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2015 Broncos-Peyton's Retirement Party Sunday 1/24/16 3PM ET

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by Dogman2, Feb 10, 2015.

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  1. Dogman2

    Dogman2 Yukon Cornelius Dope

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    13,550
    We have a thread on the guy that falls behind Brady on the all time list. We know about the coaching changes.
     
    This is for the entire team.
     
    http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/denver-broncos-wes-welker-possible-retirement-021015?adbsc=social_20150210_40291056&adbid=10153612565999552&adbpl=fb&adbpr=112638779551
     
     
     
    Wes considering walking away.  I hope he does as he has had 3 confirmed concussions with Denver and he had at least 4 with NE.  He is a FA but that affects the team.
     
  2. j-man

    j-man Member

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    as most of u know i am a broncos fan 
     
    here is my state of the team  
     
    QB I think manning will come back  but it could get ugly  with manning they are a 10-11 win team    without they are a 6 win team  B+ with manning C- without   and for the record  OZ can play  but needs 1-2 years of starts  to get good  think joe flacco with a little more speed    
     
    RB C J Anderson   could be a star   maybe a 1'800 yards  in kubiak system       M Ball is a bust but he could be a good backup  hilliman thoman are good role players  A-  
     
    WR/TE   too soon to  know who will be back  DT  will stay 1 way or another through the FA tag or a long term deal       but the colts playoff game  hurt his value slightly as V Davis shut him down    C Laiter will get a lot more time  at WR   as he was not 1 of manning boys and did not get the ball  as last year was a redshirt season  
    E Sanders was outstanding and will be the num 2 or wes replacement in the slot     welker is done and should retire      but dont be surprised if oakland or chicago offer a deal    Caldwell should be cut  as cutting him saves 1.3 mil  did next to nothing last year     but he is manning's boy    J Norwood showed some promise as a kr   in preseason   also E Royal  might be a fit to come back as he had his best pro season in 2008  in the kubiak system   
     
    TE every 1 of denver TE ex D Jones are FA'S  J Thomas is gone   some team like oakland Jax  cle  will overpay   J Tamme is just a guy  V Green can run block  and has underrated hands   50/50 he comes back    expect denver to sign TE O Danlels  kubiak drafted him and he went to balt last year   with kubiak     and expect denver to draft a te as well    
     
    OL Clady will be back  he was drafted for this system     in 2008 and was 2nd team all pro   Franklin will get paid much $$$ 50/50 denver keeps him   same with montgomery  as his great play last year means he might command 3-4 mil a season  $$  RG Vasquez had a down year last year but is much better at guard   RT needs to addressed expect denver to make a run at derek newton    he plays RT for houston  kubiak drafted him in houton    
     
     
    part 2   up next  
     
  3. Koufax

    Koufax Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I heard today that peyton has started working out and intends to come back for one more year.
     
  4. koufax32

    koufax32 He'll cry if he wants to... SoSH Member

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    J-Man, once again great breakdown of needs and expected moves based on reasonable assumptions. Everything you said makes a lot of sense. One very minor quibble is that there is no way JAX overlays for JT.
    What is their plan for the o line? Will there be a system change in run blocking that would necessitate different personnel or is it going to be a similar scheme with the hopes of finding a couple of new guys who don't suck?

    Edit: I can haz grammer
     
  5. j-man

    j-man Member

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    DE/DT  the hiring of bill kollar should light a fire under these guys   if knighton leaves expect  a 1st round nt   DC Wade phillips  likes small quick NT     DE D Wolfe should fit well in this system   Sly Williams should get 1 DE spot  is ave so far   M Jackson Q Smith might move to OLB   Marvin austin is just a guy  M Uritain is a FA    
     
    OLB Ware and miller will start here  Miller is a 15 sack a year guy  and should be asked to just rush the passer   Ware  fits better in a 3-4 could have 9-12 sacks  if used right 
     
    ILB  I Expect B Marshall to get a ilb spot   he was a bright spot last year   Danny t can he stay on the field  if he can will give denver more choices    N Irving was a goner but in the 3-4 could be very useful   if he come back   
     
    CB Denver has 3 very good man to man CB'S  Harris JR plays everyone except NE very well   Tailb  got beat in the playoff game but is a solid num 2 cb   ROBY was a great 1st round pick   showing much promise  K Webster might be moved  to FS   to replace R Moore  
     
    Saf  R Moore is gone either Webter or a guy like K Lewis will take his place    TJ Ward cannot cover TE'S  should be a in the box lb   great at run stop  rest of the guys are ST players led by David burton   
     
    K Barth was outstading from 50 yards and in   P Colqutt  is just ok  ST Coverage was awful   
     
  6. j-man

    j-man Member

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    the o-line plan is back to the ZBS  of 95-2008   more 1-cut strhen  bootlegs plays  and a hybrid of manning  colts shotgun stuff   if he comes back  
     
  7. soxfan121

    soxfan121 JAG Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Is this going to be an easy transition? Franklin and Vazquez seem like poor fits, though finding ZBS guards should be fairly easy. Newton at RT seems like a disaster; he's not a good enough pass blocker for a Peyton-led offense. It would make more sense to draft a T - Clady is not getting younger or healthier and RT is question mark that could be filled with an existing part or a FA...but a long term solution would be nice. 
     
  8. NortheasternPJ

    NortheasternPJ Member SoSH Member

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    Looks like the end may be near, hopefully Welker retires before his head is permanently scrambled
     
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/10/wes-welker-weighs-walking-away/
     
    All in all - 2 years 12 million. 122 Receptions, 1242 yards and 12 TD.
     
    His combined two years in Denver were worse than 3 of his best individual years in New England.
     
    Edit: Sorry didn't see this thread!
     
  9. j-man

    j-man Member

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    i am not in love with the off with peyton in it  but   it seems to fit oz well   clady was drafted for this off   so he should be fine   Franklin will plob want too much money 9-10 a year   Vazquez is much better at guard      i would not sign newton  but  all the good OT will be gone by the 28 Pick      i think maxx williams could be a good value at 28  
    also with the coaching change  S williams is not a good fit along with schofield     if we re-sign franklin i would move him to RT and put B Garland at LG   as garland has the size and speed to fit the zbs   
     
  10. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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  11. j-man

    j-man Member

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    the broncos and manning are talking about lowing his cap number from 21.5 mil  to a guess  15-16 mil   
     
     
    manning will be back   
     
    so will D Thomas   Fran tag   
     
    i do think denver will not keep both knighton and franklin    in fact i think its 90 % knighton goes to oakland     and 50/50 Franklin    
     
    denver should  have about 22 mil in cap room wwhen FA stars  right now they have 30 mil  fran DT takes 14 away  let say manning gives 4 mil back   we cut ramiez  and caldwell   we have 22.5 mil to play with  and needs at TE  C LG RT  DT ILB Wesbter right now our 4th cb is in like to be the FS     expect Denver to fill the TE C and RT holes in FA  round 1 ILB or DT  round 2 G  round 3  WR or 3-4 DE   
     
  12. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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  13. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    15,650
    I guess Elway developed a taste for duck l'orange
     
  14. Morgan's Magic Snowplow

    Morgan's Magic Snowplow Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    16,204
    Cap hit is still $17.5M, which is the same as the past two seasons.
     
  15. jsinger121

    jsinger121 @jsinger121 SoSH Member

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    He can still make up the 4 million in incentives. Wonder how hard they are to attain. This is a pretty fake pay cut if they incentives are easy to hit.
     
  16. Sox and Rocks

    Sox and Rocks Member SoSH Member

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    5,637
    Every little bit helps, so it's good for Denver that they were able to get Manning to do this (he could have, perhaps should have, told them to no), but $4 million won't go far in keeping Knighton, J Thomas, Franklin, Moore, Irvin, etc. while replacing the ones they don't re-sign and plugging their holes. 
     
  17. Sox and Rocks

    Sox and Rocks Member SoSH Member

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    5,637
    Yeah, but lower than it was scheduled to be.
     
    Really?  Where are you getting this info?
     
  18. jsinger121

    jsinger121 @jsinger121 SoSH Member

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    14,365
    Rappaport and LaConfora had it via Twitter.
     
  19. jsinger121

    jsinger121 @jsinger121 SoSH Member

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    Peyton's incentives are 2 million for winning the AFC championship and 2 million for winning the Super Bowl.
     
  20. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    So...unlikely
     
  21. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Does he give back money for losing in the Divisional Round?
     
  22. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    I think he just did.
     
  23. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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  24. singaporesoxfan

    singaporesoxfan Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    If the incentives are easy to hit (aka Likely To Be Earned incentives) they count towards the cap. The reason this deal saves the Broncos $4m of cap space is because Peyton getting to the Super Bowl and winning it is officially classified as Not Likely to Be Earned.
     
  25. singaporesoxfan

    singaporesoxfan Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I know it's really just based on previous season team performance, but there's something nice about the fact that Peyton Manning reaching the Super Bowl is officially designated as Not Likely. (By comparison, the Pats can't save cap space by offering Brady the same bonuses.)
     
  26. j-man

    j-man Member

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    1,335
    Denver wanted manning to take a larger pay cut but he said no   
     
    i would try to get DT  to a 5y 70 mil deal before FA  13 mil year 1 14 mil year 2    15 mil year 3  give him a opt out after 3 y  that way he can cash in again   
    the only other guy i would offer is Franklin  
    5y 40 mil   8 mil across the board  24 mil in bonus     
     
  27. 86spike

    86spike Currently enjoying "Arli$$" SoSH Member

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    Ha ha ha ha (sob)
     
  28. j-man

    j-man Member

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    if would not shock me if Denver misses the playoffs next year at 9-7 because most of our road games @ cle @ pitt @ chi   @ kc  could be cold weather road games in nov dec     and our home sch ne gb balt ciny minn is brual     
     
    the only way denver makes the playoffs   next year  is 2 or 3 of those road games are early sept oct games esp chi pitt
     
    our peak is 12 wins
    our bottom is 9 wins       
     
    only way manning makes the super bowl is  
    1 Revis leaves  NE  
    2 denver gets the 1 seed and the Bengals in the AFCGC   
     
    which is a slim chance   
     
  29. Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt

    Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt lurker

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    2,254
    I think this might be the greatest quote of the off-season and I don't think anything has a prayer of topping it. Bra-fucking-VO.
     
  30. Gunfighter 09

    Gunfighter 09 wants to be caribou ken Staff Member Dope SoSH Member

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    7,014
     
    A couple of breaks, (39 year old QB getting hurt or two time offender star DE getting the 1 year suspension) and  your bottom might be 4 or 5 wins. 
     
  31. BigJimEd

    BigJimEd Member SoSH Member

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    For cap purposes, incentives are based solely on the previous season. If the incentive was reached the previous year than it is LTBE (likely to be earned). If it wasn't then it is considered NLTBE (not likely).


    So in Brady's, or any Patriot, winning the Super Bowl would be considered a LTBE incentive.
     
  32. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Bruschi was funny this morning on SC. Basically said that Manning's give back was okay, but would have liked it more if Peyton had been more willing to give the Broncos more breathing room. "It's not like he needs to money at this point."
     
  33. jsinger121

    jsinger121 @jsinger121 SoSH Member

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    14,365
     
    Bruschi is right on par. He probably should have taken a larger paycut in order to put a better team around him.
     
  34. j-man

    j-man Member

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    u right on manning but we can patchwork a pass rush without V Miller      and other than oakland who will improve  i see SD and KC taken 1 or 2 steps back   KC has no cap room to sign anyone  and SD is Bad at OL and their back 7     
     
    btw good luck with del rio    2 major things against him   
    1  he plays too soft of D aga Elite QB   hopefully will Let norton run the D    
    2  Del Rio is miles better than any coach u had since gruden   but D Quinn K Norton jr T Austin  would had been so much better for u  in the long run   
     
    what i would do if i was mark davis let del rio get u to 500 Level   then hire someone from the ravens to GM  and T Austin  Lions DC as coach    
     
  35. j-man

    j-man Member

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    too bad i am not manning i wouild said look   elway  850k for the next 2 years but  i need OL help  so i need it in writeing that all  my 19 mil will go toward the o-line   or no deal   
     
  36. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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    But with Kubiak at the helm, he doesn't need an O-line. He just has to run around a lot.
     
  37. JimD

    JimD Member SoSH Member

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    6,604
    Manning should have agreed to play for the league minimum with a $15 million bonus if he avoids going one-and-done in the playoffs.
     
  38. PedroKsBambino

    PedroKsBambino Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I imagine Peyton and Brady both get pressure from NFLPA on this issue.   Peyton has always been a 'top dollar' guy and so I have no problem with the criticism of what looks like a smallish giveback here, but he also likely has some constraints.   
     
  39. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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    17,175
    What does that mean, tho? This isn't MLB. Does the NFLPA have any real leverage in these situations, much less with superstars like Manning and Brady to whom a different set of rules clearly applies?
     
  40. JohnnyK

    JohnnyK Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    1,700
    I don't know if they have leverage, but they definitely have an interest in keeping their wages up - as it kind of sets the market for other QBs and also affects the franchise tag number.
     
  41. Ed Hillel

    Ed Hillel Wants to be startin somethin SoSH Member

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    While I do understand this line of thought, we are talking about the quarterback position here, which is arguably the most important position of the 4 major sports. The good ones are going to get paid what they want within reason, regardless of if a few are willing to take hometown discounts, even the elite.
     
  42. j-man

    j-man Member

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    Franklin  to SD 
    J Thomas to Jax  
    Knington 99 % gone 
    R Moore 99 % gone   
     
  43. drleather2001

    drleather2001 given himself a skunk spot SoSH Member

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    Any word on Welker and Talib?
     
  44. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_27687216/kiszla-broncos-already-transition-post-manning
     
  45. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    That sounds like macho sportswriter crap.  They lost because their QB couldn't throw downfield and they abandoned the running game against a team that can't stop the run. 
     
  46. 86spike

    86spike Currently enjoying "Arli$$" SoSH Member

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    The Manning window is only open a crack at this point.  Sure, everything might break the right way and Denver might win a SB, but the odds of that happening are less now than they were in 2012, 13 or 14.  
     
    Julius Thomas is primarily gone because he cannot/will not block effectively.  Kubiak's offense needs his TEs to help pass protect much mores than Adam Gase's scheme over the last few years.  That, coupled with JT's injury issues sealed the deal for him in Denver.
     
    Virgil Green is an interesting case.  He is pretty athletic and excels at blocking.  He's never really been a receiving target, so no one knows is that's something he can do well.  Elway's stroke job about him is hot air until proven otherwise.  Owen Daniels is a fine veteran short term fill in who knows Kubiak's game.  This is an overall talent downgrade, but the scheme might make it less so.  
     
    JT's Redzone targets will go to Daniels, Sanders and maybe the RBs.  
     
    Shrug.
     
  47. j-man

    j-man Member

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    my 02 cents on denver moves   
     
    DL V Walker  will start or be a key backup can stop the run tailed off in KC but was good for Oak 
    Lg S Smith   this might work fits what denver wants     in their G just can he stay on the field      
    FS D Stewart  Whispers that B Roby might move to FS   but if he does not i expect stewart to start over burton     
    TE O Danels  was a steal here   u might want to target him in your fan draft  in the 8th 9 th rounds    
     
    whispers elway will take a qb early so in case oz leaves after next year we have someone to groom behind manning    i would be very happy if we got b hundley at 28  but if we draft grayson pretty bust city    
     
    draft needs 
    1 RT 
    2 ILB 
    3 QB  
    4 C 
    5 P 
    6 Nickel CB 
    7 Speed WR   
     
  48. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    May I ask why you like Hundley? He's fairly mobile, which works in Kubiak's system, but I didn't see anything from him at ucla that'd make me think he'll be more than an average pro.
     
  49. j-man

    j-man Member

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    Sure  Oz is a huge ? and hundley  has more potential than the ob from baylor  jim mora jr  was his coach  so he knows some pro sets    i wouild rather have a qb in 2016 but manning is 50/50 for 2016   and i think some team will offer Oz 5-7 mil a year at QB   CLE Philly STL   Zona i like the QB from Col ST  but he is a 3rd 4th round pick  and a low end starter top 15 20   
     
  50. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    16,221
    Can I ask why you don't use punctuation? Seems like you have something interesting to say but the lack of sentence structure combined with lack of punctuation makes it hard to figure out.
     
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