Kevin Love News and Rumors

[zenter]

Why are some of the rookies not signed then? If they're slotted anyway?

 
Their cap holds are set at 100% of slot level.  Since teams have some tiny amount of wiggle room for rookie signings (DA for example always gives 120%, the max), it is usually beneficial to wait until major free agent acquisitions are done before signing the rookies. That, of course, assuming that the rookies don't decide to up and go to Europe for whatever reason.

 

[Plantiers Wart]

Is it tampering for LeBron to have that conversation?
 
If not, tampering is getting border line meaningless and they should just allow it.

 
 
Wasn't tampering when Rondo spoke with Love at Fenway, either. 

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Why are some of the rookies not signed then? If they're slotted anyway?

 
Also gives them the flexibility to be traded without waiting the 30 days if they are signed I suppose.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

That said, its hard to see Love to Cleveland not getting done.  And I think Saunders risks overplaying his hand here.  If Wiggins and Bennett is on the table, he should take it.  

 
I think Flip can get Wiggins and Bennett already if he said that he'd pull the trigger, but his leverage is LeBron.  It's really up to how patient LBJ can be, and I suspect that every time Flip hears that LBJ talked to Love, he's holding out for a little more.
 
Really, the best thing LBJ could do is proclaim how eager he is to play/mentor young athletic talent and see how far he can go with development. 
 
That might make Flip pull the trigger.

 

[wutang112878]

The problem is, I dont think there has ever been a superstar who has been allowed to play GM or be part of the GM process who has really considered the long-term when they have even a sliver of a chance of making a move at a title run.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

The problem is, I dont think there has ever been a superstar who has been allowed to play GM or be part of the GM process who has really considered the long-term when they have even a sliver of a chance of making a move at a title run.

The rules change when that superstar is THE single most influential player in the league essentially on a year-to-year contract. It's leverage plain and simple.

I love Wiggins and feel many here underestimate him as I've got his floor as someone like Deng with his upside much higher.....but Love is a much better fit now and in the future to what LeBron and the Cavs need as Wiggins isn't ready to be an impact championship level player from Day One and is in many ways redundant to Bron anyway.

 

[wutang112878]

Its still some pretty short sighted decision making from the player GM.  Do you want to hold a team hostage and force them to make move after move to maximize your chances of winning each individual year?  Or do you want to set something up where you have a 5 year period where the core of your championship team is in place and thats the 5 year run you get as your prime winds down.  Holding a team hostage is a short term thinking strategy

 

[Mugthis]

Question for those who know more:
 
Isn't Love's game pretty similar to Dirk's? What things does Dirk do now, or even in his prime, that Love can't? From what I can tell, Dirk had and has a much better post-up and midrange game, although Dirk is probably one of the 5 best ever at that. Overall, Dirk has been a more efficient shooter, although that gap may narrow--if close altogether--if Love is ever a good offensive system with other shooters and creators. Love is a much better rebounder than Dirk, which should close the gap a bit on Dirk's overall efficiency advantage. Dirk is or was probably a better defender, but is it significant?
 
Would it be fair to say that Love is 90% of Peak Dirk? In the right system and avoiding fluky injuries, maybe even approach Peak Dirk? A less efficient and more limited scorer than Dirk, and a worse defender, but a superior rebounder and passer?
 
Imagine something similar to Peak Dirk, playing with Peak LeBron...and then throw in Kyrie Irving as a 3rd option. That seems worth giving up the Wiggins, giving that his probable ceiling (in terms of value) isn't any better than Love's ceiling (remember, Love is still young himself and has never been in a good basketball system that could maximize and develop his talents). Wiggins has a rookie contract, which is of course incredibly valuable, but along with that, he has a lot more risk and uncertainty than Love. 
 
I don't think it's a slam-drunk trade either way, but given the Cavs are a fringe contender at the moment, the certain immediate upgrade with Love seems superior to the uncertain long-term upgrade with Wiggins.

 

[wutang112878]

Whatever Love lacks in efficiency in comparison to Dirk, he more than makes up for in rebounding.  Love is also an excellent passer.  Imagine for a second, Love getting a defensive rebound, Lebron instantly taking off, Love the QB hitting Lebron the WR on a seam route and all for an easy slam.  Now imagine that possibly twice a game.
 
Peak Dirk and peak Lebron are fascinating to think of , but peak Love might actually compliment peak Lebron even better.
 
Having said all of that, I'd have a tough time handing Wiggins over so quickly.  Love has hit is ceiling and there is a chance that if Wiggins hits his ceiling he might compliment Lebron better than Love because of the chaos that the 2 of them could wreak on an opposing team's wings.  They (Lebron & Wiggins) might be able to almost effectively shut down an opposing offense by themselves, and I cant think of an instance where a team could do that without great defensive bigs.

 

[Statman]

No tampering. There are no rules prohibiting a player from having conversations with players from other teams since the players are not executives involved in decision making. Although we know in fact that the superstars DO have a direct influence......there is nothing preventing this from occurring.

 
I am not so sure about that. 
 
#109 of the Larry Coon FAQ addresses this issue.  I haven't seen the actual wording of the CBA, but Coon knows more about things like this than anyone else alive.
 

 
109. What is tampering?
 
Tampering is when a player or team directly or indirectly entices, induces or persuades anybody (player, general manager, etc.) who is under contract with another team in order to negotiate for their services. The NBA may impose suspensions and/or fines up to $50,000 if tampering is discovered, however the league's practice has been to wait until a team lodges a complaint before investigating (but that's not to say they don't continue to monitor the league and won't take action independently if they discover that tampering has occurred). Here are some examples:

• The Miami Heat were discovered to have tampered with Pat Riley in 1995 by negotiating with Riley while he was the head coach of the New York Knicks. The Heat "settled," and avoided league-imposed penalties, by compensating the Knicks with $1 million and their first round draft pick in 1996.

• After Will Perdue left San Antonio in the 1999 offseason to sign with Chicago, he commented to the press about the possibility of the Bulls signing Tim Duncan and/or Grant Hill in 2000. The league considered this to be tampering, and issued Perdue a warning.

 
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q109

 

[Three10toLeft]

I think Wiggins is going to be something special. He could truly be the Pippen to Lebron's Jordan, so it makes it a really tough pill to swallow. And if you're Love, and you want to wind up in Cleveland, having the Cavs give up such a promising asset is a mistake.
 
If Love was a bit devious, and this is a stretch to think he'd actually do this, he should play the heel, let it be publicly known that he has no intentions of resigning in Minnesota at the end of the year, and also let it be known that Cleveland will be the only team he is willing to sign a contract extension for once he is traded.
 
Once it was obvious that Melo had no intentions of signing with Denver or any team besides NY, his days in Denver were over shortly thereafter.

 

[MakMan44]

Having said all of that, I'd have a tough time handing Wiggins over so quickly.  Love has hit is ceiling and there is a chance that if Wiggins hits his ceiling he might compliment Lebron better than Love because of the chaos that the 2 of them could wreak on an opposing team's wings.  They (Lebron & Wiggins) might be able to almost effectively shut down an opposing offense by themselves, and I cant think of an instance where a team could do that without great defensive bigs.

I'm not suggesting this isn't true, but that's a pretty causal way to throw out it there. He's improved every year in the league on a team that hasn't played for a thing in all the time he's been there and he's still only 25. 
 
EDIT: I don't think he's going to take an massive leaps forward, merely suggesting he might have a better single season with the Cavs than he's had with the Wolves. 

 

[redsahx]

 

Having said all of that, I'd have a tough time handing Wiggins over so quickly.  Love has hit is ceiling and there is a chance that if Wiggins hits his ceiling he might compliment Lebron better than Love because of the chaos that the 2 of them could wreak on an opposing team's wings.  They (Lebron & Wiggins) might be able to almost effectively shut down an opposing offense by themselves, and I cant think of an instance where a team could do that without great defensive bigs.

I also would have a tough time parting with Wiggins, for similar reasons. However, I have started to wonder whether the Cleveland situation would be bad for Wiggins development, at least from an offensive standpoint.

With LeBron and Kyrie there, and the team immediately in contender status, the priority would be on trying to find a role for Wiggins to help that cause, rather than worrying about fully developing him. We all probably agree that he would be asked to focus primarily on the defensive side of the ball, and spend the next few years basically trained to defer to LeBron and Kyrie offensively. In that scenario I have a hard time envisioning Wiggins ever developing into an elite scorer. There are already questions as to whether he will be an elite scorer at the NBA level anyways, but in an environment where he would almost never be given free reign on the offensive end, I think it becomes more likely that he ends up falling short of his potential. Maybe I'm wrong. Of course if he truly has the potential to be an all-around great player, and does the most with his offensive chances, he could end up forcing the issue regardless. If he further develops his outside shot and remains dangerous attacking the basket, then I guess his chances would start coming.

 

[jon abbey]

If Love was a bit devious, and this is a stretch to think he'd actually do this, he should play the heel, let it be publicly known that he has no intentions of resigning in Minnesota at the end of the year, and also let it be known that Cleveland will be the only team he is willing to sign a contract extension for once he is traded.
 
Once it was obvious that Melo had no intentions of signing with Denver or any team besides NY, his days in Denver were over shortly thereafter.

 
I've seen a bunch of people suggest things along these lines, but Cleveland isn't going to have the money to sign him as a FA unless they move a couple of those large rookie deals anyway. They will be around $62M already from LBJ/Irving/Thompson/Waiters/Bennett/Wiggins, those high first round pick rookie deals add up quickly when you have that many of them. 

 

[Three10toLeft]

 
I've seen a bunch of people suggest things along these lines, but Cleveland isn't going to have the money to sign him as a FA unless they move a couple of those large rookie deals anyway. They will be around $62M already from LBJ/Irving/Thompson/Waiters/Bennett/Wiggins, those high first round pick rookie deals add up quickly when you have that many of them. 

 
That's a valid point.
 
But I would imagine that finding a trade partner to facilitate the necessary cap room for the Cavs would be possible. I'm definitely not an expert on the cap, but couldn't a team take back a couple of those rookie contracts for a second round pick(s), using a trade exception?

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Its still some pretty short sighted decision making from the player GM.  Do you want to hold a team hostage and force them to make move after move to maximize your chances of winning each individual year?  Or do you want to set something up where you have a 5 year period where the core of your championship team is in place and thats the 5 year run you get as your prime winds down.  Holding a team hostage is a short term thinking strategy

My analogy is that of an activist who owns stock in a company and pressures them to make uncomfortable aggressive decisions to increase the value of the product. The board is content to slowly make gains (long term) while the activist pushes to improve today....and then tomorrow pushes to make more changes than improve them again.

In each of the next 5 years you could have LeBron forcing the team to make aggressive moves that give them a great chance to win Championships in each of these next 5 years rather than waiting 5 years for Wiggins to be a championship level player at which time LeBron is on a decline.

Sometimes forcing execs to make decisions is the best thing for the organization......in the case of this years Cavs it absolutely is imo since Love will still be in his prime for all of LeBrons prime years in Cleveland. We've seen the Bulls have plenty of opportunities to play their hand over the years only to fail to do so while being content with being a competitive playoff team.

 

[wutang112878]

I'm not suggesting this isn't true, but that's a pretty causal way to throw out it there. He's improved every year in the league on a team that hasn't played for a thing in all the time he's been there and he's still only 25. 
 
EDIT: I don't think he's going to take an massive leaps forward, merely suggesting he might have a better single season with the Cavs than he's had with the Wolves. 

 
You are right, I didnt frame my position very well there.  For what the Cavs would be trading for, Love has pretty much plateaued as a player. 
 
Offensively Lebron and Love should make the game easier for one another, but statistically they are already so great that you probably arent going to see a noticeable uptick in efficiency stats.  What you might see instead is allowing one another to extend their primes, sort of the same way the Big 3 collectively hid some of the Big 3 individuals declines because they were playing together.
 
Rebounding wise, I just dont see any way that Love could possibly get better.  Defensively, this is what keeps the ceiling where it is with Love.  For all that he brings offensively, I cant see a defensive ceiling that he would be chasing after if he were in Cleveland.  Which is why I contrast him with Wiggins
 
 

 

I also would have a tough time parting with Wiggins, for similar reasons. However, I have started to wonder whether the Cleveland situation would be bad for Wiggins development, at least from an offensive standpoint.

With LeBron and Kyrie there, and the team immediately in contender status, the priority would be on trying to find a role for Wiggins to help that cause, rather than worrying about fully developing him. We all probably agree that he would be asked to focus primarily on the defensive side of the ball, and spend the next few years basically trained to defer to LeBron and Kyrie offensively. In that scenario I have a hard time envisioning Wiggins ever developing into an elite scorer. There are already questions as to whether he will be an elite scorer at the NBA level anyways, but in an environment where he would almost never be given free reign on the offensive end, I think it becomes more likely that he ends up falling short of his potential. Maybe I'm wrong. Of course if he truly has the potential to be an all-around great player, and does the most with his offensive chances, he could end up forcing the issue regardless. If he further develops his outside shot and remains dangerous attacking the basket, then I guess his chances would start coming.

 
If Wiggins was playing alongside Kyrie and Lebron he certainly wouldnt have a 'thrown to the wolves' type development offensively, but that might also be exactly what he needs.  From what I have read he has looked a little shaky in the summer league, and generally being great in the summer league indicates you wont suck.  Not being great in the summer league means you have some question marks.  So being the 3rd fiddle and never having to create and having a lot of easy opportunities created for you, actually sound like the things Wiggins might really need his first year. 
 
Now as for your role, I agree 100%, they are going to be looking to find a way to contend today, and so they should just ask Wiggins to become the best defender he can be this year.  That could keep him on the court and considering defense is supposed to be his strength I would hope this wouldnt overwhelm him.  Then if the premise in my first paragraph holds true then he should still slowly be developing on offense as well. 
 
Pierce is also always I guy I think of evolving into something great from even the least ideal of situations.  He was on some pretty horrible Celtics teams, Antoine was 'the guy' and not only was he a horrible example of a player but he would hardly allow anyone else on the team to shoot.  But even there by his 3rd year Pierce had established himself as 'the guy'.  Wiggins isnt going to overthrow Lebron for 'the guy' status, but if he has it in him to be an elite scorer it should happen.  I also just cant think of guys who became elite scorers who might not have been under different circumstances, so maybe I just dont see it.

 

[wutang112878]

My analogy is that of an activist who owns stock in a company and pressures them to make uncomfortable aggressive decisions to increase the value of the product. The board is content to slowly make gains (long term) while the activist pushes to improve today....and then tomorrow pushes to make more changes than improve them again.

In each of the next 5 years you could have LeBron forcing the team to make aggressive moves that give them a great chance to win Championships in each of these next 5 years rather than waiting 5 years for Wiggins to be a championship level player at which time LeBron is on a decline.

Sometimes forcing execs to make decisions is the best thing for the organization......in the case of this years Cavs it absolutely is imo since Love will still be in his prime for all of LeBrons prime years in Cleveland. We've seen the Bulls have plenty of opportunities to play their hand over the years only to fail to do so while being content with being a competitive playoff team.

 
You are describing Carl Icahn.  And they call Icahn a 'corporate raider' because he buys up enough stock so he can get the boards attention, forces them to make aggressive decisions to increase the value of the stock, and then dumps the stock when he feels he has made enough profit.  The isnt a value investor, he is focused solely on the short term to make a quick profit.
 
Its not just 'would I rather have the next 5 years of Love or Wiggins' its about the mix of talent they have in Cleveland.  With Lebron / Kyrie / Love they have an excessive amount of offense, but no defense.  With Lebron and Kyrie I think they have enough offense to survive and so I would take the incremental defense that Wiggins is going to give you because you are hitting the law of diminishing returns offensively.  I guess that is what it really boils down to for me, that Cleveland would be sending away a ton of defense and getting none in return and Kyrie (as has been mentioned upthread) isnt a great defender.

 

[zenter]

 
I am not so sure about that. 
 
#109 of the Larry Coon FAQ addresses this issue.  I haven't seen the actual wording of the CBA, but Coon knows more about things like this than anyone else alive.
 
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q109

 
The fact that LeBron hasn't been verifiably quoted as saying anything about Kevin Love prevents a tampering charge.
 
I assume players are coached to never talk specifics WRT free agency/trade/signing of another player. The most you typically hear is vague hypotheticals "He's an amazing player, and I think everyone in the league would love to have him as a teammate." Typically, you hear quite a lot less, I think.

 

[mt8thsw9th]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/breaking-cavaliers-agree-to-trade-andrew-wiggins-l,36500/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1efault

 

[MakMan44]

At one point, a trade seemed close to happening, but Minnesota wants more than the Cavaliers are currently offering, sources said.

 

There is also a feeling around the league that Minnesota is attempting to drive up the price for Love by having the Cavs and Warriors compete for the deal.

 
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11232868/cleveland-cavaliers-minnesota-timberwolves-talking-trade-involving-kevin-love-andrew-wiggins-anthony-bennett
 
Don't be dumb, Flip. 

 

[wutang112878]

This negotiation has amazing laughter potential because it seems both sides are idiots.  I'm not sure why Flip keeps engaged with GS because nothing they are offering comes anywhere close to Wiggins.  Cleveland meanwhile is willing to completely empty out the cupboards for Love, so they dont really have any leverage to hold anything back at this point.  Meanwhile, I'm not sure what else Flip is really holding out for, I guess thats the mystery.  They arent getting Kyrie or Lebron obviously and if Cleveland if offering you Wiggins and a future 1st or 1sts then the only real asset left that they might possibly be able to get is Thompson.  If they offer Wiggins and Thompson and Minny doenst take it, then they are just not serious about wanting to make a deal.
 
Personally I'm hoping Flip screws this up badly enough for the Celts to get involved again.

 

[Brickowski]

Love is not a great fit for the Cavs as presently constituted, and neither is Wiggins.  The Cavs have plenty of offense  with LeBron, Irving, Thomson, Waiters, et. al.  What they need is defense, both perimeter and interior.  If Varejao gets hurt (again) they're probably not winning a title, with or without Love.
 
As for MN, if they want to win now, the GS offer is superior if GS is willing to include Klay Thompson.  IMHO there's some Gerald Green in Wiggins.  He'll be good, but not overnight.

 

[wutang112878]

Why isn't Wiggins a fit for the Cavs? He provides some of that defense you just said they lack

 

[E5 Yaz]

Don't be dumb, Flip. 

 
Next, tell the sun not to rise in the morning

 

[Brickowski]

Why isn't Wiggins a fit for the Cavs? He provides some of that defense you just said they lack

Because Wiggins is in swaddling clothes and last I saw he weighs under 200 lbs.  He will be abused by stronger players, at least for a couple of years.
 
If Wiggins is enough to fetch Love (which I doubt), I would offer him to GS (along with any requisite filler) for Klay Thompson.  Now that would make the Cavs better, although they would still need a defensive bruiser to spell Varejao.
 
Is Kendrick Perkins available?

 

[Auger34]

If Flip really has the option of acquiring Wiggins and is still holding out hope for Klay Thompson, he is a fucking idiot and should be removed from power immediately. Wiggins is the exact type of asset the Wolves should be trying to acquire. A #1 pick with a legitimate chance of becoming a superstar. Compare that to Klay Thompson, a good player who is about to become expensive and it should be no contest

 

[wutang112878]

Because Wiggins is in swaddling clothes and last I saw he weighs under 200 lbs.  He will be abused by stronger players, at least for a couple of years.
 
If Wiggins is enough to fetch Love (which I doubt), I would offer him to GS (along with any requisite filler) for Klay Thompson.  Now that would make the Cavs better, although they would still need a defensive bruiser to spell Varejao.
 
Is Kendrick Perkins available?

 
Step back though, why is the overall strategy 'maximize chances to win this year at all costs'.  Once Wiggins gets his diapers off he might be something else.

 

[ALiveH]

they're not done in cleveland.  Love is just the next domino.  After him, they'll be looking for the spotup shooter, big body and/or defensive specialist veteran ring-whores on low $ salaries.  Or they could trade whatever young guns and draft picks for those types of players.
 
I am pretty surprised people are so hesitant to trade Wiggins for Love.  Love is a top-10 player in the league.  There's probably only a 50/50 chance that Wiggins becomes that.  You take the next 5 years of Love over the next 5 years of Wiggins, because most likely at least for years 1-3 Love will be better.  You don't even know if Lebron will still be in Cleveland or if he'll still be best player in the league when he's 34.
 
Winning the championship is really hard.  You don't get a lot of chances to do it, so when you do you should be maximizing the chances to win now.  Once you figure out how to win now which is already really really hard, then you can try to figure out how to sustain it for the long run which has only really be accomplished by the Spurs and the ??? - no one else.

 

[Devizier]

The Cavaliers have plenty of offense in the sense that they have players who are physically able to take shots.
 
They were 22nd in the league in offense (oRTG) last season. Thompson and Varejao are role players.

 

[Brickowski]

 
Step back though, why is the overall strategy 'maximize chances to win this year at all costs'.  Once Wiggins gets his diapers off he might be something else.

LeBron has a two-year deal.  If you were the GM in Cleveland, would you be trying to win now or build for the future?
 
To answer AliveH's post, I wouldn't be hesitant to trade Wiggins for Love, assuming that money doesn't matter. They have as good a shot at a championship in the next two years with Love as they do with Wiggins.  But IMHO what the Cavs really need now is a player like Tyson Chandler.

 

[Auger34]

Presently the Cavaliers big men are Tristan Thompson, Anderson Varejao, and.....Dwight Powell and Brendan Haywood?! (Although you could consider Bennett and Bron at the 4).
Even if they trade Waiters and Wiggins for Love, the Cavs would still probably need to trade some of their picks and the Haywood contract for a rim protector. (Have no idea who that player might be).
Then you have
PG-Kyrie, Delladova
Wings-Mike Miller, Bron, Bennett, James Jones, Joe Harris, Ray Allen (?)
Bigs- Love, Thompson, Varejao, Rim protector

That's a solid team that could do some damage but, again, as of right now this team is in dire need of some bigs

 

[wutang112878]

LeBron has a two-year deal.  If you were the GM in Cleveland, would you be trying to win now or build for the future?

 
Because this is exactly what got them into trouble the first time around with Lebron.  Now this is fundamentally different than trading for Antwan Jamison, Mo Williams and a broken down Shaq but the theme is the same 'maximize chance to win this year'. 
 
My concern is really 3 fold: 1 - It creates the whole 'surplus of offense, deficit of defense' issue, 2 - Short term thinking and 3 - Team still isnt a finished product.  If love was going to be the final piece of the puzzle, then it probably makes sense.  But if you trade Wiggins for Love you have Thompson coming off the bench so you have a great 6th man, but now you are lacking a great rim defender unless you assuming Varejao stays healthy and you need someone to start at the 2 or 3 (depending on where you want to play Lebron).  You've used up your best asset, taken a look at the #1 pick in the draft in a timeperiod you would measure in weeks not months and you still have to go figure out how to fill some big holes in your roster.

 

[Brickowski]

Love is only 25.  If he were 30, I'd agree with keeping Wiggins.

 

[wutang112878]

Do you see the current lack of defense, and then the defense losing more talent with the Love trade as an issue?  You seem to gloss past that even though you do say they need a rim protector.

 

[bowiac]

I don't think it should be a given Wiggins is going to be a good defender immediately. He's a good bet to get there, but a couple years away I suspect. Insofar as there's a LeBron "window", that matters.

I think trading for Love is automatic.

 

[johnmd20]

 
Next, tell the sun not to rise in the morning

 
Joke's on you pal. You can't stop the sun from rising.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Wiggins defense is redundant to LeBron's in Cleveland as most teams only have one elite wing scorer that the Cavs will matchup using their best defender, LeBron. Wiggins defense, assuming it is eventually plus/elite in the future will be wasted defending non-scorers.

Offensively he gets lost playing without the ball at times and the ball will primarily be in LeBron's hands or Kyrie's. This is why even though I love Wiggins he's a poor fit for what Cleveland is trying to accomplish.....not to mention he is very inexperienced in the present. Love provides what Bosh did for Miami offensively and Varejao/Thompson >>>>> Birdman/Haslem.

Think of Kyrie in Wade's role as secondary dribble penetration scorer/shooter and fit in Miller/Allen/spot-up 3-point shooter du jour, add a season to develop chemistry and/or add complimentary pieces off the bench and this is a legit championship team....I'd argue the favorites in Year Two.

 

[radsoxfan]

Just because there might be some overlap in defensive skills with Wiggins and Lebron, I don't think that's a problem at all.  Was Pippen redundant to Jordan defensively?
 
You don't want Lebron expending all his energy on D first of all, plus sometimes teams do have multiple wing threats.  You also have much more flexibility with your defensive strategy in regard to switches and substitution patters (not to mention injuries).
 
I don't know how good Wiggins will ultimately be defensively, but I see no issue at all with the "redundancy" of multiple good defensive wings.  He could be hugely valuable in that role, even on a team with Lebron.

 

[DavidTai]

I always figured one of the reasons Tony Allen was so valuable to the 2008 Celtics was that he allowed Pierce to burn his energy on offense while Allen covered Lebron (and other scoring wings) on defense.

Can't see a reason not to do that with Wiggins early on.

 

[moly99]

Wiggins defense is redundant to LeBron's in Cleveland as most teams only have one elite wing scorer that the Cavs will matchup using their best defender, LeBron.

 
And then they will run into a team with multiple scorers in the postseason. People are forgetting why Lebron's first reign in Cleveland failed.

 

[jon abbey]

 
People are forgetting why Lebron's first reign in Cleveland failed.

 
It failed because CLE couldn't get him any better help than Mo Williams and Ilgauskas, so when CLE ran into teams in the playoffs who had 3/4/5 players better than CLE's second best player, they often lost (not always). Irving is probably already better than any player he played with in his first stint there, Love would top that. CLE will have holes and issues either way, with Wiggins or with Love. 

 

[moly99]

I guess it comes down to whether or not you think the answer was whether they needed more big name players or a lack of specific basketball skills.
 
The Cavs always gave Lebron second bananas that were one way players or had weaknesses that made them unreliable. IE Shaq's FT shooting made him tough to play in the 4th quarter, so Shaq wasn't really much help at the end of close games. Lebron ended up having to carry the team on both ends of the floor in the 4th quarter in every playoff series. Well, guess what? Love is a poor 4th quarter scorer and is also an abysmal defender. If Lebron is the only good wing defender on the team and will have to carry the Cavs offense at the end of games they will be right back where they were in 2003-2010.

 

[jon abbey]

Also I haven't seen enough MIN games to know why Love is a poor 4th quarter scorer, but that will be a lot easier for him with the opposing defense having to worry about LBJ and Kyrie also. 

 

[MakMan44]

Also I haven't seen enough MIN games to know why Love is a poor 4th quarter scorer, but that will be a lot easier for him with the opposing defense having to worry about LBJ and Kyrie also. 

The Timberwolves didn't have a good reliable scorer after Love when Pek was hurt. He just wore down as the season when on, and I'd imagine that as the playoffs went down the tubes he didn't care as much. The entire team certain played that way down the stretch. As you mention, I'd expect a lot of that to change when he's got LeBron and Kyrie instead of Martin and Rubio. 

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

The Timberwolves didn't have a good reliable scorer after Love when Pek was hurt. He just wore down as the season when on, and I'd imagine that as the playoffs went down the tubes he didn't care as much. The entire team certain played that way down the stretch. As you mention, I'd expect a lot of that to change when he's got LeBron and Kyrie instead of Martin and Rubio. 

 
This is a very good point (and we have discussed the cast of misfit toys that Love had had to share the floor with over the years in Minnesota).  Love's fourth quarter scoring would look a hell of a lot better if he weren't the only guy capable of putting the ball in the basket on his team.  Some of those Minnesota rosters were criminal.  McHale really screwed that organization horribly.  

 

[moly99]

Also I haven't seen enough MIN games to know why Love is a poor 4th quarter scorer, but that will be a lot easier for him with the opposing defense having to worry about LBJ and Kyrie also. 

 
If I am being completely honest I have to admit that a fair chunk of the blame for that falls on Rubio. However Love has never been great at creating shots for himself.
 

Is Kyrie Irving hurt in this scenario? Because he's exactly the type of player that will be able to take the pressure off LeBron at the end of games. Creating his own offense is basically what Kyrie does.

 
Lebron also had help in 2003-2010. But he didn't have two way players. 2009 Shaq was still a force in the post, but his free throw shooting and deteriorating mobility really hurt them. Kyrie is a good PG, but he is also a matador on defense. Under this scenario where Lebron is the only good wing defender, Lebron has to fix the defensive problems caused by Kyrie.
 
If they could have added someone like Lance Stephenson and then traded for Love, I would have no problem with them trading Wiggins. But forcing Lebron to cover the defensive problems at 3 positions is going to be a disaster. He can't be their only good wing defender.

 

[jon abbey]

 
But forcing Lebron to cover the defensive problems at 3 positions is going to be a disaster. He can't be their only good wing defender.

 
I agree with this, but I also don't think it's so hard to find a role player like Sefalosha, and that lack of O will be covered up on the other end by LBJ/Love/Irving, like Durant/Westbrook were able to cover for Perkins and Sefalosha for years. Either way, whether they make this trade or not, CLE will have holes. 

 

[ishmael]

 
Kyrie is a good PG, but he is also a matador on defense. 

How much of this is a talent/technique issue and how much is pure effort? Maybe playing on a winner and with a worker like LeBron will force Kyrie to up his defensive game.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Just because there might be some overlap in defensive skills with Wiggins and Lebron, I don't think that's a problem at all.  Was Pippen redundant to Jordan defensively?
 
You don't want Lebron expending all his energy on D first of all, plus sometimes teams do have multiple wing threats.  You also have much more flexibility with your defensive strategy in regard to switches and substitution patters (not to mention injuries).
 
I don't know how good Wiggins will ultimately be defensively, but I see no issue at all with the "redundancy" of multiple good defensive wings.  He could be hugely valuable in that role, even on a team with Lebron.

This certainly is another angle....however Wiggins is still many years away from performing at a Championship level in this capacity. By the time he hits his stride the LeBron window will be closing or closed. It isn't often you have a small market team like this with an opportunity to win a Championship(s)......the time is now to put the necessary parts around LeBron. This isn't a rebuilding team where you can watch a 19-year old grow up.....this team is looking to win immediately and should be. It's about 2015-2018.