Well done. I laughed.
I think when P91 is quoting the Clinton campaign there really isn't much more to say.
Farrell Fails Again
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I think when P91 is quoting the Clinton campaign there really isn't much more to say.
So much of a fan, in fact, that I happen to be aware they're in the playoffs if the season ends this minute, as they have been nearly the entire season.
Cool. Have we spent more days in first place than anyone else? I hear that also matters somehow.
Strike one. Channel your inner stat-bot and my allusion will make itself known to you. It's a not quite a full day (say the sun rising and setting, in between which one has lunch), but it's more associated with twilight.
I'm relatively agnostic on Farrell too here but I still think the Wright pinch runner sub was a poor decision. That said, all in all I do worry about his management when the games count most and there's several other managers that I'd rather have making playoff decisions than him. Over a full season though.... .eh.... I could take him or leave him.
I think if the Sox can get to the ALCS this season he'll be back. Otherwise, he'll be gone. But most of the criticism of him is pretty silly. Most. This is one thread that needs to get buried.
I think if the Sox can get to the ALCS this season he'll be back. Otherwise, he'll be gone. But most of the criticism of him is pretty silly. Most. This is one thread that needs to get buried.
Time for another bump (not that this thread wasn't inactive).
Pomeranz is in the 8th inning for the first time in his career. Leaks a fastball over the plate to their shitty catcher, and he almost hits a HR. Only Abad is up, only after the 2nd out is Ziegler up. Then lead pipe candidate Rajai Davis lines a double on a hanging curve. Pomeranz was already done. Then John has to go to Abad against a CLE batter who's better against LHP than RHP.
John, what the fuck man.
Pomeranz is in the 8th inning for the first time in his career. Leaks a fastball over the plate to their shitty catcher, and he almost hits a HR. Only Abad is up, only after the 2nd out is Ziegler up. Then lead pipe candidate Rajai Davis lines a double on a hanging curve. Pomeranz was already done. Then John has to go to Abad against a CLE batter who's better against LHP than RHP.
John, what the fuck man.
Yeesh. I can see his thinking in leaving him in to face Martinez, who's pretty terrible, but with Davis up as a RHB I can't understand why Ziegler wasn't warm to face him. And only Porcello and Elias pitched yesterday, so the pen was in good shape.
For those wondering when Farrell gets called out in wins (although this one isn't over yet), bringing in Abad to face Ramirez and his 139 wRC+ vs. LHP might have been his worst move of the year which is saying something. Ramirez popping up a 3-1 meatball doesn't absolve him.
There isn't a single hitter in today's Indians lineup that Abad should have been brought in for. Ziegler could have been brought in for Davis (although Tito would have just PH Naquin who has murdered righties) but he should've been ready for Ramirez. Ziegler against a lefty isn't ideal, but at least it turns Ramirez around and he depresses slugging. Abad for Ramirez is suicide but hey, it worked!
There isn't a single hitter in today's Indians lineup that Abad should have been brought in for. Ziegler could have been brought in for Davis (although Tito would have just PH Naquin who has murdered righties) but he should've been ready for Ramirez. Ziegler against a lefty isn't ideal, but at least it turns Ramirez around and he depresses slugging. Abad for Ramirez is suicide but hey, it worked!
Well, it's not as if we need a big cushion for Kimbrel since he lately hasn't been able to find the plate with two hands and a flashlight....oh wait.
I think it's worth noting that he's got a closer on the mound in the 9th who cannot find the strike zone, and Zielger's already warm, yet he's allowing Kimbrel to keep on pitching. Why shouldn't he yank him before the game is lost?
I dsigaree, Stitch. This is where a manager's mettle is tested.
Kimbel somehow escaping with the save today should not have any bearing on a decision to take him out of the closer's role. He has zero idea where the ball is going; why should he be put into games with the outcome at stake? This would be the manager's opportunity to ignore the useless save stat and juggle bullpen roles so that any further struggles by Kimbrel don't automatically cost the team a game.
Somehow I doubt any change will be made.
Kimbel somehow escaping with the save today should not have any bearing on a decision to take him out of the closer's role. He has zero idea where the ball is going; why should he be put into games with the outcome at stake? This would be the manager's opportunity to ignore the useless save stat and juggle bullpen roles so that any further struggles by Kimbrel don't automatically cost the team a game.
Somehow I doubt any change will be made.
Keepin up the good work. Hilarious.
Anyway, Abad in there for Ramirez was crazytown, the only thing I can think is that he wanted to try and steal an out there with Abad and have Ziegler in case things got too hairy with Kimbrel. Which you could argue it did, but worked out ok in the end thankfully.
Of course it won't change. The guy has had one bad outing since returning from the DL. Hardly the kind of thing that's going to cost him his job.
I get that Kimbrel is a heart-attack style closer who will dig himself into trouble on occasion, but it's his job for better or worse. Any manager is going to trust him to do the job even in a spot like today's 9th.
Reportedly Zieglar wasn't ready yet. WHY? Also a missed opportunity in the exact spot that you PH your second catcher. Good win, solid start by Pomeranz against one of the top AL teams, but Jesus John.
See, though, Kimbrel said after his first appearance off the DL that the knee was still bothering him. Obviously, it affects his control. And today showed he's still not over it and can't throw strikes. There's a great deal of evidence that Kimbrel simply isn't physically ready to be used on high-lev situations right now.
Being a manager is damned difficult. It takes courage to make the right moves for the sake of the team. Farrell's a noted tough guy but I wonder if he will have the gall to demote Kmbrel until he gets his shit together.
What's he supposed to do when his whole pen is full of nothing but guys who take turns blowing games without any notice of whose turn it is on any particular day?
The object is to bring in the guy less likely to shit himself. Ziegler shitting himself likely only means a walk or single. Abad shitting himself potentially means extra bases which would've happened if Ramirez didn't just miss a 3-1 cookie. Abad should only be brought in for lefties that aren't going to be PH. Since Kipnis wasn't in the lineup, there wasn't any use for him unless it went to extras and he could've come in for Naquin/Santana (much weaker RH)/Kipnis.
In the 8th inning of a game in which his lefty starter has previously given up a bomb to the right handed batter who is coming up to bat, he is supposed to bring in Brad Ziegler to face that batter. That his starter is breaking new ground with respect to innings pitched also bears on the decision. So is the fact that Ziegler is generally quite good.
And to state the obvious, JF was supposed to anticipate the situation enough such that Ziegler would be ready. It's not as if Ziegler requires an extraordinary amount of time to get loose.
This is baffling to me. Kimbrel is your "best reliever." Two outings ago he looked totally off and Farrell yanked him. The following outing he looked solid and had a clean inning. He struggles out of the gate--which he does at times even when he's healthy--and so Farrell has a call to make. Stick with him/ Ziegler. There is a ton of noise around whether Kimbrel can get those three outs, owing to his coming off injury, so its a call he has to make. Ziegler is more likely to pitch to contact in getting those three outs and could easily give up a dribbler to tie the game, and Kimbrel at least misses bats. Farrell made the call to ride Kimbrel out, and it worked.
What am I missing?
What am I missing?
Of course it was an option. What else would you like to call it? Farrell had the option to remove Ortiz when he reached first base and he decided against doing it. Farrell had the option to remove Ortiz when he reached second base and he decided to do it. In both instances, Farrell was presented with an option and made a decision.
Farrell had other options: using a player on the bench or using a former NL starting pitcher (Pomeranz) who has more experience running the bases than Steven Wright.
As Hurley pointed out, the decision to bring in Wright was highly questionable at the time the decision was made. It is unfair to call this a criticism made in hindsight.
I agree with these points. Does it make sense to hold off on using the backup catcher? Sure, if your starting catcher gets hurt, you're screwed, but the chances of that happening in a four inning window (or so) are pretty remote. I would certainly be more willing to take that chance--burn my backup catcher--than use my best starting pitcher in a pinch running role when he hasn't run the bases since high school (or close to it).
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Wasn't able to watch (like, I was working, not I was covering my eyes in the corner somewhere). The 8th sounds like it was wtf bad and there should have been double barreled action to start the inning.
But let's not compound it by saying Farrell should replace Kimbrel. Because he gave up a leadoff double and a walk. Even setting aside the traditional arguments about managers showing deference to closers, clear roles, etc... I'm not convinced bringing Z in to face a bunch of lefties would be any better.
But let's not compound it by saying Farrell should replace Kimbrel. Because he gave up a leadoff double and a walk. Even setting aside the traditional arguments about managers showing deference to closers, clear roles, etc... I'm not convinced bringing Z in to face a bunch of lefties would be any better.
Giving Farrell benefit of the doubt on PH Leon today. With the flight last night and tonight, and the fact that he's never been a #1 catcher, resting him completely is probably a very defensible move.
Also cutting him a lot of slack on his bullpen management these days. As others have said, no one out there is doing their job. Leaving a starter in for another batter is defensible in that condition. Seems like the Abad decision was terrible even under those parameters though. The biggest test he has to pass is managing his pen in a way that produces four reliable relievers for October.
Also cutting him a lot of slack on his bullpen management these days. As others have said, no one out there is doing their job. Leaving a starter in for another batter is defensible in that condition. Seems like the Abad decision was terrible even under those parameters though. The biggest test he has to pass is managing his pen in a way that produces four reliable relievers for October.
God knows I would never want to be unfair in any discussion of the manager. And you are right, leaving Ortiz in the game was "an option." I was unfamiliar with the rules.
Kimbrel's long-term role is a different question then whether Kimbrel should have been yanked today after the first two batters when Ks were then at a premium because of the situation. If Kimbrel continues to have command issues then at some point they'll have to decide what his role should be, but I suspect that's an organizational decision rather than just Farrell's.
I don't think Farrell had the right guys in for the 8th inning today and managed himself into a horrible Abad/Ramirez matchup and don't think there's any question his in game management is a net negative, but I think exactly zero managers yank Kimbrel in the ninth inning and its not clear yanking him would have been the right move, so Im not really going to rip Farrell on that. At some point some of the top of the depth chart relievers are going to have to perform or else its all academic anyways. Luckily Kimbrel came back today and got the job done.
Yes. He has a dozen pitchers in the organization who've been adequate to very good in the major leagues. Turning that into an effective bullpen is the very definition of the job of a major league manager.
It's a lot easier to point to managerial decisions that "cost" teams games than decisions that "win" games, but can anyone point to a smart move Farrell's made this year that won a game? Moves that don't result in squanders or bullpen blowups don't count. I mean moves where afterwords you think "Good decision. That worked." I'm not suggesting there are any, but none come to mind.
I'm not on the "fire Farrell" bandwagon, (and hire who?) but I do think he's managing a team that should be on course to win 94-95 games into a wild-card slot. That's a former pitching coach and the Sox pitching sucks also makes him look bad whether it's his fault or not.
I'm not on the "fire Farrell" bandwagon, (and hire who?) but I do think he's managing a team that should be on course to win 94-95 games into a wild-card slot. That's a former pitching coach and the Sox pitching sucks also makes him look bad whether it's his fault or not.
Abad vs. Ramirez is a bad matchup, but so is Ziegler vs. Kipnis or Naquin. Ideally, you have good Tazawa ready for an inning like that, but who knows when good Tazawa is going to show up?
Oops, I missed that Ramirez is a SH who's good from both sides, so they didn't even need a PH to make it a bad matchup either way.
Oops, I missed that Ramirez is a SH who's good from both sides, so they didn't even need a PH to make it a bad matchup either way.
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Again, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that Hill, Brentz, Ortiz and Ramirez all made PH appearances in that game. Leon would have made that a 5 man bench.
If only there were some record and means to search for it to verify these things before going off and creating strawman arguments based on false assumptions.
Oh wait, boxscore. YTF's recollection is correct.
Hill pinch hit for Holt earlier in the 6th (doubled to drive in Shaw). Brentz was the first pinch hitter announced for Price. When the Dodgers went to their pen for Blanton, Ortiz was inserted in Brentz's place. So at the time Wright was used, the bench was Ramirez and Leon (and Wright and Pomeranz and Rodriguez).
I guess if you want to criticize roster management, you could question why Brentz was the choice to face Avilan in place of Price rather than just going with Ortiz in the first place. They ended up burning two bench players for one plate appearance.
Yeah. I'd say he made decisions in every single game the Sox won that helped them win that particular game. Prove me wrong.
Actually dont bother. its a stupid game. Because every time someone mentions anything (like pulling Kimbrel in favor of Barnes last week), the response is "I (or the love child of Helen Keller and Ray Charles) could have done that."
You should have stopped at the first comma.
So you think it was OK for Farrell to basically give away all those games when he played a completely AND obviously useless Young so that Young *might* help the team later? You still going to feel that way if they lose the division by 1 game?
As a Farrell hater, here are two decisions within the last week that I think have been quite positive: moving Pedey to leadoff and the bullpen management in the Buchholz / AZ game.
Yes, that game.
Yes, that game.
Giving away games? Geez. Young has a .734 OPS vs RHP you're making it sound like Farrell was sending up Tazawa to hit 4 times a game. Yeah he got off to a slow start vs RHP then later won us some games in these spots too.
Didn't there used to be a "search thread" function? Anyway, it may have been mentioned many times and I missed it, but I heard on mlbn that today's game was the first time in his career that Pomeranz had pitched in the eighth. If that's true, it's another reason to have Z. pitch to Davis. Davis doesn't appear to have much of a split, though: http://www.espn.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/28545/rajai-davis
Farrell, or any manager, is making marginal decisions throughout games that require a thought process. In the close games there are many decisions that managers make that assist in the victory. If you seriously cannot recognize what these decisions are during the game why even bother watching......you can simply look at the box score later if you can't appreciate the intracacies of the game.
He has a pretty big split for his career and has frequently been used as the weak side of a platoon / 4th OF type.
With the Indians able to PH a lefty for him, if you don't want to waste Z on a bad matchup, why not warm Barnes and Abad side by side to start the inning?
Could you provide some concrete examples of these "marginal decisions"?
I think it can be hard to draw a firm line between what input/advice/decisions are provided by the coaches (for example, shifting an outfielder deeper is something I gather Butterfield handles) and which decisions, marginal and otherwise, rise to the "manager's decision" these days.
This was all so much easier when we had Jimy to kick around.
I wish someone(s) would compile this data. Several pages ago @Cuzittt said that he and/or the .COM team would be happy to work with someone(s) on such a project. I hope someone(s) took them up on that.
Why are we focusing so much on Pomeranz making it into the eighth for the first time rather than his manageable pitch count and that he hadn't had to pitch through any real jams? The fourth was a bit squirrely, but he had four 1-2-3 innings, and another frame where a double play meant he faced the minimum.
He's thrown 7 full innings 11 times, including today, out of 72 career starts.
I think Farrell was a batter late with the hook, but it was defensible.
He's thrown 7 full innings 11 times, including today, out of 72 career starts.
I think Farrell was a batter late with the hook, but it was defensible.
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