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2018 Patriots Defense

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by BaseballJones, Apr 30, 2018.

  1. Harry Hooper

    Harry Hooper Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    24,744
    Thanks, that was it.
     
  2. Spelunker

    Spelunker Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Howie Long did karate as well. Or, claimed to in saying he didn't do steroids.
     
  3. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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  4. BigJimEd

    BigJimEd Member SoSH Member

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    2,517
    I, for one, am looking forward to seeing this defense under Flores.
     
  5. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    Anyone else find it weird that they're burying Wise on the depth chart? Ten snaps yesterday, only 16 vs KC. He was behind Keionta Davis to start the year and played fewer snaps than Derek Rivers yesterday. Despite this he is leading the team with 3.5 sacks. He banged up? Run defense / discipline lacking? I thought he would take a leap forward in year two but instead that 2017 draft class is looking like a total whiff.
     
  6. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    He was on the injury report this week so that may be why he didn't get the snaps the last couple of weeks.
     
  7. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    12 games into the season, so not a small sample size. New England's pass defense ranks:

    - 3rd in the NFL in completion percentage (61.7%)
    - 3rd in the NFL in interceptions (14)
    - 5th in the NFL in yards per attempt (6.8)
    - 6th in the NFL in passer rating against (85.7)

    They haven't played just the crummy teams either. Here's how they've done against the best passing offenses on their schedule:

    vs. Green Bay
    - Rodgers: 5th in NFL in passing yards, 21:1 TD:INT ratio
    - GB: 6th ranked passing offense overall
    - vs. NE: 24-43 (55.8%), 259 yds, 2 td, 0 int, 89.2 rating; GB scored 17 points

    vs. Kansas City
    - Mahomes: 2nd in NFL in passing yards, 2nd in YPA, 41 TD, 10 INT, 2nd in passer rating
    - KC: 3rd ranked passing offense overall
    - vs. NE: 23-36 (63.9%), 352 yds, 4 td, 2 int, 110.0 rating; KC scored 40 points

    vs. Minnesota
    - Cousins: 6th in NFL in passing yards, 23:9 TD:INT ratio (with the best WR duo in the league)
    - Min: 7th ranked passing offense overall
    - vs. NE: 32-44 (72.7%), 201 yds, 1 td, 2 int, 70.4 rating; Min scored 10 points

    vs. Indianapolis
    - Luck: 8th in NFL in passing yards, 32 td, 12 int
    - Ind: 10th ranked passing offense overall
    - vs. NE: 38-59 (64.4%), 365 yds, 3 td, 2 int, 84.4 rating; Ind scored 24 points

    So against four of the top 8 passers in the NFL, the Pats' pass defense has allowed the following stat line:

    117-182 (64.3%), 1,177 yds (6.46 ypa), 10 td, 7 int, 84.9 rating, 91 points allowed (22.8 per game)

    That's pretty damned good in today's NFL.
     
  8. Kenny F'ing Powers

    Kenny F'ing Powers posts 18% useful shit

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    10,477
    I want to fuck you, and then fuck your post.

    And then either you or your post again for seconds.
     
  9. Saints Rest

    Saints Rest Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    6,937
    More anecdotally:
    • The D of late seems more effective in bringing pressure. In part due to scheme, but also some nice individual efforts.
    • JMcC has proved the pre-season doubters wrong as he has been pretty great all season. I don't think anyone is pining for M Butler or even Eric Rowe.
    • JC Jackson: Was yesterday his coming out party or just a one-day wonder?
    • Though Shelton has been pretty much a bust, Clayborn has flashed at times and, in my mind, been a net positive as a pickup.
    • DHT may be finally getting back to being a (positive) difference maker after a very rough start to the season.
     
  10. ( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

    ( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) T&A SoSH Member

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    Does anyone have any insight into John Simon?
    He has been here seven games, credited with a sack, 2 QB hits and 1 TFL from pro-football reference. From watching the games that sounds right, he hasn't 'shown' up in meaningful ways or made splashy plays. But his usage spiked over the past two games
    42% of def snaps vs the Jets
    37% of def snaps vs the Vikings
    Previously he was bouncing between 6% to 20% of defensive snaps (with his first game as a Pat against Miami showing a higher usage at 40%)

    Does anyone here that dissects the film or have a better eye for looking at what players are doing away from the ball have a read on him?
    He isn't putting up counting stats like sacks or pressures, but is this a situation where Simon is playing a role that now allows other players to be used in a way that makes them more successful? For example, has Simon been good at something like setting the edge, allowing Flowers to move inside as a pass rusher more often? Or something along those lines.

    The defense is playing well and there are probably many factors for that, I'm just curious if Simon is going to end up being one of those sneaky acquisitions of a role player that makes the team better or if he is just a just a warm body out there.
     
  11. bakahump

    bakahump Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I had watched Simon and thought he "flashed" in an early game this year.

    He is certainly doesnt/hasnt flashed alot. But to my lying eyes he had a couple of "nice play!" moments.
    I am hoping that improves more then say Roberts has ....
     
  12. nothumb

    nothumb Member SoSH Member

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    This is indeed good, and also a good post, but probably important to note that all four of those were home games, right?
     
  13. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    Yep, I'm sure that's well worth noting.
     
  14. Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt

    Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt lurker

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    Let's hope John Simon is the Steve Pearce of the 2018 Patriots.
     
  15. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Saw a tweet that the Pats secondary is the most efficient tackling unit in the league. Unsure how the whole defense stacks up. They had a great day on Sunday.
     
  16. kenneycb

    kenneycb Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play SoSH Member

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    What does that mean? Is it some metric around missed tackles?
     
  17. BusRaker

    BusRaker lurker

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    I would use yards after first contact ... but I can't speak to any tweet
     
  18. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    DBs giving up 4.11 YAC best in the league. Ravens have the #1 D in the league they are at 4.97
     
  19. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Pats are 17th in DVOA on D (0.2%). Last year by comparison they were 31st (10.9%).

    Flip side is they are worse on offense: 27.3% / 1st last year vs. 14.8% / 6th this year. But with Gronk, Edelman, Gordon, Rex, and Sony all playing, I think they are clearly better than that.
     
  20. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

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    This post came to mind as I watched 5 minutes of the JAGS almost literally missing on 100% of their tackles.
     
  21. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    DMC said that Malcom Brown and Larry Guy are under appreciated teammates. So we have Phil Dorsett in accounting and Larry Guy in sales.
     
  22. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Please lock this thread.
     
  23. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Why is the D competent and competitive at home but a total sieve on the road? They did enough against Rodgers, Luck, Cousins, and even Mahomes by virtue of turnovers to be in a position to win. But my god they suck on the road. The run D has been awful everywhere but they turn below average passing QBs into prime Brady on the road.
     
  24. Smiling Joe Hesketh

    Smiling Joe Hesketh All Hail King Boron Dope

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    Reiss said their struggles against the run in the first half yesterday had to do with the lighter package they had out there on the DL. They switched to a heavier package in the second half, but nothing seemed to really help.

    They play like shit in Miami, every single damn year. It's fucking infuriating.
     
  25. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    It’s mind boggling. But they still should have won yesterday. I don’t even know why Gronkowski was on the field, it wasn’t a jump ball scenario. That loss was a disgrace.
     
  26. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    A WEEI caller just mentioned that maybe the Patriots have just *one* "the other team needs a crazy play to win" unit they put out there, and that this unit has probably practiced against hook and ladder plays all season long. There's a reason why that's a one in a hundred kind of play. Even with Gronk out there I bet Miami doesn't convert that even one time in a hundred.

    That being said, maybe it's a lesson to be learned. I think Gronk has lost enough athleticism that maybe he shouldn't be on the "the other team needs a crazy play to win" unit anymore. Melifonwu is 6'4" and has like a 40" vertical and I'm sure can get higher than Gronk can at this point. Plus, he's much much faster. And he's actually a defensive player that is used to tackling guys. That plus...my god don't rush four guys in that situation. On a hook and ladder play the QB isn't going to hold the ball long enough anyway.

    Just frustrating.

    The whole annual Miami crapfest thing is getting really really old too. No clue how to fix it. Each year it's just a new and different way to lose. Brady actually had one of his best games ever in Miami. They blocked two punts. Gronk and Gordon and Edelman were all fantastic. Yet they still lost. It's truly a house of horrors and there's no real explanation for it.
     
  27. Smiling Joe Hesketh

    Smiling Joe Hesketh All Hail King Boron Dope

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    Gronk said after the game they've practiced the Hail Mary defense this season. No mention of the hook and lateral. Maybe another coaching mistake.

    Let's say it's OK to have Gronk out there. The guy they took off for Gronk was Devin McCourty, perhaps their fastest player on D. That's a terrible decision.

    I'll say it again, there are zero positives to be taken away from yesterday. I don't wanna hear, oh they blocked two punts or Brady played well. They fucked up their season. It was a total disaster and will probably be the reason the Pats don't reach another SB, because they've got no shot at HFA now. And they kicked it away in the most idiotic way possible.
     
  28. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    The Chiefs may make HFA a moot point anyways. Where this could potentially loom large is the 2 seed. If Houston wins out and we lose to Pit, which is quite possible since we suck on the road, then this play will have literally cost a team that sucks on the road a much-needed bye. That would be tough to stomach.
     
  29. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    17,371
    I think it’s best to come to terms with the realization we won’t be playing in February this year. We have a cap of the AFCCG.
     
  30. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    Says who? KC without Hunt has won their last two, but neither was easy. They could have lost to Oakland and honestly should have lost yesterday at home to Baltimore. KC could get the #1 seed and lose to the #4/#5 seed in the divisional round. That's a totally legit possibility. If the Pats get the #2 seed - which is also still quite likely (though a lot less likely after the Miami debacle) - they'd suddenly be playing the AFCCG at home in that scenario.

    They took a bit hit yesterday but it's not at all a crazy thought that they could still make the Super Bowl.
     
  31. AB in DC

    AB in DC OG Football Writing Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    I would really like to see the all-22 tape on this play, because I have no idea what the defense was supposed to be doing. They had four pass rushers (including Van Noy who seemed to be on a spy/delayed rush). Both #21 and #30 never entered camera range until it was too late -- were they both on the left side of the field, even though four of the five eligible receivers were on the right side?. #24 was just hanging out in the middle as if it were some kind of zone defense, even though there was no one there. And of course Gronkowski is basically useless in this situation. So that leaves 4 Miami playmakers on the right vs. only 3 Patriot DBs!?!
     
  32. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    No it’s not crazy, but it’s also not likely. They’d need a lot of things to fall their way and I don’t understand how that’s even up for debate. And that’s not even a knee jerk reaction to yesterday, they’re a flawed team. Doesn’t mean they can’t make it there but this season makes me think of the one (I forget the year) when they got whooped in NO and BB told TB that he couldn’t get them to play like he wanted. Something is off.
     
  33. steveluck7

    steveluck7 Member SoSH Member

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    2,780
    Van Noy wasn't really on a delayed rush, he broke right off and "covered" Drake in the flat / up the field. ALL 22 will show more but there's a wider shot of the play that shows KVN going towards / with Drake.

    edit: and Van Noy is seen diving at Drakes heels right when he gets the ball
     
  34. Smiling Joe Hesketh

    Smiling Joe Hesketh All Hail King Boron Dope

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    They're playing lanes. Gilmore was in a lane away from the play so that if the lateral goes that way it's defended.

    Rushing 4 was bizarre. Having Gronk out there for a Hail Mary when a gimpy Tannehill can't throw the ball 75 yards into the end zone was stupid. They should have known it would be a lateral play just based on that, and Gronk is useless for lateral plays.

    A total system failure.
     
  35. AB in DC

    AB in DC OG Football Writing Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    No, Van Noy started on the left side of the play (Drake was on the right), then looped around to rush Tannehill -- Drake had already started running downfield before Van Noy turned around to follow him. Credit to Van Noy that he got close enough to try and make the play, but he was a good two or three steps behind.
     
  36. AB in DC

    AB in DC OG Football Writing Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    That's my point -- they seemed to have three people defending a possible lateral (Gilmore, Harmon, JMac) and only three DBs (plus Gronk) involved in the action. That allowed the three WRs to block the three DBs, leaving Gronk one-on-one against Drake, which is a massive mismatch. Is that really how they drew it up??
     
  37. Smiling Joe Hesketh

    Smiling Joe Hesketh All Hail King Boron Dope

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    I have no idea. We sure as hell won't be getting a Belichick Breakdown on this one.
     
  38. Dr. Gonzo

    Dr. Gonzo Member SoSH Member

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    What has been disappointing for me is just how awful the D has been against the run. I really thought the Shelton acquisition was a wise one as they were in the bottom three in YPC allowed last year. This year they are tied for 27th in YPC allowed and Shelton has now been inactive for two consecutive games as a healthy scratch. Is he just not a fit in what the Pats are doing right now? With the Simon acquisition and others coming on it seems that they can generate pressure from the D line if needed but the ability to stop the run just hamstrings the defense in dealing with too many third and shorts.

    Positive takeaways for me yesterday were Hightower and Adam Butler. The delayed blitz from Hightower was really effective yesterday and Butler had a nice day too.
     
  39. 54thMA

    54thMA Member SoSH Member

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    I don't want to hear anymore nonsense about how the Patriots play the march of the tomato cans every year regarding their division; in 2008 the Dolphins and that Harry High School wildcat offense cost them a playoff berth, the Jets knocked a 14-2 team out of the playoffs in 2010, in 2015 Jets and Dolphins road losses cost them the #1 seed and they lost the AFCCG in Denver that year, now this fucking shitshow yesterday which in all likelihood cost them the #1 seed and maybe the #2 seed as they have zero margin for error now.

    The only thing that will make me feel better about yesterday is the Chefs winning out and the Patriots beating Pittsburg, the Jets and Bills and getting the #2 seed, ie, that pathetic loss yesterday won't matter in the end.

    The Patriots as a franchise lost 18 strait games in Miami from the late 1960's till the mid 1980's, then things changed in the 1986 AFCCG and for several years they'd be ok down there, now they are back to playing like shit down there during the Brady era, I wish someone could come up with a reason why, it's infuriating, especially considering how mediocre the Dolphins have been during that time.

    Just maddening.

    Several friends of mine and I tried to plan a weekend down in Miami around this game, thank Christ those plans fell through, I wouldn't have wanted to be anywhere near that stadium yesterday surrounded by Dolphins fans after a loss like that.
     
  40. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    Shelton was losing playing time before he was deactivated. He played 9 snaps @ NYJ and 10 snaps two weeks earlier. I think they just decided he's not good. Giving up a third for him looks like a pretty awful trade at this point.

    The Patriots have had worse defenses than this year's incarnation - heck, I sometimes think last year's group was worse - but I don't think they've ever had a D with so little identity. One week they rush well, one week they don't; one week they contain, tackle, and play disciplined, the next they look like idiots. They generate turnovers, then they don't; they bend-but-don't-break, then they give up huge plays the next week. They stop the run one week, get gashed the next. I don't understand it. I don't understand why they look so unprepared for road games. I don't know what they think this defense is or what it is trying to be. I think they have flashed in every area in some game or at some point but they have zero consistency. They held the Vikings to their season-low in yards and nearly points, then they give up Miami's season-high in points the next week. Very, very weird team.
     
  41. eddiew112

    eddiew112 Member SoSH Member

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    They are very clearly better than last year, if only because they have been healthier. Last year they were relying on Eric Lee, Ricky Jean Francois, Marquis Flowers, and James Harrison.
     
  42. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

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    How soon we forget........
    [​IMG]
     
  43. j44thor

    j44thor Member SoSH Member

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    I think James Harrison could still help this team.
    This defense best games sadly had a lot more to do with terrible offenses with name recognition (GB/MIN) than the defense actually playing well.
    MIN in particular is so vanilla on offense.

    This week is going to be interesting. I assume Gillmore gets Juju and they attempt to bracket Brown. Not sure either will be slowed down.
     
  44. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    The Steeler running game has taken a huge hit. I'm not sure the Patriots will play much of anything besides some sort of nickel. I bet Roethlisberger has 300 yards and at least two scores, but I suspect the Patriots hold them to less than 28 points. And I think the Pats will score more than that. 38-27 Patriots.

    The D will finish the season with the Jets and Bills at home, so maybe they can gain some confidence moving into the playoffs.
     
  45. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    Are we sure Danny Shelton is better than Ricky-Jean Francois? Are we sure Elandon Roberts is better than Marquis Flowers? Are we sure the mystery twins Keionta Davis and Derek Rivers are better than Harrison and Lee?

    That would be some feat. Road performances by Pats D this year:
    @ JAX (30th in scoring O): 31 points
    @ DET (25th): 26 points
    @ CHI (7th): 31
    @ BUF (31th): 6
    @ TEN (27th): 34
    @ NYJ (26th): 13
    @ MIA (22nd): 34
    @ PIT (4th): ??

    Keeping them under 30 would be minor miracle. Maybe a major miracle.
     
  46. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Sssh. The defense is not THAT bad; it was fine having Gronk out there on defense — cuz BB says he was worried about a tip play.

    We’re back to normal. We like normal.
     
  47. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Pass D ranks:
    3rd in completion % at 61.4% (Baltimore #1 at 58.7%)
    6th in YPA at 7.0 (Baltimore #1 at 6.1)
    7th in passer rating at 86.0 (Chicago #1 at 72.5)

    Run D ranks 29th in YPC. Interestingly, the 4 worst run defenses in terms of YPC are going to the playoffs (in order from worst, Seattle, Rams, KC, and the Pats). It really is a passing league.
     
  48. Dr. Gonzo

    Dr. Gonzo Member SoSH Member

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    Was the Shelton for Clayborn swap yesterday more for the opponent or something we see the rest of the way? The run D could not have been worse the last few weeks and hoping Shelton can at least be an upgrade over Adam Butler on early downs. While Butler gives them a pass rush from the interior he is being pushed downfield on runs.
     
  49. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin SoSH Member

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    Shelton and more snaps for Wise is a significant upgrade over 94, who competes with Elandon Roberts for biggest waste of space on the roster. I am hopeful 94 is cut before the playoffs, as he is worthless at setting the edge/contain and usually rushes 10 yards past the QB on rushes, which also contributes to his worthlessness in prior said department. Free 94 - from the roster. 94 for waivers.
     
  50. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Kamalu looked like he helped a lot against the run. He flashed on his TFL in the first half
     

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