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Let's get crazy (risky acquisitions and offseason plans)

Discussion in 'Red Sox Forum' started by Devizier, Oct 20, 2017.

  1. timlinin8th

    timlinin8th Member SoSH Member

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    大谷
     
  2. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    A source tells me that the #RedSox are still very much in play for Giancarlo Stanton. In fact the only reason that he was not hot on Boston right away is because of the cold weather. His top choice is the Dodgers, then the Giants after that if they can put together a contender.

     
  3. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    Someone should tweet that apocryphal Twain quote about San Francisco summers to Stanton quick!
     
  4. Bigpupp

    Bigpupp Member SoSH Member

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    No team will be able to get away with an extension that is much different than comparable extensions other teams have given by by service time. So we're looking at somewhere between Matt Moore's $14 million extension and Chris Archer's $25.5 million extension.
     
  5. simplicio

    simplicio Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

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    I wasn't aware that Matt Moore and Chris Archer were also capable of being legitimate DHs.
     
  6. Bigpupp

    Bigpupp Member SoSH Member

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    So you think the possibility of him being a passable DH is worth an additional $90 million?
     
  7. Snodgrass'Muff

    Snodgrass'Muff oppresses WARmongers Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    This post is 100% nonsense. Manfred made it abundantly clear that "sign and immediately extend" is not on the table for Otani.

    https://www.thescore.com/news/1378639

    The Bradford tweet is not proof of the contrary. It's a reiteration of the report that money is not the driving factor in Otani coming to America which is why he's posting this winter and not waiting two seasons. You have no clue what you are talking about.

    And when he does get extended (whether that's after his first year, two years in or when he reaches arb eligibility) it won't be for $130M.
     
  8. MartyBarrettMVP

    MartyBarrettMVP Member SoSH Member

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  9. DeadlySplitter

    DeadlySplitter Member SoSH Member

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    Scott Boras, where JD M = David Price

    also I can't say I love Stanton being concerned about our weather - speaks to wrong priorities
     
  10. simplicio

    simplicio Well-Known Member Gold Supporter

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    How much would you pay for a passable DH over 7 years or so? More importantly, how much would you pay to be able to field a 26 man roster over that time?
     
  11. soxhop411

    soxhop411 Member SoSH Member

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  12. mlthomaas

    mlthomaas lurker

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    You are the most gullible person on this board if you think Ohtani will not sign an extension with his team. If you want to debate his contract, be my guest.

    There is absolutely nothing Manfred can do to prevent Ohtani and his new team agreeing to a first year extension. Doing so would be illegal of Manfred and the MLBPA would never allow the commissioner to prevent an extension of a player and a club. The only thing he can prevent is if there is illegal collusion between any team and Ohtani during this signing process to promise him future money.

    Maybe Ohtani signs this month, or early December. May 2018 rolls around and he signs a huge extension with the Sox/whatever team. That’s legal.
     
  13. HangingW/ScottCooper

    HangingW/ScottCooper Member SoSH Member

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    1,661
    Can't they sign him to a deal where he can opt out on May 1st or somewhere thereabouts? Sign him for whatever the Sox cap is and agree to terms on an extension to be announced during the season.
     
  14. Snodgrass'Muff

    Snodgrass'Muff oppresses WARmongers Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Cite your sources. Your opinion runs counter to literally everything we've heard about this situation.
     
  15. MikeM

    MikeM Member SoSH Member

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    Pretty much in line with what I expected the opening price to be going in.

    Coming down to 6/$170m in guaranteed money probably gets a bite from SF (or one of the teams eyeing Stanton), and still has him topping Cespedes on the per/year scale.
     
  16. mlthomaas

    mlthomaas lurker

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  17. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    I can't see any team risk playing him at DH on off days. It's nice in theory.
     
  18. Bigpupp

    Bigpupp Member SoSH Member

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    Its not what I would pay. It's what past precedence says should be paid, and when Jon Singleton got extended before earning a day of service time he got $10 million spread over 5 years. So no, I don't think any team is willing to promise an extra $80 million to a player just for giggles.
     
  19. BoSox Rule

    BoSox Rule Member SoSH Member

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    That’s going to be the biggest factor where he signs, not 3 million dollars.
     
  20. Bigpupp

    Bigpupp Member SoSH Member

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    I mean FFS, let's get back to reality on this one. Under the rules allowed, Ohtani will make around $1.5 million for the first 3 years of service he earns. No GM will be allowed to pay him approximately $40 million per year for his remaining years of control.
     
  21. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Can we come up with a Buchholz-style default for every time someone spells Otani incorrectly
     
  22. Minneapolis Millers

    Minneapolis Millers Member SoSH Member

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    Fine. Then answer this: If a team deliberately tries to circumvent the system MLB has in place governing postings and contracts for Japanese players, what's to keep Manfred from invoking the "best interests of baseball" power to declare Ohtani a free agent? MLBPA happy, Ohtani happy, team fucked.
     
  23. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    I'm also not sure promising him a DH spot is wise unless you expect him to be an above average hitter. I guess if he was an average hitter, you could use a little of the money you saved at the DH spot to improve elsewhere but I think teams would typically want more offense from the DH spot.
     
  24. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Apparently, you are the one spelling it incorrectly. I thought it was Otani too.
     
  25. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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  26. timlinin8th

    timlinin8th Member SoSH Member

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    http://m.mlb.com/news/article/261840310/shohei-ohtani-the-hot-topic-at-gm-meetings/

    MLB has started spelling it that way. I joked above with the kanji, but in all honestly any romanization of his name isn't "right" or "wrong", just everyone commonly agreeing to spell a pronunciation a certain way.
     
  27. Bigpupp

    Bigpupp Member SoSH Member

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    This was on an MLB Trade Rumors report a while back:

     
  28. Snodgrass'Muff

    Snodgrass'Muff oppresses WARmongers Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    So basically the opposite of what you are arguing will happen. They talk about him being extended after a "suitable amount of time." Interpreting that to mean April or May of 2018 is idiotic.

    He will not be extended during his first year. He might not be extended before the end of his second year, but the absolute earliest it would happen is after his first season. If a team tries it, MLB will intervene. Manfred has made it clear that violating the rules for IFA's will be responded to harshly and the rules are written in such a way as to avoid actually drawing the line in the sand, instead leaving that determination up to the league in each situation. The CBA actually has this passage in it:

    They actually wrote in a clause that lets them decide what is and isn't against the rules without having to describe it all up front. If Manfred thinks a team is circumventing the spirit of the law, he will step in.

    Oh, and signing an extension in April or May doesn't let you avoid the AAV hit for a year. The "Adrian Gonzalez loophole" no longer exists. Instead, when the contract is signed, the AAV is calculated for the full deal and the AAV is then prorated for the amount of the season left to play. (Article XXIII, C (2)(c), and Article XXIII E (2).)

    You can keep telling us all how it's going to go down (ignoring everything that we actually know about the situation) or maybe you could spend a little time reading up on the CBA instead.
     
  29. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I wouldn't go with MLBTR on the official spelling of anything
     
  30. Bigpupp

    Bigpupp Member SoSH Member

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    How about Buster Olney?

    Tweet from @Buster_ESPN:
     
  31. Tokyo Sox

    Tokyo Sox Baka Gaijin Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Correct! I think everyone should go with "Ohtani" going forward. That's what he has on the back of his own jersey, and that is the more accurate romanization of his name pronunciation-wise. And in September I discovered that's how it's spelled on the Sapporo Dome scoreboards, which incidentally have...kind of a lot going on:
    ohtani.jpg

    It used to be more common to see him called Otani in English language media, which is why I originally spelled it that way in the Ohtani thread, but I've just changed the name of the thread. The difference is that 大 is technically spelled with two hiragana o's. It's the same kanji in Tomo Ohka's last name, but also in Akinori Otsuka's. So there's no hard & fast rule, but adding the h will keep you from saying the O too quickly, and get you closer to the correct pronunciation.
     
  32. gryoung

    gryoung Member SoSH Member

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    Should be a giant red flag for the Sox.
     
  33. TimScribble

    TimScribble Member SoSH Member

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    Even if the Red Sox have the pieces to trade for Giancarlo Stanton, there's a belief the Marlins slugger won't accept a trade to Boston. Or to St. Louis, for that matter.

    A baseball source said yesterday that he’s been told Stanton will not accept a trade to either the Red Sox or the Cardinals, another team linked early and often in trade rumors. Perhaps there’s some flexibility in that stance, but Stanton’s preference is a factor.”
     
  34. judyb

    judyb Member SoSH Member

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    Maybe David Ortiz could have a talk with him and explain that the only time he had to spend in Boston when it's really cold from November through March was during World Series parades.
     
  35. GoDa

    GoDa lurker

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    I don't think the Padres have any particular reason to move him, but I wouldn't mind seeing Wil Myers in a Red Sox uniform. He's the right age. His contract is reasonable and long. And, I'd like to believe some Fenway magic dust would help him deliver some career years.
     
  36. Hawk68

    Hawk68 lurker

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    To me, the red flag is: (Stanton - MLB talent acqusition cost - mL talent acqusition cost) << JDM
     
  37. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Giancarlo Stanton trade development: Sources say multiple teams told #Marlins that Stanton’s contract (10 years, $295 million) is roughly what he’d receive on open market. Thus, #Marlinswould need to include cash in order to obtain high-level prospects. @MLB @MLBNetwork
     
  38. Minneapolis Millers

    Minneapolis Millers Member SoSH Member

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    I guess I'd give them something like Chavis and Travis and take on all of Stanton's deal - if they'd also take back Hanley. Then I'd sign Santana for 1B.

    Crazy, I know, but it does address MIA's need to reduce salary short term and long term while giving them value in return (albeit not "top" prospects). And it serves most of the Sox's needs.

    Which of course means Stanton would be the one to nix it!
     
  39. Green (Tongued) Monster

    Green (Tongued) Monster lurker

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    Exactly my point from post 373. His contract is market appropriate as it is. Why people would be ok trading E-Rod or even Benintendi for the rights to that contract is mind boggling.
     
  40. IpswichSox

    IpswichSox Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    2,395
    Taking on Stanton pretty much straight up without having to send any top-tier prospects? Then flip one of the outfielders for a 1B or prospects? I think I'd sign up for that if that were the deal (which it probably won't be).
     
  41. grimshaw

    grimshaw the new rudy SoSH Member

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    Completely nuts, I agree. I would think that the very best players at premium positions like SS, aces or shut down closers bring back more, even at market value. But he's a power hitter in a beefed up league. There is a lot of value to be had elsewhere.

    We'll hopefully know pretty soon, but I would think no one pulls the trigger on something moronic until the asking price went down.
     
    #491 grimshaw, Nov 15, 2017 at 7:06 PM
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017 at 7:12 PM
  42. plucy

    plucy Member SoSH Member

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    363
    #492 plucy, Nov 15, 2017 at 8:11 PM
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017 at 8:17 PM
  43. Snodgrass'Muff

    Snodgrass'Muff oppresses WARmongers Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    27,089
    No. If they had a deal in place and were waiting on his approval, there would be a ton of very specific tweets and stories, not one vague story hinting at it.
     
  44. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Interesting note on Martinez from Sean McAdam.

    This year, Boras represents Eric Hosmer, Mike Moustakas, and J.D. Martinez – arguably, the three best bats in this free agent class.

    An executive with another club Wednesday noted that no team was more disappointed than the Red Sox when Martinez switched representation to Boras last month.

    “They thought (signing Martinez) was going to be a slam dunk (previously),’’ the executive said.

    https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2017/11/15/baseball-offseason-may-progress-slower-others/
     
  45. Muppet

    Muppet lurker

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    Is it Just Boston that has this apprehension of dealing with anything Scott Boras? Or is this something league wide?

    I obviously don't naturally get access to the local media in the US, and I've always been curious about why there seems to be a sigh of resignation as soon as a desirable free agent is announced to be represented by him.

    I would figure that all agents would be pushing for the best deal for their clients.
     
  46. StuckOnYouk

    StuckOnYouk Member SoSH Member

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    Boras takes his sweet ass time to bleed every penny out every owner that he can - sometimes to the detriment of his client. His approach is the exact opposite of what we've seen here with Dombrowski. He likes to identify a target and move as fast as he can.

    Does anyone know if DD has dealt with an upper echelon Boras player before?
     
  47. Muppet

    Muppet lurker

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    I getcha, thanks for that.

    EDIT: And Savin too.
     
  48. Savin Hillbilly

    Savin Hillbilly loves the secret sauce SoSH Member

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    Boras has a well-established reputation of being a more high-stakes negotiator than most agents. He will play chicken with the market rather than making a priority of getting a pretty good deal early on. It's a strategy that has failed on more than one occasion (e.g. Stephen Drew 2014), but when it works, it works big.
     
  49. sean1562

    sean1562 lurker

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    1,051
    It almost failed with Matt Weiters too, until the Nats gave him that stupid 1 year deal with a $10 mil player option.
     
  50. IpswichSox

    IpswichSox Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    [​IMG]

    January 26, 2012: Prince Fielder gets 9 years $214 million.

    (Though in fairness, there were reports that Boras went over Dombrowski's head and negotiated directly with owner Mike Ilitch.)
     

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