NBA Playoffs Game Thread
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Luis Taint said:
He and Harden are NOT overrated. Harden, in particular, has upped his game the past few weeks.
Some quick thoughts:
- Harden just lost his head in the final possession. He probably had a chance to take it to the basket, but he decided to panic the ball back to Howard, who did the right thing and passed it back to him and by then the help defense was there.
- That being said, Harden was brilliant, playing a nearly flawless game and was the Rockets entire offense. Stats might prove me wrong, but he very well might have been responsible for every single one of the Rockets points in the 4th quarter. He was Jordan all game except for the final 10 seconds.
- Don't know how Houston can expect to win by putting bigs isolated against Curry on offense. He is too crafty in getting his shot off against slower defenders. Brewer seemed to do pretty decent against him.
- Houston is in the hole now, but they certainly need THAT Howard for the rest of the series to take it, he answered the bell tonight.
- I just hate the fans in Oracle. If I was a big Warriors fan I would probably love it, but as a neutral observer they are just obnoxious. The excitement about threes I can handle, the 20,000 whines after every call against the Warriors I can't.
- GS has killed Houston on simple plays, with either Bogut or Green setting an off-ball screen for Thompson or Curry and Curry and Thompson getting a great look from the corner. That needs to be the first thing Houston tackles in the film room.
- Draymond Green is an excellent all around player, but he also comes off as a giant prick.
- The fact that Mark Jackson has the best commentary job in basketball is sad.
- Textbook Bogut game on defense, he did everything he could in battling Howard and Harden when they attacked the basket.
- Houston has some players, Smith, Howard and even Harden, that sometimes make just terrible, undisciplined, plays that kill their team. You could make the case that a few less turnovers here or there could swing this series, so that is a huge, huge problem.
- I really like this series, the games are really fun to watch. I consider this the defacto finals, and I hope Houston can get back in it at home because I don't think whoever plays in the finals is going to be close.
- Harden just lost his head in the final possession. He probably had a chance to take it to the basket, but he decided to panic the ball back to Howard, who did the right thing and passed it back to him and by then the help defense was there.
- That being said, Harden was brilliant, playing a nearly flawless game and was the Rockets entire offense. Stats might prove me wrong, but he very well might have been responsible for every single one of the Rockets points in the 4th quarter. He was Jordan all game except for the final 10 seconds.
- Don't know how Houston can expect to win by putting bigs isolated against Curry on offense. He is too crafty in getting his shot off against slower defenders. Brewer seemed to do pretty decent against him.
- Houston is in the hole now, but they certainly need THAT Howard for the rest of the series to take it, he answered the bell tonight.
- I just hate the fans in Oracle. If I was a big Warriors fan I would probably love it, but as a neutral observer they are just obnoxious. The excitement about threes I can handle, the 20,000 whines after every call against the Warriors I can't.
- GS has killed Houston on simple plays, with either Bogut or Green setting an off-ball screen for Thompson or Curry and Curry and Thompson getting a great look from the corner. That needs to be the first thing Houston tackles in the film room.
- Draymond Green is an excellent all around player, but he also comes off as a giant prick.
- The fact that Mark Jackson has the best commentary job in basketball is sad.
- Textbook Bogut game on defense, he did everything he could in battling Howard and Harden when they attacked the basket.
- Houston has some players, Smith, Howard and even Harden, that sometimes make just terrible, undisciplined, plays that kill their team. You could make the case that a few less turnovers here or there could swing this series, so that is a huge, huge problem.
- I really like this series, the games are really fun to watch. I consider this the defacto finals, and I hope Houston can get back in it at home because I don't think whoever plays in the finals is going to be close.
Kliq said:
I rewatched the last 7 seconds, and when Howard got the pass -- he had a fairly open path to the hoop (with one defender deep in the paint, and one off to the right).Soxy Brown said:
If he attacks, he attracts one (or both) of these defenders.
At that point, a lob pass (or a shot of the backboard pass) to the two rockets under the board -- easy put back.
But Howard just wasn't in that take control mindset. A consequence of bad foul shooting ?
I generally agree with most of your points here but I take issue with the bolded lines.Kliq said:
First, the fans at Oracle are overrated in terms of how great and loud they are. I attend a few games each season including playoff games and its important to note that the crowds at THESE games are comprised of fewer season ticket holders and more casual fans. As we all know from the teams we follow, when they are winning the bandwagon gets crowded fast. This is no different in the ridiculously affluent Bay Area where some millennial with a high paying tech job and a need to be at the biggest events so they are representing on the Gram etc have no problem plunking down $500 or even $1k for a seat that normally goes for 10-20% of that price or even less. And the regular season ticket holders will sell some of these games as a few playoff series can come close to covering their entire season outlay. So the fans at Oracle are your typical, run of the mill "event" types who are there less for the game and more for the spectacle. Thus you get cheering at stuff that normal fans might be a bit more reserved about.
The other thing about the fans at Oracle is that they are about the same as you will see in Houston and Cleveland in terms of their enthusiasm. Just as obnoxious and loud and overreacting imho. Watch on Saturday night when its a sea of red Clutch City shirts...
Regarding Draymond Green, its anyone's prerogative to dislike him for his constant yapping but the guy undeniably plays with a high motor and does a lot of things very well for his team. And despite his propensity to constantly talk, he appears to be fairly well liked around the NBA (outside of the Clippers who reportedly cannot stand each other let alone players from other teams).
Finally, I think this series goes seven and I think Houston has a good shot to win the whole thing. They will have to play like they have the past two games but if they do, I expect that they will even this series up quickly and then who knows. This may, indeed, be the best series of the playoffs.
Dubs fan here but as a neutral, I like the no TO call, especially on the road. Push and create, especially with Harden.
Missing Dollar's Ariza pass, though, you have to call a TO.
Kliq thinks Draymond Green is a prick. One of my favorite moments was DG taking a hard, intentional (but professional) foul by Ariza in the 3rd. Both players spilled in to the seats and the refs jumped in to ensure no issue. But there was no issue, as all DG was barking was "good foul", "good foul" and slapping five with Ariza. Dude appreciates what he does, even when done on him. Ariza handled it perfectly, too. Professionals.
Missing Dollar's Ariza pass, though, you have to call a TO.
Kliq thinks Draymond Green is a prick. One of my favorite moments was DG taking a hard, intentional (but professional) foul by Ariza in the 3rd. Both players spilled in to the seats and the refs jumped in to ensure no issue. But there was no issue, as all DG was barking was "good foul", "good foul" and slapping five with Ariza. Dude appreciates what he does, even when done on him. Ariza handled it perfectly, too. Professionals.
Oh that Draymond Green, what a good sport:
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<iframe src="https://vine.co/v/eATJm6I2zEF/embed/simple" width="600" height="600" frameborder="0"></iframe><script src="https://platform.vine.co/static/scripts/embed.js"></script>
I loved the no timeout call by Houston because Barnes, who fell down after missing the layup, and Green, who got pushed under the basket on the rebounding action, were both trailing the play, giving Houston a 4 on 3 break when they brought the ball into the frontcourt (Jones was wide open, having beaten Green down the court, but Harden missed him).
Harden/Houston messed up the execution but you should always take the advantage when you have it and don't allow the other team to play a set defense.
Harden/Houston messed up the execution but you should always take the advantage when you have it and don't allow the other team to play a set defense.
Not the play I was referencing, but really? That was a tangle with nothing coming from it. No anger, no retaliation either way.Kliq said:
Kliq thinks Draymond Green is a prick. That's fine.
Kliq said:
Really? He was down on his back and held his man from getting up and giving the other team a numbers advantage. I don't know where you've played ball but I know coaches who would make players do suicides if they let the other team get a man advantage without trying to tie the guy up. That makes him a poor sport in your book? Your rec league wouldn't like any of the good players I know...
Greg29fan said:
McHale said he stood by the no-TO in his presser. He said he had what he wanted which is his alpha with the ball in his hands going down the court. It was the right call but Curry and Thompson got lucky on an almost accidental trap after Howard kicked the ball back to Harden.
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
If you were lying down and grabbed both of your opponents legs and prevented him from getting back on defense while his man streaks to the basket for an uncontested layup, you would get stomped in the face where I play (and that is at a public liberal arts college).
He'd already been stomped in the face by Ariza's shins (professional intentional, not violent). You watching?Kliq said:
Kliq said:
You do realize the difference in stakes between what is going on in the NBA playoffs and your school, right? And it has nothing to do with sportsmanship. That Vine was the equivalent to a modestly hard foul. I suspect if the positions were reversed, Ariza would have done the same thing and I would still have no problem with it. Also note that Trevor Ariza plays for this noted beacon of sportsmanship. And despite this video, I don't think people outside of LA would call McHale a dirty player either.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7r6vXeOfyQ&ab_channel=KenCileli
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
The only reason I brought up what would happen at my school is because you started with the "I don't know where you play..." nonsense. To me, Green's actions in that play were underhanded and gave his team an unfair advantage. I am far from the only person that dislikes the way Green plays. The McHale clothesline adds nothing to the conversation so thanks for sharing that. I personally don't really like the way Green always conducts himself, while also admitting that he is also a very talented and valuable player. You guys seems to care way to much about a small point I made.
Kliq said:
Underhanded? Really? Do you watch much professional sports?
And the reason I cited McHale is that it was a good, hard foul in the context of that era's NBA but much worse than the underhanded, unfair deed that Draymond Green is accused of perpetrating on humanity. Its fair if you dislike him but please stop with the sanctimonious bullshit. You are watching the NBA playoffs.
Harden tried to attack twice then when the defense forced him to retreat he was flat-footed and passed to Howard to get it back in an attack position. He tried to attack again but as soon as he put the ball on the floor he was doubled and the ball came loose. There was no offensive set whatsoever.....McHale gambled that Harden could freelance it but the Rockets swarmed him the moment he crossed halfcourt. It's ridiculous to blame Harden for not scoring with TWO aggressive defenders all over him.Soxy Brown said:
First, right back at you in terms of admiration. I appreciate your perspective in a forum that has less than 20 active participants during a given NBA season and you clearly understand basketball on a higher level.Kliq said:
That said, I don't consider this the least bit personal nor should you. I feel that Green plays basketball the "right way" given that it is 2015. You do not. Fair enough - I would admit that he can be polarizing if you just recently started watching his style of play. However it appears to me that the majority of players who face Golden State like the guy and given that they have far more insight into how the league works, I am inclined to defer to them.
Let's agree to disagree and move on. I am more interested in what Houston does in game three - I think DH12 gets marginalized...
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Agreed.
Howard is just as likely to go for 20-20 as he is to get in early foul trouble and play under 30 minutes. The problem with Dwight is that he gets frustrated too easily when he gets fouled. He probably gets fouled as much as any NBA player, but of course the refs are not going to call everything, but anytime he doesn't get a call he sulks and that is bad news for Houston. He just doesn't have any heart and at this point in his career he is unlikely to change. It's actually kind of sad, he used to be this awesome fun-loving, happy-go-lucky type of player but now he just seems like a brooding introvert.
Take all of that, and yet, he can still easily swing this series. Bogut is as good of a post defender as you are going find, but even he can't get Dwight under wraps. Dwight was huge down the stretch on both ends and when he is motivated he is just such a destructive physical force he can destroy the Warriors inside. If I'm the Warriors I hack him all the time, and when he missis his free throws, he goes into a funk and stops trying.
I don't think Golden State has played particularly well in this series. They have been playing in streaks and have turned the ball over a lot with careless passes. If they played this way against San Antonio or the Clippers I think they would be in huge trouble right now. There defense has been a Miami-esque on/off switch and they look bad defending the pick and roll. Yes James Harden is a special player, but Clint Capela should not be dunking all over the court.
Houston needs to focus on figuring out the elevator doors play, which as I stated above, has smoked them and allowed a bevy of open threes in the corner for Curry and Thompson, and on getting their guards through picks so Howard/Jones are not defending Curry 1-1. I think they should try Brewer more on Curry and perhaps even try Nick Johnson. I liked Johnson a lot during summer league (albeit, summer league and guarding Steph in the WCF is just a tad different) but if he has the ability just to fight over screens, then he could be a big asset for Houston.
No Cry-RE, No Love (stinks), NO PROBLEM. This Motherfucking Lebron James is on another planet.
What the playoffs have shown is what McHale said last night - the regular season does not matter. The Hawks are hurting, for sure, but they clearly are inferior to the LeBron-led Cavs. I love Steph Curry but until proven otherwise, LeBron is the true MVP in that he is the most impactful player in basketball.
Unless Atlanta steals one in Cleveland, this series is done. The Rockets/Warriors series, on the other hand...
Unless Atlanta steals one in Cleveland, this series is done. The Rockets/Warriors series, on the other hand...
I think teams/players who haven't accomplished much in the past have a tendency to outperform in the regular season - more motivation and focus, maintained over a looong regular season. Atlanta and the C's are examples. Meanwhile, accomplished teams/players use the regular season to prepare for the "real" seasonDeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Yeah, it's a really distorted post-season because of the injuries -- has made match-ups weird and sort of dampened a much anticipated playoff season. Sucks: almost like the NFL where it's a war of attrition more than anything else. I hope Kyrie, at least, is healthy for (presumably) the finals. I found that last Hawks-Cavs game just unwatchable.
Disagree on the regular season not mattering -- #1 seed in the West has been gold for Golden State. If they had skated to, say, the #3 seed and faced, say, the Spurs, Clippers, and Rockets....that's a much harder route than Pels, Grizzlies, and now in the conference finals their first real test in the Rockets -- this after a season of talking about what a death march it'd be for all teams in the Western playoffs. That's not to take anything away from the Dubs -- they earned that #1 seed and are taking advantage fair and square (unlike the Hawks). It's just to say that it's been quite worth the effort. On the flip, the Hawks make the opposite case, I suppose. Did they expend too much energy getting the #1 seed? I can't imagine their woes are that they miss Thabo. And this article makes the case that...well...that there is no clear statistical reason for their faltering: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2015/05/20/what-happened-to-the-hawks-offense/ Korver and Horford both look like different (and much lesser) players....fatigue? Minor injuries?
Bottom-line is even the Nets gave them a battle. The Wizards looked like the better team. And now they're getting creamed by a Cavs team without Love and Irving. It's a shame -- they were a super fun team to watch during the regular season.
Disagree on the regular season not mattering -- #1 seed in the West has been gold for Golden State. If they had skated to, say, the #3 seed and faced, say, the Spurs, Clippers, and Rockets....that's a much harder route than Pels, Grizzlies, and now in the conference finals their first real test in the Rockets -- this after a season of talking about what a death march it'd be for all teams in the Western playoffs. That's not to take anything away from the Dubs -- they earned that #1 seed and are taking advantage fair and square (unlike the Hawks). It's just to say that it's been quite worth the effort. On the flip, the Hawks make the opposite case, I suppose. Did they expend too much energy getting the #1 seed? I can't imagine their woes are that they miss Thabo. And this article makes the case that...well...that there is no clear statistical reason for their faltering: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2015/05/20/what-happened-to-the-hawks-offense/ Korver and Horford both look like different (and much lesser) players....fatigue? Minor injuries?
Bottom-line is even the Nets gave them a battle. The Wizards looked like the better team. And now they're getting creamed by a Cavs team without Love and Irving. It's a shame -- they were a super fun team to watch during the regular season.
Yeah there isn't much ground to stand on for those saying the regular season doesn't matter when both conference finalists are the 1 and 2 seeds even if Atlanta isn't exactly built for playoff success.Tony C said:
As a general rule, with exceptions for things like injuries, regular season Pythag don't lie. The Warriors killed everyone in the regular season with a +10.1 PD. The Clippers (+6.6) and Spurs (+6.2) were #2 and #3. The Hawks were #4 at modest +5.4, against lesser Eastern Conference competition, so their solid but rather modest playoff performance shouldn't come as a huge surprise.
Of course the Cavs (+4.5) are exceptional because they've been a different team since adding Smith, Shump and Mozgov midseason, and since LeBron took a couple weeks off to get with his, er, nutritionists in South Florida and get his body right. Post all-star break, they were +7.8, and they seem to be hitting their stride right now, even with no Love and a gimpy Kyrie.
Agreed though on seeding being huge for the Warriors. It really couldn't have set up any better for them, with their two toughest rivals facing each other in the first round,the tougher of the two being eliminated, and the marginally less tough one imploding the following round. In the meat-grinder of the West, you almost couldn't hand pick a more favorable path for them than New Orleans, Memphis and Houston (really the South not the West, but who's complaining).
Not counting out the Rockets, obviously. If the Warriors play as sloppily and erratically as they did in Games 1 and 2, they could get easily waxed tonight. Here's hoping they can summon the ruthless "Road Warrior" spirit they had in Games 3-4 in NO and Games 4 and 6 in Memphis.
Of course the Cavs (+4.5) are exceptional because they've been a different team since adding Smith, Shump and Mozgov midseason, and since LeBron took a couple weeks off to get with his, er, nutritionists in South Florida and get his body right. Post all-star break, they were +7.8, and they seem to be hitting their stride right now, even with no Love and a gimpy Kyrie.
Agreed though on seeding being huge for the Warriors. It really couldn't have set up any better for them, with their two toughest rivals facing each other in the first round,the tougher of the two being eliminated, and the marginally less tough one imploding the following round. In the meat-grinder of the West, you almost couldn't hand pick a more favorable path for them than New Orleans, Memphis and Houston (really the South not the West, but who's complaining).
Not counting out the Rockets, obviously. If the Warriors play as sloppily and erratically as they did in Games 1 and 2, they could get easily waxed tonight. Here's hoping they can summon the ruthless "Road Warrior" spirit they had in Games 3-4 in NO and Games 4 and 6 in Memphis.
NBA record threes in a postseason before this year
1. Reggie Miller 58 (in 22 games), 2000
2. Ray Allen 57 (in 18 games), 2001
3. Dennis Scott 56 (in 21 games), 1995
3. Ray Allen 56 (in 24 games), 2010
Curry has hit 57 through 12 games.
1. Reggie Miller 58 (in 22 games), 2000
2. Ray Allen 57 (in 18 games), 2001
3. Dennis Scott 56 (in 21 games), 1995
3. Ray Allen 56 (in 24 games), 2010
Curry has hit 57 through 12 games.
Man, it would have been nice if Ray could've hit the 2 he needed to tie the record in game 7 in 2010.
The regular season matters. The Hawks won 60 games in the regular season but that was mostly because they got out to a huge lead off a great start. After the All-Star break they went just 16-11 against mostly bad competition. The Cavs went the other way, going 20-8 after the All-Star break. Even without Love these were two teams that were trending in different directions and the regular season indicated as much. The Hawks were awarded the number one seed because the league rewards team's who have success at all parts of the regular season, but if we were just going by the last 30 games of the regular season (and those are what really matter in the scope of the playoffs) than it is very unsurprising to see Cleveland well ahead of Atlanta.
