Benintendi talk

[Fishy1]

I'm aware that this potentially a dangerous move for Benintendi's development -- even if he's the type of player who tends to take the transition well (low K%, good hit tool, good strike zone judgment), he hasn't had close to a full season at the higher levels.

Then again, there's a risk of flameout with every prospect when you promote them, no matter when it happens. Benintendi has barely been challenged by AA -- he had a rough May where he struck out 10 times in 47 ABs and hit .213, since then he's struck out just 20 times in 190 AB's and torn the cover off the damn ball. And there's a whole cadre of guys up there who've struggled when they started, and recently, and a major league staff that is used to handling that. If there's a kind of prospect you promote early, it's the kind like Benintendi -- the guy who hasn't been challenged by any level he's seen. The comparison to Mookie is desirable, but Mookie was better than Benintendi was at AA, and then at AAA, even if they profile similarly.

But then again again, almost every home-grown player we have has had some serious struggles either right out of the gate or close to it -- Pedroia's first call-up was a bummer (Jerry Remy calling for his vicarious second baseman, Alex Coragenius, to start), Bogaerts had a devastating first full season, Mookie had a bad April/May in 2015, and we won't even get into the Hell JBJ went through. Shit, Nomar sucked for 25 games.

Even if he does struggle, this team could have a hell of a internal trade deadline acquisition if things go as we might expect, between Kimbrel and Young returning, and Price hopefully creeping back towards being the great pitcher his peripherals suggest he should be (you can add Eduardo's discovery of a tenable slider to that list).

 

[sodenj5]

I know this is over simplistic for SoSH, but this team really needs a left handed bat in left field and the best outfielder in the system is a left handed bat in AA. It's just that simple.

He also happens to be a guy who's a top 10 prospect in baseball, an SEC player of the year, and someone who really hasn't had any issues hitting at any level after about 1-2 weeks of at bats.

I think the last point you made was key. Benintendi seems to scuffle for a week or two as he gets acclimated to the next level and then continues to rake like it's business as usual. I think he's shown he's mature enough to stick with his approach, make the adjustments needed, and the results usually follow. Even if he doesn't have immediate success, I think the front office is confident he won't get derailed and he can handle the adjustment period.

 

[Rovin Romine]

I have to ask - is this worth starting his service clock now, and burning an option? I would guess yes - given the tight race this year, and B's potential to be a competent LF, resting Holt, et.al. for the final run. I could also guess no, given that B's instant ceiling does not seem to be a game changer (dominant starter/true power threat), and his success at AA is less than a half season.

 

[Toe Nash]

I think the last point you made was key. Benintendi seems to scuffle for a week or two as he gets acclimated to the next level and then continues to rake like it's business as usual. I think he's shown he's mature enough to stick with his approach, make the adjustments needed, and the results usually follow. Even if he doesn't have immediate success, I think the front office is confident he won't get derailed and he can handle the adjustment period.

Just because he's been able to acclimate through AA means very little when we are talking about skipping AAA and going to the best league in the world. He may or may not do well this year but his performance against AA players means close to nothing (edit: specifically, the way that performance came about -- just because he was mediocre for a couple weeks before figuring it out in the minors doesn't mean he will follow a similar pattern in MLB). I'm also not sure how any FO would be able to judge guys who can make that jump vs guys who can't. I think this is a gamble -- probably a worthy one to take, but definitely a gamble.

 

[sodenj5]

Just because he's been able to acclimate through AA means very little when we are talking about skipping AAA and going to the best league in the world. He may or may not do well this year but his performance against AA players means close to nothing. I'm also not sure how any FO would be able to judge guys who can make that jump vs guys who can't. I think this is a gamble -- probably a worthy one to take, but definitely a gamble.

They go through the usual checklist, likely. Talk to scouts and coaches, look at his performance. His approach lends itself to good hitting and he's breezed through the minors thus far after being one of the best hitters in college the previous year. It's not like he's 19 and a year removed from high school.

I agree that it's a gamble and he will likely struggle at some point, but they must feel that he's an upgrade over Holt/Brentz or they wouldn't be doing this.

 

[Lowrielicious]

I have to ask - is this worth starting his service clock now, and burning an option? I would guess yes - given the tight race this year, and B's potential to be a competent LF, resting Holt, et.al. for the final run. I could also guess no, given that B's instant ceiling does not seem to be a game changer (dominant starter/true power threat), and his success at AA is less than a half season.

I'm firmly yes on this one.

The window is wide open with Mookie, JBJ, X. Pedroia still a force. Ortiz obviously. Price, porcello, Wright, Pomeranz, Kimbrel. By the time the option or burned service year becomes relevant most of those windows are firmly shut.
3 teams within a game of first in the divisions at the deadline. If benintendi performs above league average, and free holt up to do what he does best, combined may well be the one or two games difference to mean a division win rather than a wild card play-in.
Get this team into the best position to go deep into the playoffs while its here and ready.

 

[j44thor]

Benintendi will be the first Red Sox batter to reach the majors a year after being drafted since Fred Lynn in 1974. Good chance AB is the MVP next season.

 

[Redsteel67]

what is even more incredible for this franchise is that as good as Benintendi will be....Moncada is a superior talent and I think he will be a starting player on this team as early as next spring

I have made a point to see them both in AA games and I will tell you that Moncada has a scary type of explosiveness....in everything he does. His first step is explosive.....his bat speed.....the velocity on his throws. The ball just sound different coming off his bat

I dont think it is a stretch to say that in two years Yoan Moncada is the best player on the Red Sox

The future is very very bright

 

[moondog80]

I have to ask - is this worth starting his service clock now, and burning an option? I would guess yes - given the tight race this year, and B's potential to be a competent LF, resting Holt, et.al. for the final run. I could also guess no, given that B's instant ceiling does not seem to be a game changer (dominant starter/true power threat), and his success at AA is less than a half season.

I might be wrong but I don't think he hits FA any sooner getting called up now as a opposed to next April. To gain the year they'd have to do what the Cubs did with Kris Bryant, keep him in he minors until sometime next May, and I don't see that happening.

 

[grimshaw]

If you're in a pennant race, you don't worry about service time if it is an obvious upgrade.
The Red Sox don't really do those shenanigans anyhow, at least under this ownership.
If anything, Henry admitted two years ago that they were bringing up guys too early when they weren't fully developed.

 

[mauf]

I have to ask - is this worth starting his service clock now, and burning an option? I would guess yes - given the tight race this year, and B's potential to be a competent LF, resting Holt, et.al. for the final run. I could also guess no, given that B's instant ceiling does not seem to be a game changer (dominant starter/true power threat), and his success at AA is less than a half season.

I think the answer is yes, but it's regrettable. If any of Castillo, Young or Holt* had stayed healthy and performed as expected, then AB gets a September cup of coffee at most this season, then starts 2017 in Pawtucket. That would've been the right course for AB's development; the service time issue is a nice side benefit. That said, promoting AB was the least bad option, assuming the only alternatives were accepting a black hole of suck in LF on a contending team, or moving valuable pieces for an established LF (if that was even feasible). If AB is going to be a star, this early promotion won't ruin him, even if he struggles.


* - This is admittedly unfair to Brockstar, who was a stopgap solution himself.

 

[czar]

I might be wrong but I don't think he hits FA any sooner getting called up now as a opposed to next April. To gain the year they'd have to do what the Cubs did with Kris Bryant, keep him in he minors until sometime next May, and I don't see that happening.

It's actually only a couple weeks in April, but yes. Worth noting that if AB plays out the entire rest of the season on the roster, he could stay down in AAA through mid-June next year to get an extra year. This could be a consideration if he's more like JBJ upon arrival rather than Betts.

 

[absintheofmalaise]

I wrote up a short piece on the call-up sometime in the wee hours.

In his first AB at Fenway you should welcome him with this:

 

[joe dokes]

I have to ask - is this worth starting his service clock now, and burning an option? I would guess yes - given the tight race this year, and B's potential to be a competent LF, resting Holt, et.al. for the final run. I could also guess no, given that B's instant ceiling does not seem to be a game changer (dominant starter/true power threat), and his success at AA is less than a half season.

He doesn't have to be a game changer. If he approximates Holt's 90 ops+, plays solid defense, and allows Holt to be Holt and erase Martinez from our memories, then it will be a success.

One question that I should know the answer to.....bringing him up doesn't burn an option year, does it? I thought that only happened when they sent someone on the 40-man down ("optioned him to AAA").

 

[Detts]

At Arkansas he had 74 walks and 52 strikeouts
In the minors he has 74 walks and 63 strikeouts

I met his family at a Drive game (like 20 of them were at the game). Cheered every at bat and every play in the field he made. Talked to his dad a bit..really cool guy. Half way through the conversation I asked him how the Sox were treating Benny and his family. He gave me a canned response of 'they are treating us well...blah blah blah blah...he's just happy to be playing baseball. I stated 'Yah, because a Golden Spikes winner rarely gets drafted'. His face lit up with the biggest smile.

 

[lexrageorge]

I think the answer is yes, but it's regrettable. If any of Castillo, Young or Holt* had stayed healthy and performed as expected, then AB gets a September cup of coffee at most this season, then starts 2017 in Pawtucket. That would've been the right course for AB's development; the service time issue is a nice side benefit. That said, promoting AB was the least bad option, assuming the only alternatives were accepting a black hole of suck in LF on a contending team, or moving valuable pieces for an established LF (if that was even feasible). If AB is going to be a star, this early promotion won't ruin him, even if he struggles.


* - This is admittedly unfair to Brockstar, who was a stopgap solution himself.

I think the same would have been true if Swihart had not gotten hurt. He was looking more comfortable out there and at the plate when he got hurt.

I'm in the camp that sometimes the best solution is not the ideal solution. Personally, I'm happy to see that they've called him up as opposed to having traded him for another middle rotation arm.

 

[simplicio]

I might be wrong but I don't think he hits FA any sooner getting called up now as a opposed to next April. To gain the year they'd have to do what the Cubs did with Kris Bryant, keep him in he minors until sometime next May, and I don't see that happening.

Seems somewhat likely they'll pull that move with Moncada next year, doesn't it?

 

[DanoooME]

One question that I should know the answer to.....bringing him up doesn't burn an option year, does it? I thought that only happened when they sent someone on the 40-man down ("optioned him to AAA").

That is correct, if they keep him up the entire month of August, there will be no need to burn an option sending him back down. Rosters expand September 1st, so it's no longer an issue at that point.

 

[joe dokes]

That is correct, if they keep him up the entire month of August, there will be no need to burn an option sending him back down. Rosters expand September 1st, so it's no longer an issue at that point.

Thanks. Did a bit of looking and he also has to spend a total of 20 days optioned out to burn the year, so he really only has to stick around for roughly two weeks of August.

 

[Zososoxfan]

Does this also mean that Brentz is going down/taken off the 25-man? Beni has to at least be better than Brentz PH/PR late in games.

Brentz in 55 AB (SSS): 3 BB, 16 SO, .310 OBP, .674 OPS. He should stay on the roster until Young is back and then come off the 25-man, correct?

 

[AlNipper49]

At Arkansas he had 74 walks and 52 strikeouts
In the minors he has 74 walks and 63 strikeouts

I met his family at a Drive game (like 20 of them were at the game). Cheered every at bat and every play in the field he made. Talked to his dad a bit..really cool guy. Half way through the conversation I asked him how the Sox were treating Benny and his family. He gave me a canned response of 'they are treating us well...blah blah blah blah...he's just happy to be playing baseball. I stated 'Yah, because a Golden Spikes winner rarely gets drafted'. His face lit up with the biggest smile.

And with us there it was like 24 people in the entire park.

It was the first Clemson game of the year if I recall.

 

[smastroyin]

Re: options.

When you talk about burning the option year, it is not that they will burn an option in 2016. It's that they will now have to burn an option at any point they decide he shouldn't be on the 25 man roster. This means that if on April 1 of 2017 they decide he is better off getting AAA PA than MLB they will need to use an option. They wouldn't have needed that option if they didn't call him up now.

That said, the nature of higher profile position prospects means that if the Sox are worried about Benintendi's options in three years, he's probably been a huge disappointment. Even JBJ has an option left, despite his struggles and being on the shuttle. As well, the 2017 option was likely to be used either way.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Seems somewhat likely they'll pull that move with Moncada next year, doesn't it?

I believe they do and I feel that is what the plan would have been with AB as well due to the timing of his callup being the day after we didn't trade for Beltran, Bruce or another LF. Trading 3 weeks of a players rookie season for an additional year of control for a potential $20-30m per year player is a wise use of resources.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

And with us there it was like 24 people in the entire park.

It was the first Clemson game of the year if I recall.

Off topic. A buddy of mine use to be a basketball coach at Clemson and he once told me they get over 30,000 for their spring intrasquad football game.

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Does this also mean that Brentz is going down/taken off the 25-man? Beni has to at least be better than Brentz PH/PR late in games.

Brentz in 55 AB (SSS): 3 BB, 16 SO, .310 OBP, .674 OPS. He should stay on the roster until Young is back and then come off the 25-man, correct?

Nope - the corresponding 40-man move was to DFA Michael Martinez.

Brentz will most likely get optioned down when Young is healthy, assuming he's ready to come off the DL before rosters expand on 9/1.

 

[TheoShmeo]

I think your 2nd paragraph undermines your first. If "getting David to the playoffs" was the ultimate driver here, then they would have traded for a more sure thing. I think we're overthinking all this with the talk of "rushing" and "service clock." This is not the team's first attempt to get Holt back to the utility job that most agree he is best suited for and most helps the team. They think AB can help. (For better or worse, he's the best in-house option). They didn't want to trade any top-flight prospects to get, say Beltran or Reddick. That strikes me as the opposite of JWH wanting to win any more badly than usual. (He probably does, of course, but the team isn't acting like it).

I hear what you're saying but disagree. Meaning it's not all or nothing. Henry et al really want to get to the playoffs this year (David, the last few years of suck, general competiveness, etc.) and they are willing to stretch far to get there. It's just not playoffs or bust. I do think that they would have traded one of the two top prospects in the right deal but likely never got offered anything that they felt good about. In short, the two ideas can live together in my view.

 

[shaggydog2000]

Off topic. A buddy of mine use to be a basketball coach at Clemson and he once told me they get over 30,000 for their spring intrasquad football game.

There are exactly zero pro sports teams in South Carolina (The "Carolina" teams are all in NC). Got to root for something. Pro sports didn't expand into the south in general until the 60's, and most of those teams were WHA/ABA/AFL alternative league teams at the time. Complete opposite of the Boston sports scene.

 

[timlinin8th]

I'm aware that this potentially a dangerous move for Benintendi's development -- even if he's the type of player who tends to take the transition well (low K%, good hit tool, good strike zone judgment), he hasn't had close to a full season at the higher levels.

At some point, with any prospect, you have to make the move. Does the likelihood of a rough transition, or "development issue", change if he gets a roster spot next season?

There are enough good players on the team where he's not being asked to be "the man", as said above he only needs to approximate what Holt has been able to do, and being in a platoon even if he has some scuffles is being given the lightest workload possible. Seems like the best way to go.

 

[BaseballJones]

I thought they'd call him up in September.

I'm pumped it's now.

I suspect he will struggle a little right off the bat but will be, if you pardon the expression, in full swing by mid August. And I think he will be a significant upgrade for this team in September.

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

I thought they'd call him up in September.

I'm pumped it's now.

I suspect he will struggle a little right off the bat but will be, if you pardon the expression, in full swing by mid August. And I think he will be a significant upgrade for this team in September.

And depending on Benintendi's performance, the Red Sox will have a much better idea how to realistically approach the offseason outfield situation.

 

[soxhop411]

Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe 35m35 minutes ago
#RedSox plan to use Benintendi in a platoon in LF and return Holt to a utility role. Expect Benintendi's first start on Wednesday.

***

I know, break him in slowly. I get it. But his minor league numbers are pretty good against lefties, so why the platoon? How does he get a chance to show he can hit lefties on the major-league level, if they don't let him face them?

I assume this decision was not Farrell's alone given the player we are talking about. I'm pretty sure DD had some input on how he was going to be used.

 

[dbn]

In the big picture not important, but I'm glad for him that he'll have the opportunity to play on the same team as David Ortiz for at least a bit.

 

[joe dokes]

I assume this decision was not Farrell's alone given the player we are talking about. I'm pretty sure DD had some input on how he was going to be used.

Seems to me more like "break him in slowly." Which is pretty standard-issue Farrell. Other than not letting starters throw 175 pitches, I doubt there are very many edicts from the FO on how to use players. If Farrell had indicated that he doesn't think Brentz belongs on an MLB field, AB would be playing more.

 

[Rovin Romine]

After reading all the input in this thread, I'm coming around to the idea that this is a good decision. The downside is at worst, burning an option year when he's 27-ish (by which time he really should be up for good, unless completely snakebitten and derailed by injuries), or perhaps interfering with his development a la JBJ? The upside is he's a legitimate piece of the puzzle during a playoff run, the last of such Ortiz might contribute to.

So, if anyone is feeling generous, it would be awesome to donate your time for us and generate a Cot's-like .xls breakdown of our young players, the options left, and the years of pre-arb, arb, and FA. Because we have TOO MANY talented young pre-arb MLB players to keep track of. I'd like to see "the Window."

(I never really thought I'd type that, rooting for the Sox. It was always how to lock up one player at a time. Vaughn. Then Nomar. Then Varitek, etc. )

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

So, it looks like he has fewer than 50 innings in left.

The Sox look like they will be facing at least 4 righties in the next 7 games, which gives him at least 4 games to play left field in nice, big symmetrical ballparks.

But whatever we might say about Holt's bat, at least he seems to have developed some familiarity with the Monster. One recent slid-too-early notwithstanding, it's been a real relief to have someone back there who seems to be able to occasionally play doubles into singles and who rarely if ever plays doubles into triples. The thought of a pennant race in the last two months of the season with a guy getting significant reps in Fenway's left field, when he hasn't really played the position at the pro level, is a bit of a concern.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

In the big picture not important, but I'm glad for him that he'll have the opportunity to play on the same team as David Ortiz for at least a bit.

Intangible for sure, but he can learn a lot just from being around the big man for a few months.

 

[keninten]

I just hope he can do the dance

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

After reading all the input in this thread, I'm coming around to the idea that this is a good decision. The downside is at worst, burning an option year when he's 27-ish (by which time he really should be up for good, unless completely snakebitten and derailed by injuries), or perhaps interfering with his development a la JBJ? The upside is he's a legitimate piece of the puzzle during a playoff run, the last of such Ortiz might contribute to.

So, if anyone is feeling generous, it would be awesome to donate your time for us and generate a Cot's-like .xls breakdown of our young players, the options left, and the years of pre-arb, arb, and FA. Because we have TOO MANY talented young pre-arb MLB players to keep track of. I'd like to see "the Window."

(I never really thought I'd type that, rooting for the Sox. It was always how to lock up one player at a time. Vaughn. Then Nomar. Then Varitek, etc. )

Cots has that. Just click the link for future obligations and there's an excel spreadsheet that lays out everyone on 40 man roster.

Edit: apparently can't post direct link. Here's the sox page. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/al-east/boston-red-sox/

 

[Rovin Romine]

Cots has that. Just click the link for future obligations and there's an excel spreadsheet that lays out everyone on 40 man roster.

Edit: apparently can't post direct link. Here's the sox page. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/al-east/boston-red-sox/

Cots has mostly that. Some lines are blank (not showing earliest possible FA), and none show options. I guess an even better version would show physical age as well. We have a ton of prime years of very skilled players coming toward us.

 

[Curt S Loew]

I just hope he can do the dance

It's really not that hard. I mean......Brentz can do it.

 

[jimbobim]

For those concerned about this promotion development wise I would point to the current crop of top 20 position and even pitcher prospects on MLB Pipeline. All those guys have been promoted to the bigs, most recently, Bregman and the more seasoned Dahl with the exception of team way out of it like the Phillies with their SS stud. Also the SEC experience has consistently been cited as reason for him being very advanced from a plate discipline perspective.

Get the perhaps likely initial 2 week struggle out of the way, get rest for Pedey, X, Shaw, hell even Hanley as Brock can play some 1b. Find out if the bat, approach, and overall game is as promising as all your scouts,industry, and rival scouts have said.

It doesn't hurt that Brentz has looked completely overmatched recently and the lineup has looked desperate for any new addition.

Only concern for me ?

That damn brick wall of death down the corner in LF in front the of the Monster that maimed Blake and Hanley. Tell him repeatedly just let that ball drop unless it's the damn world series. They've lost too much production to that damn thing.

 

[snowmanny]

I am incredibly excited about this.

You must be very very surprised.

 

[Captaincoop]

All I'm asking for is 1991 Phil Plantier. Double-digit bombs, .400 OBP, some heroics in Yankee Stadium, my kids using his stance in wiffleball for the next six months...

 

[E5 Yaz]

Andrew Benintendi ‏@asben16 1h1 hour ago
So grateful to everyone in the @PortlandSeaDogs organization for all the support, can't thank you enough!

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

I just hope he can do the dance

Speaking of fitting into the current crew, if Benintendi takes the full-time LF job next year, and he, Betts & Bradley all are batting title qualifiers, it will be the first time since 1942 that a team has had three full-time outfielders 5'10" or under.

 

[AbbyNoho]

Andrew Benintendi ‏@asben16 1h1 hour ago
So grateful to everyone in the @PortlandSeaDogs organization for all the support, can't thank you enough!

Sounds like he doesn't expect to ever come back. Going to AAA when he gets sent down again, then?

 

[soxhop411]

Red Sox Stats
Red Sox Stats – ‏@redsoxstats

Farrell says the Benintendi/Brentz platoon is just to get his feet under him. JBJ will probably get a day off soon, as will X and Pedroia

 

[BaseballJones]

Speaking of fitting into the current crew, if Benintendi takes the full-time LF job next year, and he, Betts & Bradley all are batting title qualifiers, it will be the first time since 1942 that a team has had three full-time outfielders 5'10" or under.

Smaller guys who are all athletic and who can all hit the crap out of the ball.

I hope this group stays together for a very long time.

 

[chrisfont9]

If you're in a pennant race, you don't worry about service time if it is an obvious upgrade.
The Red Sox don't really do those shenanigans anyhow, at least under this ownership.
If anything, Henry admitted two years ago that they were bringing up guys too early when they weren't fully developed.

I guess if there weren't a playoff spot to fight for, they might suffer through with Brentz or whomever, but I hope and suspect that the real impetus for this callup is that the team's evaluators have concluded that he's ready. Age-wise, he's close to Betts and Bogaerts, and while you might want to save his service time for the back end, on the other hand you might prefer to maximize his time in the same lineup as the other three Bs.
[edit] adding, I was going to wait til Thursday to head to Safeco, but maybe if the team I'm coaching has a big enough lead Wednesday I can sneak out by 7:30 or so and head down there. The joys of being 10 minutes from a major league baseball team (at least the visiting ones).

 

[Bunt4aTriple]

Do we have a uni number yet for this guy? I need to change my network password today. Serendipitous!