Dismiss Notice
Guest, I have a big favor to ask you. We've been working very hard to establish ourselves on social media. If you like/follow our pages it would be a HUGE help to us. SoSH on Facebook and Inside the Pylon Thanks! Nip

Price is right

Discussion in 'Red Sox Forum' started by In my lifetime, May 8, 2018.

  1. DeadlySplitter

    DeadlySplitter Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,592
    good story here behind paywall, I'll quote a couple relevant parts https://theathletic.com/619436/2018...transformation-into-boston-icon-complete-now/

     
  2. DennyDoyle'sBoil

    DennyDoyle'sBoil Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill SoSH Member

    Messages:
    25,328
    To me it's not just that he pitched well in these postseason games but it's also how he did it.

    A guy took him deep on the first pitch of the game last night and for the first two innings and an out he looked like he was on fumes. He couldn't locate very well. He got a very well timed double play ball but even so he was going 3-2 to most batters and he had a 9-pitch at bat where we were a bit lucky Machado didn't hit a mistake. But he gutted it out. He looked like he was laboring. He wasn't locating.

    But then something amazing happened. JD misplayed a fly ball. And it was like a jolt of lightening. To that point -- through 2.1 innings -- he had thrown 44 pitches and only 56.9 percent strikes. And then he simply bore down and picked up his teammate. He got out of that inning and he never looked back.

    After the Freese triple, Price retired 14 in a row. To those 14 batters he threw a total of eight balls. Eight! And it's not like he could just pound the zone because he had a big lead. For most of the time he had a 1 or 2 run lead to work with.

    Who knows what was going through his head, but he was two completely different pitchers before and after that misplay by JD. It's almost like he decided he was not going to let his teammate fail and a light switch went on.

    David F-ing Price was nails.
     
  3. HomeBrew1901

    HomeBrew1901 Has Season 1 of "Manimal" on Blu Ray SoSH Member

    Messages:
    9,224
    He's still a prick. Everything he did this week doesn't change that, he still went after Eckersley and proved last night he's still just as thin skinned by his press conference and tweets.

    Here's the thing though, I don't care if he's a prick or not, I don't have to like everyone on the Red Sox. I've held my nose and cheered for bigger A holes that have done far worse than being sensitive. He was a big part of the reason they won the World Series and I hope he comes back next year because his performance was almost legendary.
     
  4. ledsox

    ledsox Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    226
    I love that he told his teammates that he was going to be the WS MVP.
    This was the night before the opening day loss to TB (as told by him). The guy is a stud.
     
  5. Smiling Joe Hesketh

    Smiling Joe Hesketh All Hail King Boron Dope

    Messages:
    30,256
    That unbelievable. Eight balls over 14 batters? My God.
     
  6. JohntheBaptist

    JohntheBaptist Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    11,290
    Holy mother of god.
     
  7. DennyDoyle'sBoil

    DennyDoyle'sBoil Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill SoSH Member

    Messages:
    25,328
    Yeah, it really is unbelievable. In fact, it was so unbelievable that after you guys responded I figured I better go back and double check because there's really no way it could be possible. And, naturally, I screwed it up. I'm sorry.

    It was nine! ;0)
     
  8. gedman211

    gedman211 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,121
    9 Balls?!!! Then I hope the prick opts out.
     
  9. drbretto

    drbretto guidence counselor SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,935
    I feel like this postseason meant more to David Price than it did to anyone. He wanted to change that perception of him and he absolutely crushed it. I am so happy for this dude.

    He's not going anywhere. I love that chip on his shoulder. He uses it the way New Englanders would want. He's a Red Sock 4 lyfe. I'm not sure what his HoF chances are (I'm not claiming he is or isn't here), he would end up going in with a Red Sox hat, I think.
     
  10. OurF'ingCity

    OurF'ingCity Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    2,604
    That's a good way of thinking about it. I mean, Pedro was a dick too for much of his Red Sox career until he softened a bit in his later years (I forget the details but I remember something from his autobiography where he said he refused to tip his cap to the Fenway fans after his starts because he got booed early on in his Sox career one time).
     
  11. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    48,030
    That’s a great post. Oh, it’s by DDB, who has a very high GPA (great post average).
     
  12. troparra

    troparra Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,821
    He turned into Greg Maddux.
     
  13. Monbo Jumbo

    Monbo Jumbo Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    23,998
    In my first trip to Fenway in 19 years, I saw his complete game in May from some pretty good seats.
    I haven't doubted him since.

    Thin-skinned?
    I see that guy in the mirror every day.
     
  14. DennyDoyle'sBoil

    DennyDoyle'sBoil Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill SoSH Member

    Messages:
    25,328
    Thanks Al. I get one right here and there -- blind squirrel and the nut and all that.

    Isn't it completely messed up that we now have enough championships in recent history that in addition to just winning you can actually have winning and an amazing narrative? 2004 will never really be beat, but you know the Sox didn't just win but they get to do it with this amazing redemption story for David Price. It's like icing on the cake.

    He teared up in the presser last night when asked about how it felt to have his teammates talk about what a great teammate he is. I think he takes that stuff seriously. I really believe that he felt it was his job to do whatever he could to pick JD up from his misplay.
     
  15. LesterFan

    LesterFan Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    10,057
    https://sports.yahoo.com/inside-story-boston-red-sox-won-2018-world-series-134956118.html
     
  16. MakeMineMoxie

    MakeMineMoxie Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    592
    I was not thrilled when they signed him, he had too much of the Jo Maddon Tampa Stink still lingering. That said, once signed, I obviously wanted him to do well. It appears he has done that!

    I hope he stays since the Sox have a chance to win again in 2019. That, and I want to see him go into Yankee Stadium and stomp on their testicles. That's the only hill he has left to conquer.
     
  17. chawson

    chawson Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    1,324
  18. DeadlySplitter

    DeadlySplitter Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,592
    I feel like the analytics / technology is making tipping that much easier to do. Any slight difference in pitching delivery, I bet advance scouting is trying to correlate it to pitch types, and if it's a high correlation, you got tipping.

    So when everyone says how is the team not catching this sooner / needing outside people like Gagne to catch it, I say, you gotta be perfect on mechanics or you might get exploited in today's game.
     
  19. BroodsSexton

    BroodsSexton Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,240
    Yeah but if other teams can do that analysis based on mechanics and pitch type, then we should be running that analysis on our pitchers too.
     
  20. santadevil

    santadevil Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,614
  21. DeadlySplitter

    DeadlySplitter Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,592
    so another group split the vote, two for Pearce alone, one for Price alone.

    it was extremely close, and hey Pearce maybe got a little contract bonus for it. onwards.
     
  22. Byrdbrain

    Byrdbrain Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,920
    What a dumb way to do voting, just give two guys from each organization or 10 guys from different organization votes. Why bother doing this if they can then just split their votes anyway.
     
  23. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

    Messages:
    17,371
    Who decided to give a vote to the Herald, did they draw out of a hat?

    Either was fine with me. I’d prob have gone Price but Pearce benefits more. All good. But yes, dumb process.
     
  24. ricopetro6

    ricopetro6 lurker

    Messages:
    1,530
    ^ that's crazy..The group that wanted co-MVPs and voting that way actually made Pearce win it 3-2.

    rdit: and needing the vote in the 7th inning is just dumb, anything could still happen.
     
  25. ricopetro6

    ricopetro6 lurker

    Messages:
    1,530
    right, voting process obviously not thought through.
     
  26. Byrdbrain

    Byrdbrain Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,920
    It wasn't given to the Herald, Silverman was voting on behalf of the BWAA. "J.P. Hoornstra of the Southern California News Group and I shared the Baseball Writers Association of America’s vote for World Series MVP. We were one of five members of the electorate. The others were FOX Sports, ESPN Radio, MLB Network World Feed and MLB.com."
     
  27. ricopetro6

    ricopetro6 lurker

    Messages:
    1,530
    I miss baseball
     
  28. BroodsSexton

    BroodsSexton Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,240
    Link



    HAHAHAHAHAHA. That’s right suckers they even cheat better than the Astros and Manny Machado.
     
  29. The Filthy One

    The Filthy One Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,780
    Pine tar on your glove hand is the new market efficiency?
     
  30. BroodsSexton

    BroodsSexton Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,240
    It would be too obvious if he put it on his pitching hand.
     
  31. Koji’s Slider

    Koji’s Slider Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    678
    “I’m not going anywhere”- David Price

    He’s staying

     
  32. Brianish

    Brianish Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,765
    Wow. After his postseason performance, I would've lost money on that bet.
     
  33. Tyrone Biggums

    Tyrone Biggums nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,032
    Not shocked. Not mad. But not shocked. This pretty much seals Kimbrel leaving though. Not enough cash to go around
     
  34. BoSox Rule

    BoSox Rule Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,651
    You should still have to pay for even thinking he might opt out of 4/127.
     
  35. Brianish

    Brianish Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,765
    Fair point. I sometimes forget how much we gave him.
     
  36. Savin Hillbilly

    Savin Hillbilly loves the secret sauce SoSH Member

    Messages:
    17,915
    I'm fine with this, and was even before his postseason. Yes, the contract has been a mild overpay so far and will probably be a somewhat bigger one before it's over, but I think Price will make a great staff anchor for the next four years, helping smooth the transition when the Sox lose Sale and Porcello after next year, so they don't have to build a new rotation from scratch (which they'll be in a pretty poor position to do, with Shawaryn looking like the only prospect who might be ready to join the rotation by 2020). That's worth something, even if it isn't worth quite $30M.
     
  37. In my lifetime

    In my lifetime Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    882
    I'd say so far the RS have received no less than fair value. 9.0 WAR and a WS MVP worthy performance for 93 MM. Of course, it is unlikely that the next 4 years of the contract turn out as well. Nevertheless the contract looks a lot better now than it looked a year ago.
     
  38. dhappy42

    dhappy42 Member

    Messages:
    4,906
    What is the dollar value of 1 WAR now? A few years ago it was about $9 mil. I assume it always goes up year-to-year. Can Price be an average 3 WAR pitcher over the next three years? If he stays relatively healthy, I think so. But even if he declines somewhat, he could still be a solid #4 starter and by 2021 good #4 starters could very well be earning close to $30 mil. At the time of his signing, I thought the Sox overpaid, (not my money so I didn’t much care,) but after Price’s MVP-worthy post-season performance, I now think the Red Sox got their money’s worth no matter what happens going forward.
     
  39. TFisNEXT

    TFisNEXT Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    10,755
    It's hard to put a value on Price's performance in the ALCS and WS. I'm sure many would pay well north of 30 million AAV to get it. IF he can just stay reasonably healthy the next few seasons, it will be hard for most fans and the FO to second guess the contract.
     
  40. JimD

    JimD Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,600
    I never thought he'd seriously consider opting out and leave that much cash on the table, but if there ever was a dude to shock the world and do it, it would be him.

    I'm not convinced both are goners - I think there's a decent chance one will sign an extension or a new contract with the Sox.
     
  41. BornToRun

    BornToRun Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    10,716
    I’m completely satisfied with what we’ve gotten from David so far. Isn’t the whole point of these massive contracts to get your money’s worth in the first few years and then deal with the decline anyway? Furthermore, I think he’s the kind of pitcher that can adapt to diminishing velocity as he ages. He was firing 95-96 throughout the postseason but I know that we’ve seen him have success at around 91-92 as well. All in all, I’m happy that he’s sticking around.
     
  42. nvalvo

    nvalvo Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,619
    This is the key issue for me. He's now made the transition from a young fireballer to a mature pitcher who can get outs in different ways, so he has a chance to age pretty gracefully. And he's shown that while he may not be a prototypical ace anymore, he can put up long stretches of ace performance. His strong second half really held this pitching staff together while other pitchers were dealing with injuries.

    He'll likely need to get a surgery on that elbow at some point in the next four seasons, but then again maybe not.

    Long story short, we're paying retail prices for these wins, but as long as he can stay on the mound, it's good to have him.
     
  43. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,401
    I'm not yet convinced that he can win throwing 91-92 consistently. One of the things that he was able to do this postseason was adjust his mechanics so that he was back to throwing 93-95. Those few extra mph make a difference.
     
  44. Saints Rest

    Saints Rest Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,927
    The tweak in mechanics, which may have been linked to the issues with tipping, make me feel a lot more confident that the Price we saw in his last three starts is more like the Price we will see going forward.
     
  45. Savin Hillbilly

    Savin Hillbilly loves the secret sauce SoSH Member

    Messages:
    17,915
    Well, ideally you want to get a little more than your money's worth in the first few years so that the decline phase brings you back toward break-even, though most contracts, even the relatively good ones, wind up short of break-even in the end.

    We've gotten a bit less than money's worth from Price so far, if you're assuming $8M/WAR -- about $70M in value for a $90M-ish investment. However, that's primarily because he was hurt and only pitched about a half-year last year. If he had pitched a full season, the Sox would be very close to breaking even so far. And you could argue that his postseason this year made up most of that gap, and I wouldn't disagree.
     
  46. PedroKsBambino

    PedroKsBambino Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    21,440
    Certainly, he's better at 93-95. I have some confidence given his control and his ability to adjust his pitch mix that he'd adapt if his velo stuck down in the low 90s, too....but I agree that's not a certainty.
     
  47. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

    Messages:
    17,371
    Yes, I read it. Would you like me to rephrase? "Who gave the BBWAA vote to the guy who writes for the rag Herald?" Better?
     
  48. DennyDoyle'sBoil

    DennyDoyle'sBoil Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill SoSH Member

    Messages:
    25,328
    Yeah, how do you value postseason performance? The Red Sox have been lucky in that World Series are more than once in a generation events in the last 15 years. Still, these are incredibly rare things.

    Price had a .45 WPA in the World Series. Only Pearce was higher and I don't think anyone else was particularly close to those two. What's a half of a world series game win worth?

    Millions I think. Many millions. I know it's not that simple. But even if the Sox only were to get 4/5 level starter production from Price for the rest of the contract, I'm good.
     
    #798 DennyDoyle'sBoil, Oct 31, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  49. BornToRun

    BornToRun Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    10,716
    I’ve always been of the opinion that a World Series win makes a contract worth it. We are not celebrating a championship right now without the contributions of David Price. The contract is worth it, in my opinion, and I’d say that’s going to hold true regardless of what the next four years hold.
     
  50. InsideTheParker

    InsideTheParker Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    23,448
    Actually, I thought he looked thunderstruck when Pearce got the award.
     

Share This Page