2018 TB Off-Season Thread

[Super Nomario]

Well enough to back up a few games if Brady went down, to salvage a season until Brady returned. JB played 16.

Check Hoyer’s stats when he played 13 games for Cleveland then 16 for Houston then try to make the case he was appreciably better than Brissett was for Indy last season.

He was appreciably better those seasons (INT rate worse and completion percentage about the same but his Y/C was 1.5 yards better, leading to his Y/A being almost a yard better, he threw way more TD, and he got sacked about half as often. ANY/A, my favorite shorthand one-stop-shop stat, had Hoyer as 6.20 in those two seasons, Brissett 5.26). Whether he is still appreciably better, given how poorly he played in SF and their respective ages, is a fair debate.

 

[dcmissle]

So the suggestion is that Brissett was sufficiently valuable as a backup that he should not have been dealt for Phillip Dorsett, and that had he been retained maybe the Pats would have had more options and more leverage on the JG trade. Those are pretty modest suggestions.

Not crushing them for trading JG, or paying a hefty insurance premium for 2017, which dictated when he was traded. I was one of the major insurance proponents.

If the course of dealing throughout was determined by, “yeah, we’ll be able to keep JG for a couple more years on a deal the team can live with,” then those were some awesome rose colored glasses. He would have been crazy not to shoot his way out of town.

 

[BigJimEd]

EDIT: also, I've pulling for Jimmy G, but if him succeeding means we're going to relitigate the trade every couple months for years on end, I hope he fails hard. Nothing new has happened, no one is saying anything new but for some reason people feel the need to opine about it.

Seriously. Is there anything about this that hasn't been discussed ad nauseam on this site. I'm not getting pulled down this rabbit hole again.

 

[dcmissle]

This will be with us for a while, and at least we’re well above the “B.B. made that trade to fuck Kraft” level of discussion.

Don’t think for a minute that B.B. doesn’t appreciate the value of trading the shit out of that second rounder to the point that who came back for JG is hopelessly camouflaged. Not the primary reason, but certainly a subsidiary benefit. And not that he cares, he plainly doesn’t — but a 22 year old might, with the media douchebags in town.

This will last until a legit successor seems in place, unless KG craps the bed, which seems unlikely at this point.

 

[Captaincoop]

Yup. They carried QB insurance throughout 2017, paid a heavy premium, and that is far from crazy.

Agree on Brissett. Bill choked on sacrificing another roster spot when he probably shouldn’t have. Or, he was way over his skis on the likelihood of persuading JG to stick around.

Or he had a different plan for QB in 2018 that got shut down by Kraft, forcing him into the 49ers offer. We just don't know for sure.

 

[joe dokes]

This will be with us for a while, and at least we’re well above the “B.B. made that trade to fuck Kraft” level of discussion.

Don’t think for a minute that B.B. doesn’t appreciate the value of trading the shit out of that second rounder to the point that who came back for JG is hopelessly camouflaged. Not the primary reason, but certainly a subsidiary benefit. And not that he cares, he plainly doesn’t — but a 22 year old might, with the media douchebags in town.

This will last until a legit successor seems in place, unless KG craps the bed, which seems unlikely at this point.

I dont think there will be regrets for letting KG throw for another team :

 

[j-man]

I realize that you're a fan of a competing team, so you may not realize the cap implications of trading Brady to keep Garropolo. Depending upon who you believe, the Pats would have absorbed a dead money charge of either $14M or $28M (I've heard both figures reported). There is no way to reduce or eliminate or somehow "work around" this cap hit, no matter what Felger claims about the "cap being crap".

Then the team would have needed to find room to sign Jimmy G, who was unlikely to sign for a below-market contract. Or the Pats could have franchised him, absorbing a $23M cap hit, which is still less than the $37M of cap space that he takes up on the 49'ers roster. Either way, you'd be looking at dedicating somewhere between $37M and $51M in cap space for one roster position. Trading Gronk would have saved $6M, but that would still leave the team over the cap with no way to bring in the players they did bring in this offseason.

Did Bill leave a meeting with the Krafts upset and angry? May have happened. Why? One theory is that one of the Krafts had gotten off the phone with Don Yee (agent for both QB's), and Yee had made it clear in no uncertain terms that there was no way Jimmy G was going to take any "home town discount" to stay with Pats.

I believe it when I hear Bill say they would have loved to have kept both QB's in 2018. But there was simply no way to make it happen without gutting the rest of the roster. And that has nothing to do with Kraft, Bill, Volin, or Felger; it's just simple math.

the cap is not crap as a fan of a team with no QB or as the very best let say the num 15 or 16 QB in the NFL

u couild had fran jimmy g for 23 mil for 1 year at the very least this light a fire under brady to wear he is with u all off season

i think u had 31 mil under as of march 2018 not sure

then is brady pulls this stuff u have the hammer brady is the goat no q and jimmy will not be as good as brady when they are both done but he shouild win a SB or Two and other than 1 akward year maybe 2 then u get to reset for 10 years

if Kraft was so sared of Brady on any other team u put brady on revire retired for 2 years and then cut him at 43 years old the only bad thing about this plan is eating brady's cap for 2 years or faceing a lawsuit by the NFLPA

but if i was Kraft i say we will only cut u if u go to a nfc team or re-do your conact to the vet min with no extra cap chage so if u do cut him u get that cap money back

but that is plob not allowed ex in madden on madden CFM mode u can cut any player bring him back then go to your coach owner pic click on it go to Clear cap Pentles click it and u save a lot of cap

 

[dcmissle]

An immensely productive use of BB’s time, which our coach must have enjoyed. Cuz how do you blow off POTUS?

 

[luckiestman]

An immensely productive use of BB’s time, which our coach must have enjoyed. Cuz how do you blow off POTUS?

I just posted in the Kraft thread as it’s a VN non football thread. ICYMI, I said the Todd Bowles Sam Darnold bandwagon is still accepting passengers.

 

[dcmissle]

I just posted in the Kraft thread as it’s a VN non football thread. ICYMI, I said the Todd Bowles Sam Darnold bandwagon is still accepting passengers.

Well I put it here because I want to be amused by cries of “fake news — just like the Wickersham piece!”

I’m on record. I don’t give a rat’s ass about who our troika count as their friends so long as they continue to kick ass on the football field.

 

[heavyde050]

the cap is not crap as a fan of a team with no QB or as the very best let say the num 15 or 16 QB in the NFL

u couild had fran jimmy g for 23 mil for 1 year at the very least this light a fire under brady to wear he is with u all off season

i think u had 31 mil under as of march 2018 not sure

then is brady pulls this stuff u have the hammer brady is the goat no q and jimmy will not be as good as brady when they are both done but he shouild win a SB or Two and other than 1 akward year maybe 2 then u get to reset for 10 years

if Kraft was so sared of Brady on any other team u put brady on revire retired for 2 years and then cut him at 43 years old the only bad thing about this plan is eating brady's cap for 2 years or faceing a lawsuit by the NFLPA

but if i was Kraft i say we will only cut u if u go to a nfc team or re-do your conact to the vet min with no extra cap chage so if u do cut him u get that cap money back

but that is plob not allowed ex in madden on madden CFM mode u can cut any player bring him back then go to your coach owner pic click on it go to Clear cap Pentles click it and u save a lot of cap

It is really hard to win Super Bowls. I am not sure if Jimmy will ever get another ring (though he may).
I also don’t know if Jimmy and BB would have won one or two more titles (starting in 2018).
I guess we will never know. But I just watched Brady play QB about as well as possible and the Pats still lost.
Winning Super Bowls is very difficult.

 

[luckiestman]

Well I put it here because I want to be amused by cries of “fake news — just like the Wickersham piece!”

I’m on record. I don’t give a rat’s ass about who our troika count as their friends so long as they continue to kick ass on the football field.

Good for you, I respect that. I’ve mentioned it before but my all time favorite SoSH posts are the martyr style “Yeah! Well..I’m gunna stop watching when we suck again” it takes me back to some barroom type shit I would hear from the drunks at the VFW when I was a child.

 

[InstaFace]

Well I put it here because I want to be amused by cries of “fake news — just like the Wickersham piece!”

I’m on record. I don’t give a rat’s ass about who our troika count as their friends so long as they continue to kick ass on the football field.

I'm with you on the latter. And on the former, we have no reason to doubt that NYT report, whereas we have plenty of reason to doubt Wickersham's characterization of the inner feelings of the team's principals that he was reporting on - feelings and events that could be known, at most, to about a dozen people. None of whom have ever really had an axe to grind internally. And about behavior that goes against what we'd observed for 18 years.

Donald Trump spending time that he could have been spending doing the job that America hired him for instead talking to Bill Belichick about Tom Brady surprises exactly nobody, probably including Linda Holliday. Somewhere on a fishing boat or whatever, Devin McCourty is probably telling his brother "yeah, coach really took one for the team the other day".

 

[luckiestman]

I'm with you on the latter. And on the former, we have no reason to doubt that NYT report, whereas we have plenty of reason to doubt Wickersham's characterization of the inner feelings of the team's principals that he was reporting on - feelings and events that could be known, at most, to about a dozen people. None of whom have ever really had an axe to grind internally. And about behavior that goes against what we'd observed for 18 years.

Donald Trump spending time that he could have been spending doing the job that America hired him for instead talking to Bill Belichick about Tom Brady surprises exactly nobody, probably including Linda Holliday. Somewhere on a fishing boat or whatever, Devin McCourty is probably telling his brother "yeah, coach really took one for the team the other day".

The more time he spends with B.B. the better. Don’t lose the plot. You don’t actually want him crafting policy.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Well I put it here because I want to be amused by cries of “fake news — just like the Wickersham piece!”

I’m on record. I don’t give a rat’s ass about who our troika count as their friends so long as they continue to kick ass on the football field.

And it’s appreciated by the other half of us who don’t take every tweet, rumor or article to mean it’s the fall of the Ming Dynasty in Foxboro.

There’s a gap between reflexively crying ‘fake news!!’ and taking every word written as gospel. That strikes me as a dichotomy that has permeated this forum for a while now. Ymmv.

 

[InstaFace]

Good for you, I respect that. I’ve mentioned it before but my all time favorite SoSH posts are the martyr style “Yeah! Well..I’m gunna stop watching when we suck again” it takes me back to some barroom type shit I would hear from the drunks at the VFW when I was a child.

Well, I'm one of them, so laugh it up, fuzzball. If baseball were run like the NFL is run, and the sport had so many incredibly negative externalities, I might've found something else to do once Pedro and Manny left the team. If they were even still permitted to express their personalities in a manner as entertaining as they were, that is.

The NFL takes emotional work to follow. And that burden has accelerated in recent years, with everything from domestic violence to CTE to squashing political protests to ever-more-inane talking heads and manufactured drama. If I didn't luck into getting to cheer for two people so breathtakingly good at their jobs that it's literally inspirational, I don't know why I'd bother. I seriously get more enjoyment out of watching a top-flight game of ultimate frisbee than I do watching a regular-season NFL game that doesn't involve the Patriots. Life's too short to put time into something that brings you no joy, right? Or is eternally futile and frustrating? Every time I watch a game that doesn't involve the Patriots, even the minor coaching mistakes that give WP% away for free drive me up a wall. We are spoiled absolutely rotten, perfection in preparation and execution flashing before our screens ~18 times a year... and it's still barely enough.

Guys like you who follow a team through thick and thin are truer fans, there's no doubt. Hats off to you for getting something out of the camraderie, tribalism and hope-springing-eternal, enough to sustain your interest. But likewise, maybe those VFW drunks of yours had some veritas with their vino, too.

The more time he spends with B.B. the better. Don’t lose the plot. You don’t actually want him crafting policy.

I just hope you're appreciating the sacrifice the rest of us Pats fans are making

 

[luckiestman]

Well, I'm one of them, so laugh it up, fuzzball. If baseball were run like the NFL is run, and the sport had so many incredibly negative externalities, I might've found something else to do once Pedro and Manny left the team. If they were even still permitted to express their personalities in a manner as entertaining as they were, that is.

The NFL takes emotional work to follow. And that burden has accelerated in recent years, with everything from domestic violence to CTE to squashing political protests to ever-more-inane talking heads and manufactured drama. If I didn't luck into getting to cheer for two people so breathtakingly good at their jobs that it's literally inspirational, I don't know why I'd bother. I seriously get more enjoyment out of watching a top-flight game of ultimate frisbee than I do watching a regular-season NFL game that doesn't involve the Patriots. Life's too short to put time into something that brings you no joy, right? Or is eternally futile and frustrating? Every time I watch a game that doesn't involve the Patriots, even the minor coaching mistakes that give WP% away for free drive me up a wall. We are spoiled absolutely rotten, perfection in preparation and execution flashing before our screens ~18 times a year... and it's still barely enough.

Guys like you who follow a team through thick and thin are truer fans, there's no doubt. Hats off to you for getting something out of the camraderie, tribalism and hope-springing-eternal, enough to sustain your interest. But likewise, maybe those VFW drunks of yours had some veritas with their vino, too.


I just hope you're appreciating the sacrifice the rest of us Pats fans are making [emoji14]

Good post, some decent points. My takeaway is this, I’m putting you down as a “maybe” on the Darnold bandwagon, I’ll hold a slot and we’ll revisit if he makes the pro bowl on a few years.

 

[Reverend]

The more time he spends with B.B. the better. Don’t lose the plot. You don’t actually want him crafting policy.

For a second, I thought you meant that we didn't want Belichick crafting policy, and I was prepared to vociferously disagree. But then I reread your post.

 

[Reverend]

Well, I'm one of them, so laugh it up, fuzzball. If baseball were run like the NFL is run, and the sport had so many incredibly negative externalities, I might've found something else to do once Pedro and Manny left the team. If they were even still permitted to express their personalities in a manner as entertaining as they were, that is.

The NFL takes emotional work to follow. And that burden has accelerated in recent years, with everything from domestic violence to CTE to squashing political protests to ever-more-inane talking heads and manufactured drama. If I didn't luck into getting to cheer for two people so breathtakingly good at their jobs that it's literally inspirational, I don't know why I'd bother. I seriously get more enjoyment out of watching a top-flight game of ultimate frisbee than I do watching a regular-season NFL game that doesn't involve the Patriots. Life's too short to put time into something that brings you no joy, right? Or is eternally futile and frustrating? Every time I watch a game that doesn't involve the Patriots, even the minor coaching mistakes that give WP% away for free drive me up a wall. We are spoiled absolutely rotten, perfection in preparation and execution flashing before our screens ~18 times a year... and it's still barely enough.

Guys like you who follow a team through thick and thin are truer fans, there's no doubt. Hats off to you for getting something out of the camraderie, tribalism and hope-springing-eternal, enough to sustain your interest. But likewise, maybe those VFW drunks of yours had some veritas with their vino, too.


I just hope you're appreciating the sacrifice the rest of us Pats fans are making

Without the NFL, I'm not sure how I'd follow what much of America thinks about important social issues.

I think it's fairly... whatever, I lack the word, but it's SOMETHING that the NFL has become one of the key vehicles for discussing important social issues in America but, well, it fucking happened.

And yes, by the same token, I would gladly see a vengeful deity sink every football stadium in the country into the ground in exchange for getting Tanis back.

 

[luckiestman]

For a second, I thought you meant that we didn't want Belichick crafting policy, and I was prepared to vociferously disagree. But then I reread your post.

Oh no, I actually think that would be much better. My ideal guy is Brad Stevens though. There is not one politician I have seen that I would choose over Brad.

 

[Reverend]

Oh no, I actually think that would be much better. My ideal guy is Brad Stevens though. There is not one politician I have seen that I would choose over Brad.

I've got my eye on one of his mentees, myself...

And he's got Adam Duritz's endorsement already!

 

[luckiestman]

I've got my eye on one of his mentees, myself...

And he's got Adam Duritz's endorsement already!

Oh Jesus, you’re way more of a dreamer than I thought.

 

[Reverend]

Oh Jesus, you’re way more of a dreamer than I thought.

Yeah, well, I'm not counting my crows before they're hatched...

 

[dcmissle]

The upside of friends in high places is obvious. The downside is having to field calls like this.

It’s hilarious because B.B. is Saban like with his time, and it’s almost impossible to imagine a bigger waste of time from BB’s standpoint. “What’s goin’ on with Tommy, Bill? Please tell me things are going to be alright ...”

Gotcha coach.

 

[SMU_Sox]

It's time to put this to bed.

Trump isn't making the starting roster. I know Belichick likes him but he has a few problems. Trump is old for a prospect as he will turn 72 before the season starts. Even though his medical report was glowing anonymous scouts have questioned the authenticity of it while praising his path to success given the hotness of his wives and girlfriends, "If he's healthy enough for them he's healthy enough to play defensive end for us," one anonymous NFC West scout quipped.

He's got good size for an end but with his baby hands and mid-section I am afraid he is already maxed out and will need help keeping his weight under control. He doesn't take well to coaching and when he talks he reminds me of Malik McDowell. His social media and views are divisive and most NFL franchises have been avoiding him. If Trump doesn't get drafted or signed he could join Eric Reid in his collusion suit.

He's disruptive at the point of attack but is fooled easily on misdirections or fakes. He always takes the bait. Pass.

 

[Leather]

None of it really matters, it's just embarrassing. And it's hard to reconcile BB, who by all accounts is a guy who values intellect and accountability above nearly all else, being phone buddies with Trump.

That being said, who the hell knows what BB really thinks of Trump. They may be golfing buddies through Kraft and nothing more and this is basically a one-sided relationship where Trump considers Belichick a part of his stable of Wonderful Spectacular Friends and BB considers Trump a guy you don't want to piss off and must quietly tolerate.

Or they could be legitimately sympatico on any number of things. We don't really know.

But it doesn't *matter*. It's just embarrassing and I wish it wasn't so.

 

[Reverend]

None of it really matters, it's just embarrassing. And it's hard to reconcile BB, who by all accounts is a guy who values intellect and accountability above nearly all else, being phone buddies with Trump.

That being said, who the hell knows what BB really thinks of Trump. They may be golfing buddies through Kraft and nothing more and this is basically a one-sided relationship where Trump considers Belichick a part of his stable of Wonderful Spectacular Friends and BB considers Trump a guy you don't want to piss off and must quietly tolerate.

Or they could be legitimately sympatico on any number of things. We don't really know.

But it doesn't *matter*. It's just embarrassing and I wish it wasn't so.

One thing I'm pretty certain of: He knows he's friends with his boss.

 

[dcmissle]

Move over Kirk. Matt Ryan 5 yrs, $150. Per radio, $100 guaranteed.

So that’s 2 x Tom right, if Matt hits $30 AAV the next 3 years?

 

[johnmd20]

Move over Kirk. Matt Ryan 5 yrs, $150. Per radio, $100 guaranteed.

So that’s 2 x Tom right, if Matt hits $30 AAV the next 3 years?

No reason to think this contract will severely hamper Atlanta's chances in 2021, 2022, and 2023.

 

[axx]

Move over Kirk. Matt Ryan 5 yrs, $150. Per radio, $100 guaranteed.

So that’s 2 x Tom right, if Matt hits $30 AAV the next 3 years?

Brady's cap hit is $22M each for the final two years of the deal.

 

[dcmissle]

No reason to think this contract will severely hamper Atlanta's chances in 2021, 2022, and 2023.

None at all. The cap goes up, QBs get paid.

This lasts 5 minutes until ... Green Bay

 

[j-man]

It is really hard to win Super Bowls. I am not sure if Jimmy will ever get another ring (though he may).
I also don’t know if Jimmy and BB would have won one or two more titles (starting in 2018).
I guess we will never know. But I just watched Brady play QB about as well as possible and the Pats still lost.
Winning Super Bowls is very difficult.

The Eagles just played perfect that day i have to admit brady's decline might not come until 2020 or so which would my long paragraph moot and maybe the end will never happened but when it does it mostly comes in a blindside hit ie Leonard Marshall on montana Manning aga the RAMS in 2014 after that game manning was never the same and Corey Wooton hit on fave in 2010

u are right i think we are seeing a phase to where the NFC could win 6 Super bowls in 8 years or 8 super bowls in 10 years

 

[dcmissle]

Love QB baby drama. NFL’s Lebron, Baby Ben Hamlet, butt hurt by the draft. Retirement talk no more; now, 3 to 5 years.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/05/01/ben-roethlisberger-if-mason-rudolphs-the-guy-it-wont-be-for-a-while/

Perspective part II. The next time Steeler-fan-friend gently pokes you about a certain celebrity (not gritty) QB, do remind him or her about this week-long nervous breakdown:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/05/05/ben-wonders-which-of-his-backups-will-get-fired/

Credit is due for reportedly disclosing his 3-5 year plan in advance of the draft, but Ben you have been teasing retirement for years and at the end, we’re still talking about Mason Rudolph/third round. Kevin Colbert must be thrilled about the unsolicted draft counseling, and the QB room must be gushing about this game, “who is Colbert’s bust?”

In the mythology jointed crafted by Harbaugh and Tomlin — “AFC North football, baby — Ram tough” — isn’t there a chapter about mental resilience? Pertinent even if you got your teeth knocked out??

As usual, lead the League in whining, this AFC North.

 

[luckiestman]

 

[InstaFace]

My Pittsburgher wife: "Looks like Black and Gold on there, sorry to tell you he's going to the Stillers."

Her southerner dad: "Nah, that's a fleur-de-lys on the lapels, he's telling us it's New Orleans. I bet Archie Manning will adopt him, too. Sorry, man, rough day for you."

 

[DJnVa]

 

[BunnzMcGinty]

Still recovering from a Botox and chemical peel... but Giselle looks good.

 

[BigSoxFan]

He looks so uncomfortable there. Always cracks me up.

 

[Salva135]

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in that place. Who does he talk to? Arod?

 

[InstaFace]

And you may say to yourself, "this is not my beautiful Eyes Wide Shut dress-up party with supermodels!"

 

[nattysez]

Dude, you gave hair restoration a good run. Just let it go. He's like Jeremy Piven, qb edition.

 

[Van Everyman]

 

[TheoShmeo]

He looks so uncomfortable there. Always cracks me up.

I dunno, it's a level of discomfort that I would be more than willing to suffer. Even with that horrible jacket.

Good to see Tom enjoying some family time.

 

[streeter88]

Looks like a cross between Steven Seagal and Joaquín Phoenix (Gladiator version), screaming "Am I not merciful?" as he crushes the best of the NFC in SB LIII....

 

[GoDa]

He looks cool.

Needs to sell a knockoff version of the outfit in the TB12 store.

 

[Pandemonium67]

More pics here and a few good twitter comments. My favorite: "Tom Brady look like the accountant for a mariachi band."

 

[E5 Yaz]

They're wearing matching nail polish

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

So am I.

Got a problem with it?

 

[Bleedred]

"Bow down to Zod"

 

[Van Everyman]