This is where I'm at. A ground ball inducing, no-name rotation would have been heralded as genius if it worked. But it didn't. So the needle starts to move away from the fringe. It doesn't mean Henry's collecting everyone's calculators, it means he looking for a better balance.jtn46 said:Even if Dombrowki's sole direction is to throw money at big ticket FA's that beats Cherington's attempt to outsmart the league by spending a big ticket payroll on second tier players. If you gamble the way Cherington did, you simply need to hit more often than he did.
soxhop411 said:“@redsoxstats: McAdam says on csnne that it sounds like none of Cherington’s lieutenants are staying. Total overhaul.”
Hopefully that does not mean our international scouting department is out.
Wren had solid bullpens in Atlanta.adam42381 said:I'm happy that they're making a move, but really don't want Wren taking over for Ben. Holding out hopes, however slim, for Beane.
FanSinceBoggs said:
There is no evidence for this. Sandoval, in particular, seems like a good team guy, a leader.
Really? Pedroia, Swihart, Betts are to become trade fodder? Wow, I certainly hope not.Buzzkill Pauley said:The difference is, what did the core of the Red Sox look like after 2012? And even with Gonzalez, Beckett, and Crawford gone, the core was damn good.
Now with the Sox, and when Dombrowski first took over the Tigers, not so much.
Remember that Dombrowski was the guy who sold off a star in Granderson in order to acquire Scherzer before he was great. And sold off two young "studs" to get Cabrera to be his team's cornerstone.
FWIW, I think the only players who really may qualify as "untouchable" at this moment are Ortiz, Bogaerts, EdRo, Moncada, Kopech, and Espinoza. The pitching from AA-MLB is so bad that to build a pennant-winning staff, everyone else needs to be on the table.
And based on Dombrowski's whole corpus of work, not just the last few years trying to get Detroit a title on the core strength of Cabrera, Verlander, and Scherzer that it's just as likely vets get moved for top prospects as the other way around.
Maybe he can ask DD for tips.TheYaz67 said:
"Blame the owner" is probably not a great strategy, when you are interviewing with other team owners for a new job, so Ben's going to have to come up with something better than that to land his next gig.
Not to mention the manager is the guy who kept trotting Nathan and Valverde's decaying corpses out there at the end of games when they were no longer the best options.foulkehampshire said:If you look at the Tiger's bullpens since 2011, its really not the nightmare we make it out to be. Most years they were 1 guy away from being decent. Soria, Alberquerque, Benoit were a solid top 3. All they lacked was a shutdown closer.
Take away Miller and Koji and the Sox are in pretty rough shape, as evidenced by 2015. I think the board is over-maligning the bullpen issue due to playoff duds in postseasons.
Detroit was pretty strapped for RP help due to over-allocation of resources to marquee FA and a barren farm system. The Sox have plenty of pieces next year and money to spent to hopefully rectify the issue, and probably a more patient owner as well.
From "Three Little Birds" to "It's A Wonderful Day in the Neighborhood."Savin Hillbilly said:BTW, I had never actually looked at a picture of Dombrowski till tonight. Let the Mister Rogers era commence!
The Red Sox have only been out "thrown" when it comes to money by the Tigers once this century (2008) and the Sox were next in the payroll line.yecul said:Anyone taking over this team will look like a genius when the fruit ripens. The key thing to watch is how aggressive they are to lock in a winner. Easy to see trading future for now to satiate the masses.
I was never terribly impressed with DD in Detroit. Put together good teams but pretty top heavy, overly reliant on throwing around the money and lacked at the fringes at times. Sacrificing long term stability and fexibilitu and coherency with big ticket contracts can work but not over the long haul.
We will see. I think that BC missed his fair share but I felt he was hitting it in the long term areas.
nvalvo said:http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/transactions/_/name/det/detroit-tigers
That list of transactions conveniently covers Dombrowski's time in Detroit.
TheYaz67 said:
"Blame the owner" is probably not a great strategy, when you are interviewing with other team owners for a new job, so Ben's going to have to come up with something better than that to land his next gig.
Ben has spent but he spent on the wrong players.MuzzyField said:The Red Sox have only been out "thrown" when it comes to money by the Tigers once this century (2008) and the Sox were next in the payroll line.
Ben has been spending, too.
Like I said about 30-HR hitting, All-Star CF Curtis Granderson, it isn't fodder, when the trade gets you five years of Max Scherzer before Free Agency.SoxLegacy said:Really? Pedroia, Swihart, Betts are to become trade fodder? Wow, I certainly hope not.
Pedroia is not trade fodder. Betts is probably not trade fodder. Swihart might well become trade fodder if one of the young, cost-controlled stud starters are in play.SoxLegacy said:Really? Pedroia, Swihart, Betts are to become trade fodder? Wow, I certainly hope not.
Savin Hillbilly said:I think all this talking about certain prospects as off limits is missing the point. Nobody should be off limits. The question is always what the return is and how the entire body of transactions affects the long term.
I can never tell if people are serious when they say stuff like this. Did you totally miss the post-signing mishegas with Sandoval dishing on his ex-teammates? He acted like a passive-aggressive, narcissistic little shit.
Sandoval has already made quite an impression on his new teammates and coaches. . .[he] is considered a leader despite his short time with the organization."
http://nesn.com/2015/03/pablo-sandoval-defends-comments-about-giants-shows-love-for-red-sox/
Green Monster said:Perhaps a David Price signing this fall?
Buzzkill Pauley said:And based on Dombrowski's whole corpus of work, not just the last few years trying to get Detroit a title on the core strength of Cabrera, Verlander, and Scherzer that it's just as likely vets get moved for top prospects as the other way around.
FanSinceBoggs said:
He had problems with the Giants organization, less problems with teammates, right? It is my understanding he was a bit of a leader with the Giants. That isn't correct?
foulkehampshire said:
With Ortiz on the roster?
Ortiz would be the first one to greet him and welcome him to Boston.Harry Hooper said:I assume this is a joke. Ortiz would be thrilled to have any high-quality starter join the staff.
I think Dombrowski would be willing to trade Pedroia, and for the right price it makes plenty of baseball sense. I don't think the owners would agree though.Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat said:Pedroia is not trade fodder. Betts is probably not trade fodder. Swihart might well become trade fodder if one of the young, cost-controlled stud starters are in play.
"I don't think people want to hear about the minor league system," he said. "People want results."
Cellar-Door said:I think Dombrowski would be willing to trade Pedroia, and for the right price it makes plenty of baseball sense. I don't think the owners would agree though.
Harry Hooper said:
Pedroia has to agree too, I believe.
People evolve in their stances. Hopefully DD has.sfederman said:I was just reading an article on the 2002 housecleaning 6 games in that DD did, and noticed an interesting quote:
They won't make a move to replace Ben till probably after the last out of the World Series. There's only two weeks left of any meaningful changes a GM can make before then (or whenever the waiver deadline is), so I'm sure they'll take their sweet time and really examine all avenues open to them. Same goes with manager.soxhop411 said:So how long until a GM is hired? I think we get news by the end of next week.
FanSinceBoggs said:Is there any evidence to support the claim that Sandoval is a bad teammate in Boston or bad for team chemistry? Is there any evidence to support the claim that Hanley is a bad teammate in Boston or bad for team chemistry? I don't think so. Many of us want Hanley out of here because he can't play defense -- he is fine as a teammate.
This is exactly what I see when I think about Ortiz and his quest for 500 with the Sox. He is the elder statesman, the face of the Sox.Cellar-Door said:I think Dombrowski would be willing to trade Pedroia, and for the right price it makes plenty of baseball sense. I don't think the owners would agree though.
So basically you mean you're going to speculate wildly without any evidence of any unwillingness on the part of either?nothumb said:
I don't know where the line is between "teammate" and "player," but to me, the fact that both have shown an unwillingness or inability to put in work and adjust (Pablo based on his weight, Hanley based on his inability to play any kind of defense) is not good for the clubhouse or the rest of the team. What is a guy like JBJ supposed to think when the two highest paid guys on the team can't even stay on the field or away from a buffet? If I'm investing 20M/year in a player I want it to be someone who other guys look at and understand why he deserves it, unequivocally. I mean, I also want it to be a guy worth 20M/year if possible, that's primary, but having a locker room where the best players make the least money, and where a guy like Brock Holt or JBJ has to be willing to play wherever whenever while Hanley apparently can't even think about switching positions without spraining something... it is not good.
Thirteen years is also a very long time for opinions to change or a quote to be out of context.sfederman said:I was just reading an article on the 2002 housecleaning 6 games in that DD did, and noticed an interesting quote:
mikeford said:The spectre of Frank Wren terrifies me. The guy thought giving 75 mil to BJ UPTON was a good idea.
Cellar-Door said:So basically you mean you're going to speculate wildly without any evidence of any unwillingness on the part of either?
canderson said:Thirteen years is also a very long time for opinions to change or a quote to be out of context.
soxhop411 said:People evolve in their stances. Hopefully DD has.
What should be more chilling is the mention that the Tigers' last winning season before the article was written was 9 seasons prior.nvalvo said:
That's chilling.