2015 Broncos-Peyton's Retirement Party Sunday 1/24/16 3PM ET

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jablo1312

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I'd take Malik Jackson over Demarcus Ware for the rest of the season if I had to pick between the two of them. Jackson has been great, and will most likely get a contract along the lines 5 years-$38 million this off-season. Ware is old, he broke down last season after his hot start in the first half, and I wouldn't be surprised if he does so again this year (and he's already banged up). I don't think losing Ware from the defense is a huge loss for Denver to be honest, especially since they have Shane Ray waiting to replace him.

I'd also be surprised if Von doesn't get the tag, and the team doesn't eventually hammer out a mammoth extension that surpasses (barely) Justin Houston's contract. $8 million a year for Wolfe seems a bit steep, but he has been playing well so we'll see. Denver is going to have a ton of cap room, and will have a number of large contracts to sign. They had a good 2012 draft (Wolfe, Osweiler, Hillman, Trevathan, Jackson) but all of those guys are in line for above average pay days except for Hillman. It will be interesting to see if they retain both/either of Vernon Davis and Evan Mathis- I'd expect Davis to start contributing more as the Broncos transition to a mostly 2 TE offense, so he could be in line for more money.

What are the odds that they work to extend Brock long-term prior to the end of the season? It gives them the freedom to tag Miller this off season. It's obviously risky because he's so unproven but if, at most, they'll have 7 games plus any playoff games worth of a sample size on him, how much more risky is it to lock him up this month?
I don't think that's risky for the Broncos, and I doubt Osweiler (and more importantly his agents) would go for it. Brock is going to want his money, so he might be willing to take a fairly friendly deal, but unless he totally craps the bed he will be able to get more after the season. He hasn't shown any indication that he will totally suck yet (still a ton of football to play, as teams get more tape on him as well), and his agents will want the upside of potential market competition for his services.

Elway has shown himself to be a competent GM thus far, and has shown a willingness to extend players in-season. If he is set on Brock as the QB of the future, Elway might try to get a deal done before the playoffs to get a good price on Osweiler. A complicating factor here is Manning. The team has paid a ton of lip service to "no decision have been made concerning the quarterback position" and has gone out of there way to try and avoid embarrassing Manning. Would he see a contract extension to Brock as a slap in the face? Would Elway think it would come across that way? And would he let them impede his efforts to sign Osweiler? My guess is no, but we'll see.
 

steveluck7

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I thought of the Manning factor as well but even a highly delusional Peyton cant imagine he's in Denver's plans beyond next season, right?
the only reason I could see Brock leaning towards a contract prior to the end of this season is because he was stapled to the bench for 3 + years. He might relish the vote of confidence as the QB of the present as much as the guaranteed money.
 

j-man

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The issue with aware is health, not age. Denver is going to need to determine whether or not they think he can remain on the field enough to justify the cap hit. A lot will be learned on that front over the remainder of this season. The other thing they'll think about is how well they think Shane Ray and Shaquille Barrett can fill in for Ware and replicate his performance. There are a few factors at play.

On the subject of Miller's tag... I read somewhere that the LBer tag amount is about $13M. J-man has it listed above that in his calculation so Denver might have more $ to play with than he thought.
wow 13 mil that wouild be a break i through assume Von will want Justin Houston money
 

j-man

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What are the odds that they work to extend Brock long-term prior to the end of the season? It gives them the freedom to tag Miller this off season. It's obviously risky because he's so unproven but if, at most, they'll have 7 games plus any playoff games worth of a sample size on him, how much more risky is it to lock him up this month?
i thank denver has only 3 mil in cap room this year
 

j-man

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I'd take Malik Jackson over Demarcus Ware for the rest of the season if I had to pick between the two of them. Jackson has been great, and will most likely get a contract along the lines 5 years-$38 million this off-season. Ware is old, he broke down last season after his hot start in the first half, and I wouldn't be surprised if he does so again this year (and he's already banged up). I don't think losing Ware from the defense is a huge loss for Denver to be honest, especially since they have Shane Ray waiting to replace him.

I'd also be surprised if Von doesn't get the tag, and the team doesn't eventually hammer out a mammoth extension that surpasses (barely) Justin Houston's contract. $8 million a year for Wolfe seems a bit steep, but he has been playing well so we'll see. Denver is going to have a ton of cap room, and will have a number of large contracts to sign. They had a good 2012 draft (Wolfe, Osweiler, Hillman, Trevathan, Jackson) but all of those guys are in line for above average pay days except for Hillman. It will be interesting to see if they retain both/either of Vernon Davis and Evan Mathis- I'd expect Davis to start contributing more as the Broncos transition to a mostly 2 TE offense, so he could be in line for more money.



I don't think that's risky for the Broncos, and I doubt Osweiler (and more importantly his agents) would go for it. Brock is going to want his money, so he might be willing to take a fairly friendly deal, but unless he totally craps the bed he will be able to get more after the season. He hasn't shown any indication that he will totally suck yet (still a ton of football to play, as teams get more tape on him as well), and his agents will want the upside of potential market competition for his services.

Elway has shown himself to be a competent GM thus far, and has shown a willingness to extend players in-season. If he is set on Brock as the QB of the future, Elway might try to get a deal done before the playoffs to get a good price on Osweiler. A complicating factor here is Manning. The team has paid a ton of lip service to "no decision have been made concerning the quarterback position" and has gone out of there way to try and avoid embarrassing Manning. Would he see a contract extension to Brock as a slap in the face? Would Elway think it would come across that way? And would he let them impede his efforts to sign Osweiler? My guess is no, but we'll see.

Mathis will not be back he said he only came to denver to play with manning Davis will plob cost too much as denver has jeff heuerman as a 3rd round pick 15 that tore his acl in mini camp better blocker could be a garrett garham type danny t will not be back as well as todd davis can take his spot was really good in the preseason
 

jablo1312

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Mathis will not be back he said he only came to denver to play with manning Davis will plob cost too much as denver has jeff heuerman as a 3rd round pick 15 that tore his acl in mini camp better blocker could be a garrett garham type danny t will not be back as well as todd davis can take his spot was really good in the preseason
Yea, there are definitely better places to spend money than on aging guards, over the hill tight ends, and middle linebackers that are any level below Kuechly/Wagner/Thomas Davis/
 

j-man

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denver signed S s keo he was in hou in like 2012

Denver gets ware back plob more J Thompson this week i think bruton and ward will be out hilliman souild play denver might try and rest cj for pitt
 

soxfan121

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denver signed S s keo he was in hou in like 2012
You buried the lede: Denver signed Keo after he tweeted @sonofbum (Wade Phillips twitter account) saying he was in shape and remembered the playbook.

Since that happened, almost every NFL hopeful free agent has been sending Phillips tweets asking for a job.
 

koufax32

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NBC pregame just said that before today, Denver had lost only 1 fumble this season. That's beyond Eli lucky. Looking forward to regression to 50% the rest of the year.
 

86spike

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QB controversy on!
I think you may be right. If Manning says his foot doesn't hurt I suspect Kubiak is likely to put him back in next week against a leaky Pitt defense. We'll see.

That said, Brock's numbers were hurt badly by a bunch of shitacular dropped passes on good throws. Thomas and Davis both boned him in that way. On top of that, the Denver O-Line had its worst game in a season of crappy games. Michael Schofield was abused by Khalil Mack to the point where I can't believe he wasn't benched. Brock had zero time to throw and definitely looked very green at times, but in a big picture sense I don't have a lot to criticize him for in this game.

The offense looked brutal without CJ Anderson. The defense did it's job other than the one long TD drive to open the second half. Special Teams choked (Sander's muffed punt was the margin of victory, McManus hit the post on a 49 harder).

Awful loss given the Cinci loss... but once again I find myself reminded that Denver, as I've felt all year, is not a true SB threat.
 

86spike

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Dungy thinks they can't go deep in the playoffs without Manning. Someone should Make sure he's still on his meds.
Dungy, of course, said the opposite the day Manning got benched against KC.

As mentioned above,a I think Manning might get the start next week. If Kubiak thinks that's the right. I've, I'll trust him. What I will hope for, though, is that Manning gets a short leash wrt turning over the ball. If he throws a pick or two and is looking like he did earlier this year, I want them to,go right back to Brock.
 

Gunfighter 09

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From the opposing fan perspective, I think Osweiller is much better than Manning.

I think Del Rio's knowledge of personnel in Denver was probably pretty helpful to the Raiders this year, they didn't allow an offensive touchdown to Denver in two games this year. Coupled with an all time great game from Khalil Mack, this was probably not the game to base the quarterback decision on.
 

Stitch01

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Has yoyoing QBs like that ever worked? Particularly with a guy of Mannings stature? If they go back to Manning, they're going back to Manning to sink or swim barring injury
 

j-man

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congts gunfighter if manning starts the reat of the year denver has a 2008 eric collapse 11-5 and out but that said denver will get the 2 seed will beat ciny and SD remember no sanders muff denver wins 12-9

will denver win the AFC no but pats fans need to be big broncos fans because if denver wins next sunday if will knock NE biggest Super bowl 50 theat out of the playoffs and then all u have to worry about is a KC team that i have douts that can win the big game

a denver team that is great on Def but will not score enough to keep up with ne and ditto for the jets

my q is

will NE play in SB 50 A 18-0 Car team or a 15-3 Zona or SB rematch 14-5 Sea
 

j-man

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From the opposing fan perspective, I think Osweiller is much better than Manning.

I think Del Rio's knowledge of personnel in Denver was probably pretty helpful to the Raiders this year, they didn't allow an offensive touchdown to Denver in two games this year. Coupled with an all time great game from Khalil Mack, this was probably not the game to base the quarterback decision on.
Oz is much better than manning what killed denver today was awful RT no running game and in the first haif not finesh u off instead of 12-0 20-0
 

j-man

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I think you may be right. If Manning says his foot doesn't hurt I suspect Kubiak is likely to put him back in next week against a leaky Pitt defense. We'll see.

That said, Brock's numbers were hurt badly by a bunch of shitacular dropped passes on good throws. Thomas and Davis both boned him in that way. On top of that, the Denver O-Line had its worst game in a season of crappy games. Michael Schofield was abused by Khalil Mack to the point where I can't believe he wasn't benched. Brock had zero time to throw and definitely looked very green at times, but in a big picture sense I don't have a lot to criticize him for in this game.

The offense looked brutal without CJ Anderson. The defense did it's job other than the one long TD drive to open the second half. Special Teams choked (Sander's muffed punt was the margin of victory, McManus hit the post on a 49 harder).

Awful loss given the Cinci loss... but once again I find myself reminded that Denver, as I've felt all year, is not a true SB threat.
without daltion if denver wins next week we are still 2nd in the afc
 

86spike

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From the opposing fan perspective, I think Osweiller is much better than Manning.

I think Del Rio's knowledge of personnel in Denver was probably pretty helpful to the Raiders this year, they didn't allow an offensive touchdown to Denver in two games this year. Coupled with an all time great game from Khalil Mack, this was probably not the game to base the quarterback decision on.
Huge game from Mack. I am at a total loss as to why Kubiak didn't start putting a TE over there to help.
 

86spike

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congts gunfighter if manning starts the reat of the year denver has a 2008 eric collapse 11-5 and out but that said denver will get the 2 seed will beat ciny and SD remember no sanders muff denver wins 12-9

will denver win the AFC no but pats fans need to be big broncos fans because if denver wins next sunday if will knock NE biggest Super bowl 50 theat out of the playoffs and then all u have to worry about is a KC team that i have douts that can win the big game

a denver team that is great on Def but will not score enough to keep up with ne and ditto for the jets

my q is

will NE play in SB 50 A 18-0 Car team or a 15-3 Zona or SB rematch 14-5 Sea
I definitely would rather just start Brock the rest of the way, but I just have this feeling that Manning is getting another shot. Hope I'm either wrong or Manning makes me eat my words.
 

Rook05

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Honestly, I think Kubiak is the problem. His offensive scheme either works or it doesn't, only he can't seem to adjust to anything else when it's not working. Granted, some of those drops were awful, but shut down the run and the offense becomes very one dimensional.

Also, I found this quote to be very surprising:

"What's the dude's name?" said Harris, rolling his eyes, struggling to identify the street free agent playing in the absence of injured safeties T.J. Ward and David Bruton. "The new safety. He just didn't play the coverage right. He's a new guy and he didn't play the coverage right."

http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_29246791/kiszla-loss-raiders-could-slowly-tear-this-broncos-team-apart

Peyton has got to be loving this. One more chance to play the hero?
 

Rook05

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That's the same writer that called the Patriots soft.
You'll get no arguments from me about the Denver media, but I found it telling that their otherworldly D is starting to snipe. I love Harris, but why feed trolls like Kizla with a quote like that? Even Brock knew better than to call out Schofield.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I think Kubiak has to make a call on Manning or Osweiler this week and commit. If you go back to Manning, you can't be planning to give him the hook if he throws a couple picks. This is especially true because the Peyton offense and Osweiler offense are so different and if you're going to play Osweiler, he's going to need to be well prepared and drilled for that particular opponent. Basically, either go with Manning and practice the Peyton offense all the time and let Osweiler become a spectactor again or go with Oz and practice the Kubiak offense all week and spend extra time prepping Osweiler for the opponent.

Game time temperatures next Sunday night in Pittsburgh are projected to be 32 degrees - not bitter cold but pretty cold. Its definitely not the ideal situation to reintroduce Manning.

The Broncos may have really caught a substantial break with the Dalton thumb injury. Because if they lose in Pittsburgh next week and KC beats the Ravens and Browns the next couple weeks, then that game against the Bengals will not just be for the #2 seed but also for the top of the AFC West.
 

DJnVa

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So here's how Brock's numbers stack up after 4 starts. Pro-rating him out to 13 games, his numbers would rank (out of 34):

Completion percentage: 11th
TDs: 26th
YPA: 27th (slightly ahead of Manning: 6.81 to 6.77)
Passer rating: 25th

Is that enough to win in the postseason?
 

Trlicek's Whip

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Sorry I missed the attribution, but someone retweeted a Denver beat writer that reminded everyone that Manning hasn't practiced in just over one month and surmised we'd see Brock for that reason.

As bad as Manning was before Brock, how good is Rusty Bad Manning?
 

GeorgeCostanza

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I definitely would rather just start Brock the rest of the way, but I just have this feeling that Manning is getting another shot. Hope I'm either wrong or Manning makes me eat my words.
How strong is your feeling that Manning suits up again this year? Strong enough for a friendly wager for charity? I say no way. $50 to the CoYC if he does.
 

tims4wins

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Peyton is gonna practice tomorrow but Brock will start Sunday. They are definitely preparing for a switch back to Manning after they lose to Pittsburgh. If they somehow win - and Brock plays decently or well - then I have no clue what they will do
 

soxfan121

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Peyton is gonna practice tomorrow but Brock will start Sunday. They are definitely preparing for a switch back to Manning after they lose to Pittsburgh. If they somehow win - and Brock plays decently or well - then I have no clue what they will do
They're gonna bring back Manning, win or lose. Obviously easier if it's a loss, but there is no chance the Broncos aren't going to give the future hall of famer one more game.
 

j-man

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if they do go back to Manning the Ciny game turns from 75 % win to 35 %

to me if denver wants to win the AFC they must get to 12-4 and hope Pitt/NYJ knock NE Out in the div round

that said even if denver gets to SB 50 i dont think they beat Car Zona or Sea with Sea 50/50

its looking like manning career will end like marino unless tony corette refs every 1 of denver playoff games
 

j-man

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my power poll

1 Car
2 NE
3 ZONA
4SEA
5 PITT
6 DEN
7 CINY
8 KC
9 GB
10 NYJ
11 MINN
12 WASH
13 TB
14 NYG
15 Philly
16 Oak
17 indy
18 Hou
19 buff
20 no
21 chi
22 Mia
23 ATL
24 Jax
25 STL
26 Det
27 Balt
28 Cle
29 sf
30 dal
31 sd
32 tenn
 

86spike

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The Bengals game would, IMO, be the worst time to slide Manning back in.

Without Dalton, their offense may (should? Could?) struggle against the Denver D. However, Cinci's D is tough so I don't expect Denver to be able to score much. The game looks like a low scoring and very close match up.

If Manning starts and throws more picks, he will be handing the weakened Cinci offense just what they need to overcome the loss of Dalton. Denver should be looking at that game as a chance to smother Cinci's offense and hope their D can win them the game. Manning turning it over would flush the one big advantage they seem to have (well, I suppose the Bengals' allergy to winning after 8 PM is a second advantage as well).

The Cinci game is the most "must win" game left. They shouldn't risk blowing it with a rusty and substandard Manning.

If they can win, let him start against SD in week 17 (especially if KC has lost once before then and cannot get the division).
 

lambeau

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KC may well win out: Ravens, Browns, Raiders.
If so, the Broncos must beat the Steelers or Bengals, or they go on the road as a wildcard.
 

Jnai

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KC may well win out: Ravens, Browns, Raiders.
If so, the Broncos must beat the Steelers or Bengals, or they go on the road as a wildcard.
If the Broncos drop 2 in a row though, they're almost certainly going back to Manning.

I don't know why, that kind of scares me. He looked totally done earlier in the season, but maybe he really was hurt, and maybe with this extended vacation he comes back and is really sharp and can play 4 solid weeks of football. Long shot, I know, but I think his upside over Brock is massive.
 

mwonow

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If the Broncos drop 2 in a row though, they're almost certainly going back to Manning.

I don't know why, that kind of scares me. He looked totally done earlier in the season, but maybe he really was hurt, and maybe with this extended vacation he comes back and is really sharp and can play 4 solid weeks of football. Long shot, I know, but I think his upside over Brock is massive.
True, but the Broncos on the road are a much less scary proposition than the Broncos in Denver
 

snowmanny

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If the Broncos drop 2 in a row though, they're almost certainly going back to Manning.

I don't know why, that kind of scares me. He looked totally done earlier in the season, but maybe he really was hurt, and maybe with this extended vacation he comes back and is really sharp and can play 4 solid weeks of football. Long shot, I know, but I think his upside over Brock is massive.
Totally agree. Either they play Manning who a) fell off a cliff or b) was injured and still is or c) was injured but now is OK, or they play BO who is d) not bad. The Broncos are good enough to have a chance in any playoff game with "d," but the biggest upside is "c." Nevertheless, unless Manning proves in practices that he's improved I wouldn't go near him.
 

86spike

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Hey guys I fell asleep at halftime and had this crazy dream that Denver put up its third straight zero-score second half. What really happened?

Despite that awful second half, I do think Denver can eek out a win next week at home against AJ McCarron and the We Don't Win After Dark team from southern Ohio.

The fun won't last long in January, though. The OL disaster will continue to make the entire offense suck shit for long stretches and there are at least 4 teams likely in the playoffs that will take advantage of that.
 
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