Summer League 2023

Tony C

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They are both going to be very good players for a long time if they get healthy. Wemby's got 3 extra inches. Both players will be incredible off ball defenders. Both will have times where their on ball matchup is problematic. I think Wemby is a level above Chet, but I think they will likely both make a lot of all star teams
I think this is just right. No one was dismissing Wemby based on one Summer Lg game, just saying the uber-prospect label at an LBJ level (that's been a common theme/comparison in commentary, not just by some rando enthusiasts) was pre-mature. Being a great prospect and a deserved #1 pick is not dismissing him.
 

slamminsammya

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I think this is just right. No one was dismissing Wemby based on one Summer Lg game, just saying the uber-prospect label at an LBJ level (that's been a common theme/comparison in commentary, not just by some rando enthusiasts) was pre-mature. Being a great prospect and a deserved #1 pick is not dismissing him.
Ben Taylor on his podcast made the point that it's become increasingly rare for prospects to be truly can't miss because the game has become so skilled / sophisticated etc. The last rookie to make an all star game was either Yao or Blake Griffin depending on how you feel about Blake being a rookie, so that's two in the last 25 years. And it used to happen quite a bit!

Back in the day a big man with size and skill down low was basically guaranteed to be a good player. Like there was no way Kareem was not going to be at least a very good player right away. That kind of certainty just doesn't exist anymore.
 

reggiecleveland

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Was your sarcasm meter in the shop?
Well, I thought all the Romeo posts were sarcastic and it turned out people actually thought he was a really good player. Let's not forget the really earnest "When Larry Bird was Tatum's age..." comments that flooded the board until Tatum turned 24. I believe there were heated exchanges as to whether Ted Williams or Lou Gehrig were better comps for Lars Anderson.
It is hard to underestimate the rosiness of prospect glasses on this board.
 

TripleOT

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Well, I thought all the Romeo posts were sarcastic and it turned out people actually thought he was a really good player. Let's not forget the really earnest "When Larry Bird was Tatum's age..." comments that flooded the board until Tatum turned 24. I believe there were heated exchanges as to whether Ted Williams or Lou Gehrig were better comps for Lars Anderson.
It is hard to underestimate the rosiness of prospect glasses on this board.
I found it ironic that Walsh came out and hit his first three three pointers.

He might be two or three years away from playing rotation minutes for a contender, or he might be one of those rare guys who grab a small role on a good team right away. Or he could never be an NBA player. It wouldn’t be too much of a stretch to say that Walsh could easily have an age 21 season at least as good as Grant Williams, whose rookie year wasn‘t great.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Ben Taylor on his podcast made the point that it's become increasingly rare for prospects to be truly can't miss because the game has become so skilled / sophisticated etc. The last rookie to make an all star game was either Yao or Blake Griffin depending on how you feel about Blake being a rookie, so that's two in the last 25 years. And it used to happen quite a bit!

Back in the day a big man with size and skill down low was basically guaranteed to be a good player. Like there was no way Kareem was not going to be at least a very good player right away. That kind of certainty just doesn't exist anymore.
Rookies are a lot younger these days than they were 25 years ago.

Also, in my opinion, the level of play in college is lower than 25 years ago.
 

Euclis20

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Rookies are a lot younger these days than they were 25 years ago.

Also, in my opinion, the level of play in college is lower than 25 years ago.
It's boring to say it's just age, but it's just age. Blake was 21 as a rookie, Yao was 22 (and boosted by the Chinese vote, he made the team every year of his career, even his last season when he scored 51 total points all year). Only three guys in last year's lottery were 21 or older during this past season, and I don't think it's a giant coincidence that that group included two of the more impactful rookies (Murray, Jalen Williams and Agbaji). A year or two at that age is just huge for physical development, 25+ years ago top prospects routinely played 3-4 years in college before going pro, it makes perfect sense that with those same sorts of guys playing just 1-2 years in college now, they aren't quite as ready for the league as rookies.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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It's boring to say it's just age, but it's just age. Blake was 21 as a rookie, Yao was 22 (and boosted by the Chinese vote, he made the team every year of his career, even his last season when he scored 51 total points all year). Only three guys in last year's lottery were 21 or older during this past season, and I don't think it's a giant coincidence that that group included two of the more impactful rookies (Murray, Jalen Williams and Agbaji). A year or two at that age is just huge for physical development, 25+ years ago top prospects routinely played 3-4 years in college before going pro, it makes perfect sense that with those same sorts of guys playing just 1-2 years in college now, they aren't quite as ready for the league as rookies.
In addition, the competition level of college isn't as high as it used to be only because something like the best 50-ish college players are playing (or sitting on a bench) in the NBA (or overseas).

edit:
Why would the college level be worse than 25 years ago?
Because colleges are cycling through the top guys, IMO neither the skill level nor the level of team play is as high as it was 25+ years ago.
 

benhogan

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I found it ironic that Walsh came out and hit his first three three pointers.

He might be two or three years away from playing rotation minutes for a contender, or he might be one of those rare guys who grab a small role on a good team right away. Or he could never be an NBA player. It wouldn’t be too much of a stretch to say that Walsh could easily have an age 21 season at least as good as Grant Williams, whose rookie year wasn‘t great.
Grant played in every Celtic playoff game his rookie year, when they went to the EC Finals. Even some end of game situations.

I'd be happy if Walsh was there in a few seasons

Why would the college level be worse than 25 years ago?
In the good ole days, Derrick Coleman & Patrick Ewing would stick around 4 seasons. Now they are out the door after one season or signing up for Overtime Elite instead

The talent would be developed in good college systems for 3-4 seasons while John Thompson & Jim Boeheim made sure boosters sorted out their stars (JK). The best NCAA teams would have an identity. That really doesn't exist anymore (especially with the transfer window)
 

slamminsammya

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Because the best players rarely stay two years, let alone three or four?
25 years ago these guys weren't even going to college. Is that the point? I guess having more talented guys playing one or two years is counterbalanced by the lack of continuity but I'm skeptical.

Also this affects what, 20 guys a year? Does that really impact the entire college landscape that much?
 

reggiecleveland

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It's boring to say it's just age, but it's just age. Blake was 21 as a rookie, Yao was 22 (and boosted by the Chinese vote, he made the team every year of his career, even his last season when he scored 51 total points all year). Only three guys in last year's lottery were 21 or older during this past season, and I don't think it's a giant coincidence that that group included two of the more impactful rookies (Murray, Jalen Williams and Agbaji). A year or two at that age is just huge for physical development, 25+ years ago top prospects routinely played 3-4 years in college before going pro, it makes perfect sense that with those same sorts of guys playing just 1-2 years in college now, they aren't quite as ready for the league as rookies.
It's okay all those young guys, tatum the most conspicuous example are are ripe for memes about points scored at a particular age, especially if you throw in steals or some other stat that wasn't around when Wilt played.
 

Jimbodandy

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25 years ago these guys weren't even going to college. Is that the point? I guess having more talented guys playing one or two years is counterbalanced by the lack of continuity but I'm skeptical.

Also this affects what, 20 guys a year? Does that really impact the entire college landscape that much?
25 years ago, most of these guys were going to 4 year schools for 4 years. Yes, some guys, usually bigs, skipped college altogether. But college was still stock full of elite guys back then. Now, if you're truly elite, you play 1 year and jump. So it's not really 20 guys per year. It's more like 60, since just about every guy who was drafted high this time would have been in school next year and the year after and the year after that.

I'm not at all arguing that this is a bad thing. Good for the kids for monetizing their skills rather than being stuck in a restrictive system. And the overall shooting level continues to rise at most levels for 3s and such. Maybe you like the game better now, and that's fair. But colleges don't have the artificial barrier keeping elite players there anymore. Not sure how this is even an argument. Elite players for 1 year vs. 4 years seems obvious.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Makes sense. They got his feet wet, he handled adversity well, had some success, and now he gets ready for camp.
 

BigSoxFan

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Makes sense. They got his feet wet, he handled adversity well, had some success, and now he gets ready for camp.
Strength and conditioning program more important than a few scrimmages. Curious to see if he can add a few pounds.
 

Kliq

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Lofton is an interesting player because he probably needs to lose weight to be quick enough to play at the NBA level, but his game is also kind of reliant on him using his bulk and center of gravity to create space near the rim.
 

Just a bit outside

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Lofton is an interesting player because he probably needs to lose weight to be quick enough to play at the NBA level, but his game is also kind of reliant on him using his bulk and center of gravity to create space near the rim.
He is killing it in summer league for the second year in a row but he is to small height wise and is a really poor defender. Fun but no real role in the nba.
 

TripleOT

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The Celtics again looking like trash in the first half against the Lakers. LA looks organized at both ends. Boston looks like a bad pickup team. Banton not providing the kind of stabilization one would thing he would. JDD continues to look shaky.
 
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Kliq

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Celtics better after a rough start. The announcing has just been a Laker love fest.
 

Just a bit outside

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At the game. Walsh is fun. Tons of energy and emotion. Emotion definitely gets the better of him at times. Looked down on himself in the first half when he would miss. A lot of shaking his head. Thankfully he keeps playing hard.
Davidaon has been more aggressive in the second half and it has made a difference. Scrubb should have a spot if it is done by merit.
 

Kliq

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Castleton seems like a textbook Duke player, it's amazing he didn't go there.
 

benhogan

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At the game. Walsh is fun. Tons of energy and emotion. Emotion definitely gets the better of him at times. Looked down on himself in the first half when he would miss. A lot of shaking his head. Thankfully he keeps playing hard.
Davidaon has been more aggressive in the second half and it has made a difference. Scrubb should have a spot if it is done by merit.
Scrubb should get some consideration
 

Kliq

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It was a really impressive quarter from Walsh. I remain optimistic about his shooting, his form looks good and his release isn't that slow. Really excited to see more from The Vampyre.
 

TripleOT

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Walsh’s energy in the third quarter helped turn this game around for the Celtics. Banton and JJD did a good job running the offense in the second half.
 

Kliq

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Walsh’s energy in the third quarter helped turn this game around for the Celtics. Banton and JJD did a good job running the offense in the second half.
He's like a KG-level psycho in terms of yelling and having excess energy after the whistle.
 

mikeot

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Helluva game, C’s surged in the third quarter after being behind by double digits, and made it to the end on an inspired performance by Walsh for their first win. Beat the Lakers and ended their 3-0 run, so sweet.
 

Euclis20

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Walsh is really something to watch, a 7'3 wingspan at his level of energy is no joke. He needs to have the shot and his energy shouldn't remind anyone of Aaron Nesmith (committing a defensive foul before the ball is inbounded in the closing seconds of a close game is a rough look), but he's off to a good start.
 

Just a bit outside

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Hornets didn’t score for the first 8 minutes and 20 seconds to start the game today. Down 18-0 when they finally scored. 2 of first 3 possessions were 24 second violations. ‍SMH
 

128

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You'd think Jaylen Brown was playing with the Summer C's with how much they've turned the ball over in the first quarter.
 

128

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Banton playing better in this one. He has serious length for a guard.
 

mikeot

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Jamal Crawford and Stephanie Reade are better announcers than any of the ESPN crew IMO.