losing this past SB, Butler or no Butler. I am just really enjoying this ride and Stevens ability to get everything out of a few good players, a couple journey men and a couple really young guys.

    I guess in summary we are truly lucky to have Stevens and BB as both are amazing coaches who make their teams better then the sum of their parts. And isnt that all we can ask for?

    But I will be excited to see what Stevens can do with a full season of great players.
     
  48. DannyDarwinism

    DannyDarwinism Member SoSH Member

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    Coaches' Association names Casey "Coach of the Year"

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/09/sports/nba-dwane-casey-raptors-coach-of-the-year.html

    Meh, OK. But this?

    Casey is also regarded as a top contender for the N.B.A.’s Coach of the Year award and, according to the people with knowledge of the voting for the N.B.C.A. award, was one of just eight coaches to receive votes in the balloting. The other seven coaches to receive votes from their peers were Philadelphia’s Brett Brown, Houston’s Mike D’Antoni, Indiana’s Nate McMillan, San Antonio’s Gregg Popovich, Utah’s Quin Snyder, Portland’s Terry Stotts and the Los Angeles Clippers’ Doc Rivers.

    Lolwut?
     
  49. Eddie Jurak

    Eddie Jurak Go Leafs Go Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I wonder if some coaches are unhappy with the publicity Stevens has gotten of late.
     
  50. Average Game James

    Average Game James Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Did Doc vote for himself?
     

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